Ime has got to go!

[Wretch]

Ime is a first year coach and has a lot to figure out but I am willing to be patient. This core was a .500 team last year under a coach most NBA insiders considered to be a top 10 coach in the league.  The fact that they are still basically a .500 team under a rookie HC shouldn't be surprising. The roster is more balanced/better than last year, but not so much better that we should have expected a radically different outcome from the prior year.

I think we've already seen some growth from Ime with the rotations. Schroder and Smart have not on the floor together as much in the past couple of games. 

The team is a top 10ish defense and mid 20s on offense.  This team was always going to struggle offensively with so many non-shooters on the roster.  The team has a positive point differential that points to some of their record being partly attributable to bad luck that will hopefully balance out by the end of the season. Also only 2 players on the roster are shooting at or above their career averages, GW and Richardson.  Hopefully that will normalize in the second half.

The 2 things I think Ime deserves to be criticized for are the heavy minutes/short rotations. I think this is contributing to some, not all, of the late game collapses and the poor overall shooting. I also take issue with his unwillingness to play the young players.  PP and AN played good basketball under CBS in the 2nd half of the of last year and I don't understand why they can't get on the court under Ime.
 

[Csfan1984]

I can't believe people feel Jays are getting too many minutes. I have to assume everyone is talking about the role players and not the two stars. I say that because most impact young players play 38 to 40 mins on average if they have good conditioning. Look at your Jordans, Iversons, Kobe, LeBron, KD, etc. Even Pierce who was never in super fit shape had a few seasons of 38 mins a game.

Unless a guy is injury prone or there is a good bench player behind them who demands some play there should be no problem with players going up 42 minutes. Just keep the weight training light and make sure they carb up. We already know practice has been dramatically cut back so guys aren't putting that work on their bodies this year or last.

[Roy H.]

I think the problem with Ime is that there's not a single thing I can assess him on where I rate him above-average, let alone very good or excellent. 

He doesn't seem to be a great motivator, or a master in developing chemistry

He doesn't seem to develop talent well.

He doesn't seem to manage a rotation well.

He doesn't seem like a good Xs-and-Os coach, and doesn't really call great plays after stoppages

He doesn't seem to be great at running an offense or a defense

To be one of the top 30 guys in the profession, I feel like somebody has to be at the very least really good at something.  With Brad, he wasn't perfect as a rookie, but it was clear immediately that he could develop talent, get his team to play hard, and could call plays. 

I thought Ime was a good hire, but he's been disappointing.  I think he needs seasoned NBA coaches on his bench beside him.  It's unlikely that he will be fired, but in hindsight asking Ime to essentially learn to coach as he goes was perhaps not a great strategy.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I thought Ime was a good hire, but he's been disappointing.  I think he needs seasoned NBA coaches on his bench beside him.  It's unlikely that he will be fired, but in hindsight asking Ime to essentially learn to coach as he goes was perhaps not a great strategy.

This is how I feel, too. I wish Pops took a relaxing detour away from head coach to being our assistant coach or something. With that kind of guidance and mentorship, I bet Ime could live up to our hopes and dreams of someone even better than CBS.

In fairness to Ime, though, we’re pretty much the same meandering mediocrity we were in 2020-2021. For that reason I think we’ve gotta give him through at least the end of 2022-2023 before making a decision about the future. Frankly, a bit surprised that the “yes/maybe” choices on the poll question are pretty much 60-40 ahead of no. We’re all impatient at times, myself perhaps most of all, but nobody will want to be our future HC if we run a guy out of town with a .500 record after just one season. My two cents FWIW.

[jbpats]

He's horrendous and just looks constantly confused on the sidelines. There is just this constant deer in the headlights look on his face all game, almost like he is 2-3 plays behind what is actually going on in the court.

It was not a great choice for the Celtics, but I feel there was a lot of pressure to hire an African American head coach to silence the 'Boston is racist' nonsense, even though the top candidates for the team may not have been African American.

All that being said he's just as bad as Billups and Kidd, who were the other rumored candidates for us, so I think we would be in the same boat regardless. My choice at the time was Becky Hammon which clearly would have never happened since the NBA isn't ready for a woman head coach, but to me she was the most deserving of the opportunity.

