Which Bigs Do You Like in this Draft?

[konkmv]

bol and reid

[mmmmm]

Bol Bol.

With three 1st round picks in a perceived weak draft, swing for a home run. Kid is lengthy, and mobile and is skilled.

Also, his name is funny for me, so he's entertaining. (Bol Bol is literally translated as pubic hair in Tagalog. I know, immature, but still)

just like Kristap his ability to add strength is a concern

Its not like he can play SG and avoid contact

Porzingis' lack of strength has not stopped him from being an effective defensive player. They said the same thing with Rudy Gobert. If he develop properly, it should not hinder Bol Bol as well. There's more to playing defense than just strength.

Manute was a rail, and there is no signs that Bol will ever NOT be a rail either.

7foot3 ad 208lbs.

That is ridiculous.

there are so many 6foot5 guards who already carry more weight on their frames.

Regardless of being a 'rail', Manute Bol was an excellent defender.   So what if big centers could body him up?  They still couldn't shoot over him.  That's what kept him in the NBA for a decade.  He led the NBA in block percentage 5 times during that span!   His 'weakness' that kept him from being a star was that he had almost zero offensive game. 

His son does not have that weakness.  He was raised playing basketball and has a much more polished offensive game that his father could never dream of having.  And in the modern game there are just fewer and fewer big bruising post-up players anyway. 

If Bol slips to one of our first two picks, I would definitely take a chance on him.  I agree with the notion that in this draft, with a couple of top 20 picks we might as well swing for the fences.

Well comparing his playing ability to his fathers is nit a good comparison becasr the game is much different.

And back them Manute was dominated by the centersvin the league. Yeah he got some blocks but he didnt stop anybody. His defensive ratings were mediocre at best.

There is a reason he rarely started and played few minutes as well. His body couldnt take it. He was slow, plodding, weak.

Manute Bol's defensive ratings were consistently 4-5 points better than league average through most of his career.  That's not 'mediocre'.  That's excellent.

His career DRtg of 103 was earned during an era when league average was typically just over 108 points per 100.  During his career the lowest league average dropped was to 106.3 and that was near the very tail end of his career when he was barely playing.   In no other year of his career was league average below 107.2 and most years it was well above 108.

It is true that Manute Bol did not play a lot of minutes.  But that was largely because he was offensively terrible and thus not suitable to start.  However, he was more durable than you are giving him credit.  He played between 71-82 games for 7 straight seasons.

Way too early to tell whether his son will be durable or not.

Look at average for centers.
He came off bemch amd played limited minutes

From 1986-1995 (the span of Manute's career), there were 52 players listed as centers who played at least 300 games and at least 5000 minutes (Bol played 624 games & 11698 minutes). 

The top 10 defensive ratings among this group were:

 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Manute Bol       103
 7. Wayne Cooper     103
 8. Vlade Divac      103
 9. Bill Laimbeer    103
10. Tree Rollins     103


You may recognize some of those names.

The 'average' DRtg among all Centers during this period was about 107.

How convenient you listed him as as the top rated amoung the tied with players.

So coming off the bench against bench player manute was middle of the pack ish.

He blocked shots and could rebound. I will give him that.

He got bullied and couldnt keep up with players



also, he cracked 20 minutes per game once twice in his career.

He's listed first among the 5 players tied at 103 because "Bol" is alphabetically first among those 5 players.  That's how basketball-reference.com sorted them by default.

Those 5 players tied at 103 are not "middle of the pack".   The 10 players listed are the top 10 players by rating. The next 5 players tied for #11 with a 104 ranking.   The "middle of the pack" is way down around a DRtg of 107-108.

Here, to make you feel better, I'll manually re-order the listing:


 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Wayne Cooper     103
 7. Vlade Divac      103
 8. Bill Laimbeer    103
 9. Tree Rollins     103
10. Manute Bol       103


This doesn't change the facts and it doesn't help your assertion.

Bol was also ranked first in Defensive Box Plus Minus among all these players.  And yes, also in block% and block rate.

