MJ to Ray Allen: "one championship is lucky." Did this happen?

[droopdog7]

People around here are seriously sensitive.  It was nothing more than competitive ribbing from MJ.  And you know what, he's right.  There is a definite line between winning one versus multiple titles.

[csfansince60s]

I kind of remember this.  If Jordan never had Pippen he might have been lucky to win one.

And if Jordan's teams had any competition, he might not have won any!!!

The 80s Cs had the '6ers, Lakers and then the Bad Boys to battle them. They all battled each other.

Who did Jordan have to contend with to win  6?

They beat the old, end of the line Lakers, the Blazers and the Suns!!!! Wow...big deal!

Then the Sonics, Jazz and Jazz?....some real dynastic franchises there, huh?

If Lenny Bias had lived, Jordan may not have won any.

Jordan vs Russ....fugheadaboutit. Magic and Bird over Jordan too.

He didn't have anyone to contend with because he was THAT good. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon (only won when MJ was retired), Ewing, Drexler, Payton, Robinson, Miller, Hardaway, Mullin, Smith didn't win anything because of how good MJ was.

Oh and when Jordan was young, he scored 63 against our Cs, beat the Bad Boy Pistons, albeit after three tries, beat the Lakers, won MVP in 88 while Bird's and Magic's teams were still good, and is the all-time playoff scoring leader in POINTS and POINTS PER GAME (33.5 PPG, #2 is AI with 29.7 PPG, that's a whopping 4-point difference). No one else comes close. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

Dr. J and Moses only won one title because of Magic/Bird. Those chumps you mention can't be mentioned in the same breath as The Doctah and Moses, with the exception perhaps of Olajuwon. Jordan had no-one to challenge him. You are only as great as the dragons you slay, and Jordan did up a bunch of non-superstars.

For nine consecutive seasons, The Lakers and Celtics dominated and won every championship except for the one year the '6ers won theirs. 8 championships between them. Tong wars.

It amazes me the hyperbole that surrounds Jordan and those Bull teams, some people referring to that 72 win Bulls team as "the best team ever". Gimme a break. The 80's Lakers, Celtics, Pistons and '6ers would have all done them up, matchup-wise alone, never mind total talent.

Magic won 5 titles, one less than Jordan. Magic was the superior player because of the dragons he killed and the way he killed them. How many would he have won if Bird wasn't around, or vice versa?

Ask that Dr J '6er team about that rookie out of Michigan State who took on Darryl Dawkins and Caldwell Jones and who brought the ball up on offense and beat that team in game 6 of the NBA Finals almost singlehandedly. That's greatness. (AND I HATE THE LAKERS).

Back of the bus, MJ, behind Russ and Magic and Bird and Jabbar.

Overrated.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I kind of remember this.  If Jordan never had Pippen he might have been lucky to win one.

And if Jordan's teams had any competition, he might not have won any!!!

The 80s Cs had the '6ers, Lakers and then the Bad Boys to battle them. They all battled each other.

Who did Jordan have to contend with to win  6?

They beat the old, end of the line Lakers, the Blazers and the Suns!!!! Wow...big deal!

Then the Sonics, Jazz and Jazz?....some real dynastic franchises there, huh?

If Lenny Bias had lived, Jordan may not have won any.

Jordan vs Russ....fugheadaboutit. Magic and Bird over Jordan too.

He didn't have anyone to contend with because he was THAT good. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon (only won when MJ was retired), Ewing, Drexler, Payton, Robinson, Miller, Hardaway, Mullin, Smith didn't win anything because of how good MJ was.

Oh and when Jordan was young, he scored 63 against our Cs, beat the Bad Boy Pistons, albeit after three tries, beat the Lakers, won MVP in 88 while Bird's and Magic's teams were still good, and is the all-time playoff scoring leader in POINTS and POINTS PER GAME (33.5 PPG, #2 is AI with 29.7 PPG, that's a whopping 4-point difference). No one else comes close. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

Dr. J and Moses only won one title because of Magic/Bird. Those chumps you mention can't be mentioned in the same breath as The Doctah and Moses, with the exception perhaps of Olajuwon. Jordan had no-one to challenge him. You are only as great as the dragons you slay, and Jordan did up a bunch of non-superstars.

For nine consecutive seasons, The Lakers and Celtics dominated and won every championship except for the one year the '6ers won theirs. 8 championships between them. Tong wars.

It amazes me the hyperbole that surrounds Jordan and those Bull teams, some people referring to that 72 win Bulls team as "the best team ever". Gimme a break. The 80's Lakers, Celtics, Pistons and '6ers would have all done them up, matchup-wise alone, never mind total talent.

