Author Topic: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.  (Read 4445 times)

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Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 06:28:09 PM »

Offline greg683x

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The Hayward part is a young player that says he gets it, but doesn't really get it.  The Irving part is far more interesting and if true, I have to really question not trading Irving at the deadline last year.  The team was a mess and it seems like Irving was the major reason why.  He should have been moved.
The Celtics were trying to win a title last season, and based on how they played against top competition during the regular season, there was every reason to believe that they had a shot based on talent alone. That's why Ainge didn't trade Irving.

Hindsight is 20/20, not to mention that the return for Irving would have been incredibly underwhelming anyway.
What talent?  I mean that seriously.  Boston had no true top end talent and that almost always wins the day in the post season.  And for me it wasn't hindsight, as I absolutely said that thing all over this board (with much disdain from the masses) and also said that Boston should look to move Irving last year at the deadline as I had several long term concerns with even re-signing Irving let alone the chance that he would leave.  In fact, I would have moved Irving and then used the assets to go hard after Davis.  For example, I proposed some variation of this 3-team trade on this board a lot leading into the deadline last year.

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

Maybe it wouldn't have happened, but it was a trade that seemed fairly reasonable at the time. 

The simple reality is, Irving was a disaster from almost the minute he as acquired.  He was a cancer wrecking havoc in the locker-room, just like he did in Cleveland (this board wanted to put that on Lebron, but it was almost all on Irving).  And he is a player that gets love like, and firmly believes that he is a franchise player and superstar.  He isn't and never has been.  He has always been a problem and the team should have cut its losses and moved on, especially when Ainge failed to surround Irving with a true #1 (like say Kawhi).

well whats the worse scenario given how things worked out?

Current Scenario:  We kept Brown, lost Kyrie in FA.  Gained Kemba

The proposed trade from last season:  We lose Brown.  We lose Kyrie.  We gain Anthony Davis for one media circus filled season.  Then lose Davis the following offseason going into a weak free agent class.  We're worse off in this scenario.

I like things the way the are now.  Doesnt mean he couldnt have found another deal to ditch Kyrie, but things could have played out a lot worse
Greg

Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2020, 06:32:06 PM »

Online celticsclay

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The Hayward part is a young player that says he gets it, but doesn't really get it.  The Irving part is far more interesting and if true, I have to really question not trading Irving at the deadline last year.  The team was a mess and it seems like Irving was the major reason why.  He should have been moved.
The Celtics were trying to win a title last season, and based on how they played against top competition during the regular season, there was every reason to believe that they had a shot based on talent alone. That's why Ainge didn't trade Irving.

Hindsight is 20/20, not to mention that the return for Irving would have been incredibly underwhelming anyway.
What talent?  I mean that seriously.  Boston had no true top end talent and that almost always wins the day in the post season.  And for me it wasn't hindsight, as I absolutely said that thing all over this board (with much disdain from the masses) and also said that Boston should look to move Irving last year at the deadline as I had several long term concerns with even re-signing Irving let alone the chance that he would leave.  In fact, I would have moved Irving and then used the assets to go hard after Davis.  For example, I proposed some variation of this 3-team trade on this board a lot leading into the deadline last year.

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

Maybe it wouldn't have happened, but it was a trade that seemed fairly reasonable at the time. 

The simple reality is, Irving was a disaster from almost the minute he as acquired.  He was a cancer wrecking havoc in the locker-room, just like he did in Cleveland (this board wanted to put that on Lebron, but it was almost all on Irving).  And he is a player that gets love like, and firmly believes that he is a franchise player and superstar.  He isn't and never has been.  He has always been a problem and the team should have cut its losses and moved on, especially when Ainge failed to surround Irving with a true #1 (like say Kawhi).

I am pretty sure everyone on this board loves how you regularly talk about how much smarter you are than the rest of us and why you were right in things you said and we were all wrong. TP for how often you do it.

Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2020, 07:00:59 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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The Hayward part is a young player that says he gets it, but doesn't really get it.  The Irving part is far more interesting and if true, I have to really question not trading Irving at the deadline last year.  The team was a mess and it seems like Irving was the major reason why.  He should have been moved.
The Celtics were trying to win a title last season, and based on how they played against top competition during the regular season, there was every reason to believe that they had a shot based on talent alone. That's why Ainge didn't trade Irving.

