Tennis Thread

[tenn_smoothie]

I did forget Nadal. He's an all time great. Is there a consensus that he is the second best player of all time? By the measure of majors, I guess you have to give it to him over Federer. Is Sampras 4th best of all time then? Are majors the best way to measure? I like tennis but I'm not an expert, by any means.

I think Novak is the greatest because he is the most complete player on all surfaces collectively (see below for more on that). I think Federer is 2 because of time at #1 and general dominance on both grass and hard court.  Nadal has 22 grand slams, but 14 were at the French (which is also why both Novak and Roger didn't win more there).  Nadal is much more a specialist than the other 2 so I'd have him 3. After those 3 I think Borg, Laver, and Sampras are all close together and very difficult to separate given era.

Also, more support for Novak, he is the only man to be the reigning champion at all 4 grand slams with the 3 different surfaces (laver played on grass and clay only).  He is the only man to win all 4 majors at least three times. He is also the only man to win all 9 masters tournaments in his career, which he has done twice.

Borg ? Connors and McEnroe were every bit his equal.

[footey]

I did forget Nadal. He's an all time great. Is there a consensus that he is the second best player of all time? By the measure of majors, I guess you have to give it to him over Federer. Is Sampras 4th best of all time then? Are majors the best way to measure? I like tennis but I'm not an expert, by any means.

I think Novak is the greatest because he is the most complete player on all surfaces collectively (see below for more on that). I think Federer is 2 because of time at #1 and general dominance on both grass and hard court.  Nadal has 22 grand slams, but 14 were at the French (which is also why both Novak and Roger didn't win more there).  Nadal is much more a specialist than the other 2 so I'd have him 3. After those 3 I think Borg, Laver, and Sampras are all close together and very difficult to separate given era.

Also, more support for Novak, he is the only man to be the reigning champion at all 4 grand slams with the 3 different surfaces (laver played on grass and clay only).  He is the only man to win all 4 majors at least three times. He is also the only man to win all 9 masters tournaments in his career, which he has done twice.

Borg ? Connors and McEnroe were every bit his equal.

McEnroe won 7 Majors, Conners 8.  Rod Laver won 11. Don't forget him...

[Moranis]

I did forget Nadal. He's an all time great. Is there a consensus that he is the second best player of all time? By the measure of majors, I guess you have to give it to him over Federer. Is Sampras 4th best of all time then? Are majors the best way to measure? I like tennis but I'm not an expert, by any means.

I think Novak is the greatest because he is the most complete player on all surfaces collectively (see below for more on that). I think Federer is 2 because of time at #1 and general dominance on both grass and hard court.  Nadal has 22 grand slams, but 14 were at the French (which is also why both Novak and Roger didn't win more there).  Nadal is much more a specialist than the other 2 so I'd have him 3. After those 3 I think Borg, Laver, and Sampras are all close together and very difficult to separate given era.

Also, more support for Novak, he is the only man to be the reigning champion at all 4 grand slams with the 3 different surfaces (laver played on grass and clay only).  He is the only man to win all 4 majors at least three times. He is also the only man to win all 9 masters tournaments in his career, which he has done twice.

Borg ? Connors and McEnroe were every bit his equal.

perhaps on hard courts, but Borg won 6 french and 5 straight at wimbledon.  In fact the only man to ever beat him at the French is Adriano Panatta who beat him in the 4th round in 73 and the quarters in 76.  Every other French Open Borg entered, he won.  McEnroe did end Borg's 41 match win streak at Wimbledon by beating him in the 81 Final.  After losing to McEnroe again at the US Open Final in 81, he walked off the court and basically retired (he played like 4 lesser tournaments until he tried to come back in 91).  He was 26 and still dominating on clay and grass, but walked away in his prime. 

Because Borg was so dominant on grass and clay, and won so much, I think he is ahead of Connors and McEnroe.  Those 11 grand slam titles are still 5th best all time in the open era, behind only Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, and Sampras (Emerson has 12 and Laver has 6 pre and 5 in open for 11 total).  After Borg, 8 is the next most in the open era from Connors, Lendl, and Agassi.  McEnroe is tied with Wilander with 7. 

[tenn_smoothie]

I'm not as high on Borg, despite his 11 majors. He wasn't mentally tough enough to handle the US Open. Connors cleaned his clock in the final there in '76 & '78 and McEnroe beat him in two finals there as well. I lost respect when Borg walked away from tennis after losing his World #1 ranking.

