CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on May 17, 2018, 11:34:18 PM
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
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Speaking of the value of the Sacramento pick alone. I'm not giving up the Kings pick for the #7 pick in this draft. It's potentially a top 3 to top 5 pick in 2019. Giving it up would just be foolish.
Keep TRoz. Keep the pick.
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Bulls would want the Kings pick
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
I'd need to know who you're targeting at #7 so much that you'd be willing to give up Rozier.
Who do you think will be available at that spot?
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The Bulls are not gonna want Rozier with Dunn. They traded away their franchise player to get Dunn (and other stuff) and Dunn has played well for them. And then to give up the 7th pick in this draft for a future pick doesn't make sense.
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
I'd need to know who you're targeting at #7 so much that you'd be willing to give up Rozier.
Who do you think will be available at that spot?
Probably one of Porter, Jaren J, or Wendall will be available.
If I could trade Terry for one of those guys, I probably do it. Marcus Smart is just too much "part" of the Boston Celtics now it feels like - much as I am a 3pt% slave.
The smart move is probably to let Marcus go get a BIG deal, and keep Terry.
Important to note that Terry's extension deadline is before the start of 2018 season, so we will be able to enter extension negotiations with Terry at the same time as offers start coming in for Marcus...
A lot of that question will come down to Brad though. Danny will surely ask him which backup he wants to run with for the next two years. If it's Marcus, Danny will have to overpay (which he will probably do). If it's Terry, then Danny can offer a reasonable extension, Rozier will balk, then Danny can go cold, and Terry probably comes back and takes the guaranteed money.
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
I'd need to know who you're targeting at #7 so much that you'd be willing to give up Rozier.
Who do you think will be available at that spot?
Michael Porter Jr. Possibly the best player in the draft if healthy. It's a roll if the dice, but if he hits his potential. Celtics would be unbelievable.
Or whoever else slides. I'm not giving up the Nets pick but I would consider the Grizzlies pick and rosea it's possible to trade with the magic at number six as well they could use a point guard
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
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The Bulls are not gonna want Rozier with Dunn. They traded away their franchise player to get Dunn (and other stuff) and Dunn has played well for them. And then to give up the 7th pick in this draft for a future pick doesn't make sense.
Yeah, teams can sour on guys pretty quick. Not to mention I think the prize in that deal was Zach LaVine.
That being said, Dunn showed up late in the season playing some really nice games. Chicago would be smart to make the deal, tank for another year, get two high picks in next years draft. Rozier, RJ Barret, Zion, Markannen is a nice young core to start a franchise..
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
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I’d give up the Kings pick for it. What else they would want, I don’t know. Maybe I do Yabu or Semi. How about the Clippers pick?
If Porter is available at 7 I definitely investigate that. That’s a swing-for-the-fences type of pick. That kid can be a franchise player.
I *may* even do the Kings pick and Rozier for Porter. Probably not, but maybe. I don’t know much about the 2019 draft, but does anyone have his potential and with the lottery reform, who knows what we get? There could be as good a chance at #2 or #10 or #24.
If you could secure a talent like Porter for a very volatile future pick and Rozier (a great player but serious concerns over our ability to keep him beyond next season), I’d STRONGLY consider it.
That said, much ado about nothing, Chicago is keeping that pick, especially if Porter is on the board.
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
While Chicago, along with Houston, iirc, did have their eyes on Rozier in 2015, I don't see as to how Terry fits on that team, and I disagree about him being better than Dunn, particularly as they're completely different players, imo.
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The Bulls are not gonna want Rozier with Dunn. They traded away their franchise player to get Dunn (and other stuff) and Dunn has played well for them. And then to give up the 7th pick in this draft for a future pick doesn't make sense.
Yeah, teams can sour on guys pretty quick. Not to mention I think the prize in that deal was Zach LaVine.
That being said, Dunn showed up late in the season playing some really nice games. Chicago would be smart to make the deal, tank for another year, get two high picks in next years draft. Rozier, RJ Barret, Zion, Markannen is a nice young core to start a franchise..
The prize in the deal was the pick that turned into Lauri M.
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
I'd need to know who you're targeting at #7 so much that you'd be willing to give up Rozier.
Who do you think will be available at that spot?
Michael Porter Jr. Possibly the best player in the draft if healthy. It's a roll if the dice, but if he hits his potential. Celtics would be unbelievable.
Or whoever else slides. I'm not giving up the Nets pick but I would consider the Grizzlies pick and rosea it's possible to trade with the magic at number six as well they could use a point guard
As you say, if Porter is deemed healthy enough to be worth a shot, I'd go Rozier, Grizzlies pick and our own pick at #27 max. Danny might ask for a future 2nd rounder also, you never know with him! :)
We could work Porter in slowly, if need be, and that would allow Terry to achieve his dream of being a starter in a town rich with basketball history. I'd love to see him stay a Celtic, but you can't blame him for wanting to start.
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I would pick the option with Kyrie + Al + Tatum for no.7. and a 2nd rounder, but there are only lesser options available.
