CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: BudweiserCeltic on January 04, 2013, 10:59:51 PM
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Seeing the post-game coverage, and disappointed that no mention has been made of his play. It's been either Avery Bradley this, or Rondo that (both well deserved), but I thought it was Courtney Lee's play today that really got us going on both ends of the floor.
Our offense was struggling, and as soon as he came to the floor, he hit some shots, played very good defense, ran the floor well with lots of deflections.
To me, he was the key to this game, and glad to see that Doc went with him more this game, than say Terry.
I've felt Courtney been receiving a lot of negative attention on the blog, and I feel it's highly undeserved. He's been playing well. About the sole Celtic player who's play has improved through the year, other than Sully.
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People around me at the garden tonight were really appreciating him, so that's something.
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I agree, he has been really good for about a month now (all after being benched, that is where he should be, it helps us)! He has been the most consistent this month. Great D and his offense has been much better too!
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Great to see Courtney play well, I'm really pulling for this kid. He can be a huge piece for us..very well rounded guard
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Best signing of the offseason. Celtics have to pleased with his progression. He does a little bit of everything for this team. The second unit with him at the point has been a bright spot for this team.
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I agree, he has been really good for about a month now (all after being benched, that is where he should be, it helps us)! He has been the most consistent this month. Great D and his offense has been much better too!
This. I don't really understand why people are still hating on him. Offensively his first month was terrible, but it's come around since and his defensive effort has never wavered. I like Lee.
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Playing limited minutes after Bradley returned seems to suit him. With his minutes shortened he is being far more aggressive. Also he is taking a lot more one dribble jumpers than three pointers. This is a good way to get his confidence back and start knocking down those corner 3's.
He has not been good to start but he will be a big upgrade over Dooling last year.
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Blessing in disguise that his stock is rising before the trade period again??
In all honesty id rather trade Jet along with bass and filler for someone. I think Lee can give us just as much on offence and plenty more on the defensive end then terry can. Plus i think Jets veteran leadership will be well liked on a younger team.
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This. I don't really understand why people are still hating on him. Offensively his first month was terrible, but it's come around since and his defensive effort has never wavered. I like Lee.
I don't hate him, but I think that Lee supporters who argue that he is a starter-quality player or that he is practically as good as a healthy Bradley, if not better, are completely and utterly wrong.
Coming off the bench and playing about 20mpg seems like the appropriate role for Lee.
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Lee gives 100% every night and consistently plays good energetic D. When he's hitting his shot is just a nice bonus IMO.
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Because all season he's been inconsistent and has been so-so for us on both ends of the floor.
There are too many people wearing Courtney Lee glasses that see him as some spectacular player that he hasn't been.
For maybe the last week he's played much better, but it's only the last two games that hes played really well.
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his ball handling is pretty good.
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There are too many people wearing Courtney Lee glasses that see him as some spectacular player that he hasn't been.
Where?
Nationally? He was on a list of the most disappointing offseason moves.
On this site? He's generally regarded as a good defensive player who sucked to start the season but has come around in the last month or so. I haven't seen anybody with an opinion much more positive than that.
I haven't seen any of these Courtney Lee glasses anywhere.
I do think that he's played better recently than you give him credit for, though. In December, he shot 47% from the field and 38.5% from three. That's solid roleplayer production from a solid roleplayer. I'd personally like to see him be a bit more of an asset on the glass, but otherwise he's been doing his job.
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TP, been with ya for a while on this one bud: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=60771.0
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Good game from him..keep it up!
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Mike Gorman was raving about him on the telecast, saying it was his best game as a Celtic.
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he was nice last night
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he always plays hard, last night he finally made enough shots .
He usually has good energy , and even better energy when Rondo and AB are in high gear.
Lee sort of has had a monkey on his back, until last night he was having a hard time putting a complete game together. SOmetimes it seems the harder he tried the worse things worked out. At some point , he has to throw that monkey off for good and get back on track. Hope it was last night.
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Lee is fast and doesn't seem to mind playing defense. He has good shot selection and appears to a have a good sense about when to be more aggressive about looking for his shot. I think he has been a little slow to get the offensive and defensive rotations but that is coming around. He is getting better and certainly appears to be growing into a nice player for us.