He played 624 games and nearly 12000 minutes.  That's a pretty large sample size.  Clearly his coaches found reason to keep putting him out there (despite his horrible offense).   And when he was on the floor, his team's defense was measurably and dramatically improved.  These are measured facts.

Do you have any actual facts or real argument to support your assertion?   Or should we just believe you because you said so?

[Sophomore]

I'm realizing something about my own reaction to Bol. Part of the reason I don't like him for the Cs is that I'm worried about his potential flaws - will he get injured or pushed around, will he be too slight to defend opposing bigs.  But another part of it - which is about sports fandom rather than calculating whether he'd help us win - is that I'm not sure I'd like watching him play. Where his skills are being huge on D and camping out on the three point line on offense to lob unblockable threes. I don't enjoy watching players like Boban and Gobert - guys so big and (relatively) lumbering. Add to that shooting even more threes than we already do? Meh.

I can't defend this from a w/l perspective, and maybe I gotta broaden my tastes. Just about every NBA player is an incredible outlier on one or more physical characteristic. But the lumbering big man - who can touch the rim without jumping! - for some reason I've especially never enjoyed watching.

[Edit: yes, I know, he's probably faster than I am or most any normal person. But next to a standard NBA forward or even most centers, he's pretty slow, especially laterally.]

[mmmmm]

The above is in response to the (wrong) assertion that Manute Bol was not a good defensive player.   In fact, he was a very, very good defensive player.   (And a horribly inept offensive player.). My responses above were concerning Manute and not really about his son.

He was good at blocked shots and had elite size but he was not good at D other than those two things.   He did not move well, could be pushed around and lacked stamina.

If you say so.   Nevertheless, his team's defense was improved by him being on the floor.   Scoreboard doesn't lie.

Here's an assertion that we probably all agree on:  Manute was both subjectively and measurably awful on offense.   His career FG% was an absolute horror show at 40% despite him being tall enough to practically dunk without leaping.  His career OBPM is _negative_ and indeed was negative every year of his career!!!   His TOV% was never below 15.8% and broke 20% multiple times in his career -- so bad that his actual turnover _rates_ were low because his teammates would never pass to him!!!!  Having him on the floor basically meant the other team could almost play 5-on-4 defense against Bol's teammate's offense.

You can imagine, no coach in his right mind would want to put a player like that on the floor if he had any sort of choice, right?   Especially if he had nothing else that was very valuable to offer, right?

Yet for 8 straight seasons, his coaches kept putting him out there on the floor for a steady 15-20 mpg, in 71-82 games each year.   I wonder why they kept doing that?

[tonydelk]

I'm realizing something about my own reaction to Bol. Part of the reason I don't like him for the Cs is that I'm worried about his potential flaws - will he get injured or pushed around, will he be too slight to defend opposing bigs.  But another part of it - which is about sports fandom rather than calculating whether he'd help us win - is that I'm not sure I'd like watching him play. Where his skills are being huge on D and camping out on the three point line on offense to lob unblockable threes. I don't enjoy watching players like Boban and Gobert - guys so big and (relatively) lumbering. Add to that shooting even more threes than we already do? Meh.

I can't defend this from a w/l perspective, and maybe I gotta broaden my tastes. Just about every NBA player is an incredible outlier on one or more physical characteristic. But the lumbering big man - who can touch the rim without jumping! - for some reason I've especially never enjoyed watching.

[Edit: yes, I know, he's probably faster than I am or most any normal person. But next to a standard NBA forward or even most centers, he's pretty slow, especially laterally.]

I get this.  My new favorite Big and a guy I wish the C's had is John Collins from Atlanta.  Dude is a beast.  Active, rebounds, can play in the post, hit outside shots.  I want the C's to have a Big that teams fear going inside on and a guy who is relentless rebounding the ball.  Collins is the mold I wish the C's had a big in.  You can say they have Horford but Al isn't the rebounder Collins is and Collins is young versus Al on the back end of his career.   Horford and Collins would be a dynamic duo at the Big positions. 

