Rondo....please explain

[Bankshot]

actually i dont.. if youre talking bout bynum then theres no way that bynum would block rondo's one man fastbreak the way smith and bron did

Bynum may not, but Farmar and Kobe may.

farmer wont, and i hope kob is in a postion to, that means he's not on pierce, who i belive is the key to this series. I'd rather pierce go against rad than kobe, kobe can actualy slow him down.

Kobe hasn't been able to stop Pierce before, why do you think he can do it now?  Kobe is much better than Paul, sure, and a good defensive player too, but Paul is bigger and stronger than Kobe, which is probably why Kobe has a hard time stopping him.  Lebron is probably the only SF bigger and stronger and Pierce.

[plasmaPG]

By looking at numbers no one can get an accurate read on just how Rondo impacts a game.  this is why so often he is picked as a weak link by other teams.IMO, Fisher Rondo matchup is huge for the C's.  I say we win this one everytime.  Fischer will not get those open looks, as they will be challanged.


Rondo is all about tempo.  When the ball is n his hands and the game is a certain speed he is a killer.  Not by scoring but by his multifacited game.

LA will make the mistake of trying to run with the C's and pay.

As for Atlanta Bibby late season arrival made that a different team.  Also young athletic teams gave the C's good games all season.  Look at how tough Charlotte played them and look at there record.

The Cavs size and bulk gave the C's trouble.  The pistons were banged up.  they had to shoot phenomenal to have a chance against the C's.

I see the Lakers presenting no such problem.  In fact I would even say Bynum vs. KG is a better matchup for LA then Gasol is.  Gasol is a jumpshooter and opportunistic scorer.  KG negates those type of players.

The reason LA beat the spurs so easily was the injury to Ginobli.  That team without a healty Manu is not the same.  Look at the one game he played well.  Very similar to Rip being warn down in the second half of game 6.

The C's beat the Nuggets early in the year when both teams played like it mattered by about 50.

Utah suprised me but I think that was in large part to the way Boozer played.

I must have missed something watching the boston games, but when has Boston ever considered a "running" type team.  The best Boston type of style is the slow it down, grind it out 85-78 games where their defense dominates.  You do know that the Lakers are young and athletic, right?  I would be chomping at the bits if Boston wants to play a running offensive minded style.  The lakers would run them out of the building as they were the second best offense team this year..

[seccom]

josh smith swatted lots of his shots esp fastbreaks.. so did lebron.. tayshaun bothered him on the break too.. who would do that for the lakers?

I looked up the block number of both teams and Atlanta's stat for the playoff.

Smith is highest individual shot blocker with 2.86 average.
Gasol - 2.47
Odom - 1.40
Perkins - 1.35
Turiaf - 1.15
Garnett - 1.15

As a team, Celtics average 4.4, Lakers average 6.13, Atlanta average 5.71.

If Rondo get blocked by Atlanta, he will have the same issue with the Lakers.

[goz421]

By looking at numbers no one can get an accurate read on just how Rondo impacts a game.  this is why so often he is picked as a weak link by other teams.IMO, Fisher Rondo matchup is huge for the C's.  I say we win this one everytime.  Fischer will not get those open looks, as they will be challanged.


Rondo is all about tempo.  When the ball is n his hands and the game is a certain speed he is a killer.  Not by scoring but by his multifacited game.

LA will make the mistake of trying to run with the C's and pay.

As for Atlanta Bibby late season arrival made that a different team.  Also young athletic teams gave the C's good games all season.  Look at how tough Charlotte played them and look at there record.

The Cavs size and bulk gave the C's trouble.  The pistons were banged up.  they had to shoot phenomenal to have a chance against the C's.

I see the Lakers presenting no such problem.  In fact I would even say Bynum vs. KG is a better matchup for LA then Gasol is.  Gasol is a jumpshooter and opportunistic scorer.  KG negates those type of players.

The reason LA beat the spurs so easily was the injury to Ginobli.  That team without a healty Manu is not the same.  Look at the one game he played well.  Very similar to Rip being warn down in the second half of game 6.

The C's beat the Nuggets early in the year when both teams played like it mattered by about 50.

Utah suprised me but I think that was in large part to the way Boozer played.