[Csfan1984]

I think the problem with Ime is that there's not a single thing I can assess him on where I rate him above-average, let alone very good or excellent. 

He doesn't seem to be a great motivator, or a master in developing chemistry

He doesn't seem to develop talent well.

He doesn't seem to manage a rotation well.

He doesn't seem like a good Xs-and-Os coach, and doesn't really call great plays after stoppages

He doesn't seem to be great at running an offense or a defense

To be one of the top 30 guys in the profession, I feel like somebody has to be at the very least really good at something.  With Brad, he wasn't perfect as a rookie, but it was clear immediately that he could develop talent, get his team to play hard, and could call plays. 

I thought Ime was a good hire, but he's been disappointing.  I think he needs seasoned NBA coaches on his bench beside him.  It's unlikely that he will be fired, but in hindsight asking Ime to essentially learn to coach as he goes was perhaps not a great strategy.

All great points. I do think Ime is good at P.R. and deflection. I think he says many of the right things. Seems he is learning on the job for one of the most demanding franchises. He should have coached somewhere else first. I still put the team's struggles on BS.

[LilRip]

This team is definitely playing less than the sum of its parts. The team is practically healthy (sans Pritchard) and we’re still relying on talent instead of coaching, chemistry, teamwork, and discipline to win games. I guess if you’re going to will a win thru sheer brute force, you could do worse than doing it through 2 dynamic allstars who can dominate for stretches at a time.

I don’t think this is purely a Udoka problem as this trend started last year but something is definitely not working and I don’t think Udoka has the chops to “right the ship”. Here are some of my theories as to why we’re so middle-of-the-road this year despite having a talented roster and it could be due to a combination (if not all) of them:
1. Slow pace (coaching and player problem)
2. Minimal off ball movement (coaching and player problem)
3. Heavy iso play calls and hero ball (coaching and player problem)
4. inconsistent focus and effort (player problem)
5. Lack of shooting (front office problem)
6. Slow adjustments (coaching problem)
7. Mismatched roles with personnel (coaching and front office problem)

[Wretch]

I can't believe people feel Jays are getting too many minutes. I have to assume everyone is talking about the role players and not the two stars. I say that because most impact young players play 38 to 40 mins on average if they have good conditioning. Look at your Jordans, Iversons, Kobe, LeBron, KD, etc. Even Pierce who was never in super fit shape had a few seasons of 38 mins a game.

Unless a guy is injury prone or there is a good bench player behind them who demands some play there should be no problem with players going up 42 minutes. Just keep the weight training light and make sure they carb up. We already know practice has been dramatically cut back so guys aren't putting that work on their bodies this year or last.

First of all you just listed 4 of the top 25 players, ever.  With the exception of LBJ and KD they played at a much slower pace than todays players and in the case of KD and Kobe, both had catastrophic injuries that could be attributed to playing so many minutes over the regular and post seasons.  They were just such elite talents that even with what they lost they were/are still incredible players.  LBJ is just a freak of nature.  His health through his career is borderline miraculous.  You fail to mention players like Rose and Noah, who had their careers altered or ended due to high minutes.

[Roy H.]

I can't believe people feel Jays are getting too many minutes. I have to assume everyone is talking about the role players and not the two stars. I say that because most impact young players play 38 to 40 mins on average if they have good conditioning. Look at your Jordans, Iversons, Kobe, LeBron, KD, etc. Even Pierce who was never in super fit shape had a few seasons of 38 mins a game.

Unless a guy is injury prone or there is a good bench player behind them who demands some play there should be no problem with players going up 42 minutes. Just keep the weight training light and make sure they carb up. We already know practice has been dramatically cut back so guys aren't putting that work on their bodies this year or last.

One of the problems is, JT didn't keep the weight training light.  He bulked up to play more power forward.  In turn, his coach has barely played him at the 4, and is having him play the 5th most minutes in the NBA despite the significant weight gain.

It seems like there's a pretty clear disconnect between what Tatum did in the off-season and Ime's philosophy.