Joking aside, when boys are playing as good as they are right now, I feel it is almost a blasphemy to talk about moving them. More convenient times will arrive.
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
I think there's a solid point here.
If you're gunning for Porter at that pick, it's a swing for the fences type of pick considering his health. there's a real possibility he never becomes the player he was initially projected to be.
Personally, I'd prefer to roll with Rozier next year as an experienced backup PG who's shown he can step up to the moment in the playoffs. This team has gone from 'build for the future' to 'contend now'. We need players who can contribute, not more prospects (other than who we already have and the future picks lined up the next few years). Injuries can happen (as we've seen this year) so being able to call on Smart and Rozier next year to step into the starting lineup if Kyrie or Brown miss some games will be invaluable.
I'd worry about Rozier the following year. Also, with the ruling on sports betting, there may be another jump in the salary cap allowing the C's to pay for everyone they already have considering the possible new revenue stream that each sports league is angling for.
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I don't know how realistic it is and I'd prefer to keep Terry for a championship run next season but if the Celtics could package Rozier and #27 and get Bamba or Jackson I'd be happy with that.
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No trades.
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
I think there's a solid point here.
If you're gunning for Porter at that pick, it's a swing for the fences type of pick considering his health. there's a real possibility he never becomes the player he was initially projected to be.
Personally, I'd prefer to roll with Rozier next year as an experienced backup PG who's shown he can step up to the moment in the playoffs. This team has gone from 'build for the future' to 'contend now'. We need players who can contribute, not more prospects (other than who we already have and the future picks lined up the next few years). Injuries can happen (as we've seen this year) so being able to call on Smart and Rozier next year to step into the starting lineup if Kyrie or Brown miss some games will be invaluable.
I'd worry about Rozier the following year. Also, with the ruling on sports betting, there may be another jump in the salary cap allowing the C's to pay for everyone they already have considering the possible new revenue stream that each sports league is angling for.
You want someone who can contribute right from the start? Mikal Bridges. Just 2 years younger than Rozier, but 3 more years under the rookie scale.
We can't keep both Smart and Rozier. If Danny believes Rozier is the odd man out, now is the time to trade him. His trade value will never be higher.
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
While Chicago, along with Houston, iirc, did have their eyes on Rozier in 2015, I don't see as to how Terry fits on that team, and I disagree about him being better than Dunn, particularly as they're completely different players, imo.
They’re both scoring point guards. In what way are they different? In what way is Dunn better?
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Keep in mind that The bulls have always loved Rozier, and reportedly were going to take him at #22 that year. Ainge shocked everyone and drafted him 16. And consider that Rozier is better than Kris Dunn right now.
Rozier projects as a starter with the Bulls.
Or just post what you think is fair for #7. This trade would screw the Cavs as well. We could steal a sliding star from them.
While Chicago, along with Houston, iirc, did have their eyes on Rozier in 2015, I don't see as to how Terry fits on that team, and I disagree about him being better than Dunn, particularly as they're completely different players, imo.
They’re both scoring point guards. In what way are they different? In what way is Dunn better?
Huh? Kris Dunn isn't a scoring PG is he? He's a better passer than Rozier, comparable rebounder, and considerably better defender - Rozier is a much more dynamic scorer though.
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This is really a question about Ainge's strategy for managing the team resources from here.
Will he see himself as having assembled everything he needs to storm the league next year, even if that means some assets will degrade (pending free agency/minutes crunches) when new contracts come due? Will the team just suck it up and pay the bills? Or, will he be proactive about managing his secondary core players, attempting to avoid major conflicts in minutes, roles and money? Will he keep the core chemistry intact, or take advantage if even bigger superstars become available? Does he think Jaylen and Jason need to be given the keys to the car?
Anyway, I want Wendell Carter or Jaren Jackson. Micheal Porter would be a fascinating experiment in changing the shape of the way the game is played. I personally don't see the utility of the Sac pick next year, and don't see Rozier being happy playing 20 minutes, so I don't mind overpaying for a great pick for a big man this year. Or we get Porter, and the league freaks out at the mad scientist experiment Ainge is running.
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
I think there's a solid point here.
If you're gunning for Porter at that pick, it's a swing for the fences type of pick considering his health. there's a real possibility he never becomes the player he was initially projected to be.
Personally, I'd prefer to roll with Rozier next year as an experienced backup PG who's shown he can step up to the moment in the playoffs. This team has gone from 'build for the future' to 'contend now'. We need players who can contribute, not more prospects (other than who we already have and the future picks lined up the next few years). Injuries can happen (as we've seen this year) so being able to call on Smart and Rozier next year to step into the starting lineup if Kyrie or Brown miss some games will be invaluable.
I'd worry about Rozier the following year. Also, with the ruling on sports betting, there may be another jump in the salary cap allowing the C's to pay for everyone they already have considering the possible new revenue stream that each sports league is angling for.
