Political correctness on CelticsBlog...

[ScoobyDoo]

Hi Roy, point taken with respect to this particular board and I'll refrain from doing it again as you wish and I understand why you request it.

But my personal opinion?... the world could use a lot more political incorrectness and go back to a time when people could actually talk to each without without every minutia of what every person says being so incredibly scrutinized so as not to - GOD FORBID - "offend" anyone, which results in the inevitable lawsuit because someone said "boo!" to me...

I think everyone would be a lot better served by taking their diapers off and be sophisticated enough to understand the difference between literal and figurative interpretation. The point was that men are generally bigger and stronger by their sheer body weight and gender than women are.

This being said, most women are actually tougher than men in a lot of ways. I prefaced the statement and admitted I'd been knocked out by all of my three sisters - that is not a lie. Because I've been knocked out by three women, should we assume that I am an effeminate male? If one assumed that, that person would obviously have not met my sisters. However, it is safer, I suppose, that I say "effeminate" than "gay" because - GOD FORBID - I offend anyone by using the word "Gay"...

The point was that men are "supposed" to be much more, maybe this is better, "rough and tumble" and able to body slam each other around the romper room, moreso than women typically do, and therefore, they should be willing to get into a fist fight on the court. This is not to say that women aren't every bit as able to be rough and tumble and also toss each other around the romper room...Oh crap, I just realised I said "fist fight", is that terroristic? What I meant was they should be above average in aggression of a physical sort so as to appear more like men on the court but not so male that they might offend the female sex...or make them feel intimidated, etc...

I respect you and your request and won't ever post along those lines again, but honestly, give up...

Hopefully expressing my frustration with the manic need to be politically correct in today's world won't be received as politically incorrect to you or this board.
    

[Roy H.]

I moved this to comments and remarks and changed the thread title.  If you want to have a public discussion on it, that's fine with me; if you'd prefer to take it to PMs, that's fine, too.

Here's the original thread:  Link.

Now, seriously, what added value did all the sexist stereotypes give your thread?  It's not "politically correct", it's using words that don't alienate 50% of the human population.  

[Rondo9dunx]

Agree with you 100% but on this particular forum you're essentially wasting your breath. You can't say anything here without someone telling you that what you said was offensive. I guess they gotta keep it clean tho, cant lose that ad revenue.

[Roy H.]

Agree with you 100% but on this particular forum you're essentially wasting your breath. You can't say anything here without someone telling you that what you said was offensive. I guess they gotta keep it clean tho, cant lose that ad revenue.

Is the only reason to ask for a respectful environment free from stereotypes to increase ad revenue?

[indeedproceed]

heaven forbid an actual forum have a set of moral values that strives to create an atmosphere that's family friendly.

look, sometimes I wanna swear, I wanna post jokes that are at best sexual innuendos. my facebook page is littered with this kind of stuff.

but you know, that's got its own place, and it ain't here.
sorry?

[Kiorrik]

Preface (but important):

My name is Dirk van Boxtel. I'm from the Netherlands, though I recently moved to Sydney, Australia. Back in the Netherlands however, we're quite liberal. We're also a heck of a lot better at coming up with good ways to call people names, thus I'm used to a lot.

In everyday life, I cuss like a sailor. I'm serious. My girlfriend has to leash me some of the time because I love dropping the f-bomb every other second. One of my favorite films ever, Boondock Saints, has a scene where one of the three main characters (Rocco) drops the F-bomb about 50 times in a single monologue that lasts a minute tops - that's what I sound like on a daily basis.

What I'm going to say next, might offend you. Mainly because I have a "Moderator" title, which means I'm "one of them", but also because it's a very blunt, rude, and crude statement. I would actually go so far as to say that most of the mods will not like this post, because of how it ends. It's a very harsh reality, but I'd like you to consider it. I'm not asking people to do something, I'm asking people to NOT do something.



