2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?

[Roy H.]

As usual the way this works is you post your team roster, maybe give a brief synopsis of how you think your team will work and if another GM comments about your team, be kind enough to go and comment about their team when they post their roster. The only rule:  you can't talk about your team until you have discussed somebody else's, preferably in some detail.

Of course, for outsiders and spectators of the game, your input and critiques are more than welcome.

Last thing to mention, don't take any criticisms of your team too seriously. It's just a game. Be kind to one another.

Rosters are here (not fully updated):  https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=108318.0

[RodyTur10]

Chicago (smokeablount):
PG: Deron Williams
SG: David Thompson
SF: Tracy McGrady
PF: Blake Griffin / Larry Nance Sr.
C: Bob Lanier

McGrady is to be feared in this league. Your front court has already been discussed and adding Nance Sr. was a good move. The perimeter defense is vulnerable. But you have a strong team here.

Utah (wdleehi):
PG: Tony Parker
SG: Joe Johnson / Dale Ellis
SF: Grant Hill
PF: Chris Bosh / Larry Johnson
C: Artis Gilmore

Lots of offensive options. It will be interesting to hear how your going to play.
Hill is great in many things, but you might be awfully reliant on his man defense.

Memphis (celticinorlando):
PG: Kemba Walker
SG: Vince Carter / Michael Cooper
SF: Alex English
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Horace Grant
C: Yao Ming

With your latest selections you're trying to fix a serious problem with balance. There's a diminishment in value with so many scorers. Tweaking the starting line-up and you might still surprise people.

Denver (Who):
PG: Kevin Johnson / Gus Williams
SG: Eddie Jones
SF: Bernard King
PF:
C: Alonzo Mourning / Jack Sikma

How dominant is Mourning going to be in this competition? That's the question for me.
You have some advantages, but to me it's not a fluid team yet. Can't really expain it.

Toronto (theswitch):
PG: Penny Hardaway / Fat Lever
SG: Paul Westphal
SF: Marques Johnson
PF: Bobby Jones
C: Marc Gasol

It may not immediately blow you away, but you have specialists with an overall good game.
I can totally envision a Spurs-type of play. Really like it. May need some extra shooting?

OKC (Celtic Fan Forever):
PG: Chauncey Billups
SG: Michael Redd / Dan Majerle
SF: Peja Stojakovic
PF: Shawn Kemp
C: Dwight Howard

This team stands out. I expect Majerle to be a starter.
Can you win with two bigs who can't shoot from deep? I think you can.

LA Clippers (RPGenerate):
PG: Dennis Johnson
SG: Sidney Moncrief
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf
C: Ben Wallace

The defense is amazing. Teams are not going to like playing against you.
But do you have enough shooting and creativity?

Orlando Magic (gouki88):
PG: Terry Porter / Steve Francis
SG: Joe Dumars
SF: Brandon Roy
PF: Chris Webber / Terry Cummings
C: Ralph Sampson

I like a lot of your selections. You're building a roster made for the modern game.
Will you go small ball or will that emphasize a lack of size? Difficult decision.

Brooklyn (Moranis):
PG: Maurice Cheeks
SG: Drazen Petrovic
SF: Adrian Dantley
PF: Amare Stoudemire / Dan Issel
C: Pau Gasol

There's been a debate on Stoudemire, but I would stay put with this front court.
I think it will work. But I seriously worry about your wing defense.

Cleveland (Roy H.):
PG:  Mookie Blaylock
SG: Manu Ginobili
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Elton Brand / Andrei Kirilenko
C:  Dikembe Mutombo / DeMarcus Cousins

Your front court is really scary. In pains me to see AK47 on the bench. It may change.
Looking forward to see how fill in the rest of the roster. It needs more shooters.

Sacramento (Donoghus):
PG: Mark Price
SG: Mitch Richmond / Andrew Toney
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: Maurice Lucas / Zach Randolph
C: Vlade Divac

You have a very good back court. Just not convinced it's enough.
When I participated in a draft in the same position, it found it a tough spot with so many selections between picks.