You want someone who can contribute right from the start? Mikal Bridges. Just 2 years younger than Rozier, but 3 more years under the rookie scale.
We can't keep both Smart and Rozier. If Danny believes Rozier is the odd man out, now is the time to trade him. His trade value will never be higher.
we CAN keep both. that's the point. unless Smart gets a godfather offer this offseason, which I honestly don't see him getting over MLE from anyone, we have both under contract for next season. if this playoff run has shown us anything is that if we have Kyrie and Hayward added to this team next year, we're not just winning the East, we're a legitimate contenders. for me, that's worth keeping Rozier for next season regardless of the following offseason when he's an RFA. Also, don't ignore this legalized betting decision. That's going to have a real impacts to the league's income and the salary cap. each team could be looking at enough of a bump in the cap where the C's can afford both Smart and Rozier (and hopefully Kyrie's next deal as well as Brown and Tatum's paydays).
Rozier has some trade value now but we're this close to being the top roster in the league with him around next year. if the C's need backcourt scoring off the bench, they'd have Rozier. if they need D off the bench, it'd be Smart. Rozier (with Smart) also allows Brad to rest Kyrie and Brown at the same time -- a luxury he wouldn't have otherwise.
as far as trading for Mikal Bridges, he's an unproven commodity unlike Rozier. He'd be a rookie who has never experienced NBA regular season much less the playoffs where Rozier has shown he's not afraid of the spotlight. that's not something I feel can be ignored and just brushed off to assume any player can be plugged into that situation and rise to the occasion.
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Qicker DA moves Smart or Rozier , if he isn't inclined to try and keep both the better , their values climb as Celtics keep,winning.
I bet he does something while their value is high , i have not a clue as to what .
but his biggest gain from where he picked to value today is Rozier . Could net him a nice asset of two
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Why are we talking about trading Rozier to a team who doesn't need him for the #7 pick, when we could be doing the same for a team that does need him (Orlando) at #6?
Mike
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Here's a problem: we can't afford to sign Smart and the 7th pick without going over luxury tax. It's not happening. They want the Kings pick due to it converting next year when were already going over the luxury.
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
I think there's a solid point here.
If you're gunning for Porter at that pick, it's a swing for the fences type of pick considering his health. there's a real possibility he never becomes the player he was initially projected to be.
Personally, I'd prefer to roll with Rozier next year as an experienced backup PG who's shown he can step up to the moment in the playoffs. This team has gone from 'build for the future' to 'contend now'. We need players who can contribute, not more prospects (other than who we already have and the future picks lined up the next few years). Injuries can happen (as we've seen this year) so being able to call on Smart and Rozier next year to step into the starting lineup if Kyrie or Brown miss some games will be invaluable.
I'd worry about Rozier the following year. Also, with the ruling on sports betting, there may be another jump in the salary cap allowing the C's to pay for everyone they already have considering the possible new revenue stream that each sports league is angling for.
You want someone who can contribute right from the start? Mikal Bridges. Just 2 years younger than Rozier, but 3 more years under the rookie scale.
We can't keep both Smart and Rozier. If Danny believes Rozier is the odd man out, now is the time to trade him. His trade value will never be higher.
we CAN keep both. that's the point. unless Smart gets a godfather offer this offseason, which I honestly don't see him getting over MLE from anyone, we have both under contract for next season. if this playoff run has shown us anything is that if we have Kyrie and Hayward added to this team next year, we're not just winning the East, we're a legitimate contenders. for me, that's worth keeping Rozier for next season regardless of the following offseason when he's an RFA. Also, don't ignore this legalized betting decision. That's going to have a real impacts to the league's income and the salary cap. each team could be looking at enough of a bump in the cap where the C's can afford both Smart and Rozier (and hopefully Kyrie's next deal as well as Brown and Tatum's paydays).
Rozier has some trade value now but we're this close to being the top roster in the league with him around next year. if the C's need backcourt scoring off the bench, they'd have Rozier. if they need D off the bench, it'd be Smart. Rozier (with Smart) also allows Brad to rest Kyrie and Brown at the same time -- a luxury he wouldn't have otherwise.
as far as trading for Mikal Bridges, he's an unproven commodity unlike Rozier. He'd be a rookie who has never experienced NBA regular season much less the playoffs where Rozier has shown he's not afraid of the spotlight. that's not something I feel can be ignored and just brushed off to assume any player can be plugged into that situation and rise to the occasion.
If there is a cap spike from legalized betting that makes it more likely we Won't be able to keep Rozier. A bunch of teams with more cap space when hes a RFA means a huge contract offer, an offer we simply wont match if we already have Irving and Smart making 40+ million a year. You just can't ty up starter money in a guy who is your third pint guard. There's a zero percent chance we are keeping all three of Smart, Rozier and Irving long term. Now, if you wnat too keep him to increase our chances next year then thats fine, but I think on a team with Rozier, Smart and Brown taking most of your guard minutes having Rozier isnt rally that big a boost. I like him, I'd trade him if the offer is right.
