Author Topic: Interesting infos regarding the Celtics from The soul of basketball  (Read 2689 times)

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Offline Drucci

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Since the tidbits from Ray Allen's bio interested some of you, I thought I would keep up in sharing some interesting elements regarding the team, this time from another book. The soul of basketball, from known NBA writer Ian Thomsen, is a great read about the 2010-2011 season.

It basically turns around LeBron and his infamous "Decision" as well as his struggles during his first year in Miami but Thomsen also spent a lot of time with some key Celtics personnel (so far in my reading, with Doc and Pierce) and some chapters are dedicated to the team, mostly during this season but also at other times.

So, here are some tidbits (I will share the other ones after progressing in the book) :

- Before game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals in LA, Doc made a point to the team of double-teaming Kobe because he was convinced he would try his best to kill us by himself, chasing the ghost of Jordan and his legacy. We know it worked... at least for 3 quarters and a half (the memory of that game is still as painful 8 years later, sigh)

- In the round 2 series against Cleveland, where we were the underdogs, Doc had a great inspirational moment in the locker room, in Cleveland, before the tipoff of game 1. He mocked the pregame "taking a picture" ritual of the Cavs by pretending to take a picture of his team and  making a strike in bowling. And then he went to explain the mindset the C's were to have : "I was doing all this sh** and they [the team] were laughing their a*** off. And I said : 'Now that's some fun sh**, right ? They want to have fun, our job is to make this no fun. To make this f***ing war.  To make this brutal - to make this sh** hard. To make it so hard they give in. Because you can't have fun for 82 games, and all of a sudden take their fun away. Then they can't function. They'll question each other, second-guess each other. We've got to create turmoil for them."
Doc then basks in the fact that they did manage to make LeBron lose faith in this teammates and feel all alone, which led to the ending we know.

- Doc also admits that, back in '06-07, when the team was constantly losing before Ray and KG arrived, he was thinking about quitting. He says that Tommy Heinsohn's support ("hang in there, kid, hang in there, you're a hell of a coach") kept him going and that he probably would have resigned if it weren't for his support.

- Pierce confesses he threw up during the championship parade, underneath the duck boat in 08 after smoking his cigar : "I was puffing the cigar, and the next thing I know I went underneath and threw up. I got really sick, I got light-headed and dizzy, and I sat under for a good 10 to 15 minutes"

- One chapter goes in depth about the way Ainge assembled his staff when he arrived as the general manager. His idea was basically to do what Red Auerbach did but with multiple guys since he couldn't do it all like Red did.
That's how he hired Ryan McDonough to find players and scout them in person, Mike Zarren for the advanced stats, and lesser-known guy (at least to me), Jon Niednagel, known as the "Brain Doctor", who studies a player's personality through his habits (the way he blinks, moves and speaks, interacts on and off the court)... It sounds like a mentalist crap but the results are always there (like predicting McGrady would be great as his colleagues prove again and again while being skeptical themselves at first.

- According to the Brain Doctor, the best wiring of the brain for basketball players is ISTP : introverted, sensing, thinking, perceiving (which is the brain type of Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Bill Walton, Olajuwon, Stockton, Shaq and Doc Rivers).

- The Brain Doctor saw Rondo (IFSP : introverted, sensing, feeling, perceiving ; similar as Kobe) as a feeler rather than a thinker and told Danny : "He'll never be a rocket scientist, he'll always be emotional but if he's mentored right, he could be highly productive." He also predicted he would clash with Doc.

- In 2004, Red went with McDonough at the Jordan Brand Classic where Rondo was playing alongside Dwight Howard, Aldridge and others. McDonough recalls : "Red liked Rondo. Red wouldn't say a whole lot, he wouldn't gush about players but he said 'keep an eye on him'. Good advice."