[mmmmm]

I'm realizing something about my own reaction to Bol. Part of the reason I don't like him for the Cs is that I'm worried about his potential flaws - will he get injured or pushed around, will he be too slight to defend opposing bigs.  But another part of it - which is about sports fandom rather than calculating whether he'd help us win - is that I'm not sure I'd like watching him play. Where his skills are being huge on D and camping out on the three point line on offense to lob unblockable threes. I don't enjoy watching players like Boban and Gobert - guys so big and (relatively) lumbering. Add to that shooting even more threes than we already do? Meh.

I can't defend this from a w/l perspective, and maybe I gotta broaden my tastes. Just about every NBA player is an incredible outlier on one or more physical characteristic. But the lumbering big man - who can touch the rim without jumping! - for some reason I've especially never enjoyed watching.

[Edit: yes, I know, he's probably faster than I am or most any normal person. But next to a standard NBA forward or even most centers, he's pretty slow, especially laterally.]

I personally am only interested in Bol from a "We need more information about him before we rule him in or out" perspective.   The problem is sample size.  We only have 9 college games of data.   The data in those games is very positive (on both offense AND defense), and intriguing enough that he deserves a closer look.   But it's not enough to make me convinced he should be the guy we pick with any of our picks.

I'm going to have to trust Danny and his team to do the proper due diligence (private workouts, physical exams, review of scouting films, etc.) if they say, "Pass." then I trust their judgement.   If they decide to take him, then I'll trust that's because they have more information than we do that makes it worth the risk.

I just don't put a lot of stock in internet bloggers making absolute assertions one way or another based on no real data.   I don't mean to pick on you, but your assertions about how slow he is would be a lot more useful if we had draft combine agility test times on him.   Or if we had more in-game video samples that clearly demonstrated this.   But we don't have either.

[Csfan1984]

Bol's only issue is health.

He is an incredibly efficient scorer. He is not as athletic and strong as Giannis, but is a much better shooter than Giannis. Giannis' shooting weakness was really exposed by Raptors in the playoffs.

Think of Bol in terms of a longer Kevin Durant.  Of course I don't expect him to have that type of career, but his shooting touch is at that level.

Stop thinking of Bol as a center. That is not who he is.

He is far too slow to be anything else.

Ha will never stay in a game defending the perimeter, as he will collapse of exhaustion or foul out.

It's weird to me that we have posters claiming Bol isn't a center but Zion will be.  Bol is too slow to guard anyone including centers, and Zion is probably quick enough to guard 2's and 3's.

He's not slow.  He's frail, but not slow.

 

he is too slow to keep up with nba guards and small forwards.

He is too slow to keep up with alot of NBA power forwards as well.

how do you know? You haven't seen him against NBA players


The only reason Bol isn't a consensus top 3 pick is because of injury concern, not speed

no, there is also lacking of size and drive.

He would not be rated as top 3 in this draft, not a chance.


And bol could not keep up with guards on nobody teams in college, so by using some super complicated formula I deduced that he will not be able to keep up with NBA guards.

the formula is as follows.


Tomato can, unathletic, outside of the top 250 in college basketball nobodies <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< nba level talent.

so therefore

If Bols speed <<<<< Tomoato can, unathletic, outside of the top 250 college basketball nobodies

then Bols speed is <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Nba level talent

It's funny because from the little I have seen on Bol he is fast enough for PF and can use his length against SFs to make up for speed. Could probably do the same against guards on switches. The drive part is true because he does plod/jog a lot. When you see him on a break or make a move with the ball he has speed not blazing but enough of it. When you see him defend however you don't see him take a good stance or rotate with effort. It's as if he thought he was in HS and could block anyone last second. I'm sure with coaching and better commitment he will be a solid defender. My other thought was his foot was it a progessive problem that he played through then he found out it was broken or if it was broken all in one instance. If it's the latter we can see why he may have gone easy at times.

[Silky]

Bol Bol.

With three 1st round picks in a perceived weak draft, swing for a home run. Kid is lengthy, and mobile and is skilled.

