CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: CelticsQuestFor18 on May 11, 2018, 09:29:09 AM
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Most mock projections don't have Bamba in the Top-5 of their mocks, but most have him going somewhere in the 6-9 range (with a few having him go at 5). I think that's fair to be honest, considering the risks involved with him as well. W/o those risks, Bamba could be in the same tier as Ayton who is projected to be a Top-2 pick this June.
I'm enjoying our current playoff run with Scary Terry, but looking ahead I think there's three options going forward:
(1) Keep Rozier for next season to make a legit run at Banner 18, and likely lose him next summer in FA (Some team offers him near-max or something which we don't match)
(2) Lose Smart in RFA, so Ainge keeps Rozier and works an extension with him (even if it's for a lot more $$$ than expected)
(3) Sell high on Rozier THIS summer
Seeing what Ainge has done previously, I honestly think either (2) or (3) is done. Ainge won't just lose Rozier for absolutely nothing if the writing is in the wall (and it seems it is, as Rozier will command a big pay day and will probably want to start understandably). I also predict Smart's market is a bit over-exaggerated and he won't command as much as people think, so Ainge re-signs him in the 9-12M a year range (still a great pay day, but not 15M+ a year).
So is there a chance Rozier + asset(s) (NOT Kings Pick) can get us into the 6-9 range to select Bamba, or is Bamba simply out of our range? I'm pretty high on Bamba, even if he is currently "raw" and isn't as polished as the others yet. Or are you all just not Bamba fans lol?
Anyways, GO C'S! Keep proving the doubters wrong!
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I don't think it is realistic that we can trade up even including Rozier in a package unless it also included Sac pick, which would be too much. I'd consider trading our 1st pick and our Clip pick to go up enough to draft Mitchell Robinson, who is probably going to land in high teens or low twenties, unless his stock climbs during workouts. Given his athleticism, a distinct possibility.
I think Robinson will be better than Bamba in the NBA. Much higher motor. Only question is his head, which I concede is a big IF.
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What can Nerlens Noel expect to make in the open market? I don't suppose we could sign him with min deal, right?
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I don't think it is realistic that we can trade up even including Rozier in a package unless it also included Sac pick, which would be too much. I'd consider trading our 1st pick and our Clip pick to go up enough to draft Mitchell Robinson, who is probably going to land in high teens or low twenties, unless his stock climbs during workouts. Given his athleticism, a distinct possibility.
I think Robinson will be better than Bamba in the NBA. Much higher motor. Only question is his head, which I concede is a big IF.
Is it really that hard to believe we could package Rozier, one of our picks, and possibly the Clippers pick?
That being said, Bamba cannot shoot, so how would he even fit in our offense.
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What can Nerlens Noel expect to make in the open market? I don't suppose we could sign him with min deal, right?
I actually think both Noel and Okafor are going to have to sign vet. min deals if they want to play (as prove it deals). Idk, maybe a team gets desperate or are actually super high on either and offer them around 4-7M/year or MLE?? (Doubt it)
Might be in the minority, but I wouldn't mind if Boston signed one of them to a minimum deal. If we project to keep one of Baynes/Monroe and lose the other, then we could sign a Noel or Okafor on the cheap and have a front court of Morris (I don't see us trading him), Horford, Theis, Baynes/Monroe, Okafor/Noel. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and they are just on the bench for the most part. Best case scenario, they are solid role players for us in a Banner run (and improve their value a ton going into the summer of 2019).
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I think the only significant piece left for this team is to get a top big in the draft and start their development. Spending the Sac pick along with Rozier is fine with me. I'm not sure what the point would be of bringing in a top prospect at another position, unless we also shed some players we have now. We would still would have some quality draft picks in the next few years to fill in any role positions. This is an unusually good big man draft and next year isn't. I hope the C's go for it.
Bamba, Jackson or Carter would all be great additions. Carter is by far the most suited to eventually filling Al Horford's shoes, although perhaps when Jaylen and Jason are in their prime, we won't need that so much. Bamba and Jackson could be defensive monsters.
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What can Nerlens Noel expect to make in the open market? I don't suppose we could sign him with min deal, right?
I actually think both Noel and Okafor are going to have to sign vet. min deals if they want to play (as prove it deals). Idk, maybe a team gets desperate or are actually super high on either and offer them around 4-7M/year or MLE?? (Doubt it)
Might be in the minority, but I wouldn't mind if Boston signed one of them to a minimum deal. If we project to keep one of Baynes/Monroe and lose the other, then we could sign a Noel or Okafor on the cheap and have a front court of Morris (I don't see us trading him), Horford, Theis, Baynes/Monroe, Okafor/Noel. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and they are just on the bench for the most part. Best case scenario, they are solid role players for us in a Banner run (and improve their value a ton going into the summer of 2019).
I'd take a chance on Noel given his defensive prowess and athleticism.
Hoping we sign Baynes instead of Monroe, given his defensive utility against the Embiids of this world, not to mention the prospect of developing a 3 point shot.
If we end up signing Monroe, can't imagine we'd even consider Okafor.
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What can Nerlens Noel expect to make in the open market? I don't suppose we could sign him with min deal, right?
I actually think both Noel and Okafor are going to have to sign vet. min deals if they want to play (as prove it deals). Idk, maybe a team gets desperate or are actually super high on either and offer them around 4-7M/year or MLE?? (Doubt it)
Might be in the minority, but I wouldn't mind if Boston signed one of them to a minimum deal. If we project to keep one of Baynes/Monroe and lose the other, then we could sign a Noel or Okafor on the cheap and have a front court of Morris (I don't see us trading him), Horford, Theis, Baynes/Monroe, Okafor/Noel. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and they are just on the bench for the most part. Best case scenario, they are solid role players for us in a Banner run (and improve their value a ton going into the summer of 2019).
I'd take a chance on Noel given his defensive prowess and athleticism.
Hoping we sign Baynes instead of Monroe, given his defensive utility against the Embiids of this world, not to mention the prospect of developing a 3 point shot.
If we end up signing Monroe, can't imagine we'd even consider Okafor.
I'd personally hand Baynes the MLE (8-9M) and hope we keep Smart at around 9-10M/Year.
Then sign one of Okafor/Noel on the minimum, with preference on Noel who is also a Massachusetts native! ;D
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I think the only significant piece left for this team is to get a top big in the draft and start their development. Spending the Sac pick along with Rozier is fine with me. I'm not sure what the point would be of bringing in a top prospect at another position, unless we also shed some players we have now. We would still would have some quality draft picks in the next few years to fill in any role positions. This is an unusually good best big man draft and next year isn't. I hope the C's go for it.
Bamba, Jackson or Carter would all be great additions. Carter is by far the most suited to eventually filling Al Horford's shoes, although perhaps when Jaylen and Jason are in their prime, we won't need that so much. Bamba and Jackson could be defensive monsters.
That's a high price to pay for Carter. Don't think he is worth that much. I have my misgivings with the other two as well. What are your thoughts on Robinson?
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What can Nerlens Noel expect to make in the open market? I don't suppose we could sign him with min deal, right?
I actually think both Noel and Okafor are going to have to sign vet. min deals if they want to play (as prove it deals). Idk, maybe a team gets desperate or are actually super high on either and offer them around 4-7M/year or MLE?? (Doubt it)
Might be in the minority, but I wouldn't mind if Boston signed one of them to a minimum deal. If we project to keep one of Baynes/Monroe and lose the other, then we could sign a Noel or Okafor on the cheap and have a front court of Morris (I don't see us trading him), Horford, Theis, Baynes/Monroe, Okafor/Noel. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and they are just on the bench for the most part. Best case scenario, they are solid role players for us in a Banner run (and improve their value a ton going into the summer of 2019).
I'd take a chance on Noel given his defensive prowess and athleticism.
Hoping we sign Baynes instead of Monroe, given his defensive utility against the Embiids of this world, not to mention the prospect of developing a 3 point shot.
If we end up signing Monroe, can't imagine we'd even consider Okafor.
I'd personally hand Baynes the MLE (8-9M) and hope we keep Smart at around 9-10M/Year.
Then sign one of Okafor/Noel on the minimum, with preference on Noel who is also a Massachusetts native! ;D
I agree re Baynes. We wouldn't get past Philly in 5 games without him. He has earned a lot of value for Celtics in these playoffs.
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Who might have an interest in Rozier?
Magic at 5? Maybe. They liked him last year. The problem is value. They might like him, but not enough to give up the 5th pick. A Rozier-Fournier-Gordon-Isaac core is athletic, switchy, and pretty good shooters.