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
I think there's a solid point here.
If you're gunning for Porter at that pick, it's a swing for the fences type of pick considering his health. there's a real possibility he never becomes the player he was initially projected to be.
Personally, I'd prefer to roll with Rozier next year as an experienced backup PG who's shown he can step up to the moment in the playoffs. This team has gone from 'build for the future' to 'contend now'. We need players who can contribute, not more prospects (other than who we already have and the future picks lined up the next few years). Injuries can happen (as we've seen this year) so being able to call on Smart and Rozier next year to step into the starting lineup if Kyrie or Brown miss some games will be invaluable.
I'd worry about Rozier the following year. Also, with the ruling on sports betting, there may be another jump in the salary cap allowing the C's to pay for everyone they already have considering the possible new revenue stream that each sports league is angling for.
You want someone who can contribute right from the start? Mikal Bridges. Just 2 years younger than Rozier, but 3 more years under the rookie scale.
We can't keep both Smart and Rozier. If Danny believes Rozier is the odd man out, now is the time to trade him. His trade value will never be higher.
I think Bridges will become a star role player in the same mold as Green.
TP to ya.
Although, I believe MPJ will be the biggest draft steal if he drops past the sixth pick..
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If you traded rozier straight UP for the #7 pick you're an idiot. Let alone adding another pick.
Really Playa? Your an idiot? How about if we already we can't afford Rozier, and Irving who is about a 180 million dollar player. And Tatum and Brown are both going to be 100 million dollar contracts soon.
And Horford makes 30 million per year, and so does Hayward he makes 30 million per year. Oh, and we might pay Smart this year that will be about 10 million per year.
By trading Rozier you get a top prospect thats cost controlled for four years.
#7pick in the draft is just as likely to be a bust in the draft as a top prospect. If you're worried about salary you're much better to package him and a player and get a solid bench guy that you know for certain will contribute than to trade him for a #7 so-so prospect and another possibly high pick.
I think there's a solid point here.
If you're gunning for Porter at that pick, it's a swing for the fences type of pick considering his health. there's a real possibility he never becomes the player he was initially projected to be.
Personally, I'd prefer to roll with Rozier next year as an experienced backup PG who's shown he can step up to the moment in the playoffs. This team has gone from 'build for the future' to 'contend now'. We need players who can contribute, not more prospects (other than who we already have and the future picks lined up the next few years). Injuries can happen (as we've seen this year) so being able to call on Smart and Rozier next year to step into the starting lineup if Kyrie or Brown miss some games will be invaluable.
I'd worry about Rozier the following year. Also, with the ruling on sports betting, there may be another jump in the salary cap allowing the C's to pay for everyone they already have considering the possible new revenue stream that each sports league is angling for.
You want someone who can contribute right from the start? Mikal Bridges. Just 2 years younger than Rozier, but 3 more years under the rookie scale.
We can't keep both Smart and Rozier. If Danny believes Rozier is the odd man out, now is the time to trade him. His trade value will never be higher.
we CAN keep both. that's the point. unless Smart gets a godfather offer this offseason, which I honestly don't see him getting over MLE from anyone, we have both under contract for next season. if this playoff run has shown us anything is that if we have Kyrie and Hayward added to this team next year, we're not just winning the East, we're a legitimate contenders. for me, that's worth keeping Rozier for next season regardless of the following offseason when he's an RFA. Also, don't ignore this legalized betting decision. That's going to have a real impacts to the league's income and the salary cap. each team could be looking at enough of a bump in the cap where the C's can afford both Smart and Rozier (and hopefully Kyrie's next deal as well as Brown and Tatum's paydays).
Rozier has some trade value now but we're this close to being the top roster in the league with him around next year. if the C's need backcourt scoring off the bench, they'd have Rozier. if they need D off the bench, it'd be Smart. Rozier (with Smart) also allows Brad to rest Kyrie and Brown at the same time -- a luxury he wouldn't have otherwise.
as far as trading for Mikal Bridges, he's an unproven commodity unlike Rozier. He'd be a rookie who has never experienced NBA regular season much less the playoffs where Rozier has shown he's not afraid of the spotlight. that's not something I feel can be ignored and just brushed off to assume any player can be plugged into that situation and rise to the occasion.
So basically we keep Rozier for one more season and we lose him for nothing in 2019 (unless the cap explodes). No realistic chance for a sign and trade, cause in that case we 'd still have to take back salaries. I see your point of view, but I'd rather trade him this year on draft night.
My targets would be Mo Bamba - Jaren Jackson Jr.
Rozier + #27 + Yabu + Clips 2019 protected first for the best pick we can possibly get (#6 or #7??)
If Bamba-JJJ are out of our reach, I'd be OK with Mikal Bridges as well (wouldn't give up 2 picks+Rozier+Yabu for him).
Worst case scenario, I 'd trade Rozier straight up for a pick in the late lottery with a view to draft Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
Not sold on Porter, but that's just me.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
What's up Dog? You don't want to keep this party going forever?
