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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: timpiker on April 16, 2018, 10:02:13 AM

Title: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: timpiker on April 16, 2018, 10:02:13 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Roy H. on April 16, 2018, 10:06:53 AM
I think you’re confused about what “one-dimensional” means.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: __ramonezy__ on April 16, 2018, 10:10:14 AM
because it's a crime to shoot him in the leg on the court... plus too many witnesses.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Fafnir on April 16, 2018, 10:12:53 AM
Giannis cannot score at two levels, mid range and three point range.

But he's a threat from anywhere else with his size/strength, can post up efficiently, has incredible handle for his size, and is a pretty darn good passer.

Far from one-dimensional.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Chris22 on April 16, 2018, 10:16:12 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

Like Harden, it's hard to defend a player who gets three steps from the referees.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 16, 2018, 10:20:09 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

Honestly, watch some basketball. If your take on Lebron James is that he's a bum, I suggest hockey. He's anything but one dimensional.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: hpantazo on April 16, 2018, 10:24:25 AM
It's tough when he's allowed to travel. Al played great D on him on several possessions just to have Giannis shuffle his feet and draw a foul.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Roy H. on April 16, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

Honestly, watch some basketball. If your take on Lebron James is that he's a bum, I suggest hockey. He's anything but one dimensional.

Yeah, Lebron is the most multi-dimensional player in the NBA.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Ory on April 16, 2018, 10:31:12 AM
is allowed to travel?

Because he is allowed to travel, simple as that. Giannis is an amazing athlete, he should either learn how to not travel or go win gold medals playing volleyball. Selectively enforced rules are less fun than consistently applied rules.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Green-18 on April 16, 2018, 10:34:42 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

His size, length, athleticism, and ability to cover ground literally gives teams zero margin for error on the perimeter.  It's also game over if you turn the ball over on offense.  His "one dimension" is unbelievably dominant.  Let's also not pretend that there aren't five players on the court.  Imagine if Giannis had a shooter like Reddick or Korver to pair with Middleton.     
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 16, 2018, 10:36:53 AM
NBA anoints certain players

Lebron is losing some of his referee love past year .  Imagime that he has to play under the same rules ....wow....not quite , but the time is closing in.

A selete group of players are THE NBA fanchise and that is that . They are protected by the refs above all others.

Giannis. Harden. Davis and now Simmons recieve the Diva Calls and fans expect it as such.

When you have a bright new shiney car .....you wash , wax it and don't want it scratched .   
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: hpantazo on April 16, 2018, 10:41:00 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

His size, length, athleticism, and ability to cover ground literally gives teams zero margin for error on the perimeter.  It's also game over if you turn the ball over on offense.  His "one dimension" is unbelievably dominant.  Let's also not pretend that there aren't five players on the court.  Imagine if Giannis had a shooter like Reddick or Korver to pair with Middleton.     

aka: ability to travel
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: tonydelk on April 16, 2018, 10:45:43 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

dude is 7ft tall, quick as lightening, Strong as hell and has a sick handle.  No one on the C's team or in the NBA has a guard that has that type of length.  If they put a PF on him he just blows by them.   Giannis is called the Greek Freak for a reason. 
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Erik on April 16, 2018, 10:47:10 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

His size, length, athleticism, and ability to cover ground literally gives teams zero margin for error on the perimeter.  It's also game over if you turn the ball over on offense.  His "one dimension" is unbelievably dominant.  Let's also not pretend that there aren't five players on the court.  Imagine if Giannis had a shooter like Reddick or Korver to pair with Middleton.     

aka: ability to travel

It's a hidden benefit of being taller. You're allowed to take extra steps while the ball is in the final motion between ground and your hand so the distance is enough to sometimes sneak an extra step in there. It's legal most of the time. The refs don't have the ability to dissect it in slow motion like we do, so sometimes the step is late. Generally speaking if it's close enough they give the player the benefit of the doubt since that kind of motion is ingrained into muscle memory (have you ever tried to do a layup with the other foot? it's surprisingly hard because we're so used to starting the layup motion with a specific foot in order to end up on the right foot) and assume the player is acting legally. I don't understand why the entire internet freaks out over it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1lyyr3/explanation_of_why_3_steps_is_actually_legal/

This link shows a few examples.