Magic won 5 titles, one less than Jordan. Magic was the superior player because of the dragons he killed and the way he killed them. How many would he have won if Bird wasn't around, or vice versa?

Ask that Dr J '6er team about that rookie out of Michigan State who took on Darryl Dawkins and Caldwell Jones and who brought the ball up on offense and beat that team in game 6 of the NBA Finals almost singlehandedly. That's greatness. (AND I HATE THE LAKERS).

Back of the bus, MJ, behind Russ and Magic and Bird and Jabbar.

Overrated.

well said. while MJ was perhaps the best player ever, his TEAMS were NOT as you elaborated.

[csfansince60s]

I kind of remember this.  If Jordan never had Pippen he might have been lucky to win one.

And if Jordan's teams had any competition, he might not have won any!!!

The 80s Cs had the '6ers, Lakers and then the Bad Boys to battle them. They all battled each other.

Who did Jordan have to contend with to win  6?

They beat the old, end of the line Lakers, the Blazers and the Suns!!!! Wow...big deal!

Then the Sonics, Jazz and Jazz?....some real dynastic franchises there, huh?

If Lenny Bias had lived, Jordan may not have won any.

Jordan vs Russ....fugheadaboutit. Magic and Bird over Jordan too.

He didn't have anyone to contend with because he was THAT good. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon (only won when MJ was retired), Ewing, Drexler, Payton, Robinson, Miller, Hardaway, Mullin, Smith didn't win anything because of how good MJ was.

Oh and when Jordan was young, he scored 63 against our Cs, beat the Bad Boy Pistons, albeit after three tries, beat the Lakers, won MVP in 88 while Bird's and Magic's teams were still good, and is the all-time playoff scoring leader in POINTS and POINTS PER GAME (33.5 PPG, #2 is AI with 29.7 PPG, that's a whopping 4-point difference). No one else comes close. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

Dr. J and Moses only won one title because of Magic/Bird. Those chumps you mention can't be mentioned in the same breath as The Doctah and Moses, with the exception perhaps of Olajuwon. Jordan had no-one to challenge him. You are only as great as the dragons you slay, and Jordan did up a bunch of non-superstars.

For nine consecutive seasons, The Lakers and Celtics dominated and won every championship except for the one year the '6ers won theirs. 8 championships between them. Tong wars.

It amazes me the hyperbole that surrounds Jordan and those Bull teams, some people referring to that 72 win Bulls team as "the best team ever". Gimme a break. The 80's Lakers, Celtics, Pistons and '6ers would have all done them up, matchup-wise alone, never mind total talent.

Magic won 5 titles, one less than Jordan. Magic was the superior player because of the dragons he killed and the way he killed them. How many would he have won if Bird wasn't around, or vice versa?

Ask that Dr J '6er team about that rookie out of Michigan State who took on Darryl Dawkins and Caldwell Jones and who brought the ball up on offense and beat that team in game 6 of the NBA Finals almost singlehandedly. That's greatness. (AND I HATE THE LAKERS).

Back of the bus, MJ, behind Russ and Magic and Bird and Jabbar.

Overrated.

well said. while MJ was perhaps the best player ever, his TEAMS were NOT as you elaborated.

TP, Lep ,  ever the diplomat with  that "perhaps" slipped in there.... That's a big "perhaps" for me, but much respect for you

[fitzhickey]

I agree with pretty much all csfan said, except when calling Hakeem and Barkley chumps.

[csfansince60s]

I agree with pretty much all csfan said, except when calling Hakeem and Barkley chumps.

TP.

 I did give The Dream props, but Sir Charles and the Mailman perhaps deserve some too, and even the other players mentioned aren't chumps either, but invoking any of their names to attempt to prove that Jordan was the best isn't like mentioning Dr J, Moses, Magic, Bird, Jabbar and McHale.

[Finkelskyhook]

I wonder how many championships Jordan would've won if he'd have been officiated by the same rulebook as his peers.

[DarkAzcura]

if our championship team played the current East right now we would not have gotten to the ring

Um, what? The NBA right now feels really diluted, which is funny considering the stars all joining up. If the 2012 Celtics could take the Heat to 7 games, I'm scared of what kind of beatdown a healthy 2007-2009 Celtics team would put on the East. They were essentially a rich man's version of today's Pacer team.

I wish that KG injury never happened. Dang. That 07-08 team was great, but 08-09 was when they REALLY figured out how to play together. It's too bad. 07-08 was only the beginning, imo.

[Mr October]

People around here are seriously sensitive.  It was nothing more than competitive ribbing from MJ.  And you know what, he's right.  There is a definite line between winning one versus multiple titles.

Yup. The 2008 Celtics were awesome. The following few seasons were derailed by injuries. Old age caught up. Even in 2008, the Celtics were right on the edge of getting defeated by Lebron's Cavs in Round 2. Thank goodness Pierce had one of his best games ever.