Seriously though like I've stated. Me probably are going to lose Terry in a year. So if you can get a high pick for him and take a big time talent cost controlled for four years, you do it.
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The continued need for people to want to accumulate assets baffles me. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and might become one of the youngest teams to ever make the Finals. We do not need more youth. You developed Rozier into an above averagestarting caliber PG. You keep him on this team.
Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
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I would love to keep Rozier on this team as well. But salary implications might make it impractical, UNLESS, Wyc is willing to pay some heavy luxury tax.
I would love to retain Rozier, Smart, and Baynes. But can we afford to keep all those guys?
The suggested return is pretty silly though. The #7 pick is just not that valuable if you go by past draftees. I would look more towards the Jrue Holiday trade as a baseline for how much to demand in return - ie a young prospect plus a mid 1st round pick.
I feel like our best move might be extending Rozier, and waiting to match Smart. Because I don't believe any team will get into a bidding war for Smart. A couple of years later, if we want to flip Rozier we have better leverage if we have more contract length on his deal and he has proven himself even more.
On the other hand. "Sell high" isn't a bad proposition either. What if the Red Sox had flipped Jackie Bradley Junior instead of waiting for him to come back down to earth this season?
Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.
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The continued need for people to want to accumulate assets baffles me. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and might become one of the youngest teams to ever make the Finals. We do not need more youth. You developed Rozier into an above averagestarting caliber PG. You keep him on this team.
Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.
Indeed.
We are where we want to be. Despite the other threads on the board today about Ainge's attempts to make mistakes in the draft, he has picked astutely.
WE DO NOT NEED TO CONTINUALLY WORK THE DRAFT. The law of diminishing returns applies here.
Nick is right. Add a big, get healthy and make a run next year. Trading Rozier for a bad back is lunacy.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.
payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)
1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000 (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000
I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.
10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857
SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!
That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.
$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785
If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019
For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:
$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.
$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold
$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25
We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.
payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)
1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000 (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000
I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.
10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857
SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!
That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.
$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785
If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019
For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:
$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.
$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785
$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25
We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
And the Celtics haven't paid the luxury for years while making big profits. The new betting laws probably just increased franchise values by a bunch. The value of the franchise increase by hundreds of millions a year.
Boston has the money to pay the tax and will if they are a championship level team because being in the Finals and being champions is a major financial windfall.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.
payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)
1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000 (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000
I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.
10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857
SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!
That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.
$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785
If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019
For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:
$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.
$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785
$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25
We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
And the Celtics haven't paid the luxury for years while making big profits. The new betting laws probably just increased franchise values by a bunch. The value of the franchise increase by hundreds of millions a year.
Boston has the money to pay the tax and will if they are a championship level team because being in the Finals and being champions is a major financial windfall.
Any chance the new betting laws will increase the cap space in a few years as well so that we could go max-FA hunting again in 2019 or 2020? 8)
(Or 2021 for you know who!)
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The continued need for people to want to accumulate assets baffles me. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and might become one of the youngest teams to ever make the Finals. We do not need more youth. You developed Rozier into an above averagestarting caliber PG. You keep him on this team.
Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.
You may be right about Rozier, but please don't act like there isn't sound logic in shopping him. Will he like playing 15 -20 minutes next year, after leading a team into the finals? Can we pay him and Smart after that if he plays this well? These are legit questions
I think its pretty clear that there is only one need left for this team, possibly for the next 5 years or so, and that is to get an understudy for Horford. He is about to turn 32 and Baynes turns 32 at the end of the year. We are stocked with young talent oozing out of every other position, but don't have a top young big.
It is a legit question to wonder if we are better off with a top big prospect that may take a few years to develop rather than deal with a major logjam for minutes at guard.
Contending teams make changes. Check out the rosters of the great Lakers and Celtics teams of the 80's. They weren't afraid to make important moves.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.
payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)
1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000 (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000
I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.
10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857
SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!
That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.
$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785
If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019
For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:
$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.
$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold
$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25
We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
That is a virtually worst case scenario for the Celtics projected salary total 2 years from now.
1. Horford could conceivably opt out of the final year of his contract and sign something like a 4 year 80 million reducing his number by maybe 12-13 million. This alone could nullify like half or more of the tax bill.
2. Rozier, Smart or anyone else could be traded for lesser salaries and/or draft picks reducing that number greatly.
3. You are also assuming the C's use all of the exception money.
4. As we stand the C's have multiple draft picks going into the 19-20 season and there are a million other things they can/could do to alleviate the tax number.
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PGs are plentiful in the NBA so hard to expect too much for just Rozier.
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PGs are plentiful in the NBA so hard to expect too much for just Rozier.
Yeah but not many with a triple doulbe at first start and 31 point the next
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.
payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)
1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000 (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000
I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.
10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857
SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!
That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.
$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785
If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019
For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:
$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.
