Author Topic: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?  (Read 2199 times)

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Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« on: January 02, 2019, 10:16:04 AM »

Offline mef730

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Yes, I know that he said at the beginning of the year that he was going to resign in the summer of 2019. But what are the chances that he has second thoughts if we stay in the 4-6 range in the east. Does he decide to go somewhere else and either join or start a super-team?

I'm leaving the question open-ended on purpose: Feel free to throw in your own assumptions (e.g., we do/don't trade for AD, etc.).

Personally, I'm still on the side that he stays, with the idea that 2019-20 is what we thought 2018-19 would be, and uncertainty as to where he goes. But I've gotta think that, knowing what we know now, the chances of his leaving have risen.

Mike

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 10:40:18 AM »

Offline Silky

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I think he stays, but team needs to do something.

I dont think it is wise to hold everything on the chance that Davis becomes unhappy with the pelicans, declines a supermax or demands a trade.

I mean, the assets that team has are declining in value, not increasing.

Also, do I have to verify every single post on this board with typing the letters, and answering the 5 questions?

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 10:50:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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There has been a concern of mine for awhile that Irving will join up with someone in New York.  The pull of Durant has to be enticing for a player.  I still think he takes a 5 year max with Boston, but the more this team struggles, the more the allure of playing with a gold medal superstar like Durant has to grow for him.
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Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 10:50:30 AM »

Offline aefgogreen

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I think he stays because it's the best place for him. Despite our struggles, Boston is a good place to be.  Talented team, well coached and the potential to do something in the draft.   Leaving for NY would be a big risk and I can't see him going anywhere else.

 But I put very little stock in what he said before the season started.  If he decides to leave, he'll say he evaluated the situation and determined it was the best move for him.   And the story will be about him leaving, not what he said in the preseason.

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 11:01:00 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I think he stays. I think he’s seen enough of the organization to know that if things don’t work out Danny will make changes to build a team around him. It’s a longer term play he has in mind I think.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 11:11:01 AM »

Offline mef730

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I think he stays, but team needs to do something.

I dont think it is wise to hold everything on the chance that Davis becomes unhappy with the pelicans, declines a supermax or demands a trade.

I mean, the assets that team has are declining in value, not increasing.

Also, do I have to verify every single post on this board with typing the letters, and answering the 5 questions?

Welcome aboard!

To answer your last question, no, not usually, but there may be a short period when you do because you're new.

Mike

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2019, 11:20:37 AM »

Online Who

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There has been a concern of mine for awhile that Irving will join up with someone in New York.  The pull of Durant has to be enticing for a player. 
Does NY have the cap space for 2 max deals?

I thought they onl had enough room for 1.

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 11:33:47 AM »

Offline Moranis

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There has been a concern of mine for awhile that Irving will join up with someone in New York.  The pull of Durant has to be enticing for a player. 
Does NY have the cap space for 2 max deals?

I thought they onl had enough room for 1.
Their only guaranteed contracts are Hardaway, Lee, Ntilikina, Knox, and Robinson, which total like 42 million.  They have the Zinger cap hold of 7.5 million.  The open roster holds are like 5 million.  So that puts them at like 55 million.  Even with a top 5 pick that puts them in the low 60 million range.  So with a 109 million cap, they'd have like 45-50 million, which gets them Durant's 38 million and gets them pretty close to a Hardaway salary dump away from Irving's 33 million.  After they sign Durant and Irving, they re-sign Porzingis.  And I think they could find a taker for Hardaway pretty easily as Hardaway has been pretty good (they can pretty easily add a future 1st or two if needed).  Add some veteran minimum types and they have a pretty decent team with the right mix of veterans and young guys. 

Edit: I forgot about Noah's cap hold.  They would also have to dump Lee, that makes it a bit more challenging, but it is still doable.
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Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2019, 11:47:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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There has been a concern of mine for awhile that Irving will join up with someone in New York.  The pull of Durant has to be enticing for a player. 
Does NY have the cap space for 2 max deals?