The thing people don't recognize is that by the time Borg and Mac hit their respective primes, Connors was on the back end of his but still came back to regain the World #1 in 1982 by beating Mac at Wimbledon and Lendl at the US Open. Connors would have won the Slam sweep in '74 if not for the French Federation banning him from Roland Garros for petty reasons. Also, Connors lost two Wimbledon finals with severe injuries, a stress fracture in '75 vs Ashe and a broken thumb in '77 vs Borg. As for "winning so much", Connors still has the most tournament titles @ 109.

Regarding Laver, you won't get any argument from me about his greatness -  twice sweeping the Slams in one year.

[Moranis]

Novak was down 2 sets to his countryman (Djere), but blitzed him off the court in the final 3 sets to advance with the final point coming at 1:30 in the morning.  We almost lost a shot at the final we all want.

[Goldstar88]

Novak was down 2 sets to his countryman (Djere), but blitzed him off the court in the final 3 sets to advance with the final point coming at 1:30 in the morning.  We almost lost a shot at the final we all want.

I’m hoping Novak plays Tommy Paul in the Semis. He’s currently ranked #12 in the world and is playing the best out of the Americans. Tommy beat Alcaraz in Toronto a few weeks ago.

[blink]

Man, that women's semi was a bit painful to watch. Keys got up 5-3 in the 2nd, and then it felt like she tightened up a lot. Keys lost her composure. Lots of unforced errors from Keys in those last 3 games and the tiebreaker.  Then Keys gets up 4-2 in the third and just doesn't have it in her to pull out the match.  I was hoping to see her against Coco in an all US final. 

[Goldstar88]

Man, that women's semi was a bit painful to watch. Keys got up 5-3 in the 2nd, and then it felt like she tightened up a lot. Keys lost her composure. Lots of unforced errors from Keys in those last 3 games and the tiebreaker.  Then Keys gets up 4-2 in the third and just doesn't have it in her to pull out the match.  I was hoping to see her against Coco in an all US final.

Really too bad. I was at the US Open on Saturday and saw her play. She looked very good. Best form since she made it to the Final vs Stephens. Coco will face Sabalenka tomorrow for the Championship.

[Moranis]

Ben Shelton's amazing run ended at Novak today. 

[Moranis]

Alcaraz is in big trouble.  Medvedev took the first set in a tiebreaker and is up 3-0 in the 2nd.

[Goldstar88]

Alcaraz making a push to take the 3rd set… Brady, Durant, Butler are at the match. Pretty cool to see.

[blink]

Medvedev played extremely well.  That 2nd semi was played at a high level.  I like watching both guys, and even in losing Alcaraz is making incredible shots.  Medvedev was just rock solid though.  Going to be an interesting final.

[ozgod]

Petty from Novak. He's mocking a 20 year old kid. Which is why even if he surpasses Roger and Rafa in terms of records he won't ever be as loved. Then again he likely doesn't care, and the winner can do what he likes.

Novak Djokovic mocked his defeated opponent Ben Shelton with a “hang up the phone” gesture after completing a straight-sets victory in the US Open semi-final.

The 20-year-old Shelton had used this distinctive celebration after his quarter-final victory over compatriot Frances Tiafoe, miming taking a call and then putting the handset down to suggest that he was “dialled in”.

So when Shelton banged his final forehand into the net, and Djokovic echoed his actions, it felt like a way of putting the young pretender in his place.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2023/09/08/ben-shelton-vs-novak-djokovic-us-open-2023-live-score/

[Goldstar88]

Medvedev played extremely well.  That 2nd semi was played at a high level.  I like watching both guys, and even in losing Alcaraz is making incredible shots.  Medvedev was just rock solid though.  Going to be an interesting final.

Yeah, should be a good one. I’m glad Medvedev advanced. He was beaten badly by Alcaraz the last two times they played. Daniil came in with a new game plan and was a lot more offensive. I think Medvedev wins tomorrow. According to ESPN, match will be at 4pm ET.

[Goldstar88]

Petty from Novak. He's mocking a 20 year old kid. Which is why even if he surpasses Roger and Rafa in terms of records he won't ever be as loved. Then again he likely doesn't care, and the winner can do what he likes.

Novak Djokovic mocked his defeated opponent Ben Shelton with a “hang up the phone” gesture after completing a straight-sets victory in the US Open semi-final.

The 20-year-old Shelton had used this distinctive celebration after his quarter-final victory over compatriot Frances Tiafoe, miming taking a call and then putting the handset down to suggest that he was “dialled in”.

So when Shelton banged his final forehand into the net, and Djokovic echoed his actions, it felt like a way of putting the young pretender in his place.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2023/09/08/ben-shelton-vs-novak-djokovic-us-open-2023-live-score/

Yep. He is who he is. Incredible tennis player… Not an incredible person. Will be pulling for Medvedev on Sunday.