Bulls at 6? Maybe, but doubtful. They already have Dunn and Lavine in the backcourt. It seems more likely they would take one of the bigs available to continue to build.
Kings at 7? Maybe, but doubtful. They have Fox and Hield. Rozier is probably better than both of those guys and can play with both of them. At this point, the Kings could use a proven up-and-coming talent with competitiveness and heart.
Cavs at 8? Doubtful. Can you imagine the spectacle if the Cavs wind up with essential Rozier for Irving?
Knicks at 9? Possibly, but I doubt Bamba will still be available. Rozier in the garden would be great for him. He'd be appreciated there.
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Who might have an interest in Rozier?
Magic at 5? Maybe. They liked him last year. The problem is value. They might like him, but not enough to give up the 5th pick. A Rozier-Fournier-Gordon-Isaac core is athletic, switchy, and pretty good shooters.
Bulls at 6? Maybe, but doubtful. They already have Dunn and Lavine in the backcourt. It seems more likely they would take one of the bigs available to continue to build.
Kings at 7? Maybe, but doubtful. They have Fox and Hield. Rozier is probably better than both of those guys and can play with both of them. At this point, the Kings could use a proven up-and-coming talent with competitiveness and heart.
Cavs at 8? Doubtful. Can you imagine the spectacle if the Cavs wind up with essential Rozier for Irving?
Knicks at 9? Possibly, but I doubt Bamba will still be available. Rozier in the garden would be great for him. He'd be appreciated there.
If we package some picks+ Rozier, Yabusele, and someone else, do you think Magic would bite?
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Who might have an interest in Rozier?
Magic at 5? Maybe. They liked him last year. The problem is value. They might like him, but not enough to give up the 5th pick. A Rozier-Fournier-Gordon-Isaac core is athletic, switchy, and pretty good shooters.
Bulls at 6? Maybe, but doubtful. They already have Dunn and Lavine in the backcourt. It seems more likely they would take one of the bigs available to continue to build.
Kings at 7? Maybe, but doubtful. They have Fox and Hield. Rozier is probably better than both of those guys and can play with both of them. At this point, the Kings could use a proven up-and-coming talent with competitiveness and heart.
Cavs at 8? Doubtful. Can you imagine the spectacle if the Cavs wind up with essential Rozier for Irving?
Knicks at 9? Possibly, but I doubt Bamba will still be available. Rozier in the garden would be great for him. He'd be appreciated there.
If we package some picks+ Rozier, Yabusele, and someone else, do you think Magic would bite?
I get the idea of selling high on Rozier. I'd rather keep him, but he might appreciate the opportunity to start. I probably wouldn't give up Yabusele (like him too much), but I might give up the Cs 2018 1st and the Memphis pick.
On their side, it depends on how much they like Rozier. They liked him enough to offer Ibaka, whom they got for Sabonis, Illyasova, and Oladipo -- although that trade was lopsided, that gives an idea that they value him pretty highly. If they thought that in an uptempo spread offense with a high usage rate, Rozier could be a 20 and 5 guy, then he'd be worth the 5th pick.
There's another aspect also -- culture shifts. Rozier's energy, competitiveness, and light-heartedness could be a catalyst to change an organizations culture, especially if they get the right coach (Laranaga?).
They might look at their options at 5 and be unimpressed. Porter has question marks about his back, ball-handling, and quickness. Young might not be better than Rozier. Bamba is raw and might never develop without a firm system and culture in place.
They could hold on to the pick until draft night to see if one of the top 4 drops, but when that doesn't happen, they might rather have a 23 year old two-way point guard who played like an NBA starter in the playoffs and is on a team-controlled contract for the next 5-6 years.
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Who might have an interest in Rozier?
Magic at 5? Maybe. They liked him last year. The problem is value. They might like him, but not enough to give up the 5th pick. A Rozier-Fournier-Gordon-Isaac core is athletic, switchy, and pretty good shooters.
Bulls at 6? Maybe, but doubtful. They already have Dunn and Lavine in the backcourt. It seems more likely they would take one of the bigs available to continue to build.
Kings at 7? Maybe, but doubtful. They have Fox and Hield. Rozier is probably better than both of those guys and can play with both of them. At this point, the Kings could use a proven up-and-coming talent with competitiveness and heart.
Cavs at 8? Doubtful. Can you imagine the spectacle if the Cavs wind up with essential Rozier for Irving?
Knicks at 9? Possibly, but I doubt Bamba will still be available. Rozier in the garden would be great for him. He'd be appreciated there.
If Bamba was available at 8, I think I would do Terry plus the Sacramento pick to Cleveland for Bamba, and I think Cleveland would strongly consider that offer, as I expect them to be shopping that pick for an upgrade right now. I think that's a win-win for both sides.
For Cleveland, I think they'll likely be shopping that pick for a star to pair with Lebron to convince him to stay in Cleveland, which seems to be more realistic now than prior to the playoffs; however, I don't think they get any current star or budding star with the number eight pick. But an offer of Rozier and the Sacramento pick would still be a good get for them, as Rozier is young enough to be a core piece moving forward (with or without Lebron) while also able to help them out next year. He's also from the Cleveland area, so he's likely to stay there long-term. A lineup of Rozier, Hill, Lebron, Love, and TT moving forward is really nice for them, and they'd still get to keep a higher-potential pick for next year's draft, though it doesn't seem to be nearly as deep or talented.
For Boston, someone like Bamba would be the absolute perfect fit in our young core moving forward, as we lack a young, defensive-minded big that can be plugged in alongside Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, and Tatum eventually. He would also have an excellent mentor readily available in Horford, and we'd have the luxury right now of bringing him along slowly off the bench and allowing him to develop into what we need. It also probably means keeping Smart long-term, which I think is crucial to our continued success. And while it would mean losing the Sacramento pick, that draft looks really weak as it is right now, and there is a substantial lack of bigs to choose from in that draft, which is what we really need. I'd rather pay for Bamba now than risk taking something lesser in a lesser position of need next year.
If Bamba falls to 9 I could also see a deal going down centering around Rozier and one of our lesser picks to NY.
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I don't know if I like Bamba, or like the idea of trading Rozier neccesarily. But we need to make moves so make Al's decision legitimized. We need to be a serious contender next year. I think that probably happens by finding a Clint Capela, Jusuf Nurkic, or dare I say it... Steven Adams.
Actually yeah, Adams for Rozier + Sac pick? Is that completely crazy?
Maybe even some package for Cauley-Stein or Whiteside or gulp, Brook Lopez.
I would probably even settle for Cody Zeller or Willy Hernangomez
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I would offer Rozier and the Kings pick for a top 4 or 5 pick if there was a big man worthy there.
But not for later picks. I believe in the Kings ineptitude.
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Orlando seems like the perfect team to make a deal with, but not sure they want to deal a chance a franchise player for Rozier.
What about a trade of Rozier and Nader for Isaac? Too much, too little? This would allow the Magic to build around Gordon and whatever big they get in this draft along with Rozier and Fournier. We would get two additional years of rookie scale contract in a versatile big in Isaac.
I would be into a Rozier for Bamba trade, but wouldn’t throw in the Sac or Mem picks. I honestly don’t want to give up Rozier at all, but our salary is about to explode and there really isn’t much choice unless we trade Irving.
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Most mock projections don't have Bamba in the Top-5 of their mocks, but most have him going somewhere in the 6-9 range (with a few having him go at 5). I think that's fair to be honest, considering the risks involved with him as well. W/o those risks, Bamba could be in the same tier as Ayton who is projected to be a Top-2 pick this June.
I'm enjoying our current playoff run with Scary Terry, but looking ahead I think there's three options going forward:
(1) Keep Rozier for next season to make a legit run at Banner 18, and likely lose him next summer in FA (Some team offers him near-max or something which we don't match)
(2) Lose Smart in RFA, so Ainge keeps Rozier and works an extension with him (even if it's for a lot more $$$ than expected)
(3) Sell high on Rozier THIS summer
Seeing what Ainge has done previously, I honestly think either (2) or (3) is done. Ainge won't just lose Rozier for absolutely nothing if the writing is in the wall (and it seems it is, as Rozier will command a big pay day and will probably want to start understandably). I also predict Smart's market is a bit over-exaggerated and he won't command as much as people think, so Ainge re-signs him in the 9-12M a year range (still a great pay day, but not 15M+ a year).
So is there a chance Rozier + asset(s) (NOT Kings Pick) can get us into the 6-9 range to select Bamba, or is Bamba simply out of our range? I'm pretty high on Bamba, even if he is currently "raw" and isn't as polished as the others yet. Or are you all just not Bamba fans lol?
Anyways, GO C'S! Keep proving the doubters wrong!