Washington (Kernewek):
PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Gilbert Arenas
SG: Alvin Robertson
SF: Glen Rice
PF: Rasheed Wallace
C: Joakim Noah

Superb pick with Arenas. I think you're still in the race to win it.
It's a balanced team. Don't have much advice here.

[Who]

Chicago (smokeablount):
PG: Deron Williams
SG: David Thompson
SF: Tracy McGrady
PF: Blake Griffin / Larry Nance Sr.
C: Bob Lanier

McGrady is to be feared in this league. Your front court has already been discussed and adding Nance Sr. was a good move. The perimeter defense is vulnerable. But you have a strong team here.

I'd think about starting Nance and bringing Blake Griffin off the bench as a 6th man. Only one ball. Nance can do more with a smaller number of touches than Blake can.

[Kernewek]

Chicago (smokeablount):
PG: Deron Williams
SG: David Thompson
SF: Tracy McGrady
PF: Blake Griffin / Larry Nance Sr.
C: Bob Lanier

McGrady is to be feared in this league. Your front court has already been discussed and adding Nance Sr. was a good move. The perimeter defense is vulnerable. But you have a strong team here.

I'd think about starting Nance and bringing Blake Griffin off the bench as a 6th man. Only one ball. Nance can do more with a smaller number of touches than Blake can.

On the other hand - the Clippers won 50+ games year after year on the CP3/Griffin PnR, and prime Deron Williams is just as good if not slightly better than most LAC Paul seasons.

[Who]

Denver (Who):
PG: Kevin Johnson / Gus Williams
SG: Eddie Jones
SF: Bernard King
PF:
C: Alonzo Mourning / Jack Sikma

How dominant is Mourning going to be in this competition? That's the question for me.
You have some advantages, but to me it's not a fluid team yet. Can't really expain it.

Fluidity is an interesting word for it. I am wondering the same thing.

I had two sort of plans. The first plan was when I drafted Zo to build a bigger more physical basketball team. The second plan was after drafting KJ and King neither of whom I expected to be available. That plan was to play smaller, quicker, more skillful. Sort of an uptempo four out one in game-plan but a little different. That plan did not work out well.

So with adding Vin Baker to the team today I now have a different type of team again. Baker was one of the guys I was lookin at for that bigger physical team alongside Zo. So now I got two large guys who like to play in the paint. I am not sure where the team is now in terms of style of play / fluidity / fit. I am trying to figure that out. It works but I am not sure how well it works (how fluid it is).

[Who]

Denver (Who):
PG: Kevin Johnson / Gus Williams
SG: Eddie Jones
SF: Bernard King
PF:
C: Alonzo Mourning / Jack Sikma

How dominant is Mourning going to be in this competition? That's the question for me.
You have some advantages, but to me it's not a fluid team yet. Can't really expain it.

I am not expecting Zo to dominate.

There are 4 centers who have won multiple DPOY awards starting in this league. Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard and Zo. Of the four, only two have an offensive game. Of the four, only one of them can make a jump-shot outside of 10 feet.

I drafted Zo because I liked the defensive foundation he gave me while also giving me an offensive threat who can step outside of the paint and knock down shots. Opening up the floor for others.

I guess I am looking for Zo not to dominate but to be the foundation. A pillar. A load bearing wall for the rest of the house (team) to be built around.


I am looking at KJ and King as my two best offensive players. King is my main scorer. KJ is probably my #1 overall offensive player if you combine scoring + playmaking. The team's offense will revolve around them rather than Zo.

[Who]

Toronto (theswitch):
PG: Penny Hardaway / Fat Lever
SG: Paul Westphal
SF: Marques Johnson
PF: Bobby Jones
C: Marc Gasol

It may not immediately blow you away, but you have specialists with an overall good game.
I can totally envision a Spurs-type of play. Really like it. May need some extra shooting?

Ahh, I had Fat Lever on the wrong team. My bad.

I love that three man backcourt. Let Penny play some SG as well as PG. Let Fat take over running the team and Penny just be an attacker instead of having to worry about setting everyone else up all the time.

JO was a big time addition to this team. Solidified that frontcourt. I wasn't sure about Bobby Jones as a starter. Or where his shooting would fare in today's game. JO did a lot to reinforce this team. A double defensive anchor. A low post option alongside Gasol. Physicality and intimidation. Stronger rebounding.

