All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[Eddie20]

Noel is a rotation level player on one of the best teams in basketball.  As a 6th pick that is about what you get on average.  For example, his WS/48 are .107 which is good enough for 15th all time among 6th picks.  his total win shares currently has him at 36th of 72 all time 6th picks.  He will move up another 4 or 5 spots this season if he continues at his current pace.  He is 10th among 6th picks in rebounds per game and is 34th in points per game. 

In other words, I have a hard time calling Noel a bust.  He is about what you normally get from the 6th pick.  I mean these are the 6th picks starting with the most recent going back to our very own Antoine Walker.

Bamba, Isaac, Hield, Cauley-Stein, Smart, Noel, Lillard, Vesely, Udoh, Flynn, Gallinari, Jianlian, Roy, Webster, Childress, Kaman, Wagner, Battier, DeMarr Johnson, Szczerbiak, Traylor, Mercer, Walker

This is not exactly a whose who of greatness.  Sure you have guys like Lillard in there, but Noel, even right now might be in the top half of that list, with plenty of time to move up it.

This is absolute nonsense. The only thing your list surmises is that a lot of #6 picks have been busts. You can try to move goalposts all across the field, but the fact remains that Noel was a compete bust. You should go to a Sixers forum and post your gem of a post and see how it's received.

If you get a player that is about average for the draft slot that player isn't a bust.  I'm sorry that facts got in the way of your rant.

Being in line with the production of other people taken in your slot has nothing to do with being a bust though. Noel has failed to meet expectations, has regressed throughout his career, has bounced around the league at age 25 and has been worse than numerous players taken behind him. That’s a bust

Even looking at the 2013 draft Noel still almost certainly be a top 10 pick in a redraft as the only players that have clearly performed better than him are Giannis, Gobert, Oladipo, Adams, Porter, McCollum, and Olynyk (Covington wasn't drafted, but would also be ahead of him in a redraft).  He'd be somewhere in the next group with Schroder, Plumlee, Zeller, Roberson, Hardaway, KCP, and Dieng (I think he probably goes ahead of those guys, but Schroder and Hardaway are close enough I wouldn't quibble too much if someone preferred either of them).

No question Noel started off great.  You don't see too many rookies finish in the top 10 in blocks and steals, but his career has still ended up about what you would typically expect both as a 6th pick historically and not that far off from his original draft slot if you were to re-draft that draft now.

I think you should quit digging a further hole for yourself. Unless of course you want to lose total credibility when you start being overly critical of Celtics players. I mean you basically spent the whole summer blasting Irving and Brown, but oddly thought the Cavs would surprise and be a playoff team. You don't find it odd that you're always finding value in non-Celtics scrubs and teams, but then counter that positivity with being critical of Celtics players (Kyrie, Brown, etc.)and saying the team has no shot of winning a title?

[Moranis]

Noel is a rotation level player on one of the best teams in basketball.  As a 6th pick that is about what you get on average.  For example, his WS/48 are .107 which is good enough for 15th all time among 6th picks.  his total win shares currently has him at 36th of 72 all time 6th picks.  He will move up another 4 or 5 spots this season if he continues at his current pace.  He is 10th among 6th picks in rebounds per game and is 34th in points per game. 

In other words, I have a hard time calling Noel a bust.  He is about what you normally get from the 6th pick.  I mean these are the 6th picks starting with the most recent going back to our very own Antoine Walker.

Bamba, Isaac, Hield, Cauley-Stein, Smart, Noel, Lillard, Vesely, Udoh, Flynn, Gallinari, Jianlian, Roy, Webster, Childress, Kaman, Wagner, Battier, DeMarr Johnson, Szczerbiak, Traylor, Mercer, Walker

This is not exactly a whose who of greatness.  Sure you have guys like Lillard in there, but Noel, even right now might be in the top half of that list, with plenty of time to move up it.

This is absolute nonsense. The only thing your list surmises is that a lot of #6 picks have been busts. You can try to move goalposts all across the field, but the fact remains that Noel was a compete bust. You should go to a Sixers forum and post your gem of a post and see how it's received.

If you get a player that is about average for the draft slot that player isn't a bust.  I'm sorry that facts got in the way of your rant.

