Author Topic: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?  (Read 1851 times)

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Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 07:01:57 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I hate how Kyrie is treating the younger players on this team.

He is becoming an impediment to their success.

Maybe it's necessary. I'm more disappointed in the coaching staff that they haven't been able to come up with a plan to restore order. Apart from Smart (and the regular bench players Ojeleye, Yabusele and Williams) all the young guys are partly to blame.

  • Jayson Tatum has been a ball stopper, has a questionable shot selection and overall has shown an attitude that he thinks that he's better than he actually is.
  • Jaylen Brown is very inconsistent and often seems uncertain about his role on the team. Neither do I see the defensive force from last year. Where is the fire?
  • Terry Rozier has been a major disappointment. It doesn't seem that he cares about the team, other than his own minutes and stats. He's a liability to the team with his current mindset.

No, no, no. You can't say this. We're only supposed to hurl venom at Kyrie. The young guys have to be encased in bubble wrap. It doesn't matter that Terry only cares and is engaged when he starts. Or that Jayson thinks he's Kobe now. I'm not saying anything else about Jaylen because people get protective of their binkie. We're not supposed to talk about that unless we can somehow connect it to Kyrie or Morris or the Monstars.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 07:05:49 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Not at all. It’s clear that they’ve bought into their own hype way too much, so someone trying to bring their egos down to earth is music to my ears. Brown and Rozier have flat out regressed since last season, and Tatum has become much worse in some areas while improving in others.

Too much soft treatment for them, which I think is simply the way guys like Stevens and Horford lead
The thing is that they are not just hurting the team by playing in such a manner, they are also  destroying their own value in the process.  If Rozier would just play solidly in his expected role he might actually sucker a team into giving him a very large contract offer this summer.

Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 08:38:05 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Speaking of needing experience ....................

If Kyrie isn't going off on someone from a postgame locker room, he is apologizing the next day for what he said the night before.

He wanted to be The Man and lead a team to a title. Not so easy, huh ?
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Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 09:20:44 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Speaking of needing experience ....................

If Kyrie isn't going off on someone from a postgame locker room, he is apologizing the next day for what he said the night before.

He wanted to be The Man and lead a team to a title. Not so easy, huh ?

No joke.

I gotta say, I have so much respect for kg's leadership and always talking about how he could do better at something or other, never deflected blame onto others when it got tough.

We could use that.

But with guys in contract years...

Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 09:31:38 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Speaking of needing experience ....................

If Kyrie isn't going off on someone from a postgame locker room, he is apologizing the next day for what he said the night before.

He wanted to be The Man and lead a team to a title. Not so easy, huh ?

No joke.

I gotta say, I have so much respect for kg's leadership and always talking about how he could do better at something or other, never deflected blame onto others when it got tough.

We could use that.

But with guys in contract years...

Didn't KG once punch his teammate, Wally Szczerbiak, in the face? Didn't he make Glen Davis cry?

Let's not rewrite history. KG became a leader later in his career. As did Paul Pierce.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 09:41:53 PM by RJ87 »
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 10:00:10 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Speaking of needing experience ....................

If Kyrie isn't going off on someone from a postgame locker room, he is apologizing the next day for what he said the night before.

He wanted to be The Man and lead a team to a title. Not so easy, huh ?

No joke.

I gotta say, I have so much respect for kg's leadership and always talking about how he could do better at something or other, never deflected blame onto others when it got tough.

We could use that.

But with guys in contract years...

Didn't KG once punch his teammate, Wally Szczerbiak, in the face? Didn't he make Glen Davis cry?

Let's not rewrite history. KG became a leader later in his career. As did Paul Pierce.

I remember KG yelling at POB as well.

For the large part, the 2008 team didn't have many issues to begin with, that's why there was no need to call them out. Its not like Kyrie is singling them out, Kyrie has been rather generic with it, which is the accepted norm, and includes himself in the criticism. What Wade and Butler did was different.

Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2019, 02:38:24 AM »

Offline ozgod

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In Kyrie's postgame comments last night, he talked about the team needing more "experience."

This might be the case. Maybe some of the young guys who made it to the conference finals last year and haven't had to experience much struggle at the NBA level are taking for granted just how hard it is most of the time.

But Hayward is still erratic. Horford hasn't been his best self this season. Kyrie is still, himself, figuring out how to be a leader and has never had to be a leader in a playoff situation.