Also, his name is funny for me, so he's entertaining. (Bol Bol is literally translated as pubic hair in Tagalog. I know, immature, but still)

just like Kristap his ability to add strength is a concern

Its not like he can play SG and avoid contact

Porzingis' lack of strength has not stopped him from being an effective defensive player. They said the same thing with Rudy Gobert. If he develop properly, it should not hinder Bol Bol as well. There's more to playing defense than just strength.

Manute was a rail, and there is no signs that Bol will ever NOT be a rail either.

7foot3 ad 208lbs.

That is ridiculous.

there are so many 6foot5 guards who already carry more weight on their frames.

Regardless of being a 'rail', Manute Bol was an excellent defender.   So what if big centers could body him up?  They still couldn't shoot over him.  That's what kept him in the NBA for a decade.  He led the NBA in block percentage 5 times during that span!   His 'weakness' that kept him from being a star was that he had almost zero offensive game. 

His son does not have that weakness.  He was raised playing basketball and has a much more polished offensive game that his father could never dream of having.  And in the modern game there are just fewer and fewer big bruising post-up players anyway. 

If Bol slips to one of our first two picks, I would definitely take a chance on him.  I agree with the notion that in this draft, with a couple of top 20 picks we might as well swing for the fences.

Well comparing his playing ability to his fathers is nit a good comparison becasr the game is much different.

And back them Manute was dominated by the centersvin the league. Yeah he got some blocks but he didnt stop anybody. His defensive ratings were mediocre at best.

There is a reason he rarely started and played few minutes as well. His body couldnt take it. He was slow, plodding, weak.

Manute Bol's defensive ratings were consistently 4-5 points better than league average through most of his career.  That's not 'mediocre'.  That's excellent.

His career DRtg of 103 was earned during an era when league average was typically just over 108 points per 100.  During his career the lowest league average dropped was to 106.3 and that was near the very tail end of his career when he was barely playing.   In no other year of his career was league average below 107.2 and most years it was well above 108.

It is true that Manute Bol did not play a lot of minutes.  But that was largely because he was offensively terrible and thus not suitable to start.  However, he was more durable than you are giving him credit.  He played between 71-82 games for 7 straight seasons.

Way too early to tell whether his son will be durable or not.

Look at average for centers.
He came off bemch amd played limited minutes

From 1986-1995 (the span of Manute's career), there were 52 players listed as centers who played at least 300 games and at least 5000 minutes (Bol played 624 games & 11698 minutes). 

The top 10 defensive ratings among this group were:

 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Manute Bol       103
 7. Wayne Cooper     103
 8. Vlade Divac      103
 9. Bill Laimbeer    103
10. Tree Rollins     103


You may recognize some of those names.

The 'average' DRtg among all Centers during this period was about 107.

How convenient you listed him as as the top rated amoung the tied with players.

So coming off the bench against bench player manute was middle of the pack ish.

He blocked shots and could rebound. I will give him that.

He got bullied and couldnt keep up with players



also, he cracked 20 minutes per game once twice in his career.

He's listed first among the 5 players tied at 103 because "Bol" is alphabetically first among those 5 players.  That's how basketball-reference.com sorted them by default.

Those 5 players tied at 103 are not "middle of the pack".   The 10 players listed are the top 10 players by rating. The next 5 players tied for #11 with a 104 ranking.   The "middle of the pack" is way down around a DRtg of 107-108.

Here, to make you feel better, I'll manually re-order the listing:


 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Wayne Cooper     103
 7. Vlade Divac      103
 8. Bill Laimbeer    103
 9. Tree Rollins     103
10. Manute Bol       103


This doesn't change the facts and it doesn't help your assertion.

Bol was also ranked first in Defensive Box Plus Minus among all these players.  And yes, also in block% and block rate.

He played 624 games and nearly 12000 minutes.  That's a pretty large sample size.  Clearly his coaches found reason to keep putting him out there (despite his horrible offense).   And when he was on the floor, his team's defense was measurably and dramatically improved.  These are measured facts.