.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

The simple answer is because he can take anyone off the dribble 1 on 1 and he has 4 other teammates to pass to when doubled. I know in your pickup games you can just stack 5 under the basket, but in the NBA there are things like defensive 3 second violation and the other 4 teammates all can make wide open shots.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on April 16, 2018, 10:54:37 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

Like Harden, it's hard to defend a player who gets three steps from the referees.

Don't forget "and who also initiates contact but rarely gets called for offensive fouls."
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: BitterJim on April 16, 2018, 11:21:21 AM
.......... drives to the basket 99% of the time and can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet?

Its sickening.  There was Shaq, then LeBUM, now Giannis.

His size, length, athleticism, and ability to cover ground literally gives teams zero margin for error on the perimeter.  It's also game over if you turn the ball over on offense.  His "one dimension" is unbelievably dominant.  Let's also not pretend that there aren't five players on the court.  Imagine if Giannis had a shooter like Reddick or Korver to pair with Middleton.     

Yup. It's easy to figure out how to stop him. The issue is actually doing it.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: keevsnick on April 16, 2018, 11:57:53 AM
Because his one dimension is really, really, really, really, really, really (deep breath), really good? I mean its not like nba coaches dont know how, in theory, you should treat Giannis. Sag off him and defend the rim seems like an easy idea but then you give a guy who can cover half court in three steps a runway, with his athleticism and length theres no way to stop him. So you stick closer to him and he's either by in two steps or will find the open man off the drive since he's an exceptional passer for his size. Even if you do stick with him all the way to the rim he's bigger than 99% of guys who can run with him so he finished over you. There a reason FREAK is in his nickname. And ya, the refs help, but half the problem is the refs rarely see somebody that big move that way, and he dominates so often he gets the benefit of the doubt. 
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: GreenEnvy on April 16, 2018, 12:37:47 PM
I mean Shaq always got the ball down low and had the strength, skill, and athleticism to get to the rim.

LeBron wasn’t a great shooter coming into the league but by the time he got to Miami he was a pretty good shooter and now can hit daggers from anywhere on the court.

But Giannis? I really don’t get how they let him catch the ball beyond the 3 point line and still allow him to penetrate as far as he does (often getting to the rim) without daring him to shoot. I’d sag off him, collapse onto him earlier, whatever they need to do. I know he get more steps than 99.7% of NBA players and uses his shoulders as battering rams. But still, we need to figure him out. Once you adequately defend him (sounds easier said than done, but Brad can gameplan specifically for him), the rest of their offense should fold.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: td450 on April 16, 2018, 12:43:10 PM
Consider how late in his development it was before he was exposed to the kind of coaching and resources that virtually all top prospects in the US get. He's 23. I would be really surprised if he's not the best player in the NBA next year.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: PhoSita on April 16, 2018, 12:45:02 PM
Giannis is an extremely talented player who can score many ways.  I just think he lacks imagination on the court.  Compare how he uses his talents to Simmons or LeBron.  Doesn't have the same kind of court vision or unpredictability in how he attacks a defense.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: konkmv on April 16, 2018, 01:37:45 PM
He is not one dimensional... He just cannot shoot 3s... wouldn't you be happy to have him with the Celtics?
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Chris22 on April 16, 2018, 01:43:22 PM
NBA anoints certain players

Lebron is losing some of his referee love past year .  Imagime that he has to play under the same rules ....wow....not quite , but the time is closing in.

A selete group of players are THE NBA fanchise and that is that . They are protected by the refs above all others.

Giannis. Harden. Davis and now Simmons recieve the Diva Calls and fans expect it as such.

When you have a bright new shiney car .....you wash , wax it and don't want it scratched .

TP
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: droopdog7 on April 16, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
Not taking this thread seriously at all.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: bellerephon on April 16, 2018, 05:53:20 PM
You can stop him, it's actually fairly simple. You pack the defense in and collapse when he drives, so there are multiple defenders there no matter which way he goes. The problem is that this leaves the shooters open at the 3 point line. Milwaukee may not have great 3 point numbers, but if you let Middleton, Brogdon, or Terry set up uncovered on the 3 point line they are going to make you pay.

