Time to talk about the bench guys!

[obnoxiousmime]

I don't think Olynyk is as easily gettable as people seem to think. He's not going to be bought out, he has trade value. Teams see him as a versatile veteran big that can play the 4 or 5 in different systems and stretch the floor with solid outside shooting. He's not a great defender but he's a solid one with good size. Plus, he's a good passer. He's definitely not a starter on a contending team, but can be part of a playoff rotation. I think he would cost two second-rounders at least because there just aren't a lot of big men like him around.

Also, I think some people are being way too optimistic with these minimum-salary guys we picked up this offseason. There's a reason all these guys were made available, and it'd be unrealistic to expect that suddenly in one offseason they'd improve enough be part of a playoff rotation. There's a reason Wenyen Gabriel lost his job when the Lakers picked up Hachimura and Vanderbilt. There's a reason Oshae Brissett was the odd man out in Indiana. Toronto is desperate for guards and yet they didn't keep Banton.

I think most of these signings are just flyers they took on guys (most of them are not fully guaranteed), some of which they made early in FA just to make sure they had fallback options in case they couldn't make a trade (Brissett and Banton specifically). I also think they they brought in all these guys into camp because they really wanted a competitive atmosphere instead of a situation in the past where the roster spots were more or less set. They're going to roll the ball out to Brissettt, Mykhailuk, Walsh, Banton, Stevens, and Hauser and make them compete for those backup minutes. Realistically, I can't see them holding onto so many wings (I understand Banton can also play point guard which might help him win a job).

Regarding the big man depth, I think they know they have to make a move but are going to be patient with it. You don't make a go-for-it deal like the Holiday trade and then just go into the playoffs with an old Al Horford, brittle Porzingis, and an unproven Kornet.

[Big333223]

It's probably green-tinted glasses but I like the bench.

Pritchard, Oshae, Hauser, Horford rounding out the top 5 is really nice. I'm high on Oshae (I see him as a James Posey type) and I think Pritchard and Hauser and both incredible shooters who are underrated on defense.

As others have said in this thread, if the rotation is smart, 2 of the top 4 guys will always be on the court which will make things easier for the bench.

It would be nice to have another rotation big but maybe Gabriel is that guy. I haven't seen much of him but he seems to have a lot of raw talent. Not much size, but he isn't any smaller than Rob was.

He has a lot of similarities to TL. I like the way Gabriel sounded to the press on Media Day. Then watched a bunch of highlights from his LAL season, and I’m impressed. For per-36, he is almost a 13/10 guy. KP/Al/Gabriel is nice sounding center depth. For that reason, I would put him in that 2nd unit over Brissett.

I was really impressed with Gabriel's interview as well.  Super well spoken, smart, he seems to really understand what his role is.  I got excited watching his highlights as well.  Super energy level, not afraid to take a 3, looks like he works really hard.   I love us getting Holiday, but a lot of these under the radar guys at the end of the roster have me excited as well.  It feels like Brad has made all the right moves.  All the players he brought in seem to mesh well.

Yeah, he sounds like he fully understands what he excels at and is ready to work.

Wenyan as the scrappy, quick big and Kornet as the larger body who can bang with bigger guys is kind of a nice combination for the 3rd big man spot. Potentially.

[obnoxiousmime]

I wanted to also add that the Celtics' edge with any Olynyk deal is the fact that Ainge is in Utah. If the offers are anywhere close, and/or if Olynyk says "hey do me a solid I think I can win a title in Boston," Ainge is obviously going to help Boston out as long as Stevens offers something reasonable.

[Who]

I see Olynyk as a key to making Utah's frontcourt work

C: Kessler, Olynyk
F: J Collins, Taylor Hendricks
F: Markkanen

I see them as a five man group that will take up 90+% of the minutes available in the 3 frontcourt positions. Kessler gives Utah that rim rolling big man threat. Olynyk serves the contrast to that with his high post game of high level shooting & passing. He allows Utah to change styles at the five. He allows Utah to go big with him at forward next to Markkanen and their shot-blocking center.