$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold
$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25
We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
If anything you just convinced me it's possible. 6 years later under a higher cap than Brooklyn, but in line with what they did, with a squad that's definitely a contender. Take out the first MLE it slashes something like $30M right off the top.
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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks? We're in win now mode. No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.
payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)
1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000 (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000
I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.
10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857
SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!
That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.
$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785
If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019
For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:
$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.
$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold
$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25
We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
That is a virtually worst case scenario for the Celtics projected salary total 2 years from now.
1. Horford could conceivably opt out of the final year of his contract and sign something like a 4 year 80 million reducing his number by maybe 12-13 million. This alone could nullify like half or more of the tax bill.
2. Rozier, Smart or anyone else could be traded for lesser salaries and/or draft picks reducing that number greatly.
3. You are also assuming the C's use all of the exception money.
4. As we stand the C's have multiple draft picks going into the 19-20 season and there are a million other things they can/could do to alleviate the tax number.
1. Highly unlikely. Not to mention, we 'll then face even bigger problems in 2020. That's when Brown's contract kicks in.
2. The whole premise behind all this, is the argument made by nickagneta that we can re-sign both Smart and Rozier. Besides those two, there isn't anybody else to be traded.
Kyrie - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Horford are the core of this team. Semi is on a bargain contract. If the goal is to save money, it makes no sense to trade him.
3. The C's are title contenders. Of course they 'll make use of the MLE both this summer and the summer after that. It's possible that they don't use all of the exception money, I give you that.
4. Draft picks wouldn't alleviate the tax number. On the contrary they 'd make the problem even worse. I have included 3 minimum contracts for $1,603,638 each. Number 27 in the 2019 draft has a cap hold of $1,956,480. The same goes for the Clips-Grizzlies picks (assuming they convey in 2019).
Not to mention, it's possible that Smart re-signs for more than $10,000,000 per year or Rozier's first year salary starts at higher than $15,000,000. All things considered, I would argue that the $113 million figure is more or less a conservative estimate.
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I think Terry will want to start after this playoff run and may demand a trade. This will hurt his trade value for us.
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I have seen ZERO indications that Terry would ever demand a trade away from the Celtics. So I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one.
Is Terry good enough to start for one of the 30 NBA teams at the PG position? Yes.
Will Terry demand a trade? I don't get that feeling AT ALL.
Hell, look at Kawhi Leonard. All signs indicate he wants out from the Spurs. He has NEVER made a public trade demand.
Rozier doesn't show even 25% of the signs that Leonard has that he no longer wants to be with the Celtics.
I think Terry will want to start after this playoff run and may demand a trade. This will hurt his trade value for us.
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Probably too much
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Rozier with the Celtics is on borrowed time. He is going to want to be a starter. As long as Irving is here, it is not going to happen.
Nor should the Celtics spend starter money to Rozier in the future when they have to pay Brown and Tatum.
So if the Celtics can get what they perceive as value that pushes the window open either wider of longer, they will make the move.
As for the suggested trade, no way the Celtics should give up the kings pick plus Rozier for the # 7 pick. Top five pick, sure. Outside of top 5, no.
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Rozier with the Celtics is on borrowed time. He is going to want to be a starter. As long as Irving is here, it is not going to happen.
Nor should the Celtics spend starter money to Rozier in the future when they have to pay Brown and Tatum.
So if the Celtics can get what they perceive as value that pushes the window open either wider of longer, they will make the move.
As for the suggested trade, no way the Celtics should give up the kings pick plus Rozier for the # 7 pick. Top five pick, sure. Outside of top 5, no.
In a vacuum it might be too much for the # 7 pick, but this is the year to get a big guy which is what I think we most need. Ayton and Bagley won't fall that far. It's doubtful that Jackson will, but it's possible. One of Porter, Bamba, or Carter likely will. I would make that trade for any of those guys assuming Porter's medicals check out. We have a ton of picks coming and we might as well consolidate for the right player.
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I realllllly want Wendell Carter !
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I realllllly want Wendell Carter !
Me too. The other bigs may have more upside, but I can picture him fitting into our team really well. Everyone compares him to Horford, might as well have him learn from him.
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The answer is D: More than we are willing to give
Chicago is set at PG/G, so they are not likely all that interested in a Rozier or Smart +picks kind of trade. They are in the market for the same type of player we are.....front court, solid bigs, and a scoring wing to replace Butlers production.
I think Trae Young doesn't make it past Orlando, barring another team trading up with Dallas/ATL. Therefore, Chicago (with Young drafted ahead) is by default looking at one of: Bamba/Porter/Jackson/Carter/Bagley (assuming Ayton and Doncic are long gone).
Now, if Doncic were to not declare this season.....I think Boston then obviously hangs on to the SAC pick to enter that sweepstakes next season anyway, but even then, one of these bigs/wings will be available still at #7. Chicago is going to keep their "bird in hand" in this situation, IMO, unless we were offering Jaylen Brown.....and why the hell would we do that?
I think Orlando is the best/ideal trade partner for Danny to target, assuming someone leapfrogs them to take Trae Young, as they will likely be looking for a starting PG.