Do you have any actual facts or real argument to support your assertion?   Or should we just believe you because you said so?

teams defense was not measurably better with him on the court. If it was he would have played more than 20 minutes per game.

http://bkref.com/tiny/BbkPY

and using your arbitrarily dictated variables....
he comes in, on a career basis, rated with a 104.
The middle of the pack ratings for centers, using the same query was 106

that is in that 8-12th range out of 49 players. That is closer to mediocre than not.

And out of that selection Bol started only 73 games, 47th out of 49 players
Played 32 out of 49 in total minutes (6 players behind him played fewer years during the period and played more minutes in the same amount of seasons as Bol)


And to dissect it a little further Bol had 1 good season. His rookie year.
He actually started 60 games and played 26 minutes a game and had a defensive rating of 99. Excellent season.

after that his minutes per game only ever got over 20 per game once.
He only started a TOTAL of 73 games over 9 season.
His value over replacement player was only once over 1.
And after his 3rd season, his defense dropped off, after that first season his defense dropped.


and all the while it was against inferior bench competition, not even starters.


He did make all nba defensive 2nd team in that rookie year though.


Note: In the Playoffs he had a 109 defensive rating as well, and Blocks heavily influence defensive rating



But he blocked shots, so that must make him a great defensive player!!!

He was a circus sideshow at the time, people wanted to see him and mugsy on the court together. But yeah, he blocked shots.

I will give him credit, he just might be the greatest NBA players EVER to block shots by just standing straight up and down.

I mean, no one stood better than Manute, the way he raised those arms in the air and stood....phenomenal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaglbqnWavw

[Silky]

And here is his speedy Bol Bol defending the wing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUrp-5kE_f8

[gouki88]

And here is his speedy Bol Bol defending the wing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUrp-5kE_f8

This kind of stuff is what I mean when I keep saying weak motor. He has very little passion, and takes no pride in stopping people from scoring it seems

[mmmmm]

Bol Bol.

With three 1st round picks in a perceived weak draft, swing for a home run. Kid is lengthy, and mobile and is skilled.

Also, his name is funny for me, so he's entertaining. (Bol Bol is literally translated as pubic hair in Tagalog. I know, immature, but still)

just like Kristap his ability to add strength is a concern

Its not like he can play SG and avoid contact

Porzingis' lack of strength has not stopped him from being an effective defensive player. They said the same thing with Rudy Gobert. If he develop properly, it should not hinder Bol Bol as well. There's more to playing defense than just strength.

Manute was a rail, and there is no signs that Bol will ever NOT be a rail either.

7foot3 ad 208lbs.

That is ridiculous.

there are so many 6foot5 guards who already carry more weight on their frames.

Regardless of being a 'rail', Manute Bol was an excellent defender.   So what if big centers could body him up?  They still couldn't shoot over him.  That's what kept him in the NBA for a decade.  He led the NBA in block percentage 5 times during that span!   His 'weakness' that kept him from being a star was that he had almost zero offensive game. 

His son does not have that weakness.  He was raised playing basketball and has a much more polished offensive game that his father could never dream of having.  And in the modern game there are just fewer and fewer big bruising post-up players anyway. 

If Bol slips to one of our first two picks, I would definitely take a chance on him.  I agree with the notion that in this draft, with a couple of top 20 picks we might as well swing for the fences.

Well comparing his playing ability to his fathers is nit a good comparison becasr the game is much different.

And back them Manute was dominated by the centersvin the league. Yeah he got some blocks but he didnt stop anybody. His defensive ratings were mediocre at best.

There is a reason he rarely started and played few minutes as well. His body couldnt take it. He was slow, plodding, weak.

Manute Bol's defensive ratings were consistently 4-5 points better than league average through most of his career.  That's not 'mediocre'.  That's excellent.

His career DRtg of 103 was earned during an era when league average was typically just over 108 points per 100.  During his career the lowest league average dropped was to 106.3 and that was near the very tail end of his career when he was barely playing.   In no other year of his career was league average below 107.2 and most years it was well above 108.