So now the other question, trade Lee or Terry? If we are still a win now team (and I think we are), Terry is more valuable. He is much more likely to be the guy to have a big game and win us a playoff game this year (at least I believe he is). If a team is building for the future (which we are kind of trying to do as well) you keep Lee.
So which are we?
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he's ironically looked better since Bradley came back and will find a more defined role...I'm starting to compare it to Aqib Talib coming to the patriots and other guys in the secondary falling into place..Hopeful it continues but frankly lee has still underperformed when you consider the expectations people had around here for him so I'm not about to gush and praise over him just yet..maybe he was embarrassed when a21 year old coming off double shoulder surgery came back and instantly had more impact when lee should all along had similar impact
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Lee is fast and doesn't seem to mind playing defense. He has good shot selection and appears to a have a good sense about when to be more aggressive about looking for his shot. I think he has been a little slow to get the offensive and defensive rotations but that is coming around. He is getting better and certainly appears to be growing into a nice player for us.
So now the other question, trade Lee or Terry? If we are still a win now team (and I think we are), Terry is more valuable. He is much more likely to be the guy to have a big game and win us a playoff game this year (at least I believe he is). If a team is building for the future (which we are kind of trying to do as well) you keep Lee.
So which are we?
Lee is more valuable to us, sorry. Terry's role for this team, and value is limited to the back-up PG role. He really has little value for us as a SG, so I'd take Lee who can play well alongside any other player we have on our roster. With Terry you have to be careful with who you're playing him with, and with whom you're playing him against. Also, he doesn't have good chemistry with Rondo both offensively and defensively.
So if a trade needs to happen, and I'd have to choose between Terry and Lee, I'd trade Terry without giving it a second thought.
he always plays hard, last night he finally made enough shots .
He usually has good energy , and even better energy when Rondo and AB are in high gear.
Lee sort of has had a monkey on his back, until last night he was having a hard time putting a complete game together. SOmetimes it seems the harder he tried the worse things worked out. At some point , he has to throw that monkey off for good and get back on track. Hope it was last night.
I don't know about "finally made enough shots", I think it's more of a situation were he was given more opportunities to score, which incidentally was a direct consequence of the team playing like it should, with good energy and with a faster pace.
He's been shooting the ball really well for more than a month now. In December he was shooting 51% from the field until that final 0-6 game. In the last 16 games, he's shooting 50% from the field, and for the season he's shooting a career high 48% so far, which is 2nd best for our team behind Rondo for our wing/guard players.
His 3-point shot is not all there yet, but it's coming steadily. As it is, he's shooting it well enough, just not at the level he was expected to, particularly from the corner.
Mike Gorman was raving about him on the telecast, saying it was his best game as a Celtic.
That's good to know, probably the only one that mentioned him last night :)
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he's ironically looked better since Bradley came back and will find a more defined role...I'm starting to compare it to Aqib Talib coming to the patriots and other guys in the secondary falling into place..Hopeful it continues but frankly lee has still underperformed when you consider the expectations people had around here for him so I'm not about to gush and praise over him just yet
So playing hard, with solid defense, and shooting career high FG% on the limited role he's been given is underpeforming?
I think you're stuck on November, and our team's struggles in the latter parts of December have blinded you to how Lee has been playing.
He's been good for us, Doc and our PGs just need to make better use of him. They don't run plays for him, we've been playing half-court basketball too much.
He's a good role player.
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he's ironically looked better since Bradley came back and will find a more defined role...I'm starting to compare it to Aqib Talib coming to the patriots and other guys in the secondary falling into place..Hopeful it continues but frankly lee has still underperformed when you consider the expectations people had around here for him so I'm not about to gush and praise over him just yet
So playing hard, with solid defense, and shooting career high FG% on the limited role he's been given is underpeforming?
I think you're stuck on November, and our team's struggles in the latter parts of December have blinded you to how Lee has been playing.
He's been good for us, Doc and our PGs just need to make better use of him. They don't run plays for him, we've been playing half-court basketball too much.
He's a good role player.
yup and the hype surrounding the signing I've expected at the very least what he's been giving us and more so hopefully it continues
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
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Lee has been pretty close to what I expected, other than his offensive shooting, which should improve.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
One of them HAS to go. Won't be enough minutes come playoff time, plus, added minutes for the player that stays might very well result in an uptick in their level of play. Many bench players need consistent minutes.