[Who]

LA Clippers (RPGenerate):
PG: Dennis Johnson
SG: Sidney Moncrief
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf
C: Ben Wallace

The defense is amazing. Teams are not going to like playing against you.
But do you have enough shooting and creativity?

I am curious about starting Artest at the four. Uptempo defensive basketball. Like the Celtics of the 70s or 60s. Run and gun through physical defense & rebounding.

Artest has the strength to handle most PFs. He'd certainly be able to play there in today's 2023 league. This CB Historical League has a lot of size at PF though. I am not sure. Maybe it won't be able work here.

Yeah, there is probably too much size for Artest to play there full time. I do like him part time at PF. I think he can work against guys like Bosh. Maybe Amare (try to limit his face up game). Blake Griffin (deny his dribble drive game of his DET year). A couple of smaller (LJ, Jamison) or less skilled (Ibaka, Buck Williams, H Grant, B Jones) backup PFs that Artest could work against. Probably only a part-time thing.

[Who]

Cleveland (Roy H.):
PG:  Mookie Blaylock
SG: Manu Ginobili
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Elton Brand / Andrei Kirilenko
C:  Dikembe Mutombo / DeMarcus Cousins

Your front court is really scary. In pains me to see AK47 on the bench. It may change.
Looking forward to see how fill in the rest of the roster. It needs more shooters.

Should Cousins start?

Open up the paint. Cousins in the high post. He can facilitate. He can play high low with Brand. The paint is more congested there with Dikembe. Harder for Brand to get space in the post to go to work. May make Brand more of a jump-shooter. Cousins will also open space up for Iggy. More of a PnR / PnP threat for Manu & Mookie.

[Roy H.]

Cleveland (Roy H.):
PG:  Mookie Blaylock
SG: Manu Ginobili
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Elton Brand / Andrei Kirilenko
C:  Dikembe Mutombo / DeMarcus Cousins

Your front court is really scary. In pains me to see AK47 on the bench. It may change.
Looking forward to see how fill in the rest of the roster. It needs more shooters.

Should Cousins start?

Open up the paint. Cousins in the high post. He can facilitate. He can play high low with Brand. The paint is more congested there with Dikembe. Harder for Brand to get space in the post to go to work. May make Brand more of a jump-shooter. Cousins will also open space up for Iggy. More of a PnR / PnP threat for Manu & Mookie.

My traditional response:  I'm letting the coach pick the starters, haha.

I kind of like the idea of playing the first four minutes with stifling defense.  Set the tone early. Be psychologically imposing.  Then bring in Boogie fresh.

Right now, the updated depth chart looks like:

Mutumbo / Cousins
Brand / Kirilenko
Iguodala
Ginobili / Reggie
Mookie / IT

But, there are a lot of interchangeable players there.

[Moranis]

I like my day today.  Probably reached a bit with Bowen, but was very happy to get a MVP in the 9th round

PG - Cheeks
SG - Petrovic, Hamilton
SF - Dantley, Bowen
PF - Pau, McGinnis
C - Amar'e, Issel

I am definitely playing to the interior strength and I do believe that even with more traditional bigs here, it will be very hard for teams to stop my bigs from scoring (all 4 of them can score and most were solid passers).  Then add in Dantley who could score at will against pretty much anyone and I think it will be hard to stop me from scoring.  Now defensively there are some holes, however most of the great defensive bigs were average to poor offensive players, making that defensive side easier to deal with.  And by adding Bowen, I do have a guy that can come in and get a stop on the wing when needed along with Cheeks who is one of the better defensive PG's. 

Team is coming together nicely.  I think I should round it into form tomorrow as I have a couple of targets that should round out the bench.

[Who]

Cleveland (Roy H.):
PG:  Mookie Blaylock
SG: Manu Ginobili
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Elton Brand / Andrei Kirilenko
C:  Dikembe Mutombo / DeMarcus Cousins

Your front court is really scary. In pains me to see AK47 on the bench. It may change.
Looking forward to see how fill in the rest of the roster. It needs more shooters.

Should Cousins start?