Being in line with the production of other people taken in your slot has nothing to do with being a bust though. Noel has failed to meet expectations, has regressed throughout his career, has bounced around the league at age 25 and has been worse than numerous players taken behind him. That’s a bust

Even looking at the 2013 draft Noel still almost certainly be a top 10 pick in a redraft as the only players that have clearly performed better than him are Giannis, Gobert, Oladipo, Adams, Porter, McCollum, and Olynyk (Covington wasn't drafted, but would also be ahead of him in a redraft).  He'd be somewhere in the next group with Schroder, Plumlee, Zeller, Roberson, Hardaway, KCP, and Dieng (I think he probably goes ahead of those guys, but Schroder and Hardaway are close enough I wouldn't quibble too much if someone preferred either of them).

No question Noel started off great.  You don't see too many rookies finish in the top 10 in blocks and steals, but his career has still ended up about what you would typically expect both as a 6th pick historically and not that far off from his original draft slot if you were to re-draft that draft now.

I think you should quit digging a further hole for yourself. Unless of course you want to lose total credibility when you start being overly critical of Celtics players. I mean you basically spent the whole summer blasting Irving and Brown, but oddly thought the Cavs would surprise and be a playoff team. You don't find it odd that you're always finding value in non-Celtics scrubs and teams, but then counter that positivity with being critical of Celtics players (Kyrie, Brown, etc.)and saying the team has no shot of winning a title?

ah more personal attacks without responding at all to a post.  normal eddie.

And that is your official warning.

[Eddie20]

Noel is a rotation level player on one of the best teams in basketball.  As a 6th pick that is about what you get on average.  For example, his WS/48 are .107 which is good enough for 15th all time among 6th picks.  his total win shares currently has him at 36th of 72 all time 6th picks.  He will move up another 4 or 5 spots this season if he continues at his current pace.  He is 10th among 6th picks in rebounds per game and is 34th in points per game. 

In other words, I have a hard time calling Noel a bust.  He is about what you normally get from the 6th pick.  I mean these are the 6th picks starting with the most recent going back to our very own Antoine Walker.

Bamba, Isaac, Hield, Cauley-Stein, Smart, Noel, Lillard, Vesely, Udoh, Flynn, Gallinari, Jianlian, Roy, Webster, Childress, Kaman, Wagner, Battier, DeMarr Johnson, Szczerbiak, Traylor, Mercer, Walker

This is not exactly a whose who of greatness.  Sure you have guys like Lillard in there, but Noel, even right now might be in the top half of that list, with plenty of time to move up it.

This is absolute nonsense. The only thing your list surmises is that a lot of #6 picks have been busts. You can try to move goalposts all across the field, but the fact remains that Noel was a compete bust. You should go to a Sixers forum and post your gem of a post and see how it's received.

If you get a player that is about average for the draft slot that player isn't a bust.  I'm sorry that facts got in the way of your rant.

Being in line with the production of other people taken in your slot has nothing to do with being a bust though. Noel has failed to meet expectations, has regressed throughout his career, has bounced around the league at age 25 and has been worse than numerous players taken behind him. That’s a bust

Even looking at the 2013 draft Noel still almost certainly be a top 10 pick in a redraft as the only players that have clearly performed better than him are Giannis, Gobert, Oladipo, Adams, Porter, McCollum, and Olynyk (Covington wasn't drafted, but would also be ahead of him in a redraft).  He'd be somewhere in the next group with Schroder, Plumlee, Zeller, Roberson, Hardaway, KCP, and Dieng (I think he probably goes ahead of those guys, but Schroder and Hardaway are close enough I wouldn't quibble too much if someone preferred either of them).

No question Noel started off great.  You don't see too many rookies finish in the top 10 in blocks and steals, but his career has still ended up about what you would typically expect both as a 6th pick historically and not that far off from his original draft slot if you were to re-draft that draft now.

I think you should quit digging a further hole for yourself. Unless of course you want to lose total credibility when you start being overly critical of Celtics players. I mean you basically spent the whole summer blasting Irving and Brown, but oddly thought the Cavs would surprise and be a playoff team. You don't find it odd that you're always finding value in non-Celtics scrubs and teams, but then counter that positivity with being critical of Celtics players (Kyrie, Brown, etc.)and saying the team has no shot of winning a title?

ah more personal attacks without responding at all to a post.  normal eddie.

And that is your official warning.

How is that a personal attack? You've posted the things I've said and I'm merely reminding you/others that your criticisms always seem to be reserved for one team, while being extremely positive of the other 29.

[Moranis]

Noel is a rotation level player on one of the best teams in basketball.  As a 6th pick that is about what you get on average.  For example, his WS/48 are .107 which is good enough for 15th all time among 6th picks.  his total win shares currently has him at 36th of 72 all time 6th picks.  He will move up another 4 or 5 spots this season if he continues at his current pace.  He is 10th among 6th picks in rebounds per game and is 34th in points per game. 