There is no way Scary Terry (who if a Free Agent) in a year, will be able to bring you back a top 10 pick
Unless he is the MVP of the ECF
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I have been thinking about the potential of trading Rozier and its affects on the off-season a lot.
My short answer would be No I do not think Cs can trade up for Bamba and if they can it will cost them most of their future draft capital.
My long answer
Bottom line is that I think the Cs move Rozier to A. Cash out max trade value B. move some $$ off the books to help stay under the Luxury tax.
When establishing trade the best precedent to look at is the 2011 George Hill for #12 (Kawhi Leonard) trade
At the time Hill was coming off of a season at saw him average 11pts 2.5rb 2.5 ast as Tony Parker's Backup.
In the 2011 draft Kawhi Leonard was ranked by Chad Ford as a tier 3 prospect. Fords Tier 3 was reserved for players who Fords league insiders viewed as solid high end starters.
When projecting this previous trade onto Roziers value the first thing that stands out to me is that Rozier is the more productive player. It also should be noted that both Hill and Rozier had similar contracts with both players having 1 year left on deals.
With out the benefit of Fords tiers for this draft I can only speculate who he would have in his tier 3. My guess is that Doncic, Ayton, Jackson, Bagely, Porter and Bamba would all be in Tier 1 or 2. With Bamba being on the edge of 2/3.
The last and most important aspect to look at is demand. My quick guess is that the Suns, Hawks, Magic, Cavs (gross), Knicks, 76ers (yuck), and Clippers are all lottery teams who may have interest in Rozier.
I think the Suns and Hawks can be eliminated with their top picks.
The Magic are an interesting possibility if the Cs are willing to include multiple future 1st but I find that unlikely.
I just cant see DA sending Terry to the Cavs and i also think they will be hoping for a home run with that pick if Lebron leaves.
The Knicks is where I think things get interesting. Knicks fans will likely balk at the idea but a Rozier + #27 + clippers pick for #9 could make sense. Rozier and Nikitina would form a versatile athletic young back-court and Roziers energy would be create for the team culture.
The 76ers is a weird trade given the recent series and one that I just cant see happening despite the fit.
The clippers with 12 and 13 seem to make a lot of sense if the Cs value a player in this range. This might be the point in the trade speculation where the Cs ask for additional value maybe in the form of a future 2nd.
The other trade out there could be with the Suns at #16. This is later then I would hope for but maybe the inclusion of an unprotected future 2nd or the #31 and Tyler Ulis makes this a possibility. Ulis would serve as a really cheap backup who may actually thrice on Cs.
So barring any bigger 3 team deals where a team like the Hornets moves their point guard this leaves us with some what logical trades for picks #9, #12, or #16
From the mocks ive seen the assumptions are that Doncic, Ayton, Bagely, Jackson and M Porter (if healthy) are all gone in the top 5 and definitely in the top 8.
The consensuses next 5 appears to be
Bamba
Young
Bridges
Bridges
Carter
The Knicks trade that nets the #9 pick could land 1 of these players with Bamba being the least likely to be available. With this I would say that Wendell Carter would be the target.
In a trade for #12 or #16 I would expect the Cs to target Zhaire Smith (potential is off the charts), J Porter (great Al understudy), R Williams (elite athlete to mold into Capella like big) or Mitchell Robinson (elite potential but a lot of question marks)
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1. Bamba is probably not ready to contribute at a high level in nba
2. Centers like him are dying breed
3. We have a higher chance of signing Nerlens Noel who could contribute right away and do the same skills as bamba
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I have been thinking about the potential of trading Rozier and its affects on the off-season a lot.
My short answer would be No I do not think Cs can trade up for Bamba and if they can it will cost them most of their future draft capital.
My long answer
Bottom line is that I think the Cs move Rozier to A. Cash out max trade value B. move some $$ off the books to help stay under the Luxury tax.
When establishing trade the best precedent to look at is the 2011 George Hill for #12 (Kawhi Leonard) trade
At the time Hill was coming off of a season at saw him average 11pts 2.5rb 2.5 ast as Tony Parker's Backup.
In the 2011 draft Kawhi Leonard was ranked by Chad Ford as a tier 3 prospect. Fords Tier 3 was reserved for players who Fords league insiders viewed as solid high end starters.
When projecting this previous trade onto Roziers value the first thing that stands out to me is that Rozier is the more productive player. It also should be noted that both Hill and Rozier had similar contracts with both players having 1 year left on deals.
With out the benefit of Fords tiers for this draft I can only speculate who he would have in his tier 3. My guess is that Doncic, Ayton, Jackson, Bagely, Porter and Bamba would all be in Tier 1 or 2. With Bamba being on the edge of 2/3.
The last and most important aspect to look at is demand. My quick guess is that the Suns, Hawks, Magic, Cavs (gross), Knicks, 76ers (yuck), and Clippers are all lottery teams who may have interest in Rozier.
I think the Suns and Hawks can be eliminated with their top picks.
The Magic are an interesting possibility if the Cs are willing to include multiple future 1st but I find that unlikely.
I just cant see DA sending Terry to the Cavs and i also think they will be hoping for a home run with that pick if Lebron leaves.
The Knicks is where I think things get interesting. Knicks fans will likely balk at the idea but a Rozier + #27 + clippers pick for #9 could make sense. Rozier and Nikitina would form a versatile athletic young back-court and Roziers energy would be create for the team culture.
The 76ers is a weird trade given the recent series and one that I just cant see happening despite the fit.
The clippers with 12 and 13 seem to make a lot of sense if the Cs value a player in this range. This might be the point in the trade speculation where the Cs ask for additional value maybe in the form of a future 2nd.
The other trade out there could be with the Suns at #16. This is later then I would hope for but maybe the inclusion of an unprotected future 2nd or the #31 and Tyler Ulis makes this a possibility. Ulis would serve as a really cheap backup who may actually thrice on Cs.
So barring any bigger 3 team deals where a team like the Hornets moves their point guard this leaves us with some what logical trades for picks #9, #12, or #16
From the mocks ive seen the assumptions are that Doncic, Ayton, Bagely, Jackson and M Porter (if healthy) are all gone in the top 5 and definitely in the top 8.
The consensuses next 5 appears to be
Bamba
Young
Bridges
Bridges
Carter
The Knicks trade that nets the #9 pick could land 1 of these players with Bamba being the least likely to be available. With this I would say that Wendell Carter would be the target.
In a trade for #12 or #16 I would expect the Cs to target Zhaire Smith (potential is off the charts), J Porter (great Al understudy), R Williams (elite athlete to mold into Capella like big) or Mitchell Robinson (elite potential but a lot of question marks)
TP for the useful info. Do you think Mikal Bridges could play PF in our system?
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Who might have an interest in Rozier?
Magic at 5? Maybe. They liked him last year. The problem is value. They might like him, but not enough to give up the 5th pick. A Rozier-Fournier-Gordon-Isaac core is athletic, switchy, and pretty good shooters.
Bulls at 6? Maybe, but doubtful. They already have Dunn and Lavine in the backcourt. It seems more likely they would take one of the bigs available to continue to build.
Kings at 7? Maybe, but doubtful. They have Fox and Hield. Rozier is probably better than both of those guys and can play with both of them. At this point, the Kings could use a proven up-and-coming talent with competitiveness and heart.
Cavs at 8? Doubtful. Can you imagine the spectacle if the Cavs wind up with essential Rozier for Irving?
Knicks at 9? Possibly, but I doubt Bamba will still be available. Rozier in the garden would be great for him. He'd be appreciated there.
If we package some picks+ Rozier, Yabusele, and someone else, do you think Magic would bite?
I get the idea of selling high on Rozier. I'd rather keep him, but he might appreciate the opportunity to start. I probably wouldn't give up Yabusele (like him too much), but I might give up the Cs 2018 1st and the Memphis pick.
On their side, it depends on how much they like Rozier. They liked him enough to offer Ibaka, whom they got for Sabonis, Illyasova, and Oladipo -- although that trade was lopsided, that gives an idea that they value him pretty highly. If they thought that in an uptempo spread offense with a high usage rate, Rozier could be a 20 and 5 guy, then he'd be worth the 5th pick.
There's another aspect also -- culture shifts. Rozier's energy, competitiveness, and light-heartedness could be a catalyst to change an organizations culture, especially if they get the right coach (Laranaga?).
They might look at their options at 5 and be unimpressed. Porter has question marks about his back, ball-handling, and quickness. Young might not be better than Rozier. Bamba is raw and might never develop without a firm system and culture in place.