Open up the paint. Cousins in the high post. He can facilitate. He can play high low with Brand. The paint is more congested there with Dikembe. Harder for Brand to get space in the post to go to work. May make Brand more of a jump-shooter. Cousins will also open space up for Iggy. More of a PnR / PnP threat for Manu & Mookie.

My traditional response:  I'm letting the coach pick the starters, haha.

I kind of like the idea of playing the first four minutes with stifling defense.  Set the tone early. Be psychologically imposing.  Then bring in Boogie fresh.

Right now, the updated depth chart looks like:

Mutumbo / Cousins
Brand / Kirilenko
Iguodala
Ginobili / Reggie
Mookie / IT

But, there are a lot of interchangeable players there.

Yeah, lot of interchangeable pieces. You could IT for Mookie. Or R Lewis for Iggy to get more offense on the floor.

That lineup with Reggie Lewis instead of Manu would be devastating defensively. The size and length on the wing. Deke in the paint. Mookie at PG. Wow.

[Who]

A: K Johnson, E Jones, B King, D Manning, A Mourning
B: K Johnson, E Jones, B King, V Baker, A Mourning

I am not sure which lineup I like more.

I like the Danny Manning lineup in terms of how it fits together as a unit and how it better plays 2023 type basketball. Manning was more what I had in mind for the PF position in between Alonzo and King and alongside KJ. More of a combo forward type. Skills of a SF in the body of a PF. That is what I was looking for.

Vin Baker feels like a better fit for matching up against the big bodies that are at the PF position in this league. I worry that he makes the paint too congested though. About 70% of his buckets came within 10 feet of the basket. He is a big body. Alonzo is a big body. King is a slasher who needs some space to drive into. KJ is better with space. PHX has a stretch four type in KJ's pre-Barkley years that enabled him. Although they started two low quality offensive guys before moving him there as the game went on. KJ got his either way. So maybe I am over-concerned there.

Fluidity was a good word. Mentioned in a post above. The fluidity is there with Manning. Not sure about Baker.

[theswitch]

Here are a few thoughts in reverse order since I didn't hit them all last time.

Washington (Kernewek):
PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Gilbert Arenas
SG: Alvin Robertson
SF: Glen Rice / Mark Aguirre
PF: Rasheed Wallace
C: Joakim Noah / Arvydas Sabonis

As others have mentioned, a really strong team! I love the combination of playmaking and scoring at the point guard and small forward positions with the defensive anchors in Robertson, Wallace, and Noah. Put Robertson on the toughest assignment and have Wallace and Noah clean it up. The more I think about it, the more I think Rasheed is a near-perfect power forward for this exercise and he'd love playing alongside the rest of the crew -- Noah will remind him of Ben Wallace but with more passing / skill, Hardaway and Arenas will free him up, as will Rice's spacing. I have two questions: (i) whether Noah is good enough offensively to justify being a starter in this league and (ii) I suppose on that same thread, whether Sabonis should start or you want to double down on the defense.

I wonder if there's a trade somewhere where someone has a need for Arenas' skillset but is willing to help you upgrade at center.

Sacramento (Donoghus):
PG: Mark Price / Rajon Rondo
SG: Mitch Richmond / Andrew Toney
SF: Shawn Marion / Michael Finley
PF: Maurice Lucas / Zach Randolph
C: Vlade Divac

This is a nice team! Vlade has gotten a lot of love in this game and for good reason -- I think he really ties in your team together to help give Lucas, Marion, Richmond an extra injection of passing. Price - Richmond - Marion is a really nice trio too. Price is as close to Nash as you'll get for Marion, and Richmond fits in well with that style too (TMC). The bench is cool and interesting. Rondo is something different. Toney and Finley are fearsome. Z-Bo will come beat you up after you're starting to wear you down. I like that you can go smaller with Marion at the 4. I wonder in that situation who the right center is, but it's a fun look regardless. Cool team.