We really need to remove some of the redundancy from our roster and get the best player we can by trade. Most preferrable would be a C or upgrade at PF over Bass/Sully.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
One of them HAS to go. Won't be enough minutes come playoff time, plus, added minutes for the player that stays might very well result in an uptick in their level of play. Many bench players need consistent minutes.
We really need to remove some of the redundancy from our roster and get the best player we can by trade. Most preferrable would be a C or upgrade at PF over Bass/Sully.
I don't see much redundancy. You use Terry strictly as a back-up PG. Redundancy is overrated until you actually need it. I guess depth is another word for it.
Now Bass and Sully, now that's real redundance because they can't play together.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
One of them HAS to go. Won't be enough minutes come playoff time, plus, added minutes for the player that stays might very well result in an uptick in their level of play. Many bench players need consistent minutes.
We really need to remove some of the redundancy from our roster and get the best player we can by trade. Most preferrable would be a C or upgrade at PF over Bass/Sully.
I don't see much redundancy. You use Terry strictly as a back-up PG. Redundancy is overrated until you actually need it. I guess depth is another word for it.
Call it what you will, it's just a matter of semantics.
When you have excess in one or two areas, and a glaring hole in another, you try to parlay the excesses into pieces that plug the hole.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
One of them HAS to go. Won't be enough minutes come playoff time, plus, added minutes for the player that stays might very well result in an uptick in their level of play. Many bench players need consistent minutes.
We really need to remove some of the redundancy from our roster and get the best player we can by trade. Most preferrable would be a C or upgrade at PF over Bass/Sully.
I was with you up to the last word of your post. Don't trade Sully, you will regret it.
The rest of your post makes perfect sense. Barbosa is buried on the bench and could help more. Ideally I would trade Terry in a package to bring back a front court player.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
One of them HAS to go. Won't be enough minutes come playoff time, plus, added minutes for the player that stays might very well result in an uptick in their level of play. Many bench players need consistent minutes.
We really need to remove some of the redundancy from our roster and get the best player we can by trade. Most preferrable would be a C or upgrade at PF over Bass/Sully.
I don't see much redundancy. You use Terry strictly as a back-up PG. Redundancy is overrated until you actually need it. I guess depth is another word for it.
Call it what you will, it's just a matter of semantics.
When you have excess in one or two areas, and a glaring hole in another, you try to parlay the excesses into pieces that plug the hole.
So you try to trade Bass along with picks, Barbosa, Joseph, and Melo to get that big we need. Or you try to get a cheap pick up. You dont HAVE to trade Lee or Terry to improve our roster.
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So which one of Lee or Terry would people prefer to trade?
I leaning Terry, at the moment. His contract is likely more easily moveable. Not sure which player would net a better return though.
You trade none, unless you really need to. And if that happens, I hope its Terry or Barbosa that goes.
One of them HAS to go. Won't be enough minutes come playoff time, plus, added minutes for the player that stays might very well result in an uptick in their level of play. Many bench players need consistent minutes.
We really need to remove some of the redundancy from our roster and get the best player we can by trade. Most preferrable would be a C or upgrade at PF over Bass/Sully.
I was with you up to the last word of your post. Don't trade Sully, you will regret it.
The rest of your post makes perfect sense. Barbosa is buried on the bench and could help more. Ideally I would trade Terry in a package to bring back a front court player.
Definitely agree Barbosa could likely fill the few remaining minutes that would result in one of Lee/Terry going out.
I am fully convinced it was Danny's plan to sign both to fill in for Bradley, and once he returned, trade one of them. Barbosa would then step in and fill the void.
I would also not like to trade Sully, but absolutely would for the right player. Not sure how easy it will be to move Bass.
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He doesn't get much credit and he deserves more. He has been solid in his limited minutes since the beginning of December. I like to see him get even more aggressive on offense. He has played hard every game all year.
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I love that he gives 100% on every play. Def his best quality
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He doesn't get much credit and he deserves more. He has been solid in his limited minutes since the beginning of December. I like to see him get even more aggressive on offense. He has played hard every game all year.