They could hold on to the pick until draft night to see if one of the top 4 drops, but when that doesn't happen, they might rather have a 23 year old two-way point guard who played like an NBA starter in the playoffs and is on a team-controlled contract for the next 5-6 years.
Rozier + Yabu + #27 to the Magic for (let's say) #5
Who says no?
(probably the Magic :P, but it may be worth a try)
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I have been thinking about the potential of trading Rozier and its affects on the off-season a lot.
My short answer would be No I do not think Cs can trade up for Bamba and if they can it will cost them most of their future draft capital.
My long answer
Bottom line is that I think the Cs move Rozier to A. Cash out max trade value B. move some $$ off the books to help stay under the Luxury tax.
When establishing trade the best precedent to look at is the 2011 George Hill for #12 (Kawhi Leonard) trade
At the time Hill was coming off of a season at saw him average 11pts 2.5rb 2.5 ast as Tony Parker's Backup.
In the 2011 draft Kawhi Leonard was ranked by Chad Ford as a tier 3 prospect. Fords Tier 3 was reserved for players who Fords league insiders viewed as solid high end starters.
When projecting this previous trade onto Roziers value the first thing that stands out to me is that Rozier is the more productive player. It also should be noted that both Hill and Rozier had similar contracts with both players having 1 year left on deals.
With out the benefit of Fords tiers for this draft I can only speculate who he would have in his tier 3. My guess is that Doncic, Ayton, Jackson, Bagely, Porter and Bamba would all be in Tier 1 or 2. With Bamba being on the edge of 2/3.
The last and most important aspect to look at is demand. My quick guess is that the Suns, Hawks, Magic, Cavs (gross), Knicks, 76ers (yuck), and Clippers are all lottery teams who may have interest in Rozier.
I think the Suns and Hawks can be eliminated with their top picks.
The Magic are an interesting possibility if the Cs are willing to include multiple future 1st but I find that unlikely.
I just cant see DA sending Terry to the Cavs and i also think they will be hoping for a home run with that pick if Lebron leaves.
The Knicks is where I think things get interesting. Knicks fans will likely balk at the idea but a Rozier + #27 + clippers pick for #9 could make sense. Rozier and Nikitina would form a versatile athletic young back-court and Roziers energy would be create for the team culture.
The 76ers is a weird trade given the recent series and one that I just cant see happening despite the fit.
The clippers with 12 and 13 seem to make a lot of sense if the Cs value a player in this range. This might be the point in the trade speculation where the Cs ask for additional value maybe in the form of a future 2nd.
The other trade out there could be with the Suns at #16. This is later then I would hope for but maybe the inclusion of an unprotected future 2nd or the #31 and Tyler Ulis makes this a possibility. Ulis would serve as a really cheap backup who may actually thrice on Cs.
So barring any bigger 3 team deals where a team like the Hornets moves their point guard this leaves us with some what logical trades for picks #9, #12, or #16
From the mocks ive seen the assumptions are that Doncic, Ayton, Bagely, Jackson and M Porter (if healthy) are all gone in the top 5 and definitely in the top 8.
The consensuses next 5 appears to be
Bamba
Young
Bridges
Bridges
Carter
The Knicks trade that nets the #9 pick could land 1 of these players with Bamba being the least likely to be available. With this I would say that Wendell Carter would be the target.
In a trade for #12 or #16 I would expect the Cs to target Zhaire Smith (potential is off the charts), J Porter (great Al understudy), R Williams (elite athlete to mold into Capella like big) or Mitchell Robinson (elite potential but a lot of question marks)
TP for the useful info. Do you think Mikal Bridges could play PF in our system?
Mikal Bridges is a 190lb guard, Miles Bridges is the 230-235lb forward. Not sure if you've got them mixed up (God knows I do), but Mikal will never be a PF
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I have been thinking about the potential of trading Rozier and its affects on the off-season a lot.
My short answer would be No I do not think Cs can trade up for Bamba and if they can it will cost them most of their future draft capital.
My long answer
Bottom line is that I think the Cs move Rozier to A. Cash out max trade value B. move some $$ off the books to help stay under the Luxury tax.
When establishing trade the best precedent to look at is the 2011 George Hill for #12 (Kawhi Leonard) trade
At the time Hill was coming off of a season at saw him average 11pts 2.5rb 2.5 ast as Tony Parker's Backup.
In the 2011 draft Kawhi Leonard was ranked by Chad Ford as a tier 3 prospect. Fords Tier 3 was reserved for players who Fords league insiders viewed as solid high end starters.
When projecting this previous trade onto Roziers value the first thing that stands out to me is that Rozier is the more productive player. It also should be noted that both Hill and Rozier had similar contracts with both players having 1 year left on deals.
With out the benefit of Fords tiers for this draft I can only speculate who he would have in his tier 3. My guess is that Doncic, Ayton, Jackson, Bagely, Porter and Bamba would all be in Tier 1 or 2. With Bamba being on the edge of 2/3.
The last and most important aspect to look at is demand. My quick guess is that the Suns, Hawks, Magic, Cavs (gross), Knicks, 76ers (yuck), and Clippers are all lottery teams who may have interest in Rozier.
I think the Suns and Hawks can be eliminated with their top picks.
The Magic are an interesting possibility if the Cs are willing to include multiple future 1st but I find that unlikely.
I just cant see DA sending Terry to the Cavs and i also think they will be hoping for a home run with that pick if Lebron leaves.
The Knicks is where I think things get interesting. Knicks fans will likely balk at the idea but a Rozier + #27 + clippers pick for #9 could make sense. Rozier and Nikitina would form a versatile athletic young back-court and Roziers energy would be create for the team culture.
The 76ers is a weird trade given the recent series and one that I just cant see happening despite the fit.
The clippers with 12 and 13 seem to make a lot of sense if the Cs value a player in this range. This might be the point in the trade speculation where the Cs ask for additional value maybe in the form of a future 2nd.
The other trade out there could be with the Suns at #16. This is later then I would hope for but maybe the inclusion of an unprotected future 2nd or the #31 and Tyler Ulis makes this a possibility. Ulis would serve as a really cheap backup who may actually thrice on Cs.
So barring any bigger 3 team deals where a team like the Hornets moves their point guard this leaves us with some what logical trades for picks #9, #12, or #16
From the mocks ive seen the assumptions are that Doncic, Ayton, Bagely, Jackson and M Porter (if healthy) are all gone in the top 5 and definitely in the top 8.
The consensuses next 5 appears to be
Bamba
Young
Bridges
Bridges
Carter
The Knicks trade that nets the #9 pick could land 1 of these players with Bamba being the least likely to be available. With this I would say that Wendell Carter would be the target.
In a trade for #12 or #16 I would expect the Cs to target Zhaire Smith (potential is off the charts), J Porter (great Al understudy), R Williams (elite athlete to mold into Capella like big) or Mitchell Robinson (elite potential but a lot of question marks)
TP for the useful info. Do you think Mikal Bridges could play PF in our system?
Mikal has the length (reportedly 7'2 wingspan ) but not the strength to play up a position. Miles Bridges has the strength but lacks the length.
If you look at the NBA in 4 positions Guard, Wing (2/3), Swing (3/4) and Big. I would say Mikal is firmly a wing similar to Otto Porter of Tatum (this year). The hope with Tatum is that his youth two years younger then Mikal and wide shoulders allow him to fill out into the 230s.
Miles has the same height and length measurable as Jae Crowder while he might be around 10lbs lighter then Jae he is fare more explosive. This strength and explosiveness should allow him to switch onto bigger players without getting run over.
Later in the first Round Keita Bates-Diop is another player who is thin but still at least 25lbs heavier then Mikal with a reported 7'3 wingspan who could play the swing man position for the Cs.
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This thread is full of a fallacies
Ainge is not going to trade Rozier for a guy who will need to hit the weight room for a couple of years and who can't spread the floor. So kiss Bamba and Noel goodbye, they are not our type of guys and do not fit our system. There is also the lack of toughness from both of them. We have a tough team now and are looking for certain types of players. I think this off season this team has found it's identity.
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I have been thinking about the potential of trading Rozier and its affects on the off-season a lot.
My short answer would be No I do not think Cs can trade up for Bamba and if they can it will cost them most of their future draft capital.
My long answer
Bottom line is that I think the Cs move Rozier to A. Cash out max trade value B. move some $$ off the books to help stay under the Luxury tax.
When establishing trade the best precedent to look at is the 2011 George Hill for #12 (Kawhi Leonard) trade
At the time Hill was coming off of a season at saw him average 11pts 2.5rb 2.5 ast as Tony Parker's Backup.
In the 2011 draft Kawhi Leonard was ranked by Chad Ford as a tier 3 prospect. Fords Tier 3 was reserved for players who Fords league insiders viewed as solid high end starters.