The most realistic trade partner though would have to be LAC, having two picks back to back. They will likely value Roziers talent as far superior to the majority of prospects they are choosing from. I think Rozier for #12 is about as good as we can expect to get, in a deep draft, where the cliff-like drop off takes place at about #14.
If we lock up Smart, and are planning on re-signing Brown/Tatum/Irving down the road, I don't see the ability to "afford" Rozier on a long-term deal that makes him happy, on top of him not being a starter either. Much better to get another cost-controlled 4-5 year deal with his value at its highest point since we have drafted him. If he had an additional year on his contract, I think he would be able to get that top-10 pick many of the homers are pining for......it's just not realistic from a fiscal perspective for any potential trade partners to do so.
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Rozier with the Celtics is on borrowed time. He is going to want to be a starter. As long as Irving is here, it is not going to happen.
Nor should the Celtics spend starter money to Rozier in the future when they have to pay Brown and Tatum.
So if the Celtics can get what they perceive as value that pushes the window open either wider of longer, they will make the move.
As for the suggested trade, no way the Celtics should give up the kings pick plus Rozier for the # 7 pick. Top five pick, sure. Outside of top 5, no.
In a vacuum it might be too much for the # 7 pick, but this is the year to get a big guy which is what I think we most need. Ayton and Bagley won't fall that far. It's doubtful that Jackson will, but it's possible. One of Porter, Bamba, or Carter likely will. I would make that trade for any of those guys assuming Porter's medicals check out. We have a ton of picks coming and we might as well consolidate for the right player.
Agreed. I like Jackson and Carter for us, and Porter could end up as good as anyone in this draft.
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I can't answer questions like this because I have no idea what will be available at #7. I do know that the C's are a little overstocked in positions 1-3 so IMO I would not want anyone playing those positions. If there is a big on the table that fits in Brad's system that Danny really likes than I would be willing to make a move.
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I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
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Rozier with the Celtics is on borrowed time. He is going to want to be a starter. As long as Irving is here, it is not going to happen.
Nor should the Celtics spend starter money to Rozier in the future when they have to pay Brown and Tatum.
So if the Celtics can get what they perceive as value that pushes the window open either wider of longer, they will make the move.
As for the suggested trade, no way the Celtics should give up the kings pick plus Rozier for the # 7 pick. Top five pick, sure. Outside of top 5, no.
It may be better to consider what the utility is of any picks for the next few years. The 2019 pick just isn't that valuable to us, even if it is for other teams.
We really only need one or two young bigs for several years out, and it is far more important to get one who could start in a few years rather than two further back in the rotation. Next year looks pretty sparse for big men. This year is an unusually good opportunity.
If we can get Carter or Jackson, I don't care about getting equal value. And trading the pick for an established big man is highly unlikely. The list of quicker NBA big men who impact on defense and have modern offensive skills is very short.
If we do trade Rozier, also using the Sac pick is a no brainer.
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If the Bulls don't like Dunn, then that's one thing.
But based on how things look, if I were the Celtics, I'd currently be looking at these picks:
#4 Griz (could use a young PG / any talent, we have their future pick)
#6 Magic (need a PG and as much draft capital as possible)
#13 Clippers (they have 2 picks in a row and could be willing to deal, we have their future pick)
#16 Suns (could use a PG if they take Ayton, they have tons of picks, could be willing to deal)
#4 gets you Jaren Jackson Jr.
#6 gets you Wendell Carter Jr.
#13 gets you BPA or the same as #16.
#16 gets you Mitchell Robinson, Jontay Porter or BPA.
To me Wendell Carter Jr at 19 is like Horford at 21, and Jontay Porter I'm not sold on but he does seem like a poor man's Horford. He's only 19 but is a legit 6'11" and can shoot the 3, has a nice mid-range game and some post-up ability, can pass / rack up assists, rebound, and he gets almost 2 blocks a game in under 25 mins a night. He's a very versatile, skilled 7 footer.
He just never dunks, explodes at the rim, or drives into the paint. Not sure how problematic these issues are, but it doesn't seem like a death sentence based on his size / skills.
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I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
TP
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I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
Rozier will only make a difference next year if Kyrie or Jaylen gets hurt for an extended period, or if the team lets Smart go. Otherwise, it hardly matters at all. And its hard to see how we keep him or get anything out him after that.
Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter might only play limited minutes next year too. But after that, you have a very good chance of having a quality big for the long term.
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Haven’t read the whole thread, but gotta say: You can’t have too many good guards in this league. I say keep Rozier for now and see what happens. Lotta time.
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I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
Rozier will only make a difference next year if Kyrie or Jaylen gets hurt for an extended period, or if the team lets Smart go. Otherwise, it hardly matters at all. And its hard to see how we keep him or get anything out him after that.
Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter might only play limited minutes next year too. But after that, you have a very good chance of having a quality big for the long term.