I must have missed something watching the boston games, but when has Boston ever considered a "running" type team.  The best Boston type of style is the slow it down, grind it out 85-78 games where their defense dominates.  You do know that the Lakers are young and athletic, right?  I would be chomping at the bits if Boston wants to play a running offensive minded style.  The lakers would run them out of the building as they were the second best offense team this year..

You really don't know this C's team do you.  That will be the Lakers undoing.  The strength of Rondo is in the C's secondary fast break.  If we get good defensive sets and get the ball in Rondo's hands that is where the C's become most dangerous.  He always makes good decisions in these situations.  The Lakers style plays right into it.  This is also where all out good shooters get the open looks.  Posey, Pierce, Allen, House, and occasionally Cassell.

How does a 66 win team which swept the other team and did very good against the west become the underdog.  Only in the world of television analyst where they look back only so far and do not see the big picture.

I would be very scared if I where a Laker fan.  Karma is going to get ya!  beat LA!!!!

[Hoops]

I must have missed something watching the boston games, but when has Boston ever considered a "running" type team.  The best Boston type of style is the slow it down, grind it out 85-78 games where their defense dominates.  You do know that the Lakers are young and athletic, right?  I would be chomping at the bits if Boston wants to play a running offensive minded style.  The lakers would run them out of the building as they were the second best offense team this year..

In the playoffs, Boston has been forced to win some grind out games against Cleveland and Detroit, but that's not necessarily how they played all year. The beauty of Boston is that they can play fast or slow. If I recall, they put up well over 100 points both time they played (and beat) LA this year.

Also, it's a fallacy to assume that if Boston wants to run that LA would run Boston out of the building. If the Celtics play their game, they'll look to run whenever there's a good opportunity, but they'll also crash the boards and defend like hell to prevent LA from running as much as they want to.

[plasmaPG]

By looking at numbers no one can get an accurate read on just how Rondo impacts a game.  this is why so often he is picked as a weak link by other teams.IMO, Fisher Rondo matchup is huge for the C's.  I say we win this one everytime.  Fischer will not get those open looks, as they will be challanged.


Rondo is all about tempo.  When the ball is n his hands and the game is a certain speed he is a killer.  Not by scoring but by his multifacited game.

LA will make the mistake of trying to run with the C's and pay.

As for Atlanta Bibby late season arrival made that a different team.  Also young athletic teams gave the C's good games all season.  Look at how tough Charlotte played them and look at there record.

The Cavs size and bulk gave the C's trouble.  The pistons were banged up.  they had to shoot phenomenal to have a chance against the C's.

I see the Lakers presenting no such problem.  In fact I would even say Bynum vs. KG is a better matchup for LA then Gasol is.  Gasol is a jumpshooter and opportunistic scorer.  KG negates those type of players.

The reason LA beat the spurs so easily was the injury to Ginobli.  That team without a healty Manu is not the same.  Look at the one game he played well.  Very similar to Rip being warn down in the second half of game 6.

The C's beat the Nuggets early in the year when both teams played like it mattered by about 50.

Utah suprised me but I think that was in large part to the way Boozer played.

I must have missed something watching the boston games, but when has Boston ever considered a "running" type team.  The best Boston type of style is the slow it down, grind it out 85-78 games where their defense dominates.  You do know that the Lakers are young and athletic, right?  I would be chomping at the bits if Boston wants to play a running offensive minded style.  The lakers would run them out of the building as they were the second best offense team this year..

You really don't know this C's team do you.  That will be the Lakers undoing.  The strength of Rondo is in the C's secondary fast break.  If we get good defensive sets and get the ball in Rondo's hands that is where the C's become most dangerous.  He always makes good decisions in these situations.  The Lakers style plays right into it.  This is also where all out good shooters get the open looks.  Posey, Pierce, Allen, House, and occasionally Cassell.

How does a 66 win team which swept the other team and did very good against the west become the underdog.  Only in the world of television analyst where they look back only so far and do not see the big picture.

I would be very scared if I where a Laker fan.  Karma is going to get ya!  beat LA!!!!

We all know the Laker team that you guys wallop twice is not the same team it is now.  The team now consists of MVP Kobe and Gasol.  And we all know that regular season wins doesn't do much except to give you home court, ask Dallas last year. 