I thought they onl had enough room for 1.
Their only guaranteed contracts are Hardaway, Lee, Ntilikina, Knox, and Robinson, which total like 42 million.  They have the Zinger cap hold of 7.5 million.  The open roster holds are like 5 million.  So that puts them at like 55 million.  Even with a top 5 pick that puts them in the low 60 million range.  So with a 109 million cap, they'd have like 45-50 million, which gets them Durant's 38 million and gets them pretty close to a Hardaway salary dump away from Irving's 33 million.  After they sign Durant and Irving, they re-sign Porzingis.  And I think they could find a taker for Hardaway pretty easily as Hardaway has been pretty good (they can pretty easily add a future 1st or two if needed).  Add some veteran minimum types and they have a pretty decent team with the right mix of veterans and young guys.

I think Zinger's caphold is more like 17 million from what I've seen.

Assuming they keep Burke and Vonleh's minimal caphold (3 million total), that puts them at 31 million of space without trading anyone, assuming they waive and stretch Thomas.

They'd have to trade both Lee (13) and Hardaway (18) to get close to space for two max contracts, but that still wouldn't be enough for Durant and Irving's max contracts.

And all Irving and Durant would have is Knox, Robinson, Frankie, and Zinger with vet role players. Zinger might never be healthy again and he doesn't always make the right unselfish basketball plays -- something both Durant and Irving value highly. I'm not sure the rest are going to be starters in league, and they're certainly not ready to contribute to winning championships.

When the Knicks stretched Noah, it was a white flag showing they didn't think they could get two max guys in 2019. That 6 million makes a huge difference. They could have traded Noah with their 2019 first (and probably another future first) to the Kings for Koufus' expiring contract and another small contract. That would have opened up enough space for two max contracts in 2019, but by stretching Noah, they made that almost impossible.

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2019, 11:54:36 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I think he stays. I think he’s seen enough of the organization to know that if things don’t work out Danny will make changes to build a team around him. It’s a longer term play he has in mind I think.

TP!  I'm sure Kyrie has faith in ownership and Danny to make the right moves going forward.  He's not just looking at the next year or two.  I envision a scenario where he hopes to win a title as the bonafide leader of the team in the next two or three years.  After that I think he would like to ease up on his overall usage once Tatum and the remaining core enter their prime.

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 11:57:46 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think he's staying regardless --- but the deal he signs might not be as long as we'd like.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 11:59:43 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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There has been a concern of mine for awhile that Irving will join up with someone in New York.  The pull of Durant has to be enticing for a player. 
Does NY have the cap space for 2 max deals?

I thought they onl had enough room for 1.
Their only guaranteed contracts are Hardaway, Lee, Ntilikina, Knox, and Robinson, which total like 42 million.  They have the Zinger cap hold of 7.5 million.  The open roster holds are like 5 million.  So that puts them at like 55 million.  Even with a top 5 pick that puts them in the low 60 million range.  So with a 109 million cap, they'd have like 45-50 million, which gets them Durant's 38 million and gets them pretty close to a Hardaway salary dump away from Irving's 33 million.  After they sign Durant and Irving, they re-sign Porzingis.  And I think they could find a taker for Hardaway pretty easily as Hardaway has been pretty good (they can pretty easily add a future 1st or two if needed).  Add some veteran minimum types and they have a pretty decent team with the right mix of veterans and young guys.

I think Zinger's caphold is more like 17 million from what I've seen.

Assuming they keep Burke and Vonleh's minimal caphold (3 million total), that puts them at 31 million of space without trading anyone, assuming they waive and stretch Thomas.

They'd have to trade both Lee (13) and Hardaway (18) to get close to space for two max contracts, but that still wouldn't be enough for Durant and Irving's max contracts.

And all Irving and Durant would have is Knox, Robinson, Frankie, and Zinger with vet role players. Zinger might never be healthy again and he doesn't always make the right unselfish basketball plays -- something both Durant and Irving value highly. I'm not sure the rest are going to be starters in league, and they're certainly not ready to contribute to winning championships.