The point I'm trying to make, aka "my two cents":

The world consists of humans, forming "circles". Every "circle" of people has their own morals, values and ways of going about everyday life. For example, a certain circle of gay men might find the word "Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline." appaling, where another group of equally gay men, might find it a funny word, and use it all the time in reference to eachother.

And here is what it all boils down to:

This is the CelticsBlog circle, where this kind of wording is frowned upon.

Adjust... or go somewhere else.





ps.: I think, with the way we control language here, we're actually doing a good job at motivating people to speak "differently" and there's a great deal of class amongst its members. That is why I'm here. That is why I like CelticsBlog.

So yes, I adjusted my language and try not to step on other people's toes too much.

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree there is a proper time and place for everything. Perhaps this is not the place to use figurative metaphors that might potenatilly offend some segment of the population.

Perhaps it is also a place where anyone who might have been offended could actually stand up for themselves and say "hey ScoobyDoo, you know, I'm a woman and that really offended me and I think you're a complete ass clown"... to which I could then say "you know what, I'm really sorry, it wasn't meant to offend you and I apologize, it probably came off the wrong way and I'll refrain from doing it again"....that would actually be called healthy communication.

After this exchange, we could get some Bon Bons, go ride the merry go round and be BFF's, all the while assuming that no one will ever punch us in the nose on the playground ever, ever again...It will be sort of like a Utopian world where an all knowing, omnipotent presence protects all of us from everything all the time.

Aahhh, I get it, whatever - I'll keep everything ultra neutral, ultra clean and ultra sterile. It just won't feel as good as whne dropping the F bomb is really the only way to express a certain feeling...       

[PosImpos]

I find that disdaining and lamenting the prevalence of "political correctness" in our society is usually just a method that people use to justify ignorant and unimaginative word choice.

Similar to the way that people will say "no offense" right before they say something that is clearly offensive and insensitive.

I also appreciate the irony of the original poster implying that a person would be unsophisticated if they were to take offense to a negative use of the word "gay," as if tolerating homophobia (or sexism, or racism) were the same thing as sophistication.

Bottom line, there's no such thing as "soft" intolerance or bigotry.  When you use ignorant terminology you are supporting ignorance, regardless of your intended meaning or personal opinions.


That doesn't mean you're a bad person if you slip up and use a term like that, as long as it's without malicious intent.  But you should be ready and willing to apologize and correct your mistake, and also keep an open mind. 

If you don't understand why something is against the rules, give the mods (or other posters) a chance to explain them to you.  At the end of the day, accept that the rules are what they are, they are there for a reason, and they are probably not going to change.

[Kiorrik]

I agree there is a proper time and place for everything. Perhaps this is not the place to use figurative metaphors that might potenatilly offend some segment of the population.

Perhaps it is also a place where anyone who might have been offended could actually stand up for themselves and say "hey ScoobyDoo, you know, I'm a woman and that really offended me and I think you're a complete ass clown"... to which I could then say "you know what, I'm really sorry, it wasn't meant to offend you and I apologize, it probably came off the wrong way and I'll refrain from doing it again"....that would actually be called healthy communication.

After this exchange, we could get some Bon Bons, go ride the merry go round and be BFF's, all the while assuming that no one will ever punch us in the nose on the playground ever, ever again...It will be sort of like a Utopian world where an all knowing, omnipotent presence protects all of us from everything all the time.

Aahhh, I get it, whatever - I'll keep everything ultra neutral, ultra clean and ultra sterile. It just won't feel as good as whne dropping the F bomb is really the only way to express a certain feeling...       

See but that's just not fair to the people who don't think the F-bomb is enough, and who's normal reaction would be punching someone in the face.

I know that's not possible over the internet, but that's the context you should see it in: we're people and this is a form of communication. If you don't like this form of communication (CB) then you're free to use any other form. Should you choose (and I do hope so) to use CB, you're kind of inclined to follow the simple rules: no f-bomb, easy on the cussing, etc.