The laker team went 12-3 beating 50, 54, 56 win teams while you guys went 12-8 beating a 37, 45, and 59 win teams.  Now granted, Boston has played much much better than they did in the ATL series. 

[Redz]

josh smith swatted lots of his shots esp fastbreaks.. so did lebron.. tayshaun bothered him on the break too.. who would do that for the lakers?

I looked up the block number of both teams and Atlanta's stat for the playoff.

Smith is highest individual shot blocker with 2.86 average.
Gasol - 2.47
Odom - 1.40
Perkins - 1.35
Turiaf - 1.15
Garnett - 1.15

As a team, Celtics average 4.4, Lakers average 6.13, Atlanta average 5.71.

If Rondo get blocked by Atlanta, he will have the same issue with the Lakers.

Smith is just a freak blocker.  From what I've seen, at least half of his blocks come by seemingly being out of the play , then leaping out of the building from behind and swatting the hell out of an unsuspecting layup shooter.  Who, on LA, blocks like that?  Who, in the rest of the NBA blocks like that? 

Camby?  He does it more with length and timing.

Rondo has definitely shied away from taking to the glass though, because he's afraid of the block.  That does worry me some. 

[Hoops]

We all know the Laker team that you guys wallop twice is not the same team it is now.  The team now consists of MVP Kobe and Gasol.  And we all know that regular season wins doesn't do much except to give you home court, ask Dallas last year. 

The laker team went 12-3 beating 50, 54, 56 win teams while you guys went 12-8 beating a 37, 45, and 59 win teams.  Now granted, Boston has played much much better than they did in the ATL series. 

Wait, how is "MVP" Kobe any different than the pre-"MVP" Kobe we played earlier in the year? Nevermind, I digress...

The thing Laker fans don't appreciate is that if they're going to win the series, they'll have to do it in 5 games. I assure you Boston will not lose a game 6 or 7 at home. To win in 5 games, LA will have to steal one in Boston (very possible, but not likely) and then win 3 straight in LA. This Boston team has too much pride to lose 3 straight - won't happen.

[seccom]

josh smith swatted lots of his shots esp fastbreaks.. so did lebron.. tayshaun bothered him on the break too.. who would do that for the lakers?

I looked up the block number of both teams and Atlanta's stat for the playoff.

Smith is highest individual shot blocker with 2.86 average.
Gasol - 2.47
Odom - 1.40
Perkins - 1.35
Turiaf - 1.15
Garnett - 1.15

As a team, Celtics average 4.4, Lakers average 6.13, Atlanta average 5.71.

If Rondo get blocked by Atlanta, he will have the same issue with the Lakers.

Smith is just a freak blocker.  From what I've seen, at least half of his blocks come by seemingly being out of the play , then leaping out of the building from behind and swatting the hell out of an unsuspecting layup shooter.  Who, on LA, blocks like that?  Who, in the rest of the NBA blocks like that? 

Camby?  He does it more with length and timing.

Rondo has definitely shied away from taking to the glass though, because he's afraid of the block.  That does worry me some. 

Actually, in one case during the Spurs series, Farmar did. But that is the only block he had.

So the answer is probably not. But the truth is, as I saw it, Atlanta played undiscipline basketball to put themselves in that position in the first place.

However, Lakers is probably the best shot blocking team that the Celtics face in this playoff and Rondo will not have a free drive to the basketball.

[goz421]

By looking at numbers no one can get an accurate read on just how Rondo impacts a game.  this is why so often he is picked as a weak link by other teams.IMO, Fisher Rondo matchup is huge for the C's.  I say we win this one everytime.  Fischer will not get those open looks, as they will be challanged.


Rondo is all about tempo.  When the ball is n his hands and the game is a certain speed he is a killer.  Not by scoring but by his multifacited game.

LA will make the mistake of trying to run with the C's and pay.

As for Atlanta Bibby late season arrival made that a different team.  Also young athletic teams gave the C's good games all season.  Look at how tough Charlotte played them and look at there record.

The Cavs size and bulk gave the C's trouble.  The pistons were banged up.  they had to shoot phenomenal to have a chance against the C's.

I see the Lakers presenting no such problem.  In fact I would even say Bynum vs. KG is a better matchup for LA then Gasol is.  Gasol is a jumpshooter and opportunistic scorer.  KG negates those type of players.