So you try to mix it up, sometimes you collapse when he drives, and try to recover when he passes out of the paint, other times you play him straight up and hope the defender can get it done. I'm actually not too concerned with Giannis, he's going to get his points. The Celts want to make him work hard, mix up defensive looks, keep him off balance, try to get him to take jump shots, but don't worry too much if scores 28 +.

What the Celts can't do is allow Middleton or Brogdon or Bledsoe to go off and score a bunch. They need to keep those guys under control. The Celts were fortunate to get the win last night given how effective Middleton was.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Sophomore on April 16, 2018, 07:41:44 PM
You can stop him, it's actually fairly simple. You pack the defense in and collapse when he drives, so there are multiple defenders there no matter which way he goes. The problem is that this leaves the shooters open at the 3 point line. Milwaukee may not have great 3 point numbers, but if you let Middleton, Brogdon, or Terry set up uncovered on the 3 point line they are going to make you pay.

So you try to mix it up, sometimes you collapse when he drives, and try to recover when he passes out of the paint, other times you play him straight up and hope the defender can get it done. I'm actually not too concerned with Giannis, he's going to get his points. The Celts want to make him work hard, mix up defensive looks, keep him off balance, try to get him to take jump shots, but don't worry too much if scores 28 +.

What the Celts can't do is allow Middleton or Brogdon or Bledsoe to go off and score a bunch. They need to keep those guys under control. The Celts were fortunate to get the win last night given how effective Middleton was.

All of this. Also, you try to make it hard enough on him early, and if you’re lucky tire him out a little, so he’s not coming downhill on you late in the game when the buckets are really hard to come by. Giannis scores a lot, but in the second half he settled for a bunch of jumpers and even a pull-up 3 above the break.

If that kid ever figures out how to hit jumpers, yikes.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: hpantazo on April 16, 2018, 07:49:28 PM
NBA anoints certain players

Lebron is losing some of his referee love past year .  Imagime that he has to play under the same rules ....wow....not quite , but the time is closing in.

A selete group of players are THE NBA fanchise and that is that . They are protected by the refs above all others.

Giannis. Harden. Davis and now Simmons recieve the Diva Calls and fans expect it as such.

When you have a bright new shiney car .....you wash , wax it and don't want it scratched .

It goes double for him because he draws a large international audience. It broadens the NBA brand which is their long-term goal.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: nickagneta on April 16, 2018, 08:13:43 PM
If he couldn't hit FTs it would be a lot easier to game plan for him. That will be Simmons problem. But Giannis is a very good free throw shooter so it makes it ridiculously hard to gameplan him.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Beat LA on April 16, 2018, 10:17:58 PM
With respect, I think that we're looking at this incorrectly in devoting so much attention to posing various ideas as to how to, at least theoretically, defend the guy, as was the case with Lebron, who looks like he'll get out of the league without anyone having ever exploited his principle weakness. Don't wear yourself out trying to defend guys like that - attack them.

For example, and as I said in another thread, Giannis, like Durant, simply cannot guard post players owing to his body type, so we should be pounding the ball inside with Horford as much as possible, but beyond that, did anyone else notice as to how Giannis goes for every pump fake? In one possession, Tatum faked the guy out of his shoes at least twice with the same move, so more of that, only this time get the contact and Giannis will be on the bench before you know it. He can't hurt you if he isn't on the court.

That said, the one guy who could give him fits, on both ends, is Pascal Siakam, imo. Brb, inventing time machine ;D.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Androslav on April 17, 2018, 02:49:47 AM
I am just waiting for a Greek CB members response on the one-dimensional part of the title :)

How many dimensions did Steve Novak had, or our own K.Perkins?
Do players with 0-dimensions even exist?
(X-files theme song)
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: gouki88 on April 17, 2018, 04:12:17 AM
I am just waiting for a Greek CB members response on the one-dimensional part of the title :)

How many dimensions did Steve Novak had, or our own K.Perkins?
Do players with 0-dimensions even exist?
(X-files theme song)
I wish we had a one-dimensional All-NBA level player in addition to our multi-dimensional one, albeit an injured one
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 17, 2018, 06:56:38 AM
Giannis is not very skilled on offense in terms of shooting but he does not have to be as he has elite length and athletic ability.  The term freak suits him very well.   I just hope we try to limit his drives and make him beat us with the jump shot.   He is a league favorite so he gets away with tons of travels and get calls when he misses to subsidize his scoring.