When projecting this previous trade onto Roziers value the first thing that stands out to me is that Rozier is the more productive player. It also should be noted that both Hill and Rozier had similar contracts with both players having 1 year left on deals.
With out the benefit of Fords tiers for this draft I can only speculate who he would have in his tier 3. My guess is that Doncic, Ayton, Jackson, Bagely, Porter and Bamba would all be in Tier 1 or 2. With Bamba being on the edge of 2/3.
The last and most important aspect to look at is demand. My quick guess is that the Suns, Hawks, Magic, Cavs (gross), Knicks, 76ers (yuck), and Clippers are all lottery teams who may have interest in Rozier.
I think the Suns and Hawks can be eliminated with their top picks.
The Magic are an interesting possibility if the Cs are willing to include multiple future 1st but I find that unlikely.
I just cant see DA sending Terry to the Cavs and i also think they will be hoping for a home run with that pick if Lebron leaves.
The Knicks is where I think things get interesting. Knicks fans will likely balk at the idea but a Rozier + #27 + clippers pick for #9 could make sense. Rozier and Nikitina would form a versatile athletic young back-court and Roziers energy would be create for the team culture.
The 76ers is a weird trade given the recent series and one that I just cant see happening despite the fit.
The clippers with 12 and 13 seem to make a lot of sense if the Cs value a player in this range. This might be the point in the trade speculation where the Cs ask for additional value maybe in the form of a future 2nd.
The other trade out there could be with the Suns at #16. This is later then I would hope for but maybe the inclusion of an unprotected future 2nd or the #31 and Tyler Ulis makes this a possibility. Ulis would serve as a really cheap backup who may actually thrice on Cs.
So barring any bigger 3 team deals where a team like the Hornets moves their point guard this leaves us with some what logical trades for picks #9, #12, or #16
From the mocks ive seen the assumptions are that Doncic, Ayton, Bagely, Jackson and M Porter (if healthy) are all gone in the top 5 and definitely in the top 8.
The consensuses next 5 appears to be
Bamba
Young
Bridges
Bridges
Carter
The Knicks trade that nets the #9 pick could land 1 of these players with Bamba being the least likely to be available. With this I would say that Wendell Carter would be the target.
In a trade for #12 or #16 I would expect the Cs to target Zhaire Smith (potential is off the charts), J Porter (great Al understudy), R Williams (elite athlete to mold into Capella like big) or Mitchell Robinson (elite potential but a lot of question marks)
TP for the useful info. Do you think Mikal Bridges could play PF in our system?
Mikal Bridges is a 190lb guard, Miles Bridges is the 230-235lb forward. Not sure if you've got them mixed up (God knows I do), but Mikal will never be a PF
190? No he's not.. he's been a reported 207 pounds by draft express and Villanova website.
I have been thinking about the potential of trading Rozier and its affects on the off-season a lot.
My short answer would be No I do not think Cs can trade up for Bamba and if they can it will cost them most of their future draft capital.
My long answer
Bottom line is that I think the Cs move Rozier to A. Cash out max trade value B. move some $$ off the books to help stay under the Luxury tax.
When establishing trade the best precedent to look at is the 2011 George Hill for #12 (Kawhi Leonard) trade
At the time Hill was coming off of a season at saw him average 11pts 2.5rb 2.5 ast as Tony Parker's Backup.
In the 2011 draft Kawhi Leonard was ranked by Chad Ford as a tier 3 prospect. Fords Tier 3 was reserved for players who Fords league insiders viewed as solid high end starters.
When projecting this previous trade onto Roziers value the first thing that stands out to me is that Rozier is the more productive player. It also should be noted that both Hill and Rozier had similar contracts with both players having 1 year left on deals.
With out the benefit of Fords tiers for this draft I can only speculate who he would have in his tier 3. My guess is that Doncic, Ayton, Jackson, Bagely, Porter and Bamba would all be in Tier 1 or 2. With Bamba being on the edge of 2/3.
The last and most important aspect to look at is demand. My quick guess is that the Suns, Hawks, Magic, Cavs (gross), Knicks, 76ers (yuck), and Clippers are all lottery teams who may have interest in Rozier.
I think the Suns and Hawks can be eliminated with their top picks.
The Magic are an interesting possibility if the Cs are willing to include multiple future 1st but I find that unlikely.
I just cant see DA sending Terry to the Cavs and i also think they will be hoping for a home run with that pick if Lebron leaves.
The Knicks is where I think things get interesting. Knicks fans will likely balk at the idea but a Rozier + #27 + clippers pick for #9 could make sense. Rozier and Nikitina would form a versatile athletic young back-court and Roziers energy would be create for the team culture.
The 76ers is a weird trade given the recent series and one that I just cant see happening despite the fit.
The clippers with 12 and 13 seem to make a lot of sense if the Cs value a player in this range. This might be the point in the trade speculation where the Cs ask for additional value maybe in the form of a future 2nd.
The other trade out there could be with the Suns at #16. This is later then I would hope for but maybe the inclusion of an unprotected future 2nd or the #31 and Tyler Ulis makes this a possibility. Ulis would serve as a really cheap backup who may actually thrice on Cs.
So barring any bigger 3 team deals where a team like the Hornets moves their point guard this leaves us with some what logical trades for picks #9, #12, or #16
From the mocks ive seen the assumptions are that Doncic, Ayton, Bagely, Jackson and M Porter (if healthy) are all gone in the top 5 and definitely in the top 8.
The consensuses next 5 appears to be
Bamba
Young
Bridges
Bridges
Carter
The Knicks trade that nets the #9 pick could land 1 of these players with Bamba being the least likely to be available. With this I would say that Wendell Carter would be the target.
In a trade for #12 or #16 I would expect the Cs to target Zhaire Smith (potential is off the charts), J Porter (great Al understudy), R Williams (elite athlete to mold into Capella like big) or Mitchell Robinson (elite potential but a lot of question marks)
TP for the useful info. Do you think Mikal Bridges could play PF in our system?
Mikal has the length (reportedly 7'2 wingspan ) but not the strength to play up a position. Miles Bridges has the strength but lacks the length.
If you look at the NBA in 4 positions Guard, Wing (2/3), Swing (3/4) and Big. I would say Mikal is firmly a wing similar to Otto Porter of Tatum (this year). The hope with Tatum is that his youth two years younger then Mikal and wide shoulders allow him to fill out into the 230s.
Miles has the same height and length measurable as Jae Crowder while he might be around 10lbs lighter then Jae he is fare more explosive. This strength and explosiveness should allow him to switch onto bigger players without getting run over.
Later in the first Round Keita Bates-Diop is another player who is thin but still at least 25lbs heavier then Mikal with a reported 7'3 wingspan who could play the swing man position for the Cs.
I like Keira, but I think if Bridges adds 5 more pounds, he'll be at a weight disadvantage, but his length and high defensive IQ will allow him to switch on everything.
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This thread is full of a fallacies
Ainge is not going to trade Rozier for a guy who will need to hit the weight room for a couple of years and who can't spread the floor. So kiss Bamba and Noel goodbye, they are not our type of guys and do not fit our system. There is also the lack of toughness from both of them. We have a tough team now and are looking for certain types of players. I think this off season this team has found it's identity.
pretty much agree with this.
Noel doesn't bring enough on offense. Bambi's a bean pole who will likely need 2 years to start filling out and his offense isn't much to speak of.
I truly think the best option for next year is to run it back with Rozier, Smart and Baynes. Keep Rozier. Use the MLE on Baynes if he'll take it. Resign Smart to a reasonable deal. I don't see him commanding $15 mill per year. very likely MLE to $10 mill per year.
Kyrie, Hayward, Al, Brown, Tatum is a really strong starting 5. Add Morris, Rozier, Smart and Baynes as the primary guys off the bench and that's a contender. A year of development with Semi and Yabu will help. Bird might be good enough to bring in as an end of bench guy as well.
Nader, Monroe and possibly Allen are moving on. C's should be able to get a vet min player or 2 to add for more depth. C's don't really need to throw players and picks at a prospect who's a known project
Decide what to do with Rozier the following offseason. Let's take a run at the championship with him having another year to develop consistency and provide a potent 1-2 punch with Smart off the bench for the backcourt.
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Maybe if Rozier has another good series a package can be made to get a high pick. Say Rozier, Morris, Yab and pick 27. But Rozier has to do well.
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If Bamba is Rudy Gobert, this makes perfect sense, but I think he's measurably less. If anything I think Gobert's success might be inflating his stock a little.
