Brad Stevens is not an elite coach

[Spicoli]

How do you preach ball movement then allow bigs to take 3’s early in the shot clock?

Exactly. How many times does Baynes or Theis take 3 pointers simply because they are left open? That's what the opposing team WANTS them to do and Stevens encourages that. Stevens does not have a clue. Al Horford is simply not a center at this point in his career. He needs to be moved to power forward full time and either Baynes or Williams needs to be the full time center. Don't even get me started on his timeout management or his refusal to change the starting lineup. I've been ready to move on from Stevens. Glad other people are seeing it now.

[Spicoli]

I'm ready to go back to another lineup. I think the team can handle a few changes and it will throw off any scouting playoff teams have done on the team.

I would go with
Kyrie
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Baynes

First 3 together off the bench - Hayward, Morris, Smart
Then Rozier subs for Kyrie

Then in the 2nd half you do the same thing up until the 6 min mark in the 4th.

Late 4th you play who has performed well for that game.

This way opponents never really know who will be closing games.

I'm on board with pretty much all of this.

[KGs Knee]

I remember when Doc came to Boston, Pierce was a still young, stubborn star. Pierce was not happy Antoine got traded and O'Brien replaced.  Doc and Paul clashed a bit at first, but Doc finally got through to him after a little while.

I'm not confident Stevens could have accomplished that.

[Bobshot]

You have to wonder about Stevens. About all those 3P shots. About the lack of a paint protector. About his choice of Hayward to start the season as a starter. About hints of discord about favoritism.

Has Stevens hit a wall?  I wasn't happy with the pre-season, where it seemed very little time was spent to define a starting rotation. Instead, most preseason games seemed more to decide who the 14th and 15th payers on the roster would be.  And then the slow start, with Kyrie and Hayward  coming back from injuries, maybe not ready to start.

As I recall, they were 11-11 at 22 games, or thereabouts. They've played much better since then--pretty close to the #2 seed, Toronto, but the slow start has left them a few notches below that. But still, they lose a lot of games to lesser teams, too many games at home, and have periods of poor play--usually when they are  cold on the 3P shot. You live by it, you die by it.  And your opponent  often responds with an easy layup--which used to be the Celtics strength. Getting the easy shots. Maybe before the times of some here.

I'm not a big proponent of the 3P shot--at least the way it is used today. When Ainge played, he and Bird took the 3P shots. Almost nobody else, in my recollection. Simple arithmetic says if you can't hit 33% , you shouldn't be shooting the 3.  Any team that shoots less than 30% 3s in a game usually loses--assuming they take 35 or so 3s.

I have a hunch this is not going to be an easy off season for Ainge.

[mctyson]

Also in the boat of waiting to see what happens come playoff time.

When the same rotations everyone is complaining about will be out the window.

[petbrick]

I'm not a big proponent of the 3P shot--at least the way it is used today. When Ainge played, he and Bird took the 3P shots. Almost nobody else, in my recollection. Simple arithmetic says if you can't hit 33% , you shouldn't be shooting the 3.  Any team that shoots less than 30% 3s in a game usually loses--assuming they take 35 or so 3s.

1)Perhaps that's why the Celtics (who as a team are 36% from behind the arc) are winning more games than they're losing?

2)Yes, making shots is more beneficial than missing shots, but only if the other team aren't able to make more shots than you do.

[Donoghus]

Also in the boat of waiting to see what happens come playoff time.

When the same rotations everyone is complaining about will be out the window.

You'd assume so. You're not playing with minute restrictions & screwing around with experimental lineups.

[Bobshot]

How do you preach ball movement then allow bigs to take 3’s early in the shot clock?

Exactly. How many times does Baynes or Theis take 3 pointers simply because they are left open? That's what the opposing team WANTS them to do and Stevens encourages that. Stevens does not have a clue. Al Horford is simply not a center at this point in his career. He needs to be moved to power forward full time and either Baynes or Williams needs to be the full time center. Don't even get me started on his timeout management or his refusal to change the starting lineup. I've been ready to move on from Stevens. Glad other people are seeing it now.

Baynes and Theis aren't the only ones who shouldn't be shooting 3s. Everyone has a role on a good team, and not everyone should be shooting 3s. Maybe the problem is roles haven't been clearly designated.

I keep going back to the championship Celtics teams of the past. Even Doc's team had designated 3P guys. House and Posey come to mind, along with Pierce. KG wouldn't be caught dead shooting a 3. Allen, of course, was the 3 specialist.

[PhoSita]

I would just point out one of the biggest precepts of modern ball-movement offenses is not just keeping the ball moving to find the open man, but having all the guys on the floor capable and willing of taking an open shot.

That's why Brad wants big men who can take an open three, and why he empowers players who do not have especially high percentage three point shots to take a good number of threes, provided that those shots are good ones (i.e. open).


The Celts are one of the top teams in the league in terms of open shots, so that philosophy does seem to work in a lot of respects.

An open three pointer, even if it's being attempted by a guy who shots only ~33% from that distance, is one of the best shots you can generate with an offensive possession in the half-court.


The issue isn't that big men are taking threes.  The issue with the offense, as I see it, is that the team doesn't have a way to reliably generate shots that are not jumpers from 20+ feet.  The fact that the team is also quite bad at generating free throws compounds that problem.

[RPGenerate]

I would just point out one of the biggest precepts of modern ball-movement offenses is not just keeping the ball moving to find the open man, but having all the guys on the floor capable and willing of taking an open shot.

That's why Brad wants big men who can take an open three, and why he empowers players who do not have especially high percentage three point shots to take a good number of threes, provided that those shots are good ones (i.e. open).


The Celts are one of the top teams in the league in terms of open shots, so that philosophy does seem to work in a lot of respects.

An open three pointer, even if it's being attempted by a guy who shots only ~33% from that distance, is one of the best shots you can generate with an offensive possession in the half-court.


The issue isn't that big men are taking threes.  The issue with the offense, as I see it, is that the team doesn't have a way to reliably generate shots that are not jumpers from 20+ feet.  The fact that the team is also quite bad at generating free throws compounds that problem.

Tbf I think the free throw problem is more of a personnel issue then anything. No player on this team ais good at drawing fouls, regardless of coaching.