If I had a chance to trade Smart For Elfrid Peyton I would do it in a heartbeat

[Rondo9]

What does that mean though?

He is 8-32 from three point land. Horrible no doubt, but he doesnt shoot the 3, at least not yet.

He is shooting 42.8 percent, also not great, but he is bringing it up as the season goes on..

Yes his weakness is shooting, but that about it, as well as some careless turnovers.


Smart is shooting 34% from Deep, but 36% field goal percentage....also 65% from the line......so I guess that makes Marcus Smart Ray Allen right. Smart is bad as well.

If his niche is going to be taking 3 pointers, ill take payton 100 out of 100 times.

We just all watched a better version of Elfrid in Rondo.  Why would you want a lesser player with the same flaws?

Mike

Because Elfrid is just 21 with Rondo-type skills and has already put up a couple triple doubles.  His shooting can be improved.  Even if he just improves to 70% on free throws and 30% from three, you'd have a heck of a player.

And are people really ignorant of the "good stats on bad team" principle?

Or a more recent player Micheal Carter Williams.

[Fafnir]

Getting to the rim is really important for a PG. But so is the ability to hit 3 point shots. I haven't seen anything out of payton that'd make me jump for him over Smart, though he's shown plenty of promise too.

Tell that to Tony Parker.....

Russel Westbrook shoots 30% from deep,

Payton can up it more than 24% if he shoots it more, he just doesnt.

But the thing about todays NBA is that I think its important to be able to shoot the 3 , and make at least 1 or 2 on occassion.

I'm not sure you read my post in a way other than looking for an argument. You don't have to possess every useful skill in basketball to be a good or even great player.

PGs need to be able to either penetrate and score/create or shoot the 3 to be offensively viable. Great offensive PGs need to do both truthfully. The PGs you name who are shaky as floor spacers make up for it with penetration and attacking the paint.

And as for the "he can up it if he tries and takes more", well that line of thought never worked for Rondo or Ramon Sessions now has it?

[Tr1boy]

Not Elfrid for me. Horrible shooting touch

I might think about trading smart for schroeder though.

I dont know how 10 plus teams passed up on him . He proved in the world vs us game what he was capable of

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

What does that mean though?

He is 8-32 from three point land. Horrible no doubt, but he doesnt shoot the 3, at least not yet.

He is shooting 42.8 percent, also not great, but he is bringing it up as the season goes on..

Yes his weakness is shooting, but that about it, as well as some careless turnovers.


Smart is shooting 34% from Deep, but 36% field goal percentage....also 65% from the line......so I guess that makes Marcus Smart Ray Allen right. Smart is bad as well.

If his niche is going to be taking 3 pointers, ill take payton 100 out of 100 times.

We just all watched a better version of Elfrid in Rondo.  Why would you want a lesser player with the same flaws?

Mike

Because Elfrid is just 21 with Rondo-type skills and has already put up a couple triple doubles.  His shooting can be improved.  Even if he just improves to 70% on free throws and 30% from three, you'd have a heck of a player.

And are people really ignorant of the "good stats on bad team" principle?

Mike

I mean it's a BS principle so...

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

What does that mean though?

He is 8-32 from three point land. Horrible no doubt, but he doesnt shoot the 3, at least not yet.

He is shooting 42.8 percent, also not great, but he is bringing it up as the season goes on..

Yes his weakness is shooting, but that about it, as well as some careless turnovers.


Smart is shooting 34% from Deep, but 36% field goal percentage....also 65% from the line......so I guess that makes Marcus Smart Ray Allen right. Smart is bad as well.

If his niche is going to be taking 3 pointers, ill take payton 100 out of 100 times.

We just all watched a better version of Elfrid in Rondo.  Why would you want a lesser player with the same flaws?

Mike

Because Elfrid is just 21 with Rondo-type skills and has already put up a couple triple doubles.  His shooting can be improved.  Even if he just improves to 70% on free throws and 30% from three, you'd have a heck of a player.

And are people really ignorant of the "good stats on bad team" principle?

Or a more recent player Micheal Carter Williams.

I'd be fascinated to find out what world exists where his stat line was impressive. His efficiency was disastrous and he turned the ball over a ton. Those are stats.

Counting stats =/= All Stats

His efficiency stats were probably hurt by the fact that the team he was on had no spacing and no reliable options to help him shoulder the load. Not helped.

[celtics2030]

nvm you guys are right stats do count

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

[BitterJim]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

[MBunge]

What does that mean though?

He is 8-32 from three point land. Horrible no doubt, but he doesnt shoot the 3, at least not yet.

He is shooting 42.8 percent, also not great, but he is bringing it up as the season goes on..

Yes his weakness is shooting, but that about it, as well as some careless turnovers.


Smart is shooting 34% from Deep, but 36% field goal percentage....also 65% from the line......so I guess that makes Marcus Smart Ray Allen right. Smart is bad as well.

If his niche is going to be taking 3 pointers, ill take payton 100 out of 100 times.

We just all watched a better version of Elfrid in Rondo.  Why would you want a lesser player with the same flaws?

Mike

Because Elfrid is just 21 with Rondo-type skills and has already put up a couple triple doubles.  His shooting can be improved.  Even if he just improves to 70% on free throws and 30% from three, you'd have a heck of a player.

And are people really ignorant of the "good stats on bad team" principle?

Mike

I mean it's a BS principle so...

Only if you never, you know, actually watch basketball.

Mike

[tazzmaniac]

What does that mean though?