Depending on the price, I'd take him as a project, but I'd feel a lot better about him if he slipped to 10+ and we could pay less.
Now this is wildly unlikely, but the real prize would be pulling the same coup we just did (getting the best player in the draft included in a trade). For example:
Rozier + BOS18 + SAC19 (or #2/#3 this year) + MEM19 for #1 (Ayton)
Any sort of godfather offer that gets us Ayton, if you believe he's close to Embiid talent, would be a coup de grace on building a contender. Brown - Tatum - Ayton would be an awesome 3 year run in the draft.
starters: Irving/ Hayward/ Tatum/ Horford/ Ayton
bench: Smart, Brown, Morris, Theis, Baynes
vets: Horford, Hayward, Irving
youngins: Tatum, Brown, Ayton
role players: Smart, Morris, Theis, Baynes
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This thread is full of a fallacies
Ainge is not going to trade Rozier for a guy who will need to hit the weight room for a couple of years and who can't spread the floor. So kiss Bamba and Noel goodbye, they are not our type of guys and do not fit our system. There is also the lack of toughness from both of them. We have a tough team now and are looking for certain types of players. I think this off season this team has found it's identity.
On Bamba...
Tatum was also considered a player that was skinny and that didn't deter Ainge from taking him. In addition, I'm not sure why you think Bamba can't spread the floor. He shot 27.5% from 3, which isn't bad for a still developing big, and his 68.1% from the FT line also shows that his shooting touch is there.
To be honest, I'm not sure if getting Bamba is attainable, but dismissing it because you think Ainge won't move Rozier for him is really shortsighted and not thinking about Rozier's contract next summer.
Here is a recent video of Bamba shooting 3's. Nice compact stroke and great follow through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EOrdk_H2-s
Here are the Ainge's and Zarren watching Bamba...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C876vjsU0AAYyU4.jpg)
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This thread is full of a fallacies
Ainge is not going to trade Rozier for a guy who will need to hit the weight room for a couple of years and who can't spread the floor. So kiss Bamba and Noel goodbye, they are not our type of guys and do not fit our system. There is also the lack of toughness from both of them. We have a tough team now and are looking for certain types of players. I think this off season this team has found it's identity.
pretty much agree with this.
Noel doesn't bring enough on offense. Bambi's a bean pole who will likely need 2 years to start filling out and his offense isn't much to speak of.
I truly think the best option for next year is to run it back with Rozier, Smart and Baynes. Keep Rozier. Use the MLE on Baynes if he'll take it. Resign Smart to a reasonable deal. I don't see him commanding $15 mill per year. very likely MLE to $10 mill per year.
Kyrie, Hayward, Al, Brown, Tatum is a really strong starting 5. Add Morris, Rozier, Smart and Baynes as the primary guys off the bench and that's a contender. A year of development with Semi and Yabu will help. Bird might be good enough to bring in as an end of bench guy as well.
Nader, Monroe and possibly Allen are moving on. C's should be able to get a vet min player or 2 to add for more depth. C's don't really need to throw players and picks at a prospect who's a known project
Decide what to do with Rozier the following offseason. Let's take a run at the championship with him having another year to develop consistency and provide a potent 1-2 punch with Smart off the bench for the backcourt.
The issue with this plan is the Luxury tax. It has been widley reported that the Cs need to stay under the luxury line next season in order to avoid major repeater tax issues in the coming years. This will likely dictate how the Cs handle Smart, Baynes and to a lesser extent Rozier.
If the Cs do not move Rozier this off-season or at the deadline they will likely loose him for nothing like they did KO.
I would also have to disagree if Ainge was given the option of trading Bamba for Rozier he 100% takes that deal. Bamba isn't the perfect big man prospect. He needs to gain weight/strength, refine his offense, and prove that he is a capable passer. However he has elite length, solid mobility, and was a very productive college player.
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Tatum was also considered a player that was skinny and that didn't deter Ainge from taking him. In addition, I'm not sure why you think Bamba can't spread the floor. He shot 27.5% from 3, which isn't bad for a still developing big, and his 68.1% from the FT line also shows that his shooting touch is there.
Just like Sullinger? Not thanks, 27% is a guy who should be shooting them only in practice and 68% is not great from the line either. We are making a title run next year and forgive me if I would rather have the best backup PG in the league than a raw developing big man who need locked in the weight room.
Also, Tatum is great offensive talent not a kid who has limited moves. Nice try but not very convincing. If Ainge picks I fully support him but we want to win now, I bet next year.
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This thread is full of a fallacies
Ainge is not going to trade Rozier for a guy who will need to hit the weight room for a couple of years and who can't spread the floor. So kiss Bamba and Noel goodbye, they are not our type of guys and do not fit our system. There is also the lack of toughness from both of them. We have a tough team now and are looking for certain types of players. I think this off season this team has found it's identity.
On Bamba...
Tatum was also considered a player that was skinny and that didn't deter Ainge from taking him. In addition, I'm not sure why you think Bamba can't spread the floor. He shot 27.5% from 3, which isn't bad for a still developing big, and his 68.1% from the FT line also shows that his shooting touch is there.
To be honest, I'm not sure if getting Bamba is attainable, but dismissing it because you think Ainge won't move Rozier for him is really shortsighted and not thinking about Rozier's contract next summer.
Here is a recent video of Bamba shooting 3's. Nice compact stroke and great follow through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EOrdk_H2-s
Here are Ainge's and Zarren watching Bamba...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C876vjsU0AAYyU4.jpg)
Agree Bamba will likely never be a knock down shoot but if he can shoot enough to keep teams honest while hitting his FTs he can be very good.
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dupe
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I don't understand the pretense of this entire thread.
Are people nervous that Bamba is not going to be available when we are picking at #2 in June?
Mike
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Tatum was also considered a player that was skinny and that didn't deter Ainge from taking him. In addition, I'm not sure why you think Bamba can't spread the floor. He shot 27.5% from 3, which isn't bad for a still developing big, and his 68.1% from the FT line also shows that his shooting touch is there.
Just like Sullinger? Not thanks, 27% is a guy who should be shooting them only in practice and 68% is not great from the line either. We are making a title run next year and forgive me if I would rather have the best backup PG in the league than a raw developing big man who need locked in the weight room.
Also, Tatum is great offensive talent not a kid who has limited moves. Nice try but not very convincing. If Ainge picks I fully support him but we want to win now, I bet next year.
Are you seriously trying to compare Sullinger with Bamba? Bamba is a physically gifted player that has the potential to be an absolute game changer defensively. If he can stretch the floor, in addition to rim run (which he can already do), then you're talking about a Gobert type talent that can stretch the floor.
If Stevens can do what he did for Theis, Amir, and Baynes, which is basically reinvent those guys, then imagine what he can do with a blank slate like Bamba who is already hitting 3's and has solid form.
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Most mock projections don't have Bamba in the Top-5 of their mocks, but most have him going somewhere in the 6-9 range (with a few having him go at 5). I think that's fair to be honest, considering the risks involved with him as well. W/o those risks, Bamba could be in the same tier as Ayton who is projected to be a Top-2 pick this June.
I'm enjoying our current playoff run with Scary Terry, but looking ahead I think there's three options going forward:
(1) Keep Rozier for next season to make a legit run at Banner 18, and likely lose him next summer in FA (Some team offers him near-max or something which we don't match)
(2) Lose Smart in RFA, so Ainge keeps Rozier and works an extension with him (even if it's for a lot more $$$ than expected)
(3) Sell high on Rozier THIS summer
Seeing what Ainge has done previously, I honestly think either (2) or (3) is done. Ainge won't just lose Rozier for absolutely nothing if the writing is in the wall (and it seems it is, as Rozier will command a big pay day and will probably want to start understandably). I also predict Smart's market is a bit over-exaggerated and he won't command as much as people think, so Ainge re-signs him in the 9-12M a year range (still a great pay day, but not 15M+ a year).
So is there a chance Rozier + asset(s) (NOT Kings Pick) can get us into the 6-9 range to select Bamba, or is Bamba simply out of our range? I'm pretty high on Bamba, even if he is currently "raw" and isn't as polished as the others yet. Or are you all just not Bamba fans lol?
Anyways, GO C'S! Keep proving the doubters wrong!
There is no way Scary Terry (who if a Free Agent) in a year, will be able to bring you back a top 10 pick
Unless he is the MVP of the ECF
Well, I assumed Rozier would be in a package with another asset or two involved, but yeah it's probably unlikely. That said, I would be upset if we traded Rozier (a former 16th pick) and only got back like another mid-1st rounder (in 15-20 range).