Terry and Jaylen have had their struggles this year and Jayson has disappointed in some aspects of his development but I don't think harping on the youth is what's going to turn this team around. It has to be about everybody buying in and working together.

I remember this from Brown's interview with Jackie Mac on ESPN last month:

Quote
Despite the analytical scrutiny, the incessant trade rumors that have swirled around him, the "tough love" he has endured from teammates and the realization that his own lofty goals will have to be tempered for now, Brown says he will continue to fight for himself and his firm belief that he's an NBA starter.

"It's probably been the hardest thing I've had to deal with so far in my career," Brown says. "Just coming from a position where you had so much responsibility, and now that responsibility is lessened. Expectations have been raised, but your responsibility goes down, so it's hard to reach those expectations when you aren't being asked to do as much.

"It's been a challenge. It's going to continue to be a challenge. It's all about your mindset, so that's what I'm focusing on."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25502202/jaylen-brown-new-journey-why-important-boston-celtics-nba

These young guys are in somewhat of a unique position - they had breakout years last year, but (aside from Jayson) they are being rewarded with less minutes, less responsibility, and less shots, to accommodate a) 2 players (Morris and Smart) who were on the bench last season; and b) a player (Hayward) who is struggling to come back after an injury whose absence they adequately filled last season. If you look at their numbers from last season (regular and playoffs) and compare to this year's season to date you can see the drop offs are pretty stark.

Code: [Select]
Per Game
 
Season Name Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS/G
17-18-R Jayson Tatum 19 80 80 30.5 5.0 10.4 .475 1.3 3.0 .434 3.7 7.4 .492 .538 2.7 3.2 .826 0.6 4.4 5.0 1.6 1.0 0.7 1.4 2.1 13.9
17-18-P Jayson Tatum 19 19 19 35.9 6.5 13.7 .471 1.2 3.7 .324 5.3 10.0 .526 .515 4.3 5.1 .845 0.5 3.8 4.4 2.7 1.2 0.5 2.2 2.6 18.5
18-19-R Jayson Tatum 20 42 42 31.0 5.9 13.3 .445 1.7 4.7 .367 4.2 8.7 .486 .509 2.6 3.0 .858 1.0 5.3 6.3 1.7 1.1 0.7 1.5 2.2 16.2

17-18-R Jaylen Brown 21 70 70 30.7 5.3 11.5 .465 1.7 4.4 .395 3.6 7.1 .507 .540 2.1 3.3 .644 0.9 4.0 4.9 1.6 1.0 0.4 1.8 2.6 14.5
17-18-P Jaylen Brown 21 18 15 32.4 6.9 14.8 .466 2.4 6.2 .393 4.4 8.6 .519 .549 1.8 2.8 .640 0.9 3.9 4.8 1.4 0.8 0.6 1.3 3.2 18.0
18-19-R Jaylen Brown 22 37 21 26.1 4.6 10.3 .445 1.1 3.6 .303 3.5 6.8 .520 .497 1.8 2.7 .657 1.0 3.1 4.1 1.5 0.8 0.6 1.5 2.7 12.0

17-18-R Terry Rozier 23 80 16 25.9 4.0 10.0 .395 1.9 5.0 .381 2.0 5.0 .410 .491 1.4 1.9 .772 0.8 3.9 4.7 2.9 1.0 0.2 1.0 1.5 11.3
17-18-P Terry Rozier 23 19 19 36.6 5.7 14.0 .406 2.7 7.7 .347 3.0 6.3 .479 .502 2.4 2.9 .821 0.4 4.8 5.3 5.7 1.3 0.3 1.2 2.0 16.5
18-19-R Terry Rozier 24 42 4 22.6 3.1 8.1 .377 1.4 4.0 .349 1.7 4.1 .405 .463 1.0 1.3 .778 0.5 3.5 4.0 2.8 0.9 0.3 0.8 1.3 8.5

Code: [Select]


Per 36 Minutes

Season Name Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
17-18-R Jayson Tatum 19 80 80 2438 5.9 12.3 .475 1.6 3.6 .434 4.3 8.8 .492 3.1 3.8 .826 0.7 5.2 5.9 1.9 1.2 0.9 1.7 2.5 16.4
17-18-P Jayson Tatum 19 19 19 683 6.5 13.8 .471 1.2 3.7 .324 5.3 10.0 .526 4.3 5.1 .845 0.5 3.8 4.4 2.7 1.2 0.5 2.2 2.6 18.5
18-19-R Jayson Tatum 20 42 42 1301 6.9 15.5 .445 2.0 5.4 .367 4.9 10.1 .486 3.0 3.5 .858 1.2 6.1 7.3 2.0 1.2 0.8 1.8 2.5 18.8