At this point, he is outplaying Terry.
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Let's keep the Lee love going!
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Cudos , for picking up his game, I thin AB has been a huge inspiration .
Lee has always had the effort , just couldn't seem to translate it into some good results.. I think he is showing that hard work eventually pays off.
Never a problem with his defense effort. He needs to move his game CLOSER to the rim 12 ft and in...take advantage of his height and quickness. He sucks shooting past 15-17 feet.
Loved his awesome "D" !!!!!!!!!
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He doesn't get much credit and he deserves more. He has been solid in his limited minutes since the beginning of December. I like to see him get even more aggressive on offense. He has played hard every game all year.
At this point, he is outplaying Terry.
Co sign
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Avery Bradley lite on defense.
Hyper energetic on offense.
LOVE IT
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Lee is quickly becoming the perfect compliment to Bradley.
Bradley is a ball-hawk. Constant pressure. This works great with Rondo playing the passing lanes.
Then enter Lee, who picks up where Bradley left off, and is a great compliment to Terry. Terry, like Rondo, plays the passing lanes well.
This back court pairing, tandem, is beginning to click really well.
Add-on: Haha! This post fits great with my other posts on this page of the thread. Things have changed dramatically since the return of Bradley. The bench is playing together well now also. Yowzah!
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2-3 from the 3pt line last night. If he can start hitting those his numbers are going to go up. Lee looks like he's settling into a role.
All of the moves Danny made (other than Darko) are starting to pan out. I don't count Fab because he's always been a project.
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Lee has definitely improved over the course of the season. He's been a key player for them recently.
He seems to give us more than Jason Terry pretty much every night.
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Just wait until JetLee start hitting their shots in the same game.
Holy geez.
Seriously though, Lee's finally being the player we've all wanted him to be. His play of late has backed up why I thought the Celtics shouldn't trade him. He may not be the shutdown player Bradley is, but he's quite the pest.
If he continues to play like this, I'll start calling him "Mini-Posey", because isn't that a pretty good comparison? He can hit the three and play great 1-on-1 defense just like Posey did way back when. Except one guarded mainly 3s and 4s while the other guards 1s and 2s.
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People talk about Bradleys ball pressure as the #1 reason our defense/team has gotten back on track.
Lost in the mix is how great Lees pressure has been. Again, not Bradley but still very good.
The combo of Lee-Bradley and even Lee-Jet has been phenomenal for us.
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Another nice game from Lee.
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Aye, he was great. A shame that he and Terry seem to be on the opposite ends of their ups and downs. I hope they both are on the upswing at the same time soon.
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Courney playing KILLER D, if bradley isn't worrying the guards enough already , then DOc sends in LEE to wear the devil out of the opponents guards.... great way to keep the opponents worn out.
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He's playing so well I don't want to trade him anymore lol ;D
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Courney playing KILLER D, if bradley isn't worrying the guards enough already , then DOc sends in LEE to wear the devil out of the opponents guards.... great way to keep the opponents worn out.
which is why I'm excited to see the Miami showdown, cuz we're gonna give Wade a lot of hell with the rotation of Bradley and Lee
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Loving him. I think AB's return has raised the bar that Lee wants to play defense up to. So glad his shot has been falling lately too
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Lee has been great lately. I'm quickly reaching the point where I really don't want to trade him. Much rather part ways with Terry than get rid of Lee, who I think is a great compliment to both Bradley and Rondo.
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One aspect of Lee's game that has not drawn much attention is that he's actually, for the most part, also acting as the backup PG. Of course, he'll never be confused for a true playmaker, but his ability to bring the ball up without turning it over is commendable.
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Lee has been great lately. I'm quickly reaching the point where I really don't want to trade him. Much rather part ways with Terry than get rid of Lee, who I think is a great compliment to both Bradley and Rondo.
I been saying that all along, people want to package Lee and get rid of him for some mediocre big smh
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Lee has been great lately. I'm quickly reaching the point where I really don't want to trade him. Much rather part ways with Terry than get rid of Lee, who I think is a great compliment to both Bradley and Rondo.
agreed, keep waiting for terry to start playing well, bass did a nice job last night
terry has to be considered 4th guard in rotation and for the $ he's making over barbosa it isn't making much sense, i actually think i'm being nice saying terry is 4th on depth chart over barbosa
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One aspect of Lee's game that has not drawn much attention is that he's actually, for the most part, also acting as the backup PG. Of course, he'll never be confused for a true playmaker, but his ability to bring the ball up without turning it over is commendable.