In that case, yeah it's probably just best to bring back Rozier for another year and see what he commands in RFA next summer. In my utopian world, we keep Smart and Rozier long term (Smart on a cheap, reasonable deal) and form a "Big 4" of a back court (Kyrie and Brown starting, with Smart and Rozier off the bench)... but with luxury tax implications it unfortunately won't happen.
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Are you seriously trying to compare Sullinger with Bamba? Bamba is a physically gifted player that has the potential to be an absolute game changer defensively. If he can stretch the floor, in addition to rim run (which he can already do), then you're talking about a Gobert type talent that can stretch the floor.
Let me explain to you, Sullinger was a %.365 Shooter from three in college. He never mastered the pro shot. Ainge likes guys who can stay in front of his man and to him and CBS that is more important than shot blocking. This is not the NBA of the past.
As far as being a game changer defensively, he could be or he could be this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbBg1eptQg
Bagley ate him alive and he was not so game changing.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400999722
If Stevens can do what he did for Theis, Amir, and Baynes, which is basically reinvent those guys, then imagine what he can do with a blank slate like Bamba who is already hitting 3's and has solid form.
27% is not hitting to many threes, when you get right down to it. That is pretty poor, quit pretending it is good it is not. CBS can make guys better but he choose to let Moose sit. the first time a muscle guy pushes Bamba out of the way, he is coming out of the bench. He needs a lot of work on his strength base in his legs.
Here is a scouting report
Weaknesses: As obvious is as length is, it's also not hard to notice he'll need to continue to add strength to play the paint in the next level ... At the 2017 Hoop Summit, he only weighed in at 216 pounds ... Ideally, you'd like to see Bamba at least around 240 in a year or two, or possibly 250 ... I think those weights are achievable for him judging by his length, and how he's added muscle since high school ... His awareness with his back to the basket and in the paint on offense is a work in progress too ... He'll need to continue to work on his awareness of spacing and cutting players, as well as adjusting to double teams and pressure from guards ... When he's feeling it offensively, he could take over a game at the college level, but he could also be too passive when he'd get bothered ... Restraint is good from a team game perspective, but with his physical tools he should have been more aggressive at times while playing for the Longhorns ... A solid athlete, but much of his wow factor is due to length and not explosiveness or leaping ability
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/mohamed-bamba
If he was so good why didn't he average more than 12.9 PPG?
I can recall you hyping Bender in thread. I can post them if you wish.
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Orlando seems like the perfect team to make a deal with, but not sure they want to deal a chance a franchise player for Rozier.
What about a trade of Rozier and Nader for Isaac? Too much, too little? This would allow the Magic to build around Gordon and whatever big they get in this draft along with Rozier and Fournier. We would get two additional years of rookie scale contract in a versatile big in Isaac.
I would be into a Rozier for Bamba trade, but wouldn’t throw in the Sac or Mem picks. I honestly don’t want to give up Rozier at all, but our salary is about to explode and there really isn’t much choice unless we trade Irving.
I forgot about Isaac. That is intriguing proposal. Really good athlete/3 point shooter, defender.
Would be good sub for Al, and eventual replacement if he develops.
ORL may have to give up more, though, if they want Terry. Terry's production is incredible.
TP
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Are you seriously trying to compare Sullinger with Bamba? Bamba is a physically gifted player that has the potential to be an absolute game changer defensively. If he can stretch the floor, in addition to rim run (which he can already do), then you're talking about a Gobert type talent that can stretch the floor.
Let me explain to you, Sullinger was a %.365 Shooter from three in college. He never mastered the pro shot. Ainge likes guys who can stay in front of his man and to him and CBS that is more important than shot blocking. This is not the NBA of the past.
As far as being a game changer defensively, he could be or he could be this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbBg1eptQg
Bagley ate him alive and he was not so game changing.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400999722
If Stevens can do what he did for Theis, Amir, and Baynes, which is basically reinvent those guys, then imagine what he can do with a blank slate like Bamba who is already hitting 3's and has solid form.
27% is not hitting to many threes, when you get right down to it. That is pretty poor, quit pretending it is good it is not. CBS can make guys better but he choose to let Moose sit. the first time a muscle guy pushes Bamba out of the way, he is coming out of the bench. He needs a lot of work on his strength base in his legs.
Here is a scouting report
Weaknesses: As obvious is as length is, it's also not hard to notice he'll need to continue to add strength to play the paint in the next level ... At the 2017 Hoop Summit, he only weighed in at 216 pounds ... Ideally, you'd like to see Bamba at least around 240 in a year or two, or possibly 250 ... I think those weights are achievable for him judging by his length, and how he's added muscle since high school ... His awareness with his back to the basket and in the paint on offense is a work in progress too ... He'll need to continue to work on his awareness of spacing and cutting players, as well as adjusting to double teams and pressure from guards ... When he's feeling it offensively, he could take over a game at the college level, but he could also be too passive when he'd get bothered ... Restraint is good from a team game perspective, but with his physical tools he should have been more aggressive at times while playing for the Longhorns ... A solid athlete, but much of his wow factor is due to length and not explosiveness or leaping ability
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/mohamed-bamba
If he was so good why didn't he average more than 12.9 PPG?
I can recall you hyping Bender in thread. I can post them if you wish.
I think you're really missing the point. You seem to be viewing this as Bamba vs Rozier without taking into consideration contractual obligations. That said, it's pretty bizarre that you don't think Ainge would trade Rozier for a likely top 7 pick, which will be cost controlled for several seasons.
Bamba could be a total bust, there is no denying that, but he also has an extremely high ceiling. In addition, you keep moving goalposts with your argument. You initially grouped Bamba with Noel as players that couldn't spread the floor. While 27% is not exactly stellar, it shows at least respectability where a defender will have to at least be cognizant of him shooting a 3. Which, yes, subsequently creates spacing. I think Okynyk shot 30% from 3 as a RS college junior, so 27% for a true freshman isn't really all that bad.
As for Bender, yeah, I think he still has potential, which was always the crux of my argument. It's not about short term with him, just like Bamba, it's about longterm. Not unlike a player like Rozier who while still in the midst of his 3rd season was getting pummeled for his play on this very board.
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I think a lot of people are undervaluing Bambas skill-set, as raw as it may seem. I would say simply that this guy still has physical growth left that will naturally polish and unlock his abilities.
With a mentor like Horford and Stevens as a coach, I could see him being our version of Clint Cappella. The baskets won't come nearly as easy at first, but he knows his role as player.
If a team is offering a #6-9 pick for T-Roz with Bamba still on the board, I think Ainge will absolutely consider it, from the cost-controlled contract/upside alone. Bamba can easily put on another 15-20 lbs and he will be an absolute monster.
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This thread is full of a fallacies
Ainge is not going to trade Rozier for a guy who will need to hit the weight room for a couple of years and who can't spread the floor. So kiss Bamba and Noel goodbye, they are not our type of guys and do not fit our system. There is also the lack of toughness from both of them. We have a tough team now and are looking for certain types of players. I think this off season this team has found it's identity.
On Bamba...
Tatum was also considered a player that was skinny and that didn't deter Ainge from taking him. In addition, I'm not sure why you think Bamba can't spread the floor. He shot 27.5% from 3, which isn't bad for a still developing big, and his 68.1% from the FT line also shows that his shooting touch is there.
To be honest, I'm not sure if getting Bamba is attainable, but dismissing it because you think Ainge won't move Rozier for him is really shortsighted and not thinking about Rozier's contract next summer.
Here is a recent video of Bamba shooting 3's. Nice compact stroke and great follow through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EOrdk_H2-s
Here are Ainge's and Zarren watching Bamba...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C876vjsU0AAYyU4.jpg)
Agree Bamba will likely never be a knock down shoot but if he can shoot enough to keep teams honest while hitting his FTs he can be very good.
That wing span is dope.
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1. I think Mitchell Robinson is better athlete than Bamba. His stock is artificially low because he skipped out on Western Kentucky. To me that creates an opportunity, where we don't have to give up as much in assets to draft him (projected to go 15 or later).
2. Rather than draft, need to consider existing players with size whom the Celtics could trade Rozier for. Someone brought up Jonathan Isaac (ORL). Someone else brought up Bender (PHX). By the way, Bender is only 20 years old!! Other possibilities:
3. If Bamba slides in draft, reconsider him.
4. If we can sign Noel, trade Rozier for future pick.
5. Keep Rozier.
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1. I think Mitchell Robinson is better athlete than Bamba. His stock is artificially low because he skipped out on Western Kentucky. To me that creates an opportunity, where we don't have to give up as much in assets to draft him (projected to go 15 or later).