In other words, I have a hard time calling Noel a bust.  He is about what you normally get from the 6th pick.  I mean these are the 6th picks starting with the most recent going back to our very own Antoine Walker.

Bamba, Isaac, Hield, Cauley-Stein, Smart, Noel, Lillard, Vesely, Udoh, Flynn, Gallinari, Jianlian, Roy, Webster, Childress, Kaman, Wagner, Battier, DeMarr Johnson, Szczerbiak, Traylor, Mercer, Walker

This is not exactly a whose who of greatness.  Sure you have guys like Lillard in there, but Noel, even right now might be in the top half of that list, with plenty of time to move up it.

This is absolute nonsense. The only thing your list surmises is that a lot of #6 picks have been busts. You can try to move goalposts all across the field, but the fact remains that Noel was a compete bust. You should go to a Sixers forum and post your gem of a post and see how it's received.

If you get a player that is about average for the draft slot that player isn't a bust.  I'm sorry that facts got in the way of your rant.

Being in line with the production of other people taken in your slot has nothing to do with being a bust though. Noel has failed to meet expectations, has regressed throughout his career, has bounced around the league at age 25 and has been worse than numerous players taken behind him. That’s a bust

Even looking at the 2013 draft Noel still almost certainly be a top 10 pick in a redraft as the only players that have clearly performed better than him are Giannis, Gobert, Oladipo, Adams, Porter, McCollum, and Olynyk (Covington wasn't drafted, but would also be ahead of him in a redraft).  He'd be somewhere in the next group with Schroder, Plumlee, Zeller, Roberson, Hardaway, KCP, and Dieng (I think he probably goes ahead of those guys, but Schroder and Hardaway are close enough I wouldn't quibble too much if someone preferred either of them).

No question Noel started off great.  You don't see too many rookies finish in the top 10 in blocks and steals, but his career has still ended up about what you would typically expect both as a 6th pick historically and not that far off from his original draft slot if you were to re-draft that draft now.

I think you should quit digging a further hole for yourself. Unless of course you want to lose total credibility when you start being overly critical of Celtics players. I mean you basically spent the whole summer blasting Irving and Brown, but oddly thought the Cavs would surprise and be a playoff team. You don't find it odd that you're always finding value in non-Celtics scrubs and teams, but then counter that positivity with being critical of Celtics players (Kyrie, Brown, etc.)and saying the team has no shot of winning a title?

ah more personal attacks without responding at all to a post.  normal eddie.

And that is your official warning.

How is that a personal attack? You've posted the things I've said and I'm merely reminding you/others that your criticisms always seem to be reserved for one team, while being extremely positive of the other 29.

questioning another's fan hood.  attacking the credibility of a poster.  posting irrelevant unrelated topics when quoting a post.  All against site rules (or at least questionable things).  You've been warned.  If you can't keep things on topic without going personally at someone, I suggest you don't respond to posts.

[Erik]

This trade was really good for Philly. They got rid of 2 really overrated players and brought in a top 20 player. This one hurts... bad.

[coco]

This trade was really good for Philly. They got rid of 2 really overrated players and brought in a top 20 player. This one hurts... bad.

I think Minnesota did very well.  They got 2 for 1.  I like Dario.  He fits in perfectly with Minnesota and is not a primadona

[gouki88]

This trade was really good for Philly. They got rid of 2 really overrated players and brought in a top 20 player. This one hurts... bad.

I disagree with this take. I think Covington and Saric were of crucial importance, and I’m still unsure of the fit. It also looks really bad for Fultz.

If Philly want to overpay Butler over the next 4 years I’m happy to let them

[Erik]

Fultz was bad to begin with. Im convinced that he’s not an NBA rotational player. I’m not sure what the trade has to do with that.

Butler is an improvement on Covington defensively and a massive offensive upgrade. Saric just isn’t ever going to be a star, guys. He’s just Kelly Olynik. On paper it’s as if the guy should be amazing, but it just doesn’t work out in reality.

If the concern is resigning Butler, that’s a really bad take. Every team should want to max Butler because he’s a top 20 player. In todAys NBA, all Top 30 players are worthy of max contracts because there are 30 teams. Top 20 means that your max player is also “worth” it. Teams get into trouble when they sign 50-60 rank players to a max deal.

The disaster scenario is actually that they don’t get this working in time and Butler goes to the Knicks or something in the offseason.

[Moranis]

I agree with Erik on this one and I've been pretty high on Saric, but Butler is clearly a top 20 player and is arguably a top 10 player.  Those guys just don't grow on trees.  They are hard to get and if you can get one for 2 rotational players and a 2nd round pick (plus getting back an injured but recent near lottery 1st round pick), you have to make that trade every single day without a second of hesitation.

