Author Topic: Jabari Bird arrested  (Read 45682 times)

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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #300 on: September 16, 2018, 02:56:01 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .


Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.
The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.
But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen
they keep skipping that fact for some convenient reason

Nobody "keeps skipping" that.  It's because it's not really true.  For instance, as linked above, rage can lead to seizures.  Is it a criminal defense to a severe assault that "I got really, really angry"?
Just checked your link, it tells the exact opposite conclusion
"In the past, rage attacks were thought to be related to epilepsy or Tourette syndrome. This is now understood to be false"
"In very rare cases, limbic seizures can be linked to out-of-control behavior. However, this is uncommon"

So..
1.rage attack only very rarely cause limbic seizures, no lose of conscious
2.If bird did pass out after seizure, it most likely is a Generalized seizure of Epilepsy which definitely related to an unhealthy brain

I'm no expert in neuro-psyso area but it seems pretty clear to me, correct me if i'm wrong

You're making some pretty big leaps there that aren't necessarily accurate.

Again, these are non-Epileptic seizures.  Where are you hearing that only epileptic seizures can result in loss of consciousness?  That's just not true.  And non-epileptic seizures aren't as rare as you're suggesting.  Looking up PNES, for instance.

And keep in mind, these are "seizure-like" symptoms, not necessarily actual seizures.





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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #301 on: September 16, 2018, 07:35:36 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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if the Celtics release Jabari before his criminal case is resolved does that in any way prejudice his defense?

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #302 on: September 16, 2018, 07:49:22 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I haven't read this whole thread, but just in case it hasn't been posted, here's a thorough analysis from an attorney

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/13/jabari-bird-celtics-domestic-violence-assault-charges-arrest

WOW what a comprehensive analysis. Good Job by the author.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #303 on: September 16, 2018, 08:16:27 PM »

Online Roy H.

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if the Celtics release Jabari before his criminal case is resolved does that in any way prejudice his defense?

Perhaps to some small degree with certain jurors.  Certainly less so than the average defendant who committed these offenses, who would be sitting in a jail cell.


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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #304 on: September 16, 2018, 10:58:34 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I don't know if we really know the facts in this incident to make a proper judgment. We know that Bird was treated in a hospital, so he must have been injured. We don't know much about his girlfriend, though it sounds like she was injured, too. The stuff about being dragged around the apartment, etc.. would need verification.

The media tends to rush to judgment in these cases without knowing the facts, so the public forms an early view which may or may not be accurate.

I would like to know what really happened before I make any judgment. As for the Celtics, unfortunately they are more beholden to the media and public relations. And so more influenced by news stories.

My impression is that in most of these high profile domestic incidents, the male is usually the target of the blame. That may be the case here, but the facts need to be known.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #305 on: September 16, 2018, 11:07:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't know if we really know the facts in this incident to make a proper judgment. We know that Bird was treated in a hospital, so he must have been injured. We don't know much about his girlfriend, though it sounds like she was injured, too. The stuff about being dragged around the apartment, etc.. would need verification.

The media tends to rush to judgment in these cases without knowing the facts, so the public forms an early view which may or may not be accurate.

I would like to know what really happened before I make any judgment. As for the Celtics, unfortunately they are more beholden to the media and public relations. And so more influenced by news stories.

My impression is that in most of these high profile domestic incidents, the male is usually the target of the blame. That may be the case here, but the facts need to be known.
Bird texted his girlfriend that he would kill he himself if she didn't come back to the apartment. With verification, that would most likely put him into a psychological evaluation and a suicide watch. Just because he was in a hospital doesn't mean he was injured. At his arraignment he showed no outward signs of injury.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #306 on: September 17, 2018, 06:30:43 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I don't know if we really know the facts in this incident to make a proper judgment. We know that Bird was treated in a hospital, so he must have been injured. We don't know much about his girlfriend, though it sounds like she was injured, too. The stuff about being dragged around the apartment, etc.. would need verification.

The media tends to rush to judgment in these cases without knowing the facts, so the public forms an early view which may or may not be accurate.

I would like to know what really happened before I make any judgment. As for the Celtics, unfortunately they are more beholden to the media and public relations. And so more influenced by news stories.

My impression is that in most of these high profile domestic incidents, the male is usually the target of the blame. That may be the case here, but the facts need to be known.
Bird texted his girlfriend that he would kill he himself if she didn't come back to the apartment. With verification, that would most likely put him into a psychological evaluation and a suicide watch. Just because he was in a hospital doesn't mean he was injured. At his arraignment he showed no outward signs of injury.

Meanwhile, both the police and a doctor cerified the victim’s injuries, including cuts, extensive bruising, internal bleeding and injury to one eye.

Facts are out ther for those who want to listen to them.


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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #307 on: September 17, 2018, 06:59:26 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Yeah, if he inflicted those injuries on his girlfriend, good riddance.   I liked his as a player, talk about blowing it...

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #308 on: September 17, 2018, 01:39:41 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Classic abuser line 'I'll kill myself if you leave!'


I don't know all that went down but that line doesn't sway me in his favor, if that's part of his mental health excuse. I can't count the number of times I have heard of an abuser using that tactic though.
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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #309 on: September 17, 2018, 02:33:43 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Bird will not make team. Ainge will find a veteran cut and sign them. Crawford is rumored to want to play here too. We dcon't need Bird's headaches.
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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #310 on: September 18, 2018, 02:42:26 PM »

Offline gift

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So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #311 on: September 18, 2018, 03:13:24 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”

Maybe we can finally put this victim shaming nonsense to bed.


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Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #312 on: September 18, 2018, 03:50:48 PM »

Offline Hank Finkel

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You can only hope he can get the help he needs and can function normally in everyday life.  Basketball may or may not be in his future depending on the severity of his problems, not withstanding the crime he may be responsible for too.  It may be a long road back but hopefully things wil work out.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #313 on: September 18, 2018, 04:04:51 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Reply #314 on: September 18, 2018, 04:09:48 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Per ESPN

"A source told ESPN that Bird had been receiving treatment with the help of a Celtics doctor and that medication could have played a role in the alleged attack."

Yikes.  Not a good decade for the Celtics' medical staff.

My guess is that’s a pro-Jabari source.


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