It is true that Manute Bol did not play a lot of minutes.  But that was largely because he was offensively terrible and thus not suitable to start.  However, he was more durable than you are giving him credit.  He played between 71-82 games for 7 straight seasons.

Way too early to tell whether his son will be durable or not.

Look at average for centers.
He came off bemch amd played limited minutes

From 1986-1995 (the span of Manute's career), there were 52 players listed as centers who played at least 300 games and at least 5000 minutes (Bol played 624 games & 11698 minutes). 

The top 10 defensive ratings among this group were:

 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Manute Bol       103
 7. Wayne Cooper     103
 8. Vlade Divac      103
 9. Bill Laimbeer    103
10. Tree Rollins     103


You may recognize some of those names.

The 'average' DRtg among all Centers during this period was about 107.

How convenient you listed him as as the top rated amoung the tied with players.

So coming off the bench against bench player manute was middle of the pack ish.

He blocked shots and could rebound. I will give him that.

He got bullied and couldnt keep up with players



also, he cracked 20 minutes per game once twice in his career.

He's listed first among the 5 players tied at 103 because "Bol" is alphabetically first among those 5 players.  That's how basketball-reference.com sorted them by default.

Those 5 players tied at 103 are not "middle of the pack".   The 10 players listed are the top 10 players by rating. The next 5 players tied for #11 with a 104 ranking.   The "middle of the pack" is way down around a DRtg of 107-108.

Here, to make you feel better, I'll manually re-order the listing:


 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Wayne Cooper     103
 7. Vlade Divac      103
 8. Bill Laimbeer    103
 9. Tree Rollins     103
10. Manute Bol       103


This doesn't change the facts and it doesn't help your assertion.

Bol was also ranked first in Defensive Box Plus Minus among all these players.  And yes, also in block% and block rate.

He played 624 games and nearly 12000 minutes.  That's a pretty large sample size.  Clearly his coaches found reason to keep putting him out there (despite his horrible offense).   And when he was on the floor, his team's defense was measurably and dramatically improved.  These are measured facts.

Do you have any actual facts or real argument to support your assertion?   Or should we just believe you because you said so?

teams defense was not measurably better with him on the court. If it was he would have played more than 20 minutes per game.

http://bkref.com/tiny/BbkPY

and using your arbitrarily dictated variables....
he comes in, on a career basis, rated with a 104.
The middle of the pack ratings for centers, using the same query was 106

You literally just created a query that dropped 80 games and 2090 minutes (his whole rookie season) for Manute.  His career DRtg is 103, not 104.

Taking the median from your list is not the correct 'average' for centers because the sample excludes all the minutes played by centers who didn't make the thresholds for the list.   The real mean DRtg is, as I've said, right around ~108 during his career.

And to dissect it a little further Bol had 1 good season. His rookie year.
He actually started 60 games and played 26 minutes a game and had a defensive rating of 99. Excellent season.

yet you forgot to include that season in your results up above.

after that his minutes per game only ever got over 20 per game once.

We've been over this.  He was too awful on offense to be a starter.  That says nothing about his defense.

His DRtg rose in the middle of his career because he was on a crappy defensive team at GSW.  Of all the rotation players on that team he had by far the lowest DRtg.  In his 'worst' season when his DRtg was 108, the Warriors had a team DRtg of 112.6, (2nd worst in the NBA).   So yeah, when he was on the floor, that team was far better on defense.   They just would then suck on offense.

Jeezus, man.   Give it up.  Manute Bol was not a great basketball player and couldn't get starter minutes because he was just horrific on offense.   But he was definitely, measurably and visibly to anyone who actually watched him play, a very good defender.  Opposing teams measurably scored worse against him than against league average defense and than against his own team when he was on the bench.  By definition, that means he was good on defense.   That's the only thing that kept him on teams long after 'the freak show' novelty should have worn off.   I don't know why you are holding on to this ridiculous assertion of yours.