Hindsight is 20/20, not to mention that the return for Irving would have been incredibly underwhelming anyway.
What talent?  I mean that seriously.  Boston had no true top end talent and that almost always wins the day in the post season.  And for me it wasn't hindsight, as I absolutely said that thing all over this board (with much disdain from the masses) and also said that Boston should look to move Irving last year at the deadline as I had several long term concerns with even re-signing Irving let alone the chance that he would leave.  In fact, I would have moved Irving and then used the assets to go hard after Davis.  For example, I proposed some variation of this 3-team trade on this board a lot leading into the deadline last year.

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

Maybe it wouldn't have happened, but it was a trade that seemed fairly reasonable at the time. 

The simple reality is, Irving was a disaster from almost the minute he as acquired.  He was a cancer wrecking havoc in the locker-room, just like he did in Cleveland (this board wanted to put that on Lebron, but it was almost all on Irving).  And he is a player that gets love like, and firmly believes that he is a franchise player and superstar.  He isn't and never has been.  He has always been a problem and the team should have cut its losses and moved on, especially when Ainge failed to surround Irving with a true #1 (like say Kawhi).

I am pretty sure everyone on this board loves how you regularly talk about how much smarter you are than the rest of us and why you were right in things you said and we were all wrong. TP for how often you do it.

Acquiring Davis without Irving would've sort of defeated the purpose. You combine those two talents and elite role players or pieces around them, not in exchange for each other.

3 way team trades that benefits all 3 three teams seems unlikely, let alone one where there's two stars of that magnitude in the exchange.

I also giggle at his statements sometimes.  ::) ;D
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Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2020, 07:37:48 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Get out your popcorn memes.

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/nick-friar/rozier-talks-brad-stevens-and-kyrie-irvings-relationship

Quote
On Sports Illustrated’s podcast, “The Crossover,” fellow ex-Celtics guard Terry Rozier explained what it was like between his head coach and Boston’s 2018-19 starting point guard.

“I feel like it was more of … it kind of wasn’t coach-player. … It was kind of like coach-younger coach,” Rozier said. “When he came over (to Boston) he won a championship, him being who he is, Kyrie had a lot of stuff that he felt that could change, that he wanted to change about the Celtics. (These are) all on-court things. He felt like he knew a lot of his basketball.

Terry walks that part pretty carefully.   Would be interested to see it live to see if his body language gives up more.

Also lays plain what many suspected about Rozier being the one who was probably most affected by losing touches to Hayward:

Quote
“He’s Gordon Hayward. So, it’s like, you just can’t go away from him. You can’t treat him like he’s a regular player anyway. You got to make sure he gets his touches,” Rozier said. “But I kind of felt like that was more of a focus point for us. And I felt like that was too much of a focus point for us, of trying to get (Hayward) going instead of making sure everybody was on the same page.

“Like I said, I don’t have all the answers, but I didn’t, kind of, agree with that.”

I'm sure some will read this and bash Terry for saying it or for having those feelings.  And others will bash Brad for giving Hayward "special treatment".   Me?  I just think it was an unfortunate situation that had TR stuck here in the wrong role because Ainge needed to hedge against Kyrie possibly walking.   Ideally, TR could have been dealt the summer before and that would have been best for him and the team.   But with both GH & Kyrie coming back from injury and Kyrie not tied down beyond that season (and not to mention the uncertainty around whether an Anthony Davis trade could happen) Danny couldn't pull the trigger.   

Interesting considering Terry had the third most touches on the team on a per game basis last season.



And in terms of total touches only Kyrie had more touches than Terry did.



As for Kyrie, it's clear he really wanted his own team built around his style of play. A more iso style. Or one which is more LeBronesque where he holds the ball, draws the defense and kicks out for an assist. Can't really blame him given that's his skillset. Just the wrong fit for the Celtics. Hopefully he will find that in Brooklyn with KD (as long as he can stay healthy).

You have to separate the games that he played different roles in.  I've done this breakdown before -- I'm sure I posted it here somewhere late last season.

Basically, when Kyrie, Smart, Gordon & Terry all played in the same game, the scenario always meant Terry was going to come off the bench and play wing next to either Smart (early in the year) or Gordon (after he went to the bench).   Terry would defer a lot of playmaking to Smart or Gordon.   

In the games Kyrie or Smart (or both) missed, this shifted his role -- often to starting PG in which case his touch & pass rates would go way up, typically very close to Kyrie's touch & pass rates.