- Doc admits he was very skeptical of Rondo at first while Danny and McDonough were very high on him. 'I didn't think he could play, Doc says, because no one would have to guard him. Danny and Ryan McDonough really sold it and I didn't see it. F**** kid can't even shoot at all. How is he going to run point in this league ? That was my first thing and then he is such a loner and the leadership part of it - when we first got him, I didn't like him at all. When I saw him in the summer league and at our practices, I was like 'holy s***, I would never guard him'. What I didn't see was his IQ - and he has a great feel and all that - because he didn't give that to us early. We had to get that out of him."

- Danny was very high on Brandon Roy in the 2006 draft, and wanted to take him with the 7th pick (he had him rated #1 in the draft). But Dr. Brian McKeon examined Roy's medical history and it was a huge red flag, he basically told Ainge that Roy would have "maintenance issues from the day you get him" (and he was right ; sounds even more interesting regarding Danny's recent comments about Kyrie's knee).

Coming up next : a chapter about the Kendrick Perkins trade in '11... should be interesting! 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 09:35:27 AM by Drucci »

Offline TA9

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Interesting tidbits - especially the ones regarding the 'Brain Doctor' and the fact that Red liked Rondo.

Keep them coming and TP for the work!
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Offline Hank Finkel

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Thanks excellent bits.  Keep them coming

Offline ThaPreacher

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TP! Great stuff!
I always thought that Ainge is a lot like Red.

"Just do what you do best."  -Red Auerbach-

Offline colincb

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TP. Thanks for the work.

Offline chilidawg

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Thanks!

Offline csfansince60s

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TP. Thanks for the work.

Ditto...TP

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Cool, thanks.

Re: interesting infos regarding the C's from The soul of basketball
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2018, 11:16:03 AM »

Offline Drucci

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Thanks, glad you enjoy it !

I've just finished the Perkins February '11 trade chapter and it didn't disappoint, since it contains a huge information (for which I created another thread, since it seems more appropriate) : the initial deal discussed by Danny with OKC was supposed to get us James Harden for Perkins.

- The chapter goes in depth about Perk's reputation among the team. Basically, all this teammates loved him (especially his BFF Rondo, nothing new here), Doc too, but Ainge didn't consider him as important as they did. For example, while Doc and Pierce are convinced that they would have won the '10 Finals had Perk not been injured (and Pat Riley believes it too FWIW), Ainge doesn't believe it : "He insisted that the absence of Perkins had been more than offset by the production of backup center Rasheed Wallace, who generated 11 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 blocks in 36 minutes while starting. 'It would have been nice to have Perk come off the bench but Rasheed was playing great', said Ainge, who was convinced Wallace's offense had given the Celtics their best chance to win".

I'm wondering if Danny is truly sincere here or simply defending his trade, he does have a valid point but he also conveniently forgets that Rasheed being exhausted (because he was out of shape...) at the end of the game 7 had a huge negative impact too.

- Danny and Doc admit they felt obliged to get a wing to get through LeBron after Marquis went down and since TA had signed with the Grizzlies the previous summer. Just a reminder of how huge his injury was on the team's short-term/long term evolution.

- During the '10 Cavs/Celtics series, Doc and Pierce kept telling KG he had to shoot at least 20 times a game to get advantage of his matchup but he was reluctant to do so because of his team-first mentality. Pierce wouls spend days screaming "20 shots!" at him to remind him (KG averaged 16 shots a game in that series).

- Doc was really high on finding ways to motivate his team and go beyond basketball, he was was always dropping them one-liners or inspiring quotes. To the point where Kevin Eastman, his assistant, created a computer file called "Docisms", which he filled with these quotes.

- One of them was a shot fired at Rondo, apparently : "Doc said one day : 'We may have one leader, we may have two leaders but I [dang] well know this : you've got to leard or get the hell out of the way. Because there cannot be wishy-washy leaders'. The players and coaches figured that Doc was referring to Rondo there."