And I get that Butler is 29, but he has only played in 471 regular season games (about 15500 minutes), plus another 43 in the post season (1600 minutes).  For a point of comparison, those are about the same amount of games and minutes as Irving and this board doesn't seem to have any issue with giving Irving a 5 year max (and Irving has a worse injury history).  And they are way less then Horford's mileage when Boston gave him a max contract and less then Hayward as well (well not the post season for him, but he played in way more regular season games and minutes then Butler has to this point though maybe by the end of the year they will be comparable).

[moiso]

Fultz was bad to begin with. Im convinced that he’s not an NBA rotational player. I’m not sure what the trade has to do with that.

Butler is an improvement on Covington defensively and a massive offensive upgrade. Saric just isn’t ever going to be a star, guys. He’s just Kelly Olynik. On paper it’s as if the guy should be amazing, but it just doesn’t work out in reality.

If the concern is resigning Butler, that’s a really bad take. Every team should want to max Butler because he’s a top 20 player. In todAys NBA, all Top 30 players are worthy of max contracts because there are 30 teams. Top 20 means that your max player is also “worth” it. Teams get into trouble when they sign 50-60 rank players to a max deal.

The disaster scenario is actually that they don’t get this working in time and Butler goes to the Knicks or something in the offseason.

But Fultz is in an NBA rotation on a pretty good team.  Maybe he's not the second coming of Dwyane Wade but he's an NBA rotation player.

[Moranis]

Fultz was bad to begin with. Im convinced that he’s not an NBA rotational player. I’m not sure what the trade has to do with that.

Butler is an improvement on Covington defensively and a massive offensive upgrade. Saric just isn’t ever going to be a star, guys. He’s just Kelly Olynik. On paper it’s as if the guy should be amazing, but it just doesn’t work out in reality.

If the concern is resigning Butler, that’s a really bad take. Every team should want to max Butler because he’s a top 20 player. In todAys NBA, all Top 30 players are worthy of max contracts because there are 30 teams. Top 20 means that your max player is also “worth” it. Teams get into trouble when they sign 50-60 rank players to a max deal.

The disaster scenario is actually that they don’t get this working in time and Butler goes to the Knicks or something in the offseason.

But Fultz is in an NBA rotation on a pretty good team.  Maybe he's not the second coming of Dwyane Wade but he's an NBA rotation player.

yeah, and he has looked better this year then he did last year (weird hiccup in his FT shot not with standing).  Per 36 he isn't lighting the world on fire but 13/5/6 isn't terrible either.  And again we are just 32 games into his career. 

I actually think he will do better on the bench because he and Simmons just aren't a good match (both of them are better without the other on the floor). 

[Phantom255x]

This trade was really good for Philly. They got rid of 2 really overrated players and brought in a top 20 player. This one hurts... bad.

I disagree with this take. I think Covington and Saric were of crucial importance, and I’m still unsure of the fit. It also looks really bad for Fultz.

If Philly want to overpay Butler over the next 4 years I’m happy to let them

Yeah Saric and Covington were the only pure shooters besides Reddick on that team.

Butler is a pure shooter BUT he needs the ball to create his own shot and in a way that kinds of hurts Simmons' value on the court especially when PHI plays great teams like TOR, GSW, etc.

PHI won the trade but I don't think MIN truly lost it either. Can't believe MIN didn't get a single future first round pick from the deal though.

[Moranis]

Calling Covington a pure shooter is pretty strange to me (though he is setting his career high by a wide margin this far this year). Chandler is the same level of shooter as RCo is for their careers though.  Shamet is a pure shooter though as a rookie who knows.  Saric is a good but not great shooter.  The Sixers need another shooter but they didn't exactly lose a guy like Redick in the shooting department either

[apc]

And... Fultz is going back to the doctor to look at his shoulder. 

"76ers' 2017 No. 1 overall pick Markelle Fultz will see a specialist for his shoulder in New York within the next week"

[Donoghus]

And... Fultz is going back to the doctor to look at his shoulder. 

"76ers' 2017 No. 1 overall pick Markelle Fultz will see a specialist for his shoulder in New York within the next week"

At the recommendation of his lawyer of all people!

Ian Begley
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Markelle Fultz is scheduled to see a shoulder specialist early next week at the direction of his attorney, Raymond Brothers. Brothers says Fultz won’t participate in Sixers practices/games until after the specialist has a chance to evaluate him, as first reported by The Athletic.