This is a complete deviation from the thread topic.  I'm done with responding on this.

[mmmmm]

And here is his speedy Bol Bol defending the wing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUrp-5kE_f8

That looked more like just plain bad positioning rather than slowness.   Closing up way too much on the ball handler in all three examples and getting caught flat footed.

[liam]

I'm glad I'm not selecting these picks but I would go with Isaiah Roby at 20 and Tacko Fall at 22. Swing for the fences....

[ETNCeltics]

You aren't going to have the 7'2 Bol defending anyone on the wing.

The issue with him is his size/weight. I don't think he'll ever become a rotation player with that body. Wish him well and hope he proves me wrong, but if he gets paid I hope it's not on the Celts' dime.

[Silky]

Bol Bol.

With three 1st round picks in a perceived weak draft, swing for a home run. Kid is lengthy, and mobile and is skilled.

Also, his name is funny for me, so he's entertaining. (Bol Bol is literally translated as pubic hair in Tagalog. I know, immature, but still)

just like Kristap his ability to add strength is a concern

Its not like he can play SG and avoid contact

Porzingis' lack of strength has not stopped him from being an effective defensive player. They said the same thing with Rudy Gobert. If he develop properly, it should not hinder Bol Bol as well. There's more to playing defense than just strength.

Manute was a rail, and there is no signs that Bol will ever NOT be a rail either.

7foot3 ad 208lbs.

That is ridiculous.

there are so many 6foot5 guards who already carry more weight on their frames.

Regardless of being a 'rail', Manute Bol was an excellent defender.   So what if big centers could body him up?  They still couldn't shoot over him.  That's what kept him in the NBA for a decade.  He led the NBA in block percentage 5 times during that span!   His 'weakness' that kept him from being a star was that he had almost zero offensive game. 

His son does not have that weakness.  He was raised playing basketball and has a much more polished offensive game that his father could never dream of having.  And in the modern game there are just fewer and fewer big bruising post-up players anyway. 

If Bol slips to one of our first two picks, I would definitely take a chance on him.  I agree with the notion that in this draft, with a couple of top 20 picks we might as well swing for the fences.

Well comparing his playing ability to his fathers is nit a good comparison becasr the game is much different.

And back them Manute was dominated by the centersvin the league. Yeah he got some blocks but he didnt stop anybody. His defensive ratings were mediocre at best.

There is a reason he rarely started and played few minutes as well. His body couldnt take it. He was slow, plodding, weak.

Manute Bol's defensive ratings were consistently 4-5 points better than league average through most of his career.  That's not 'mediocre'.  That's excellent.

His career DRtg of 103 was earned during an era when league average was typically just over 108 points per 100.  During his career the lowest league average dropped was to 106.3 and that was near the very tail end of his career when he was barely playing.   In no other year of his career was league average below 107.2 and most years it was well above 108.

It is true that Manute Bol did not play a lot of minutes.  But that was largely because he was offensively terrible and thus not suitable to start.  However, he was more durable than you are giving him credit.  He played between 71-82 games for 7 straight seasons.

Way too early to tell whether his son will be durable or not.

Look at average for centers.
He came off bemch amd played limited minutes

From 1986-1995 (the span of Manute's career), there were 52 players listed as centers who played at least 300 games and at least 5000 minutes (Bol played 624 games & 11698 minutes). 

The top 10 defensive ratings among this group were:

 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Manute Bol       103
 7. Wayne Cooper     103
 8. Vlade Divac      103
 9. Bill Laimbeer    103
10. Tree Rollins     103


You may recognize some of those names.

The 'average' DRtg among all Centers during this period was about 107.

How convenient you listed him as as the top rated amoung the tied with players.

So coming off the bench against bench player manute was middle of the pack ish.

He blocked shots and could rebound. I will give him that.

He got bullied and couldnt keep up with players



also, he cracked 20 minutes per game once twice in his career.

He's listed first among the 5 players tied at 103 because "Bol" is alphabetically first among those 5 players.  That's how basketball-reference.com sorted them by default.