- During the 07/08 season, the Celtics' practice facility had a empty spot near the 16 championship banners. This space was always lighted, even during the night, to remind the team of the ultimate goal. Rondo enjoyed seeing it lighted even when he practiced late at night.

- When the team won the title, they found an empty banner to replace the blind spot (I think most of us all know of this). And Doc made sure, during practices, that the defensive team was always facing the empty banner. He saw how KG was tired at some point, saw the banner and then got a boost of energy/motivation.

- Regarding the Perkins trade : Ainge admits he was worried about the combination of Perk/Rondo on the floor since the team went through shooting droughts because of their lack of shooting ability. Thinking about the future team, deprived of the Big Three, he thought he could live with one non-shooter but not two.
Ainge also says the team's production with Shaq made him confident, mainly the fact that statistically (as confirmed by Mike Zarren), opponents took 10 % less shots in the paint when Shaq was on the court.

- Ainge recalls offering 22 million over 4 years to Perk as as extension, which he turned down. He says : 'I could not go forward with 9 to 10 million a year, which is what I thought it would be". Ultimately, Perk got 33 million over 4 years from OKC.

- Later, Ainge goes on about how the '04 Pistons are the only team to win without stars. He said, considering the aging of the Big Three, his idea was to try "to do it like Detroit, [...] with 5 or 6 or 7 pieces because Paul's not going to score 41 in a game 7, most likely, against LeBron. And KG is not the best defensive player on the planet right now. Rondo is the most special of our players. He's the one that has the ability to take it to a special leve, more than anyone else on our team."

- LeBron and his crew were glad to learn that Perk was traded, they felt that the team got softer and lost its 'Kevin's protector" (according to Doc's ideas about their feelings). Pat Riley admits the Heat wasn't "unhappy with that trade".

- Pierce made it known he was unhappy about the trade during the rest of the season. He goes at it in long quotes but to sum it up : "[Perk] brought a swagger to our defense. Him and Kevin [were] intimidating for teams to play against. [...] That was our swagger. That was our presence. [...] That was a mental edge that we had on everybody and it was like we gave that up". He also criticizes Ainge for looking at the team from a pure talent perspective while not considering enough of the chemistry in play with Perk. And Pierce concludes the team should have waited for the summer to trade him.

- The team was playing in Denver hours after the trade deadline. The day before the game, Danny calls Doc to tell him he might get James Harden for Perkins. The day of the deadline, he calls him again to tell him the talks are dead. So Doc goes to Perk before shootaround and says : 'Hey, I know you've heard a lot of stuff, it looks like we're safe'.

But later in the morning, Doc has to leave in middle of practice to get Ainge's call. He learns that the deal is done (Perk for Nenad Krstic, Nate Robinson, Jeff Green and 1st round draft pick along with cash). When he gets back to practice, the players look at him like they know something happened. He told Perkins about it once they got back to their hotel and then he told Ray, Paul, KG and Rondo.
According to Thomsen : "Pierce and Garnett let it be known that they didn't like the trade. 'Me and Kevin were real sour on that' said Piece. 'To give up on Perk, that hurt. He was crying. It was tough on me talking to him, I really didn't know what to tell him'. I tried to lift up his spirit but he was a mess. He couldn't believe it'."

- In the locker room before the game, Doc get emotional and cried while saying to the team "we're going to miss him", and some player were also crying.

- Another interesting tidbit : "For Rondo, charged with quarterbacking a remodeled team, the loss of his one close friend left him feeling more isolated than ever".