He is very talented but its due to his size and length and not super skills though he does have a good handle.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: timpiker on April 17, 2018, 09:05:53 AM
Its funny so many of you attack me for calling him "1 dimensional" and tell me how great he is.  I didn't say he wasn't great.  He is great.  At one thing - driving to the basket.  I still contend, if Brad and the team cannot stop a 1-dimensional drive to the basket only player then they deserve to lose.  And the same is true for the rest of the NBA.

Granted, LeBUM isn't like this anymore but his 1st 5 years or so, that's all he was, too.

I recall Giannis made 1 - 5 ft shot Sunday.  Everything else was closer and free throws.  Ridiculous.

Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Roy H. on April 17, 2018, 09:16:12 AM
Its funny so many of you attack me for calling him "1 dimensional" and tell me how great he is.  I didn't say he wasn't great.  He is great.  At one thing - driving to the basket.  I still contend, if Brad and the team cannot stop a 1-dimensional drive to the basket only player then they deserve to lose.  And the same is true for the rest of the NBA.

Granted, LeBUM isn't like this anymore but his 1st 5 years or so, that's all he was, too.

I recall Giannis made 1 - 5 ft shot Sunday.  Everything else was closer and free throws.  Ridiculous.

He’s not one-dimensional. He’s not a good shooter; but his game is multi-faceted. He scores, passes, rebounds and defends. He can score off the dribble, but also on post ups, pick and roll, and the occasional jumper.

In Game 1, he scored 9 out of his 11 FGs at the rim. That’s not his only skill though.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Green-18 on April 17, 2018, 09:40:53 AM
People are absolutely nuts with their extreme opinions.  Sometimes it feels like we are participating in a "hot take" talk show.  Do the officials give Giannis some liberties? Absolutely.  Did the officials blow some important calls in game 1.  Absolutely.  Does he travel every single time?  Absolutely not.

Giannis has plenty of deficiencies in his game but his development is amazing for someone who picked up the game only a few years ago.  I certainly hope that all of this complaining comes from a place of intense fandom for the Celtics.  Giannis is a great story in general for the NBA.  By all accounts he has insane work ethic.  Imagine the player he will be at 27 years old.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 17, 2018, 09:43:49 AM
People are absolutely nuts with their extreme opinions.  Sometimes it feels like we are participating in a "hot take" talk show.  Do the officials give Giannis some liberties? Absolutely.  Did the officials blow some important calls in game 1.  Absolutely.  Does he travel every single time?  Absolutely not.

Giannis has plenty of deficiencies in his game but his development is amazing for someone who picked up the game only a few years ago.  I certainly hope that all of this complaining comes from a place of intense fandom for the Celtics.  Giannis is a great story in general for the NBA.  By all accounts he has insane work ethic.  Imagine the player he will be at 27 years old.

People like to target the big, flashy player and try to knock him down. It says more about those people than Giannis, Shaq, or "Lebum".
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: td450 on April 17, 2018, 11:40:37 AM
Its funny so many of you attack me for calling him "1 dimensional" and tell me how great he is.  I didn't say he wasn't great.  He is great.  At one thing - driving to the basket.  I still contend, if Brad and the team cannot stop a 1-dimensional drive to the basket only player then they deserve to lose.  And the same is true for the rest of the NBA.

Granted, LeBUM isn't like this anymore but his 1st 5 years or so, that's all he was, too.

I recall Giannis made 1 - 5 ft shot Sunday.  Everything else was closer and free throws.  Ridiculous.
You aren't listening. He is an elite ball handler and passer. He is getting double teamed all the time, and he makes great decisions about exactly when to pass. He had 7 assists Sunday. We could just stop him, but their offense is set up so that you have to cheat off Middleton and Brogdon to do it, and he makes the right play when you take his drives away.
Title: Re: Why can't people figure out how to stop a 1-dimensional player who ..........
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 17, 2018, 04:55:25 PM
Quote
He’s not a good shooter; but his game is multi-faceted. He scores, passes, rebounds and defends. He can score off the dribble, but also on post ups, pick and roll, and the occasional jumper.

Most of this is due to athletic ability and his size not elite moves or skills.  That being said he can overpower most people on his shear ability which to me is even more amazing that trying to hype up skills he does not possess to a high degree.