He is 8-32 from three point land. Horrible no doubt, but he doesnt shoot the 3, at least not yet.

He is shooting 42.8 percent, also not great, but he is bringing it up as the season goes on..

Yes his weakness is shooting, but that about it, as well as some careless turnovers.


Smart is shooting 34% from Deep, but 36% field goal percentage....also 65% from the line......so I guess that makes Marcus Smart Ray Allen right. Smart is bad as well.

If his niche is going to be taking 3 pointers, ill take payton 100 out of 100 times.

We just all watched a better version of Elfrid in Rondo.  Why would you want a lesser player with the same flaws?

Mike

Because Elfrid is just 21 with Rondo-type skills and has already put up a couple triple doubles.  His shooting can be improved.  Even if he just improves to 70% on free throws and 30% from three, you'd have a heck of a player.

And are people really ignorant of the "good stats on bad team" principle?

Mike

I mean it's a BS principle so...

Only if you never, you know, actually watch basketball.

Mike

I made a straightforward response to your post and you chose to take the low road in your response.  Stat padding on bad teams is generally about scoring.  Assists aren't easy to pad on bad teams.  A PG getting lots of rebounds is a plus in my book.  There are lots of players that are not willing to make the effort (e.g. Jeff Green).

The Magic are a bad team but the Celtics are not that much better.  With his defense, I can see Smart being a solid player but I just don't see much upside in him.  I wouldn't mind at all if threw out a triple double before the end of the season even if there was a bit of stat padding involved. 

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

What does that mean though?

He is 8-32 from three point land. Horrible no doubt, but he doesnt shoot the 3, at least not yet.

He is shooting 42.8 percent, also not great, but he is bringing it up as the season goes on..

Yes his weakness is shooting, but that about it, as well as some careless turnovers.


Smart is shooting 34% from Deep, but 36% field goal percentage....also 65% from the line......so I guess that makes Marcus Smart Ray Allen right. Smart is bad as well.

If his niche is going to be taking 3 pointers, ill take payton 100 out of 100 times.

We just all watched a better version of Elfrid in Rondo.  Why would you want a lesser player with the same flaws?

Mike

Because Elfrid is just 21 with Rondo-type skills and has already put up a couple triple doubles.  His shooting can be improved.  Even if he just improves to 70% on free throws and 30% from three, you'd have a heck of a player.

And are people really ignorant of the "good stats on bad team" principle?

Mike

I mean it's a BS principle so...

 

Only if you never, you know, actually watch basketball.

Mike

Clueless.

I watch plenty. You clearly use counting stats. Good luck with that, they're pretty useless.

Like I said, any stat that matters is much harder to improve on a bad team.

But yeah, it's really easy to get rebounds when you play for a defense that doesn't force misses and really easy to rack up assists on a team that can't shoot.

Really easy to score efficiently on a team with no spacing too.

So yes, the principle is BS because it isn't true. Here's your sign.

[jpotter33]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

Haha exactly. Especially because this pretty much all started when he'd wait until Smart had a bad game on the same night that EP had a good night.

[celtics2030]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

Haha exactly. Especially because this pretty much all started when he'd wait until Smart had a bad game on the same night that EP had a good night.

Nope.....I never waited for Smart to have a bad game, he pretty much does it evey 2 games or so, or even more frequently

but I actually never call out Smart on every single "bad" game because it makes no sense too.

Elfrid did not have that  great of game last night anyway. And Smart wasnt as bad as his attrocious box score looked.....

What's funny is I point out stats only to connect the dots....but some cant seem to do it...

Marcus is not that good of a shooter, but hes reguarded as a decent one......

Although I thought he played really good as a hard working effort player tonight, he still was MR Brick down the stretch.

He took it to the whole once or twice, and even the one where ht ook Tyler Johnson to the lane, it just looked so weak.

In turn PRessey looked better taking it to the rim. Marcus just looks like hes no that type of guy, he just cant slash like an NBA Player, at least not yet.....

Elfrid Payton was doing reverse layups on 3 guys last night, consecutively like they could not stop him.

When I argue about Smart and Elfrid , i might throw stats in, but it's more to prove the skillsets they have and don't.

[cb8883]

Marcus is not a good player. He isn't a legit NBA starter and probably never will be. Payton certainly looks like a player though. No one would have drafted him 6th but this is one more reason the Celtics needed a real player like Julius Randle. I don't care if they had to wait a year because of an injury either. He's going to make an overrated GM in LA look like a genius. I would trade Marcus for a 1st if you can get one during the off season. Ditto with KO both are huge busts. One for his draft position and the other for passing on Greek Freak.

[GreenWarrior]

lol, the only thing i'd accept in a trade at this point for smart is either davis or Durant.

Smart is a Celtic, one of those that will be underappreciated by the fans his entire career apparently.

smart and payton still have a ways to go. C's fans losing it over payton are being narrow-minded and not looking at the big picture. payton very well could be peaking and smart could still be climbing. either way their futures aren't written, appreciate the players you have.

[littleteapot]

lol, the only thing i'd accept in a trade at this point for smart is either davis or Durant.

Smart is a Celtic, one of those that will be underappreciated by the fans his entire career apparently.

smart and payton still have a ways to go. C's fans losing it over payton are being narrow-minded and not looking at the big picture. payton very well could be peaking and smart could still be climbing. either way their futures aren't written, appreciate the players you have.

How about a 4 team deal where we get Durant, Davis, Lebron and the ghost of Wilt Chamberlain. Not sure if the return on that is good enough though.