My point is that we aren't getting Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter for Terry Rozier and future picks. This, the question is what sort of impact do you think a guy like Robert Williams would make?
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The only way I think we should explore this is if Mohamed Bamba is available at #7, which is highly unlikely.
His defensive potential and the fact that he can develop a shooting stroke should be worth trading Rozier and maybe the #27 pick and a couple 2nds for it. No way we should include the SacTo pick.
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what is so great about the 7 th pick , how do you know who will be there. , is number 7 better than #1 Irving ?
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Good topic mate.
I think we'd need to give up Rozier and a future pick. Or Rozier+our own first rounder.
I'd be willing to roll the dice if Bamba falls there.
Could be the defensive anchor we'd build around for a decade.
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Good topic mate.
I think we'd need to give up Rozier and a future pick. Or Rozier+our own first rounder.
I'd be willing to roll the dice if Bamba falls there.
Could be the defensive anchor we'd build around for a decade.
If there is a big man there the Celtics think will help, I agree. (wouldn't give up the Sac pick with Rozier at that point)
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Good topic mate.
I think we'd need to give up Rozier and a future pick. Or Rozier+our own first rounder.
I'd be willing to roll the dice if Bamba falls there.
Could be the defensive anchor we'd build around for a decade.
If there is a big man there the Celtics think will help, I agree. (wouldn't give up the Sac pick with Rozier at that point)
Rozier, #27, Sac pick for #6 to draft Wendell Carter (or I guess Bamba).
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Good topic mate.
I think we'd need to give up Rozier and a future pick. Or Rozier+our own first rounder.
I'd be willing to roll the dice if Bamba falls there.
Could be the defensive anchor we'd build around for a decade.
If there is a big man there the Celtics think will help, I agree. (wouldn't give up the Sac pick with Rozier at that point)
Yeah, we're going to need that Sacramento pick for a potential Davis trade (or any other opps that come up). Giving up Rozier and that pick is too much considering it could be the #1 or #2 pick in a loaded draft.
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Good topic mate.
I think we'd need to give up Rozier and a future pick. Or Rozier+our own first rounder.
I'd be willing to roll the dice if Bamba falls there.
Could be the defensive anchor we'd build around for a decade.
I don't think that gets the job done. As a starter, Rozier is #14-17 of the 32 PGs in the league (Yes, that's an estimate. Insert your own choice, but there's no way he's in the top-10.) To get a #7 pick in a loaded draft, we'd need to offer something more than a mid-tier PG and late first-rounder. I don't even think Rozier + Memphis gets it done.
I still believe, though, that Orlando's #6 is the pick that we should go after, not Chicago at #7. The Bulls have Kris Dunn. Why would they pay through the nose for Terry Rozier?
Mike
Mike
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I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
Rozier will only make a difference next year if Kyrie or Jaylen gets hurt for an extended period, or if the team lets Smart go. Otherwise, it hardly matters at all. And its hard to see how we keep him or get anything out him after that.
Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter might only play limited minutes next year too. But after that, you have a very good chance of having a quality big for the long term.
My point is that we aren't getting Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter for Terry Rozier and future picks. This, the question is what sort of impact do you think a guy like Robert Williams would make?
I don't understand why you insist that Rozier and the Sac pick couldn't get you there. You might have to throw another pick in too, but that is a pretty good haul for a #6 or #7 pick. If I were Orlando, I'd make that deal.
The Sac pick really isn't very valuable to us unless we can turn it into a future big prospect. We just don't need anything else.
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I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
Rozier will only make a difference next year if Kyrie or Jaylen gets hurt for an extended period, or if the team lets Smart go. Otherwise, it hardly matters at all. And its hard to see how we keep him or get anything out him after that.
Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter might only play limited minutes next year too. But after that, you have a very good chance of having a quality big for the long term.
My point is that we aren't getting Jaren Jackson or Wendell Carter for Terry Rozier and future picks. This, the question is what sort of impact do you think a guy like Robert Williams would make?
I don't understand why you insist that Rozier and the Sac pick couldn't get you there. You might have to throw another pick in too, but that is a pretty good haul for a #6 or #7 pick. If I were Orlando, I'd make that deal.
The Sac pick really isn't very valuable to us unless we can turn it into a future big prospect. We just don't need anything else.
Like a parrot, I will repeat that I'd do Rozier, Sac 19 and #27 for #6. The salary balances out and to me this is contingent on several factors:
1) We don't have the minutes for all our guards, and we should resign Smart based on value.
2) While Rozier as a starter is great, Rozier playing in 15 mins off the bench isn't the same.
3) With Semi, Yabu, and likely Bird on board, we don't have room for all our upcoming picks.
4) Carter Jr compares favorably to Al when Al was 1-2 years older and should be there at #6.
5) Carter Jr should be ready to play 15-18 mins right away and has all star potential at PF/C.
If any of these 5 things aren't true, then I wouldn't want to offer so much to acquire the #6 pick. But right now, I believe these 5 things are true, so I wouldn't rule it out.