[wahz]

The fact that moderators here are aggressive and will often delete posts and topics that are close to THEIR line is an ongoing problem. The censorship, in my opinion, is quite incredible. I have no doubt that many of us would be ecstatic to have a different place to go but we have little choice. Additionally at least a couple mods are confrontational with posters in a "go ahead and push me" kind of manner. Its awesome.

Meanwhile there are websites on sb nation where almost everything goes. So we know its not them.

[action781]

Aahhh, I get it, whatever - I'll keep everything ultra neutral, ultra clean and ultra sterile. It just won't feel as good as whne dropping the F bomb is really the only way to express a certain feeling...      

My ex's dad is a brilliant physics PhD and says, "People swear because they're too lazy or not intelligent enough to think of a better way to describe how they feel about something."

Don't get me wrong; I still swear.  I found what he said somewhat elitist at first.  But I respect the guy a lot and after a while, I always think about that and I think there is quite a bit of truth to it.  You can always express yourself without swearing.  Always.  I didn't think so at first, and if you don't think so, try it for a few months.  You'll change your mind.  It has changed the way I try to speak when I'm serious about trying to present an argument.

[barefacedmonk]

Meanwhile there are websites on sb nation where almost everything goes. So we know its not them.

CelticsBlog is a "product". Jeff's product...it comes with term and conditions...which you agreed to before using this site. If you or anybody else has a problem with the rules and conditions..then there are other sites that allow cussing and whatever else that you think is necessary to make your point.

[MBz]

I understand what you're saying, but this isn't a bar.  This is a forum where you can have intelligent, well thought out conversations about the Celtics.  That's one of my favorite parts about it.  I've been at sports bar where people are screaming at each other in disagreement, heck, I've been in that moment with my friends.  Here it doesn't happen though, and it's pretty cool.  Arguments are talked through and people make their points.  Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, sometimes you're neither, it happens.  I read your original post which you are talking about.  A lot of the points you made were great, but the metaphors you used weren't necessary.  You could have easily used a word like soft instead of comparing them to girls.  When I was working with kids who were aged 13-15, I learned to really be careful with what I was saying.  The kids I worked with were always a diverse group of kids usually with not much money.  With these kids, it usually wasn't about being PC, but more just trying to eliminate stereotypes from them because that is all they ever saw.  From stereotypes about race, status, intelligence, they heard them all, and it gets to a point where a lot of these kids embraced them for good or bad.  On this blog you don't really see the stereotypes, obviously that's not how the real world is or will ever be, but finding a place that doesn't allow them to occur is pretty nice for a change.  Gotta give these guys credit, they do a good job in terms of keeping everything clean here.

[manbehindtheman]

The fact that moderators here are aggressive and will often delete posts and topics that are close to THEIR line is an ongoing problem. The censorship, in my opinion, is quite incredible. I have no doubt that many of us would be ecstatic to have a different place to go but we have little choice. Additionally at least a couple mods are confrontational with posters in a "go ahead and push me" kind of manner. Its awesome.

Meanwhile there are websites on sb nation where almost everything goes. So we know its not them.

Bingo!

[Roy H.]

The fact that moderators here are aggressive and will often delete posts and topics that are close to THEIR line is an ongoing problem. The censorship, in my opinion, is quite incredible. I have no doubt that many of us would be ecstatic to have a different place to go but we have little choice. Additionally at least a couple mods are confrontational with posters in a "go ahead and push me" kind of manner. Its awesome.

Meanwhile there are websites on sb nation where almost everything goes. So we know its not them.

I agree with a lot of this:

1.  The staff here is pretty active in enforcing the rules, including locking and deleting topics;

2.  CelticsBlog does have its own set of rules;

3.  These rules may seem too restrictive to some, and arbitrary to some others;

4. There are more liberal blogs elsewhere.

When people come here, they're given a choice:  do I want to abide by the "family friendly, respect others at all times" rules of the site, or don't I?  We don't force anybody to post here.

At the same time, for those who do post here, we try to treat everybody equally, and to preserve a civil, viewpoint-friendly blog for everybody.  Our rules are clearly set forth, and are posted in at least three locations on the site. 

We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.