Poll: Yes or No start a role player in starting five

[KG Living Legend]

 It could literally be anyone. I know this is going to be a landslide victory for the normal starting five but I really think one team oriented, non selfish guy should be added.

 Example Smart, Grant Williams really hoping to see him in the starting lineup at some point. I would love to see Timelord get a chance but he's so raw.

 Theis will get some  starts for sure perfect role player and shooter.

 Any other ideas to play with the big four are welcomed with Tommy points 😉.

[gouki88]

I think it'll depend on how our best 5 roll together.

I think starting Hayward and giving him more of the keys on offence would help offset the play-making loss we're going to suffer from replacing Horford with Kanter. He's also much more of a threat to score from all three levels and generate free throws than anyone who'd start over him (like Smart).

However, there's also definite validity to turning Hayward into our Manu Ginobili. Manu was definitely better than guys like Bowen and Finley, but came off the bench (yet finished games, more importantly). I think Hayward could definitely be Manu to say, Smart's Bowen

[RPGenerate]

I think it'll depend on how our best 5 roll together.

I think starting Hayward and giving him more of the keys on offence would help offset the play-making loss we're going to suffer from replacing Horford with Kanter. He's also much more of a threat to score from all three levels and generate free throws than anyone who'd start over him (like Smart).

However, there's also definite validity to turning Hayward into our Manu Ginobili. Manu was definitely better than guys like Bowen and Finley, but came off the bench (yet finished games, more importantly). I think Hayward could definitely be Manu to say, Smart's Bowen

I mostly agree with you, but I think everyone trying to use Manu's situation as a comparison is... off base. First off, Manu's personality is incredibly rare. Most players that good simply aren't willing to play off the bench, even if they do get substantial amount of minutes. Second, Manu came off the bench because he trusted that it was best for the team. Are we gonna be better with Hayward coming off the bench? We have no idea, so asking him to do that right off the bat seems like a bad idea. Lastly, the Spurs were consistent contenders for 20 years, so the sacrifice for Manu was definitely worth it. From Hayward's perspective, is sacrificing a starting role worth being on a team that could possibly only wins 50 games every year?

[gouki88]

I think it'll depend on how our best 5 roll together.

I think starting Hayward and giving him more of the keys on offence would help offset the play-making loss we're going to suffer from replacing Horford with Kanter. He's also much more of a threat to score from all three levels and generate free throws than anyone who'd start over him (like Smart).

However, there's also definite validity to turning Hayward into our Manu Ginobili. Manu was definitely better than guys like Bowen and Finley, but came off the bench (yet finished games, more importantly). I think Hayward could definitely be Manu to say, Smart's Bowen

I mostly agree with you, but I think everyone trying to use Manu's situation as a comparison is... off base. First off, Manu's personality is incredibly rare. Most players that good simply aren't willing to play off the bench, even if they do get substantial amount of minutes. Second, Manu came off the bench because he trusted that it was best for the team. Are we gonna be better with Hayward coming off the bench? We have no idea, so asking him to do that right off the bat seems like a bad idea. Lastly, the Spurs were consistent contenders for 20 years, so the sacrifice for Manu was definitely worth it. From Hayward's perspective, is sacrificing a starting role worth being on a team that could possibly only wins 50 games every year?

Yeah, we definitely are a far cry from the Spurs in terms of, well, everything. Top end talent, coaching and scouting/drafting come to mind immediately.

It was just the easiest example of a clearly more talented player taking a bench role because it is better for the team. Maybe Hayward gels in our starting lineup (which wouldn't surprise me at all), but maybe he's best suited off the bench. That is for smarter people than me to determine!

[LilRip]

I voted for literally any other combination.

I honestly think Smart should start over Brown. If I were starting a team today, I’d take Brown over Smart but on a team with Kemba, Tatum, and GH, I think Smart fills a better role and is a better fit.

[Csfan1984]

Is it me or isn't this poll too much like last week's "Best 5 or Rotation" poll? I find the two questions have the same answers.

[Birdman]

who going score off the bench?..i would put Hayward as 6th man

[SHAQATTACK]

Haywad was not hired as a role player .   he needs to start and play up to his contract or dump him for cheaper role players

[Vermont Green]

I agree that if it turns out to be best for the team for Hayward (or Brown or Tatum) to play off the bench, they should play off the bench.  They can still get their minutes and their touches, just start off the bench.

The thing about on court units, I don't think it is good to have Brown, Tatum, and Hayward on the court at the same time.  They all do too much of the same things.  I also don't consider any of these guys as role players, any more than Ginobili was role player.  It doesn't matter if they start or are 6th man.  People are too hung up on that.

Now someone like Ojeleye is a role player as it Theis, RWill, Poirier.  These guys are going to have to play a lot, or more then ideal, maybe even start.  But whether they start or come off the bench, they still are what they are.

[action781]

I think you ideally want two playmakers on the floor at all times, but most always have one. Our primary playmakers are Kemba, Smart, and Hayward. I don't want to start all 3.

I think it's best to start Kemba and Hayward together. Then off the bench when Smart comes in to pair him with one of Kemba/Hayward/Edwards/Wanamaker to have good creation in those stretches.

[Hoopvortex]

I agree that if it turns out to be best for the team for Hayward (or Brown or Tatum) to play off the bench, they should play off the bench.  They can still get their minutes and their touches, just start off the bench.

Couldn't agree more. Kemba's lack of size, and Kanter's lack of rim protection, mean that the middle three starters have to carve out a lot of defensive space. I guess because of that I'm leaning toward Hayward as sixth man.