17-18-R Jaylen Brown 21 70 70 2152 6.2 13.4 .465 2.0 5.1 .395 4.2 8.3 .507 2.5 3.9 .644 1.1 4.7 5.8 1.9 1.2 0.4 2.1 3.0 17.0
17-18-P Jaylen Brown 21 18 15 583 7.7 16.4 .466 2.7 6.9 .393 4.9 9.5 .519 2.0 3.1 .640 1.0 4.4 5.4 1.6 0.9 0.6 1.4 3.6 20.0
18-19-R Jaylen Brown 22 37 21 967 6.3 14.2 .445 1.5 4.9 .303 4.8 9.3 .520 2.4 3.7 .657 1.4 4.2 5.6 2.1 1.1 0.8 2.0 3.8 16.6

17-18-R Terry Rozier 23 80 16 2068 5.5 13.9 .395 2.7 7.0 .381 2.8 6.9 .410 2.0 2.6 .772 1.1 5.4 6.5 4.0 1.4 0.3 1.4 2.1 15.7
17-18-P Terry Rozier 23 19 19 696 5.6 13.8 .406 2.6 7.6 .347 2.9 6.2 .479 2.4 2.9 .821 0.4 4.8 5.2 5.6 1.2 0.3 1.1 2.0 16.2
18-19-R Terry Rozier 24 42 4 950 4.9 13.0 .377 2.2 6.4 .349 2.7 6.6 .405 1.6 2.0 .778 0.8 5.6 6.4 4.4 1.4 0.5 1.3 2.1 13.6

So when Kyrie says thinks like "everyone has to sacrifice" (which is the right sentiment and as a team leader he is entitled to say it) I wouldn't be surprised if some of the reaction from the "young guys" is "well we did just fine without you in the playoffs, we played our natural games and were a few shots from making it into the finals, now we're being asked to sacrifice but I don't see you (Kyrie) sacrificing that much, you're still the No1 option and plays are run for you so what are you sacrificing? I don't see Morris sacrificing, he's playing more minutes, taking more shots and hogging the ball more than he did last year..." Etc. etc.

It's a difficult situation and I can't think of too many young players in my past 30 years of watching who had to subordinate their performances after having breakout years - maybe the guys in San Antonio back in the day, but not many more. This is a test for Brad and Kyrie - as the coach and the marquee player can they get this team to consistently be singing from the same hymn sheet, while knowing that it's literally impossible for each of our top 8 players to average 20+ ppg every night? Because it will probably be only one or two, maybe three at most, guys who will be able to shine each night and everyone else may have to play supporting roles where they score less than 10 points. How do you make those guys feel like they were important contributors, not so much when the games are won but when the games are lost? Because winning masks a lot of dissatisfaction - losing is where all the finger pointing and blame comes out.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 03:27:21 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Harping on the Young Guys Too Much?
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2019, 04:49:05 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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In Kyrie's postgame comments last night, he talked about the team needing more "experience."

This might be the case. Maybe some of the young guys who made it to the conference finals last year and haven't had to experience much struggle at the NBA level are taking for granted just how hard it is most of the time.

But Hayward is still erratic. Horford hasn't been his best self this season. Kyrie is still, himself, figuring out how to be a leader and has never had to be a leader in a playoff situation.

Terry and Jaylen have had their struggles this year and Jayson has disappointed in some aspects of his development but I don't think harping on the youth is what's going to turn this team around. It has to be about everybody buying in and working together.


So when Kyrie says thinks like "everyone has to sacrifice" (which is the right sentiment and as a team leader he is entitled to say it) I wouldn't be surprised if some of the reaction from the "young guys" is "well we did just fine without you in the playoffs, we played our natural games and were a few shots from making it into the finals, now we're being asked to sacrifice but I don't see you (Kyrie) sacrificing that much, you're still the No1 option and plays are run for you so what are you sacrificing? I don't see Morris sacrificing, he's playing more minutes, taking more shots and hogging the ball more than he did last year..." Etc. etc.


Yeah well give them this year's Eastern Conference last year and let's hear the young guys talk about sacrifices and "doing fine without you in the playoffs". Tatum and his Kobe plays and shots. Brown and his inconsistencies. Rozier and his Scary Terry hype days becoming a scared Rozier.


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