The reason LA beat the spurs so easily was the injury to Ginobli.  That team without a healty Manu is not the same.  Look at the one game he played well.  Very similar to Rip being warn down in the second half of game 6.

The C's beat the Nuggets early in the year when both teams played like it mattered by about 50.

Utah suprised me but I think that was in large part to the way Boozer played.

I must have missed something watching the boston games, but when has Boston ever considered a "running" type team.  The best Boston type of style is the slow it down, grind it out 85-78 games where their defense dominates.  You do know that the Lakers are young and athletic, right?  I would be chomping at the bits if Boston wants to play a running offensive minded style.  The lakers would run them out of the building as they were the second best offense team this year..

You really don't know this C's team do you.  That will be the Lakers undoing.  The strength of Rondo is in the C's secondary fast break.  If we get good defensive sets and get the ball in Rondo's hands that is where the C's become most dangerous.  He always makes good decisions in these situations.  The Lakers style plays right into it.  This is also where all out good shooters get the open looks.  Posey, Pierce, Allen, House, and occasionally Cassell.

How does a 66 win team which swept the other team and did very good against the west become the underdog.  Only in the world of television analyst where they look back only so far and do not see the big picture.

I would be very scared if I where a Laker fan.  Karma is going to get ya!  beat LA!!!!

We all know the Laker team that you guys wallop twice is not the same team it is now.  The team now consists of MVP Kobe and Gasol.  And we all know that regular season wins doesn't do much except to give you home court, ask Dallas last year. 

The laker team went 12-3 beating 50, 54, 56 win teams while you guys went 12-8 beating a 37, 45, and 59 win teams.  Now granted, Boston has played much much better than they did in the ATL series. 

This what the pundits are basing there analysis on and I'm smiling because they are way off.  Playoffs often comes down to how teams matchup.  We have already compared how KG dominates Gasol.  Now that swap of Bynum and Gasol to the C's means very little.  May even play in there favor.  If you watched the Atlanta series.  In Atlanta Smith outplayed Garnett.  I do not see that happening with Gasol.  Plus Ray is a different player now.  IMO. watching the games, I say both Ray and KG were playing through some minor bumps and bruises which by the Pistons game are not evident anymore.

Also how do you explain how well Boston did against the West this year.  Many western teams had better records then the east, but remember they have different schedules.  Both the Piston and C's gathered up  lot of those wins in the east.

Boston beat in 6 Detroit who had the second best record.

[BballTim]

josh smith swatted lots of his shots esp fastbreaks.. so did lebron.. tayshaun bothered him on the break too.. who would do that for the lakers?

I looked up the block number of both teams and Atlanta's stat for the playoff.

Smith is highest individual shot blocker with 2.86 average.
Gasol - 2.47
Odom - 1.40
Perkins - 1.35
Turiaf - 1.15
Garnett - 1.15

As a team, Celtics average 4.4, Lakers average 6.13, Atlanta average 5.71.

If Rondo get blocked by Atlanta, he will have the same issue with the Lakers.

Smith is just a freak blocker.  From what I've seen, at least half of his blocks come by seemingly being out of the play , then leaping out of the building from behind and swatting the hell out of an unsuspecting layup shooter.  Who, on LA, blocks like that?  Who, in the rest of the NBA blocks like that? 

Camby?  He does it more with length and timing.

Rondo has definitely shied away from taking to the glass though, because he's afraid of the block.  That does worry me some. 

Actually, in one case during the Spurs series, Farmar did. But that is the only block he had.

So the answer is probably not. But the truth is, as I saw it, Atlanta played undiscipline basketball to put themselves in that position in the first place.

However, Lakers is probably the best shot blocking team that the Celtics face in this playoff and Rondo will not have a free drive to the basketball.

  Detroit and Atlanta both have better shot blocking teams than LA and Cleveland isn't far behind.

[seccom]

Blocking stat in this playoff:

Suns: 7.00 Opp 5.00
Lakers: 6.13 Opp 4.53
Detroit: 5.83 Opp 3.94
Atlanta: 5.71 Opp 5.71
Cleveland: 4.84 Opp 4.23
Boston: 4.40 Opp 5.50

[BballTim]

  Blocking stat in the season:

  Detroit 5.76
  Atlanta 5.46
  Lakers  5.34
  Cleveland 5.2

  The playoffs are too small a sample size against too few opponents.