Cleveland (Roy H.):
PG:  Mookie Blaylock / Isaiah Thomas
SG: Manu Ginobili / Reggie Lewis
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Elton Brand / Andrei Kirilenko
C:  Dikembe Mutombo / DeMarcus Cousins

Maybe my favorite team because of the versatility it has. You can start Cousins or Mutombo and go big as you have in your lineup, or even bigger with Lewis starting and even Manu playing point guard. You can go smaller with Brand at center, Kirilenko at power forward and not lose anything defensively. That's really nice. This is a good example of a team with a surplus of big men who might be a good trading partner for Washington had IT4 not been picked. And nobody here is going to dock you for that pick!

If I'm going to nitpick, it's going to be on modern spacing. Blaylock could shoot okay but scoring isn't what he's there for. Manu yes. Iguodala...if you squint and get lucky? Very volatile. Not Brand, Kirilenko, Mutombo, Cousins. IT4 yes. Reggie Lewis not really. So if you get into more of a run-and-gun situation, can you keep up? Or do you have to rely on slugging it out?

Brooklyn (Moranis):
PG: Maurice Cheeks
SG: Drazen Petrovic / Rip Hamilton
SF: Adrian Dantley / Bruce Bowen
PF: Amare Stoudemire / George McGinnis
C: Pau Gasol / Dan Issel

Hamilton, Bowen, McGinnis were really nice picks to shore up the defense and give you versatility. I like Cheeks in this form with his defense, Petrovic obviously the shooting. Dantley, Amare, Gasol to beat you up. I'm still interested in hearing how you plan to play Dantley, Amare, Gasol together and create enough space for them to thrive. That's the big elephant you've been trying to unlock and I think it's still somewhat there. Petrovic helps with the spacing for sure. I wonder if there's a point guard you can still find who is more of a playmaker and can help unlock some of that for Amare.

I.e., to me it feels like Issel and his shooting is a great pair for Amare but they need a point guard to unlock it. Cheeks and Gasol are a terrific duo. But do Amare and Pau work together? Or do they need to alternate with some of the other guys to make it work? I'm just curious for how you think about it. So much talent here.

Orlando Magic (gouki88):
PG: Terry Porter / Steve Francis
SG: Joe Dumars / Jeff Hornacek
SF: Brandon Roy / Walter Davis
PF: Chris Webber / Terry Cummings
C: Ralph Sampson / Andrew Bogut

A really nice team. I'm a little meh on Franchise but Porter, Dumars, Hornacek is a ton of optionality and defense in the backcourt. The combo guards in this game are really fun and Porter and Dumars are two of the best. Roy and Webber is one of my favorite forward pairings in the game -- so much talent and grace between those two. Davis is a killer. I stand by what I said that Webber is more fun in this format as a center and I agree with Who that starting TC at power forward and Webber at center unlocks a dynamic that other teams can't replicate easily without losing very much. Maybe then you find a swing type to give a little more backup at power forward. Anyways, just an idea. But it's a cool team.

I'll work on some of the others tomorrow!

[theswitch]

A: K Johnson, E Jones, B King, D Manning, A Mourning
B: K Johnson, E Jones, B King, V Baker, A Mourning

I am not sure which lineup I like more.

I like the Danny Manning lineup in terms of how it fits together as a unit and how it better plays 2023 type basketball. Manning was more what I had in mind for the PF position in between Alonzo and King and alongside KJ. More of a combo forward type. Skills of a SF in the body of a PF. That is what I was looking for.

Vin Baker feels like a better fit for matching up against the big bodies that are at the PF position in this league. I worry that he makes the paint too congested though. About 70% of his buckets came within 10 feet of the basket. He is a big body. Alonzo is a big body. King is a slasher who needs some space to drive into. KJ is better with space. PHX has a stretch four type in KJ's pre-Barkley years that enabled him. Although they started two low quality offensive guys before moving him there as the game went on. KJ got his either way. So maybe I am over-concerned there.

Fluidity was a good word. Mentioned in a post above. The fluidity is there with Manning. Not sure about Baker.

I personally would lean heavily towards the first option given the rest of your guys. You can use that extra facilitation and ball movement. And I remember Manning having a pretty strong defensive orientation as well? Either way I think you have Mourning there to help clean it up. I'd even lean towards Sikma over Baker for the floor spacing. Sikma grew up as more of a wing until his body outgrew it, so I think he'd be comfortable in that role.