The numbers you posted mix those two scenarios together.

You can also see this by looking at Terry's numbers in 5-man lineups that do/don't include any of those other three.  His assist rates leap upward when he was the clear primary ball-handler.  Over his last 3 years he was overall a much, much better player (shooting & passing) when he was the clear primary ball handler.   He basically sucked as a wing.  But he was actually pretty decent as a pure PG.


NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2020, 08:47:04 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Terry just want his touches ****. Look at Brown. Had a rough start last year, even had media comments directed at Kyrie, got scolded by Smart and Morris a couple of times. Instead of continuing to whine and play selfish basketball, he became arguably our best performer towards the end of the season.

What did Rozier do? Oh, same selfish play and lazy defense and even blasted his teammates after the season. Good Riddance.

Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2020, 08:54:28 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Kyrie couldn’t lead in Cleveland without Lebron, clashing with coaches and teammates while never making the playoffs. Then, he felt like Lebron was “sonning” him and restricting his growth.  Then, he comes over to the Celtics and assumes that he knows more than Brad, because Lebron carried him to a championship.

Delusions of grandeur.  I love his skills but hate what he’s got between his ears.


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Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2020, 09:24:07 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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I listened to that pod the other day and came away impressed by Rozier. He pretty much owned up to his mistake last year. He complained too much and learned it’s sometimes ok to just keep quiet. He’s actually playing pretty well in Charlotte this season.

Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2020, 10:39:24 PM »

Offline cltc5

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 :laugh:who?

Re: T-Roz discusses relationship between Kyrie Irving and Brad Stevens.
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2020, 10:51:11 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The Hayward part is a young player that says he gets it, but doesn't really get it.  The Irving part is far more interesting and if true, I have to really question not trading Irving at the deadline last year.  The team was a mess and it seems like Irving was the major reason why.  He should have been moved.
The Celtics were trying to win a title last season, and based on how they played against top competition during the regular season, there was every reason to believe that they had a shot based on talent alone. That's why Ainge didn't trade Irving.

Hindsight is 20/20, not to mention that the return for Irving would have been incredibly underwhelming anyway.
What talent?  I mean that seriously.  Boston had no true top end talent and that almost always wins the day in the post season.  And for me it wasn't hindsight, as I absolutely said that thing all over this board (with much disdain from the masses) and also said that Boston should look to move Irving last year at the deadline as I had several long term concerns with even re-signing Irving let alone the chance that he would leave.  In fact, I would have moved Irving and then used the assets to go hard after Davis.  For example, I proposed some variation of this 3-team trade on this board a lot leading into the deadline last year.

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

Maybe it wouldn't have happened, but it was a trade that seemed fairly reasonable at the time. 

The simple reality is, Irving was a disaster from almost the minute he as acquired.  He was a cancer wrecking havoc in the locker-room, just like he did in Cleveland (this board wanted to put that on Lebron, but it was almost all on Irving).  And he is a player that gets love like, and firmly believes that he is a franchise player and superstar.  He isn't and never has been.  He has always been a problem and the team should have cut its losses and moved on, especially when Ainge failed to surround Irving with a true #1 (like say Kawhi).

I am pretty sure everyone on this board loves how you regularly talk about how much smarter you are than the rest of us and why you were right in things you said and we were all wrong. TP for how often you do it.

Acquiring Davis without Irving would've sort of defeated the purpose. You combine those two talents and elite role players or pieces around them, not in exchange for each other.

3 way team trades that benefits all 3 three teams seems unlikely, let alone one where there's two stars of that magnitude in the exchange.

I also giggle at his statements sometimes.  ::) ;D
I absolutely believe this 8 man rotation comes out of the East and quite possibly wins the title last year. Davis, Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Smart, Rozier, Morris, Baynes.  That team has the right mix of talent and the franchise player leading the way.  That team would have been an equal to the top 3 teams from a talent perspective. 

Irving is no where near the level of player that Davis is. Even at the expense of Brown that team was worth the risk.  I suspect the team also basically comes back this year as well and again would be a clear top 2 team in the conference if not the favorite and who knows maybe you can still get Kemba for Rozier in a sign and trade (with Davis not on a new max and Horford coming back at less money it might have been possible).  Ainge had passed on several players over the last few seasons that would be the best player the C's have seen since KG got old. I just don't get it nor the defense of Ainge for bringing the cancer to the team
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