[plasmaPG]

We all know the Laker team that you guys wallop twice is not the same team it is now.  The team now consists of MVP Kobe and Gasol.  And we all know that regular season wins doesn't do much except to give you home court, ask Dallas last year. 

The laker team went 12-3 beating 50, 54, 56 win teams while you guys went 12-8 beating a 37, 45, and 59 win teams.  Now granted, Boston has played much much better than they did in the ATL series. 

Wait, how is "MVP" Kobe any different than the pre-"MVP" Kobe we played earlier in the year? Nevermind, I digress...

The thing Laker fans don't appreciate is that if they're going to win the series, they'll have to do it in 5 games. I assure you Boston will not lose a game 6 or 7 at home. To win in 5 games, LA will have to steal one in Boston (very possible, but not likely) and then win 3 straight in LA. This Boston team has too much pride to lose 3 straight - won't happen.

Yes, I believe there really is a difference between Nov-Dec Kobe and May-June Kobe.  In Nov-Dec, Kobe had to pass the ball to Kwame brown who would fumble the ball and make it a turn over.  Now he can pass the ball to Gasol for an easy dunk or layoff, big difference.  Also, Gasol has made the game much easier for Odom and his all around skills.

I will agree that the 2-3-2 format favors Boston because it would be really had for LA to win 3 in a row or win games 6,7 at boston.

[Tommy Gun]

plasmaPG asked:


I know that Rondo is faster than Fisher but so was AI and Tony Parker.  Can someone explain why Rondo will the difference maker?  Everyone seems to say, "You haven't seen Rondo yet"..etc
Well, the Lakers have seen the 3 of the 5 best PGs in the league this playoffs.  Can someone point out why Rondo will give us fits and why he is better that AI, TP and Deron.....

Basically, I think, Rondo was a pleasant surprise.  He is overachieving given his position in the draft.  He has shown flashes that he will be a competent PG in this league.  And he can play solid defense.  He has quickness and good ball handling among his qualities.  However, I do understand where you're coming from.  I want the Celtics to win, but I must admit that I see nothing spectacular about Rondo, when you look at him as a complete player.  He has very good qualities, like his quickness and defense, plus competent ball handling.  But he is not the ideal, traditional PG.  His below average proficiency shooting from a distance is a handicap, not being a strong finisher, and his penchant for mistakes (which hopefully we will see less of as he matures) are keeping him from being a model PG.  

Now, why do some people around here believe he's the "difference-maker"?  That, I believe is just fandom.  Personally, all I look for out of Rondo in this series is good defense of the perimeter and to bring the ball into play.  I don't believe Rondo will "dominate" Fisher at all.  That's unlikely, for the reasons that you stated.  But you are on a Celtics fan site, so you can understand why some of the fans are biased and may not be seeing the whole picture about a particular Celtic player that they like.  I suspect a lot of these big Rondo fans were the same guys that were dazzled with Marcus Banks a few years ago.  A young guy, with lots of speed and quickness, and that's all it takes to win the hearts of some fans.  They quickly forget the shortcomings.  Banks, ofcourse, turned out to be a dud.  Rondo looks like he'll turn into a decent PG, with some upsides and some downsides to bring to the table.  But yeah, I do not see Rondo having his way with Fisher.  Yes, he may beat Fisher off the dribble on occasions, but what will Rondo do once he gets inside, surrounded by a seven-footer and two 6'10s?  On top of that, he's not a great finishes.  No doubt Fisher will also light him up with a three-pointer here and there.  Rondo will have a few highlight plays, but Fisher's overall steadiness will probaby go unnoticed, but will make a difference in the game.

I think you miss the point of Rondo's talent..Fisher can't guard him and Rondo will play lock down D on Fisher..Rondo is an excellent at driving and has developed a great floater it does'nt always go but so what..If he can penatrte and dish that is huge..Many games rondo was the Cog that made the Celtics go he has to get assisits and play D and rebound and set the tempo..Not score 30

We don't need him to be Deron Williams or Chris Paul..Rondo will be a star in this league sorry you can't see that.