In the end, that Celtics team won 1 ring. They will remain in the category of the other 1 ring winners.

I still watch games now and then from that year. I still love that team. Let's go build another one.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I kind of remember this.  If Jordan never had Pippen he might have been lucky to win one.

And if Jordan's teams had any competition, he might not have won any!!!

The 80s Cs had the '6ers, Lakers and then the Bad Boys to battle them. They all battled each other.

Who did Jordan have to contend with to win  6?

They beat the old, end of the line Lakers, the Blazers and the Suns!!!! Wow...big deal!

Then the Sonics, Jazz and Jazz?....some real dynastic franchises there, huh?

If Lenny Bias had lived, Jordan may not have won any.

Jordan vs Russ....fugheadaboutit. Magic and Bird over Jordan too.

He didn't have anyone to contend with because he was THAT good. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon (only won when MJ was retired), Ewing, Drexler, Payton, Robinson, Miller, Hardaway, Mullin, Smith didn't win anything because of how good MJ was.

Oh and when Jordan was young, he scored 63 against our Cs, beat the Bad Boy Pistons, albeit after three tries, beat the Lakers, won MVP in 88 while Bird's and Magic's teams were still good, and is the all-time playoff scoring leader in POINTS and POINTS PER GAME (33.5 PPG, #2 is AI with 29.7 PPG, that's a whopping 4-point difference). No one else comes close. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

Dr. J and Moses only won one title because of Magic/Bird. Those chumps you mention can't be mentioned in the same breath as The Doctah and Moses, with the exception perhaps of Olajuwon. Jordan had no-one to challenge him. You are only as great as the dragons you slay, and Jordan did up a bunch of non-superstars.

For nine consecutive seasons, The Lakers and Celtics dominated and won every championship except for the one year the '6ers won theirs. 8 championships between them. Tong wars.

It amazes me the hyperbole that surrounds Jordan and those Bull teams, some people referring to that 72 win Bulls team as "the best team ever". Gimme a break. The 80's Lakers, Celtics, Pistons and '6ers would have all done them up, matchup-wise alone, never mind total talent.

Magic won 5 titles, one less than Jordan. Magic was the superior player because of the dragons he killed and the way he killed them. How many would he have won if Bird wasn't around, or vice versa?

Ask that Dr J '6er team about that rookie out of Michigan State who took on Darryl Dawkins and Caldwell Jones and who brought the ball up on offense and beat that team in game 6 of the NBA Finals almost singlehandedly. That's greatness. (AND I HATE THE LAKERS).

Back of the bus, MJ, behind Russ and Magic and Bird and Jabbar.

Overrated.

well said. while MJ was perhaps the best player ever, his TEAMS were NOT as you elaborated.

TP, Lep ,  ever the diplomat with  that "perhaps" slipped in there.... That's a big "perhaps" for me, but much respect for you

thanks brother......TP to you as well!!!!

[LilRip]

A dynasty is a dynasty. i saw a post earlier about how LA/Bos won 8 championships combined during their era. How is this different really from Bulls/Rockets dominating the 90s with their 8 championships combined, with MJ's bulls winning 6 and Hakeem's rockets winning the other 2 (when MJ wasn't around)?

To discount those rings would be like discounting every single multi-championship team (Shaq's Lakers, Duncan's Spurs, Lebron's Heat) that won thereafter simply because the league has expanded or because there are less all-stars on each team. Teams are a byproduct of their generation. The best teams generally make it to their respective conference Finals, and dominant teams are able to win it all in multiple years.

[wayupnorth]

MJ is a product of advertising.

Great player, but not on level of Magic/Bird/Wilt/Russell.

Benefited from a playing at a time when the league was weak, and was got calls that no other player in the league would get.

Quite overrated.

[DesertDweller]

There is a little bit of everything involved in winning a championship. and luck has a lot to do with it. I am specifically speaking about injuries. one key injury can make a sure winner into a disappointing loser. over all, just in one game, there are so many different things that can happen to change the outcome.

[Snakehead]

There is a little bit of everything involved in winning a championship. and luck has a lot to do with it. I am specifically speaking about injuries. one key injury can make a sure winner into a disappointing loser. over all, just in one game, there are so many different things that can happen to change the outcome.

I think we all know that well!   

[guava_wrench]

There is luck and chance involved in everything. The more something happens, the less the role that chance plays in the outcome.

If you roll a die twice and get a 6 both times, that is probably chance. If you roll a die 20 times and get 6 20 times, the die is probably weighted.

Every championship is lucky, but a team is truly the best of its era if it wins 3 in a row or 6 in 8 years.