Question then is - do you start Smart (logical, and that's what they wound up doing last season), or do you replace Marcus Morris (which they also did last season), which would mean probably Ojeleye starting.

Smart is very versatile, and you could bring him in early, keeping Kemba in and running him off the ball; but you could do the same with Hayward, and I think on the whole that it would work best to start Smart.

If you're matching up against bigger players, especially a second big or a swing who can score, you are asking a lot of Jayson Tatum; Marcus Morris weighs 235, so it made sense to give him some starts. Morris is gone, so to fill that role you might need to start someone else. Options:

1) Ojeleye has a lot going for him in this role; weighs 241 with outstanding lower body, covers a lot of ground. Also could use consistent minutes to get his outside shot in order, as Scott Morrison has advocated. Lousy rebounder himself, but the team actually rebounded a little better with him in the game, +0.5%  (boxes out religiously).

2) Timelord might not be ready for primetime (Primetimelord?) but he'll get plenty of bench minutes this season, and might even wind up a starter. Pairing him with Kanter theoretically helps to make up for Enes' deficiencies in rim protection, and TL has the speed to cover out to the arc. On offense this pairing has the negative potential to clog the lane - unless Kanter becomes a 3-pt threat, something the coaching staff have already hinted at.

3) Poirier is apparently the closest thing to a replacement for Aron Baynes, because of his size.  Two seasons ago, Baynes became the regular starter in two-big lineups for Boston, so it seems possible that we'll see something similar with Poirier. But as a starter? First of all, if you pair him with Kanter you again have the issue of clogging the lane, and again one solution is for Kanter to become at least a part-time 3-pt threat. I can't say I've got a good handle on Vincent's game; the highlight vids I've seen are about 85% him being the roll man, getting to the rim, and dunking. Good hands to catch a pass; oddly in the vids I saw he dunked a lot with his left while blocking shots with his right.

The thing about on court units, I don't think it is good to have Brown, Tatum, and Hayward on the court at the same time. 

I do. But as starters, I'm less enthusiastic, and more in line with what you're thinking.

They all do too much of the same things. 

I don't go along with this. Jaylen can guard quick wings ("shooting guards"), while having a size advantage on offense; Tatum has to be guarded by someone mobile and long; if he's your "4" he's constantly dictating his matchup, taking him out of the paint. That gives Hayward space to operate, create off the dribble, dissect double-teams with the pass, hit Jayson or Jaylen spotting up or in position to exploit a mismatch.

I also don't consider any of these guys as role players...

Nor do I, including Marcus Smart. Having said that, of course, I remind you of Red Auerbach's comment, which still applies today: "Everybody is a role-player."

Now someone like Ojeleye is a role player as it Theis, RWill, Poirier.  These guys are going to have to play a lot, or more then ideal, maybe even start. 

You might mean "less than ideal"?

In any case, your point is well taken - the big question is, does Boston start two bigs, a big and good-sized swing, or a big and Jayson Tatum?

But whether they start or come off the bench, they still are what they are.

Again, point taken. But having said that, all four of the guys you mention are still quite young, and "what they are" is very much subject to change.

[Hoopvortex]

I think you ideally want two playmakers on the floor at all times, but most always have one. Our primary playmakers are Kemba, Smart, and Hayward. I don't want to start all 3.

I agree - better to start Brown.

I think it's best to start Kemba and Hayward together. Then off the bench when Smart comes in to pair him with one of Kemba/Hayward/Edwards/Wanamaker to have good creation in those stretches.

I can see starting Kemba/Hayward, as you're proposing. My preference is to start Smart, however, and bring Hayward off the bench.

The last few years, Brad has consistently paired Smart with a point guard, allowing stuff like posting up Smart, running the offense through him, and playing IT/Kyrie/Rozier off the ball. Walker would be great in that role.

I'm delighted by your bringing Carsen Edwards into the mix here; he may be only a rookie but there's an opening for his skillset this season; and he, again, would make a good pairing with Marcus Smart. I'm skeptical about Walker/Edwards because of size, though we saw some Kyrie/Shane Larkin lineups year before last; Hayward/Edwards is certainly intriguing.

Alas I'm doubtful that we'll see a lot of Brad Wanamaker, looking at how many are in front of him. If he's playing a lot, it's because of injuries.

[KG Living Legend]

I agree that if it turns out to be best for the team for Hayward (or Brown or Tatum) to play off the bench, they should play off the bench.  They can still get their minutes and their touches, just start off the bench.

The thing about on court units, I don't think it is good to have Brown, Tatum, and Hayward on the court at the same time.  They all do too much of the same things.  I also don't consider any of these guys as role players, any more than Ginobili was role player.  It doesn't matter if they start or are 6th man.  People are too hung up on that.

Now someone like Ojeleye is a role player as it Theis, RWill, Poirier.  These guys are going to have to play a lot, or more then ideal, maybe even start.  But whether they start or come off the bench, they still are what they are.

 Really got stuff. TP to you, jambr, vortex, and a couple other guys. Keep it up.
 
 

[nickagneta]

Kanter is a role player. I thought that pretty evident, though, maybe to some it's not, but he is. The suggested lineup already has 1 role player, so, isn't the real question more like: "do you like this starting lineup or just about any other?"?

My answer is, as long as Stevens has a rotation that gets players out of the starting five quickly in the 1st and 3rd and so is always having 2 to 3 starters on the floor at all times, then I have no problems with that starting unit.

[KG Living Legend]

 But Kanter is not a role player that serves the other stars. Kanter himself wants shots all day.