Offline kozlodoev

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and lesser-known guy (at least to me), Jon Niednagel, known as the "Brain Doctor", who studies a player's personality through his habits (the way he blinks, moves and speaks, interacts on and off the court)... It sounds like a mentalist crap but the results are always there (like predicting McGrady would be great as his colleagues prove again and again while being skeptical themselves at first.
Seriously? The Brain Doctor has been the laughing stock of this blog for a good while, mainly due to his role in tapping Brian Scalabrine as the next great thing.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Interesting infos regarding the Celtics from The soul of basketball
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 11:29:20 AM »

Offline Drucci

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and lesser-known guy (at least to me), Jon Niednagel, known as the "Brain Doctor", who studies a player's personality through his habits (the way he blinks, moves and speaks, interacts on and off the court)... It sounds like a mentalist crap but the results are always there (like predicting McGrady would be great as his colleagues prove again and again while being skeptical themselves at first.
Seriously? The Brain Doctor has been the laughing stock of this blog for a good while, mainly due to his role in tapping Brian Scalabrine as the next great thing.

Yep, seriously, although now I have to reconsider this stance aha

Re: Interesting infos regarding the Celtics from The soul of basketball
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 11:46:35 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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and lesser-known guy (at least to me), Jon Niednagel, known as the "Brain Doctor", who studies a player's personality through his habits (the way he blinks, moves and speaks, interacts on and off the court)... It sounds like a mentalist crap but the results are always there (like predicting McGrady would be great as his colleagues prove again and again while being skeptical themselves at first.
Seriously? The Brain Doctor has been the laughing stock of this blog for a good while, mainly due to his role in tapping Brian Scalabrine as the next great thing.

Yep, seriously, although now I have to reconsider this stance aha
Yeah, there are some tidbits here and here for your perusal ;)
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Interesting infos regarding the Celtics from The soul of basketball
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 02:59:07 PM »

Offline Drucci

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and lesser-known guy (at least to me), Jon Niednagel, known as the "Brain Doctor", who studies a player's personality through his habits (the way he blinks, moves and speaks, interacts on and off the court)... It sounds like a mentalist crap but the results are always there (like predicting McGrady would be great as his colleagues prove again and again while being skeptical themselves at first.
Seriously? The Brain Doctor has been the laughing stock of this blog for a good while, mainly due to his role in tapping Brian Scalabrine as the next great thing.

Yep, seriously, although now I have to reconsider this stance aha
Yeah, there are some tidbits here and here for your perusal ;)

Thanks, I'm still laughing at this one :
Quote
"Here's an interesting fact -- Brian Scalabrine possesses the top brain type for basketball, according to brain researcher Jon Niednagel. That's one of the reasons Ainge got him -- Scalabrine has a brain type similar to Jerry West, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan."

To get back to the book, it goes in depth about the Celtics/Heat '11 playoff series and the Rondo incident (when he threw a bottle of water at the TV screen between games 2 and 3 because Doc was criticizing him). We don't learn new stuff about this particular anecdote, but we do learn that Paul Pierce is to blame for an out of timeout play in game 4 that, if the shot was made, would have given them the lead with no seconds left for Miami to get another shot and a chance to get back to Miami tied at 2-2 (instead of 3-1 after they lost game 4 in OT).

The play starts at the 11:09 mark of the video here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpvvWwczl8o

Doc says that, during the timeout, he asked Rondo to inbound the ball to Pierce, who was supposed to wait at the top of the key for "Garnett and Allen to approach". But after the huddle, Pierce told Rondo that he was going to give him the ball back so that he could hold it a bit before giving it back to Pierce.
Doc concludes : "Ray didn't know that. So Ray sees Rondo with the ball [wondering if the original play was called off and when Rondo passed the ball back to Pierce, KG and Ray didn't know what to do and lost precious seconds when Paul yelled for them to approach]. They f****d the whole timing of it up. Paul made it look like it was somebody's else fault but it really was Paul's fault." He missed a tough fallaway jumpshot as you can see on the video.


Re: Interesting infos regarding the Celtics from The soul of basketball
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2018, 04:30:04 AM »

Offline Drucci

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One last (funny) tidbit after finishing the book, this Paul Pierce quote in reaction to Ray saying he went to Miami because he was tired of being in trade rumors : "I was in trade rumors last year - I was. And I told Danny 'just send me somewhere warm if it's going to happen."