You reference Lebron, but he is a huge advocate for "load management".  There's something to be said for that.  If you look at the top six in minutes, three guys -- Tatum, Lillard and Harden -- are really struggling with their shot.  There may be some correlation there.

There are opportunities to get guys rest.  Richardson has been playing very well, and he's only seeing around 25 minutes per game.  Nesmith, Langford and Pritchard have all shown NBA ability.  Freedom could realistically play almost double what he does.

Our roster isn't perfect, but depth shouldn't be a huge concern.  We've got the horses to run with more than an 8 / 9 man rotation.

For comparison, look at Eric Spoelstra (possibly the most underrated coach in NBA history).  He's got 12 guys on the team who have both played 18+ games and who have averaged 14.8 minutes.  He's got another handful of guys who have seen regular time.  It's impressive.

[tonydelk]

It feels like Ime is pulling a stevens keeping his young guys locked on the bench.  Maybe they are showcasing the vets for trades but there is no reason why Nesmith and Romeo are glued to the bench when the players in front of them can't hit the broad side of a barn.  This is on Ime.  It's like he's so desperate for a win that he won't play the young guys.  The young guys should be playing a lot right now.  The team needs to see if any of these first round picks are keepers.  This team needs a playmaking PG in the worst way.  They also need a shooter to go along side Tatum and Brown and Horford should not be seeing the floor right now until he figures out.  He only played 23 minutes last night but it should have been zero with the backup Center minutes going to Kanter.  Romeo and Nesmith should have had those minutes.

[pokeKingCurtis]

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/1/15/22884965/ime-udoka-boston-celtics-philadelphia-76ers-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-dennis-schroder-joel-embiid

So Udoka took some blame for last game.

Still not 100% on-board with him, but I still think people should wait before casting judgment. Does feel like he's got some principals he's trying to uphold here.

[radiohead]

It feels like Ime is pulling a stevens keeping his young guys locked on the bench.  Maybe they are showcasing the vets for trades but there is no reason why Nesmith and Romeo are glued to the bench when the players in front of them can't hit the broad side of a barn.  This is on Ime.  It's like he's so desperate for a win that he won't play the young guys.  The young guys should be playing a lot right now.  The team needs to see if any of these first round picks are keepers.  This team needs a playmaking PG in the worst way.  They also need a shooter to go along side Tatum and Brown and Horford should not be seeing the floor right now until he figures out.  He only played 23 minutes last night but it should have been zero with the backup Center minutes going to Kanter.  Romeo and Nesmith should have had those minutes.

It’s really sad we have some lottery talent just glued on the bench, while we see guys like Dosunmu lighting us up big time. Player development hasn’t really been a strong suit of the Celtics recently. If guys like Garrison Matthews and even Mike Strus could play quality minutes for other teams, why can’t Neismith and Romeo do the same?

[Silas]

It feels like Ime is pulling a stevens keeping his young guys locked on the bench.  Maybe they are showcasing the vets for trades but there is no reason why Nesmith and Romeo are glued to the bench when the players in front of them can't hit the broad side of a barn.  This is on Ime.  It's like he's so desperate for a win that he won't play the young guys.  The young guys should be playing a lot right now.  The team needs to see if any of these first round picks are keepers.  This team needs a playmaking PG in the worst way.  They also need a shooter to go along side Tatum and Brown and Horford should not be seeing the floor right now until he figures out.  He only played 23 minutes last night but it should have been zero with the backup Center minutes going to Kanter.  Romeo and Nesmith should have had those minutes.

It’s really sad we have some lottery talent just glued on the bench, while we see guys like Dosunmu lighting us up big time. Player development hasn’t really been a strong suit of the Celtics recently. If guys like Garrison Matthews and even Mike Strus could play quality minutes for other teams, why can’t Neismith and Romeo do the same?

and some consistent minutes for Payton.

[DrJasper]

I want Rondo as HC as soon as he retires, feels like he is working towards a coaching career for a while

[Kiorrik]

I want Rondo as HC as soon as he retires, feels like he is working towards a coaching career for a while

Dunno about HC straight up but gosh I want him here so bad.