Yeah, I hated that look at first but between Lee, Bradley, Terry, and Barbosa we seem to be able to cobble together a functioning offense when Rondo isn't on the floor. Lee isn't a bad backup point just as long as he isn't expected to do very much.
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Now this is the guy they thought they were getting. Tough defense, corner threes, some versatility with the ball in his hands, great open court player.
Not a superstar by any means, but just an excellent role player, and very valuable piece to a winning team.
Everytime this happens, I am more and more convinced that the C's system is insanely hard to fit into quickly, which scares about the possibility of a big mid season trade.
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AB and CLee are hawking each other during practices. He was bound to improve when he realized that he actually had an easier time during games.
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Now this is the guy they thought they were getting. Tough defense, corner threes, some versatility with the ball in his hands, great open court player.
Not a superstar by any means, but just an excellent role player, and very valuable piece to a winning team.
Everytime this happens, I am more and more convinced that the C's system is insanely hard to fit into quickly, which scares about the possibility of a big mid season trade.
yup, yup, yup. TP
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Having two hard nosed guards is a good thing. I've always admired Lee's defense effort since the preseason. Like his attitude and effort. Just had hard time making a bucket alot of times.. even with wide open looks.
Doc IMO ...should have Lee drving to the basket more, less three attemps, fake the three , and pull up for 12-15 foot jumpers. Lee really moves the ball well and seems deadly shot when he is midrange or less.
I think AB and Lee's hard work is rubbing off on the rest of the team. Even ROndo was pretty solid all game on Defense end lastnight.
HAving the guards playing lock down defense inspires the rest of the guys to work hard . Green played the best Defense I've seen all year from him. Even Collins was giving it all he had. He isn't a good player, but he is all in as a Team player.
If Lee and Green play inspired defense, they can make it hard on the SUperstars like Kobe , Wade, Westbrooke , ect.
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Doc IMO ...should have Lee drving to the basket more, less three attemps, fake the three , and pull up for 12-15 foot jumpers. Lee really moves the ball well and seems deadly shot when he is midrange or less.
The thing is, Lee was one of the best (or maybe even the best) corner 3 point shooters in the league last year, and has shot over 40% from 3 for 3 of the 4 years he has been in the league before this year.
So, while I also had some issues with the way Doc was bringing him off picks running Ray's plays, I cannot fault Doc for using him as a 3 point shooter in the offense. That has always been a strength for him, and it wasn't until he got a case of the yips this year, that his shooting disappeared.
But now its back, and adding Lee and Avery as corner 3 point shooters, to compliment Green and Terry, who already were decent in that role, has really opened up the floor offensively for this team.
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Since December Lee is shooting 3s well. Would like to see him hit more on wide open ones, but he's been making his shots.
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Since December Lee is shooting 3s well. Would like to see him hit more on wide open ones, but he's been making his shots.
That's what I mean. And I think it has been a really underreported story during the teams winning streak. All the love goes to Bradley and Sullinger...and rightfully so, they have sparked this team with their play. But Lee's shooting combined with his defense has also played a huge role in the turnaround.
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Since December Lee is shooting 3s well. Would like to see him hit more on wide open ones, but he's been making his shots.
That's what I mean. And I think it has been a really underreported story during the teams winning streak. All the love goes to Bradley and Sullinger...and rightfully so, they have sparked this team with their play. But Lee's shooting combined with his defense has also played a huge role in the turnaround.
That's why I started this thread :)
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Lee has not been given nearly enough credit.
He, Bradley and KG are the only ones on the team I can honestly say have been giving consistently high effort. Rondo, Pierce and co. have been mediocre at best. Wilcox and Sullinger have been close but really everyone else has been disappointing.
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Lee is one of the players I wouldn't mind seeing stick around once the core has been scattered to the four winds.
But he's not essential or anything . . . if he must be traded to get more assets for the future, so be it. But he's a valuable young player on a decent contract so we don't need to be in a rush to dump him.