When the Knicks stretched Noah, it was a white flag showing they didn't think they could get two max guys in 2019. That 6 million makes a huge difference. They could have traded Noah with their 2019 first (and probably another future first) to the Kings for Koufus' expiring contract and another small contract. That would have opened up enough space for two max contracts in 2019, but by stretching Noah, they made that almost impossible.

This is correct.   Kristaps is making ~ $5.7 mil this year, and will have a cap hold of 300% of that salary this summer (~ $17 mil).

NY has a ton of work to do to make enough cap room for two max free agents. It's not going to happen.

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2019, 12:00:23 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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He stays.  Boston no matter if they do not reach their goal in the playoffs is the best situation for him.  It's his team and he has a lot of input on how that will look.  He can make more money in Boston then anywhere else.  He is guaranteed to play on a championship team then anywhere else and the talent they have is better the 90% of the teams in the league.  I still have faith they will figure it out come playoff time. 

Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2019, 12:09:56 PM »

Offline Moranis

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There has been a concern of mine for awhile that Irving will join up with someone in New York.  The pull of Durant has to be enticing for a player. 
Does NY have the cap space for 2 max deals?

I thought they onl had enough room for 1.
Their only guaranteed contracts are Hardaway, Lee, Ntilikina, Knox, and Robinson, which total like 42 million.  They have the Zinger cap hold of 7.5 million.  The open roster holds are like 5 million.  So that puts them at like 55 million.  Even with a top 5 pick that puts them in the low 60 million range.  So with a 109 million cap, they'd have like 45-50 million, which gets them Durant's 38 million and gets them pretty close to a Hardaway salary dump away from Irving's 33 million.  After they sign Durant and Irving, they re-sign Porzingis.  And I think they could find a taker for Hardaway pretty easily as Hardaway has been pretty good (they can pretty easily add a future 1st or two if needed).  Add some veteran minimum types and they have a pretty decent team with the right mix of veterans and young guys.

I think Zinger's caphold is more like 17 million from what I've seen.

Assuming they keep Burke and Vonleh's minimal caphold (3 million total), that puts them at 31 million of space without trading anyone, assuming they waive and stretch Thomas.

They'd have to trade both Lee (13) and Hardaway (18) to get close to space for two max contracts, but that still wouldn't be enough for Durant and Irving's max contracts.

And all Irving and Durant would have is Knox, Robinson, Frankie, and Zinger with vet role players. Zinger might never be healthy again and he doesn't always make the right unselfish basketball plays -- something both Durant and Irving value highly. I'm not sure the rest are going to be starters in league, and they're certainly not ready to contribute to winning championships.

When the Knicks stretched Noah, it was a white flag showing they didn't think they could get two max guys in 2019. That 6 million makes a huge difference. They could have traded Noah with their 2019 first (and probably another future first) to the Kings for Koufus' expiring contract and another small contract. That would have opened up enough space for two max contracts in 2019, but by stretching Noah, they made that almost impossible.

This is correct.   Kristaps is making ~ $5.7 mil this year, and will have a cap hold of 300% of that salary this summer (~ $17 mil).

NY has a ton of work to do to make enough cap room for two max free agents. It's not going to happen.
Thanks.  I used spotrac which showed his hold at 7.5. 

So that leaves Brooklyn as a real shot at 2 max contracts especially if Crabbe opts out (though I'm not sure why he would).  Along with the Clippers and then a bunch of crap teams like the Hawks, Bulls, etc.
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Re: Does Kyrie Leave in The Summer If We Don't Improve?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2019, 12:21:58 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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He doesnt leave on his own accord but that doesnt mean he may not be part of a sign and trade at some point. This team is stacked and has room to get much more talent through the draft. The future is very, very bright even if it's a bit murky at the moment.

Hayward will return to form even though it may not look that way now. Williams will be an impact player in the playoffs and if we dont make a trade and land a quality player we will draft at least two in the next 3 years. Where can Kyrie go that his future will look any better then it does here?