Even if John Collins plays at a high level for Utah -- and I expect him to have difficulties with Kessler like he did with Capela and like Kessler did rim running PF Vanderbilt last season -- that still will not make Olynyk expendable. Olynyk is their key 6th man to enable all types of different lineup combinations.

Maybe if Taylor Hendricks plays big time right off the bat as well as John Collins playing at a high level but is unlikely given Taylor Hendricks is a rookie and has a still-developing offensive game. More likely he'll come along slow to start with. Meaning Olynyk is still vital to Utah for the near future.

[Big333223]

Listening to the Celitcs Lab podcast today and one of the guests (two guys from the How 'Bout Them Celtics podcast) kind of went off about how high he is on Lamar Stevens. I don't know much about him but he started 25 games for the Cavs last year and maybe has some potential as well.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with all of these big wings.

[Vermont Green]

I see Olynyk as a key to making Utah's frontcourt work

C: Kessler, Olynyk
F: J Collins, Taylor Hendricks
F: Markkanen

I see them as a five man group that will take up 90+% of the minutes available in the 3 frontcourt positions. Kessler gives Utah that rim rolling big man threat. Olynyk serves the contrast to that with his high post game of high level shooting & passing. He allows Utah to change styles at the five. He allows Utah to go big with him at forward next to Markkanen and their shot-blocking center.

Even if John Collins plays at a high level for Utah -- and I expect him to have difficulties with Kessler like he did with Capela and like Kessler did rim running PF Vanderbilt last season -- that still will not make Olynyk expendable. Olynyk is their key 6th man to enable all types of different lineup combinations.

Maybe if Taylor Hendricks plays big time right off the bat as well as John Collins playing at a high level but is unlikely given Taylor Hendricks is a rookie and has a still-developing offensive game. More likely he'll come along slow to start with. Meaning Olynyk is still vital to Utah for the near future.

I am not sure if this is what you are implying with your mini-depth chart but I feel it is misusing Markkanen if you play him at SF.  He was forced to play SF in CLE but was a PF/C in UTA after the trade.  He was much better in UTA playing what I feel is his natural position.  Now maybe Collins can be more of a PF/Swing, I don't know, but that is not the role for Markkanen.  That is why I don't think they need Collins and Markkanen and Olynyk.  I am not sure if that will lead them to do something with Olynyk or not, but I see him as just taking up space on a team that will want to develop younger players.

[jay]

I like Smith and Achiuwa. I wonder if they would use the TPE at this point or would they wait until deadline. Another option is Nick Richards if they want more of a true center/shot blocker

[Who]

I see Olynyk as a key to making Utah's frontcourt work

C: Kessler, Olynyk
F: J Collins, Taylor Hendricks
F: Markkanen

I see them as a five man group that will take up 90+% of the minutes available in the 3 frontcourt positions. Kessler gives Utah that rim rolling big man threat. Olynyk serves the contrast to that with his high post game of high level shooting & passing. He allows Utah to change styles at the five. He allows Utah to go big with him at forward next to Markkanen and their shot-blocking center.

Even if John Collins plays at a high level for Utah -- and I expect him to have difficulties with Kessler like he did with Capela and like Kessler did rim running PF Vanderbilt last season -- that still will not make Olynyk expendable. Olynyk is their key 6th man to enable all types of different lineup combinations.

Maybe if Taylor Hendricks plays big time right off the bat as well as John Collins playing at a high level but is unlikely given Taylor Hendricks is a rookie and has a still-developing offensive game. More likely he'll come along slow to start with. Meaning Olynyk is still vital to Utah for the near future.

I am not sure if this is what you are implying with your mini-depth chart but I feel it is misusing Markkanen if you play him at SF.  He was forced to play SF in CLE but was a PF/C in UTA after the trade.  He was much better in UTA playing what I feel is his natural position.  Now maybe Collins can be more of a PF/Swing, I don't know, but that is not the role for Markkanen.  That is why I don't think they need Collins and Markkanen and Olynyk.  I am not sure if that will lead them to do something with Olynyk or not, but I see him as just taking up space on a team that will want to develop younger players.

Yeah, that's it.

