Author Topic: Tennis Thread  (Read 129845 times)

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Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #300 on: July 16, 2023, 02:22:41 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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20 year old Carlos Alcaraz beats out Novak Djokovic to win the Wimbledon championship in a thrilling 5 hour, 5 set match. Youngest male player to win Wimbledon since Rafael Nadal (2006). It was a changing of the guard moment. Alcaraz now has 2 majors, after winning the US Open last year and is the #1 player in the world. The reign of King Carlos has begun.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 02:45:46 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #301 on: July 16, 2023, 02:27:41 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Great match.  I thought Novak post-match was one of the best 2nd place speeches I've ever heard.  Got a bit more respect for him off the court after that.  Alacaraz is definitely the future though tye old man is obviously still a threat.  Hopefully we get them again at the US Open final.
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Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #302 on: July 16, 2023, 02:35:22 PM »

Offline blink

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outstanding final today.  When Carlos went up 2-1 after the 3rd set, you just knew that Novak was going to somehow get back in the match.
Bravo to Carlos, he really had to play well to win that match. 

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #303 on: July 16, 2023, 04:35:04 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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It's wild how successful and dominant these tennis players have been over the last 30 years. Sampras, Federer, now Djokovic. I think you could make the case that each of them was the best ever when they stopped playing full time. The Serbian RFK Jr. is a total goofball, but he's an incredibly talented and resilient champion. It's amazing to watch this living legend, even if he didn't get it done today. And yes, Alcaraz is the next great player.

I'm happy to see Taylor Fritz and Frances Tiafoe crack the top 10. This hasn't happened for Americans since Mardy Fish and John Isner in 2012. Meanwhile, Fish is trying to beat Steph Curry at golf this afternoon in Tahoe.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 04:44:48 PM by green_bballers13 »

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #304 on: July 20, 2023, 07:54:54 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Saw this recent controversy: https://twitter.com/TheTennisLetter/status/1681409835819225088?s=20

Apparently Amarissa Toth stepped on a ball mark (to clean it) during a controversial out call. Some of the women on the tour are calling this utterly classless. What do you think?

I personally think tennis is too whiny and we need less arguments. That or take the human element out of officiating and have everything determined by AI. Either way, make this stuff less annoying to watch.

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #305 on: July 20, 2023, 08:55:49 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Saw this recent controversy: https://twitter.com/TheTennisLetter/status/1681409835819225088?s=20

Apparently Amarissa Toth stepped on a ball mark (to clean it) during a controversial out call. Some of the women on the tour are calling this utterly classless. What do you think?

I personally think tennis is too whiny and we need less arguments. That or take the human element out of officiating and have everything determined by AI. Either way, make this stuff less annoying to watch.
The ball was called out and the chair ump agreed.  According to the story I read, Zhang Shuai argued with the chair ump for several minutes and asked for a supervisor to come out which didn't happen.  After playing another point, Shuai continued to complain about the call.  That is ridiculous.  The ump should have cut the complaining off quickly, told her to start playing again and if she didn't start penalizing her points. 

I watch very little tennis nowadays.  Do they really complain much compared to the days of McEnroe, Connors, etc? 

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #306 on: July 23, 2023, 03:12:48 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I am absolutely not a fan of Tennis. I don’t like playing or watching.  Have to admit there have been intriguing figures through the years that occasionally got my interest. I watched about 5 minutes of the Wimbledon final - didn’t pull me in so I flipped the station.

I just watched an interview with Chris Eubanks - who I’d never heard of.  Just want to say that he was really impressive.  Engaging,  humble, very bright.  I may not watch much in the future but I’ll be rooting for success for Eubanks.

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #307 on: July 23, 2023, 08:10:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I am absolutely not a fan of Tennis. I don’t like playing or watching.  Have to admit there have been intriguing figures through the years that occasionally got my interest. I watched about 5 minutes of the Wimbledon final - didn’t pull me in so I flipped the station.

I just watched an interview with Chris Eubanks - who I’d never heard of.  Just want to say that he was really impressive.  Engaging,  humble, very bright.  I may not watch much in the future but I’ll be rooting for success for Eubanks.
Eubanks in his first Wimbledon made the quarters, but he isn't all that young at 27.  I have no idea if he is a late bloomer or just had a fluke run, but I do find him to be a good guy to root for and Americans needs someone to root for.  At least there are once again 2 American Men in the top 10 with Fritz at 9 and Tiafoe at 10 (and Tommy Paul is up to 14th).  Seems like forever since that has happened. 
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Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #308 on: July 23, 2023, 11:27:42 PM »

Offline wiley

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It's wild how successful and dominant these tennis players have been over the last 30 years. Sampras, Federer, now Djokovic. I think you could make the case that each of them was the best ever when they stopped playing full time. The Serbian RFK Jr. is a total goofball, but he's an incredibly talented and resilient champion. It's amazing to watch this living legend, even if he didn't get it done today. And yes, Alcaraz is the next great player.

I'm happy to see Taylor Fritz and Frances Tiafoe crack the top 10. This hasn't happened for Americans since Mardy Fish and John Isner in 2012. Meanwhile, Fish is trying to beat Steph Curry at golf this afternoon in Tahoe.

You forgot Nadal.  Right now it's

Djokovic with 23 grand slam tournament wins
Nadal with 22
and Federer with 20.

Sampras was 14 I think...or 12 not sure..