Those 5 players tied at 103 are not "middle of the pack".   The 10 players listed are the top 10 players by rating. The next 5 players tied for #11 with a 104 ranking.   The "middle of the pack" is way down around a DRtg of 107-108.

Here, to make you feel better, I'll manually re-order the listing:


 1. Hakeem Olajuwan   97
 2. David Robinson    97
 3. Patrick Ewing    100
 4. Mark Eaton       101
 5. Dikembe Mutombo  102
 6. Wayne Cooper     103
 7. Vlade Divac      103
 8. Bill Laimbeer    103
 9. Tree Rollins     103
10. Manute Bol       103


This doesn't change the facts and it doesn't help your assertion.

Bol was also ranked first in Defensive Box Plus Minus among all these players.  And yes, also in block% and block rate.

He played 624 games and nearly 12000 minutes.  That's a pretty large sample size.  Clearly his coaches found reason to keep putting him out there (despite his horrible offense).   And when he was on the floor, his team's defense was measurably and dramatically improved.  These are measured facts.

Do you have any actual facts or real argument to support your assertion?   Or should we just believe you because you said so?

teams defense was not measurably better with him on the court. If it was he would have played more than 20 minutes per game.

http://bkref.com/tiny/BbkPY

and using your arbitrarily dictated variables....
he comes in, on a career basis, rated with a 104.
The middle of the pack ratings for centers, using the same query was 106

You literally just created a query that dropped 80 games and 2090 minutes (his whole rookie season) for Manute.  His career DRtg is 103, not 104.

Taking the median from your list is not the correct 'average' for centers because the sample excludes all the minutes played by centers who didn't make the thresholds for the list.   The real mean DRtg is, as I've said, right around ~108 during his career.

And to dissect it a little further Bol had 1 good season. His rookie year.
He actually started 60 games and played 26 minutes a game and had a defensive rating of 99. Excellent season.

yet you forgot to include that season in your results up above.

after that his minutes per game only ever got over 20 per game once.

We've been over this.  He was too awful on offense to be a starter.  That says nothing about his defense.

His DRtg rose in the middle of his career because he was on a crappy defensive team at GSW.  Of all the rotation players on that team he had by far the lowest DRtg.  In his 'worst' season when his DRtg was 108, the Warriors had a team DRtg of 112.6, (2nd worst in the NBA).   So yeah, when he was on the floor, that team was far better on defense.   They just would then suck on offense.

Jeezus, man.   Give it up.  Manute Bol was not a great basketball player and couldn't get starter minutes because he was just horrific on offense.   But he was definitely, measurably and visibly to anyone who actually watched him play, a very good defender.  Opposing teams measurably scored worse against him than against league average defense and than against his own team when he was on the bench.  By definition, that means he was good on defense.   That's the only thing that kept him on teams long after 'the freak show' novelty should have worn off.   I don't know why you are holding on to this ridiculous assertion of yours.

This is a complete deviation from the thread topic.  I'm done with responding on this.

The query is one you brought up.

It was your paramaters of year, games and minutes

I didnt forget ir leave out his best season. Its there. Season 1. And I even noted that he was all nba defense 2nd team.

He blocked shots. He was long. He was not a good defender.

You claim alot of things and have failed at every attempt to prove yourself.

The freak showvwas there for his entire career. He wasnt kept around to play 40 games and 12 minutes a game because he was a top defender in the league.

He was excellent at being big which early in his career confused alot of players into bad shots.

Manutes defense was subpar. He had bad insticts was a mediocre rebounder fir his size and was often out if position.

But he blocked shots

20 minutes a game. Ben wallace suckex offensively and played more minutes. It wasnt just offense that kept manute off the floor. Especially in those days when most centers didnt do alot on offense outside of the odd postup.

And if his defense ws a great as you claim wouldnt he have had more minutes? Or better yet more nba defensive team awards? Nope cause he didnt deserve them.

Cause he stood nearly 10 feet with his arms raised. He was a backboard in front of the rim. That doesnt take skill.