Looks to me they are trying to put together a frontcourt of tall skillful players who are difficult to matchup against. Kessler is the only low skill player. The other four are skilled. Markkanen and Olynyk basically 7 feet. John Collins a 6-9/6-10 inside-outside PF. Taylor Hendricks a 6-9 combo forward.

What that looks like to me is that they are trying to force certain matchups where either the opponent will concede a matchup advantage to them or go away from their preferred style of play in order to matchup against them. That this is key to their identity and style of play. How they create advantages for themselves.

I do not see John Collins in the 6th man role. He is paid too much money. I expect him to start and is seen as a possible / hopeful long term option at forward next to Markkanen.

I see Taylor Hendricks as the real candidate to start alongside Markkanen long term. A 6-9 highly athletic combo forward. I consider him similar to Jerami Grant. So I see Taylor Hendricks as the real long term SF with Markkanen moving over to PF. But that will likely take time to come to fruition. In that case, he would probably force out John Collins or force him into a major pay decrease and a smaller bench role when his contract is up.

[green_bballers13]

I don't think the bench is that bad. What am I missing?

DWhite (could be 6MoY)
Pritchard
Hauser
Brissett
Wenyen Gabriel
Stevens
Svi (will surprise some)
Kornet
Walsh (will get minutes)
Queta

That's 15 guys. We could use another decent big man, but that's it. This team is really good (on paper).

[obnoxiousmime]

I don't think the bench is that bad. What am I missing?

DWhite (could be 6MoY)
Pritchard
Hauser
Brissett
Wenyen Gabriel
Stevens
Svi (will surprise some)
Kornet
Walsh (will get minutes)
Queta

That's 15 guys. We could use another decent big man, but that's it. This team is really good (on paper).

I would also like a guard because I think Pritchard's size is a liability in the playoffs and Banton/Davison are too unproven/can't shoot well enough.

[Vermont Green]

I don't think the bench is that bad. What am I missing?

DWhite (could be 6MoY)
Pritchard
Hauser
Brissett
Wenyen Gabriel
Stevens
Svi (will surprise some)
Kornet
Walsh (will get minutes)
Queta

That's 15 guys. We could use another decent big man, but that's it. This team is really good (on paper).

I think you answered your own question.  What this bench lacks is any quality depth at PF and C (I am assuming both Horford and White are defacto starters).  I am not worried about the guards (Pritchard and Mykhailuik are fine behind Holiday and White) and I am not worried about the wings.  Our wing depth should be solid with Hauser, Brissett, Stevens, and maybe Walsh develops.  And the risk at these two groupings is not that high as the starters are solid and durable at guard and wing.

But we don't have any depth at big (PF/C) behind Porzingis and Horford.  You listed Kornet who is fine as a 3rd string, end of the bench guy but kind of iffy if he is getting regular minutes.  After Kornet, there is really nothing.  Queta is a 2-way and can't be expected to be any more than that.  Brissett will probably play a swing/PF role and take a chunk of minutes as a back up PF.  He might be fine enough in that role but that is not his natural position.  And then we are all hoping that Wenyen Gabriel emerges as a useful back up big.  That is a very thin grouping behind two starters with durability issues so yes, as it stand now you are right, we absolutely could use an additional quality big for the bench.

[celticinorlando]

Think Brad is going to see how the bench looks and if it needs help he will make an in season move.

[Vermont Green]

Think Brad is going to see how the bench looks and if it needs help he will make an in season move.

You may be right and I would be OK with that.  This team/roster is fine to start the season.  I will just add that there are probably going to be a flurry of waived players just before the season starts or teams will otherwise be shuffling some roster spots opening up trade possibilities with the TPE.  The Celtics should be ready to pounce if the right player becomes available.  I think they will.  The Holiday trades demonstrates that they are willing to pull the trigger, they are not necessarily just waiting for the season to start.  But by the same token, there is no need to bring in a player just to bring in a player.  If we start the season with the roster more or less as it is, that is fine.

[Goldstar88]

Might be talking about the bench players a little more over the next few games. Starters are getting banged up already… Should get TJ Warren in for another workout.