I hope Nadal can play and win the French again.  Then retire...

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #309 on: July 24, 2023, 02:10:20 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I did forget Nadal. He's an all time great. Is there a consensus that he is the second best player of all time? By the measure of majors, I guess you have to give it to him over Federer. Is Sampras 4th best of all time then? Are majors the best way to measure? I like tennis but I'm not an expert, by any means.

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #310 on: July 24, 2023, 03:06:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I did forget Nadal. He's an all time great. Is there a consensus that he is the second best player of all time? By the measure of majors, I guess you have to give it to him over Federer. Is Sampras 4th best of all time then? Are majors the best way to measure? I like tennis but I'm not an expert, by any means.
I think Novak is the greatest because he is the most complete player on all surfaces collectively (see below for more on that). I think Federer is 2 because of time at #1 and general dominance on both grass and hard court.  Nadal has 22 grand slams, but 14 were at the French (which is also why both Novak and Roger didn't win more there).  Nadal is much more a specialist than the other 2 so I'd have him 3. After those 3 I think Borg, Laver, and Sampras are all close together and very difficult to separate given era.

Also, more support for Novak, he is the only man to be the reigning champion at all 4 grand slams with the 3 different surfaces (laver played on grass and clay only).  He is the only man to win all 4 majors at least three times. He is also the only man to win all 9 masters tournaments in his career, which he has done twice.
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Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #311 on: July 24, 2023, 11:54:19 PM »

Offline wiley

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I did forget Nadal. He's an all time great. Is there a consensus that he is the second best player of all time? By the measure of majors, I guess you have to give it to him over Federer. Is Sampras 4th best of all time then? Are majors the best way to measure? I like tennis but I'm not an expert, by any means.
I think Novak is the greatest because he is the most complete player on all surfaces collectively (see below for more on that). I think Federer is 2 because of time at #1 and general dominance on both grass and hard court.  Nadal has 22 grand slams, but 14 were at the French (which is also why both Novak and Roger didn't win more there).  Nadal is much more a specialist than the other 2 so I'd have him 3. After those 3 I think Borg, Laver, and Sampras are all close together and very difficult to separate given era.

Also, more support for Novak, he is the only man to be the reigning champion at all 4 grand slams with the 3 different surfaces (laver played on grass and clay only).  He is the only man to win all 4 majors at least three times. He is also the only man to win all 9 masters tournaments in his career, which he has done twice.

I was shocked to see Federer only one the French open once.  Thought he would have got a couple more before Nadal got rolling. 

So there are three non-clay Grand Slams and only one clay grand slam tournament.  This certainly hurt Nadal.  If it were 2 clay and 2 non clay then he would have many more grand slams than the other two.  Clay favors endurance, while faster courts favor big servers and less heavy top spin (flatter harder hitters).  Nadal won a total of 8 non clay grand slams, including two Wimbledon's, which is the fastest surface.  Federer only crossed over and won the clay grand slam once.

I can't favor Federer over Nadal (I'd call them equals more or less).  But I can give the edge to Novak overall.

Federer had some time to dominate early on, before Nadal's rise and long before Novak's rise.
Nadal, all through his career, has had to face both Federer and/or Novak.
And Novak has had to deal with both  Nadal and Federer all through his prime.  And now Alcaraz.

I'd say

1. Novak
2. Federer and Nadal tie (slight edge to Nadal).

If another great player doesn't emerge soon, and Alcaraz can stay healthy, he could eclipse everyone as far as number of grand slam titles.  A lot has to go well though. 

To have three such great champions all at once (Novak, Federer and Nadal) is an anomaly I think.  It's more likely than not that Alcaraz will be a lone superstar for some years.  The level he plays at is extremely rare.  The first three had to share titles.  Not sure who Alcaraz will have to share with, other than Novak for two or three more years.




Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #312 on: July 25, 2023, 06:26:10 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Federer won his first major at the 2003 Wimbledon.  In 2004, he won 3, losing the French. Claudio Gaston won but Federer lost to 3 time French champion Gustavo Kuerton.  Nadal then started winning the French, picking up his first in 2005 (Federer had only those 4 grand slams at the time).  Federer won it in 2009. It wasn't until Wawrinka in 2015 someone other than Nadal won,  Novak won it in 2016, but then Nadal won the next 4, before Novak won again in 2021, then Nadal picked up his 14th in 2022 (he beat Novak in the quarters) with Novak winning his 3rd this year.  In other words, Federer didn't really have much time before Nadal started winning the French.  There are a lot of clay court specialists throughout tennis history.  Nadal is the best of them and found some success at the other majors, but he is definitely more clay oriented.
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Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #313 on: July 28, 2023, 10:47:57 PM »

Offline wiley

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One thing for sure...Federer made tennis look like ballet (at least on his side of the net).  No one at the top has ever made the game look so effortless.

Re: Tennis Thread
« Reply #314 on: August 29, 2023, 10:39:51 AM »

Offline Moranis

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As the US Open starts, I saw an amazing stat.  If you take out the last 2 sets at the French when Alcaraz was injured, in the last 1003 points that Carlos and Novak have played, Carlos has won 502 and Novak has won 501.  As close as you can get.  They are 1-1 in slams and 2-2 against each other.  A loss by either before they meet each other would be surprising (though Carlos less so than Novak).  Hopefully they have another instant classic. 
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