2. Rather than draft, need to consider existing players with size whom the Celtics could trade Rozier for. Someone brought up Jonathan Isaac (ORL). Someone else brought up Bender (PHX). By the way, Bender is only 20 years old!! Other possibilities:
3. If Bamba slides in draft, reconsider him.
4. If we can sign Noel, trade Rozier for future pick.
5. Keep Rozier.
I think Robinson and J Porter are two possible targets in a Rozier trade.
Existing players are tough to trade for. Teams ussually are attached to their players. With that being said Bender or Chriss seem like players who could be moved for Rozier. I had mentioned that in a previous post.
I dont think Noel is a good option fit on this team. If the Cs traded up for Bamba they could still bring in a vet big or bring back Baynes (if he will sign for cheap enough) this will give Bamba time to deveop and get stronger. Signing Noel means that he is fighting Theis for rotational minutes and neither player gives the big body needed to defend Embiid.
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I realize people don't like the idea of trading Rozier, but what is his role next year assuming the team is healthy? Come the playoffs, Kyrie will play 40 minutes a game. So will Brown who will be the starting shooting guard. Smart, assuming we re-sign him, will play backup at both guard spots. Rozier's offense has been great, but it won't be as necessary with a healthy Kyrie and Gordon and an improved Tatum and Brown.
The 2019 draft is full of guards and wings, but no bigs that are top prospects that I'm aware of. This draft is full of bigs at the top of the draft. Ayton, Bagley, and Jackson will likely all go in the top four or five picks. I doubt we could trade up that high. Carter and Bamba may each slip a bit.
Carter is the guy I'd like. He reminds me a lot of Horford. They both have a low post game and their shooting range stretch out to the three point line. Carter shot 41% from three and 74% from the free throw line. He also grabbed 9.1 boards a game and bocked 2.1 shots. He's also a good passer averaging 2 assists as a center. He's a little under sized as a center, but he's about the same size a Horford and he already has a decent physique.
I'd trade Rozier and the 2019 Sac pick to get him. I'd even throw in the Clippers pick. I might do the same for Bamba, but I haven't seen him play as much and he seems to be more of a project.
I'm not sure which team would be a viable trade partner. One possible way to work out trade would be to invole the Clippers. They have the 12th and 13th pick. They might prefer to use just one of those and take the Sac pick. Then trade the Clippers pick to a a team selecting several picks or so earlier along with Rozier and possibly another pick.
Bottom line, I'd really like to grab one of this draft's bigs and would be willing to sacrifice Rozier and the Sac pick to do so.
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On one of the ringer NBA show podcast Kevin O Connor speculate that Rozier might be worth around what George Hill or Jeff Teague were when they were traded in a 3 team deal involving the 12th pick. So id day Rozier alone is probably worth around 10-12. Package him with 27 and you can get a little higher. Just for tax purposes he make a little less than what the 9 pick will, so Rozier and 27 maybe gets you to like 7-9 and is mostly money nuetral. Thats about where we could get. If someone like Carter falls there I would bite.
Seeing how critical Al was to these playoffs I feel it would be prudent to start looking for a guy who could take his place long term.
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right,
how about a happy meal
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Why do we need to trade Rozier? The Celtics will have the 2 pick in this draft thanks to Lakers😁
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Bottom line, I'd really like to grab one of this draft's bigs and would be willing to sacrifice Rozier and the Sac pick to do so.
That's where I'm at too. Obviously losing Rozier and the pick hurts, but you have to give up something to get something. However, if we're also giving the Kings pick then I think Jaren Jackson, who is a much safer pick, should be the target if possible.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
Yeah unless Jaylen or Tatum is in the deal, there's NO WAY we can trade for a Top-4 pick in this draft I believe. I still think Rozier + an asset or two *could* get us into the 5-9 range, although it honestly depends on how teams like Orlando, New York, etc. feel about Rozier. I don't think it's wise to give up Rozier + Kings Pick though for a pick in that range. If Rozier + Kings Pick could get us Top-3, then yes, BUT no team is taking that (as you mention).
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
I just don't know why we would give up the SAC pick AND Rozier for like the 7th or 8th pick when the SAC pick alone is slated to be in the top 5 next year. We shouldn't be throwing that pick around like it's nothing when we have the MEM pick (also a good asset), the LAC pick, and all of our own picks for trade fodder.
I also think we need to make sure that we receive either a draft pick or a player who was drafted in 2017 if we are trading Rozier. One extra year for a player like Chriss doesn't cut it - Rozier more than makes up the difference there. Since it is so hard to get teams to part with high draft picks, it is why I brought up a player like Isaac from Orlando who could be 'gettable' and likely won't cost what the #6 in this draft would.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
I just don't know why we would give up the SAC pick AND Rozier for like the 7th or 8th pick when the SAC pick alone is slated to be in the top 5 next year. We shouldn't be throwing that pick around like it's nothing when we have the MEM pick (also a good asset), the LAC pick, and all of our own picks for trade fodder.
I also think we need to make sure that we receive either a draft pick or a player who was drafted in 2017 if we are trading Rozier. One extra year for a player like Chriss doesn't cut it - Rozier more than makes up the difference there. Since it is so hard to get teams to part with high draft picks, it is why I brought up a player like Isaac from Orlando who could be 'gettable' and likely won't cost what the #6 in this draft would.
Is the Sac pick really slated to be in the top 5 next year? They're picking 7th this season. Two more wins and they could have been picking 9th. Plus, they have no reason to tank next year. I do think there's a good chance they could be in the top 5 next year, but that's no guarantee and if someone trades for it, they take on all the risk. It is top 1 protected and could end up being two second round picks.
I like the idea of such a trade because we could use a young big and there doesn't seem to be much in that department next draft. Maybe it's an overpay, but we have more future picks than we need and consolidating to get the right player might be worth it. And I don't think Rozier and the Clippers or Memphis pick would be enough to move up to around the 7th or 8th pick. I hope I'm wrong.
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Doing a 1 year with Nerlens sounds fantastic. Love it.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
I don't know. My inclination is no. But no idea what Danny thinks of those bigs...he may even like Doncic ahead of all of them.....and if he likes Doncic that much then yes, it's worth the trade.
All depends on Danny's view of the guys 2-4 at top of next year's draft verses this year's. Not really any bigs (yet) but if Nassir Little is going to be the next K. Leonard then that's worth keeping. Also like the look of Sekou Doumbaya (spelling?), assuming RJ Barrett is #1 and unattainable.
Another star wing would allow the eventual trade (2 years from now?) of a current wing, probably either Hawyard or Brown if needing to save money for other guys, manage the cap, etc.
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Doing a 1 year with Nerlens sounds fantastic. Love it.
He can't shoot which means he would never play.
Let me explain the system for you. We have a lot of guys who can defend multiple positions, both Noel and Bamba could theoretically do that. But where they would fall up short is shooting and spreading the floor and they would stagnate the offense. We just beat two teams in a row of mobile seven footers who can block shots but not shoot outside. We were undermanned without our two best players. Think about that.
I think you're really missing the point. You seem to be viewing this as Bamba vs Rozier without taking into consideration contractual obligations. That said, it's pretty bizarre that you don't think Ainge would trade Rozier for a likely top 7 pick, which will be cost controlled for several seasons.
And I think that you do not understand that we are going into a title run mode, win now. I get Bamba is a nice thing for the long run. But he is poor fit for our system at present. Rozier is proven and in the playoffs to boot. If Ainge trades him we need a back up PG of whom he is the best in the NBA as of now.
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You keep Rozier unless some crazy trade offer falls into your lap. Having depth is never a bad thing, especially with the uncertain status of Irving's knee.
C's could do some damage next year and be legit title contenders if this squad is healthy.
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I think it first really depends on what happens with Smart.
If he does get vastly overpaid elsewhere and leaves... maybe DA works on keeping Rozier long term instead (even if it's for a lot, since we have his Bird Rights).
I just don't think Ainge is losing BOTH Rozier and Smart. That actually creates a hole in the guard position behind Kyrie (injury risk) and Jaylen. He's keeping one for sure (maybe two depending on Wyc and co.)
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Disagree for a few reasons.
We have no data on Porter other than high-school, where there were fair concerns he played against weak opposition. He hasn't come up against any notable opposition yet. There are also significant injury concerns.
Compare this to injury free Bamba, with his elite rim protection, good rebounding and developing shooting touch I couldn't justify taking Porter.
Plus, I can't see Porter pushing Hayward out of the starting lineup. Hayward next to JT is better than JT next to Porter
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Disagree for a few reasons.
We have no data on Porter other than high-school, where there were fair concerns he played against weak opposition. He hasn't come up against any notable opposition yet. There are also significant injury concerns.
Compare this to injury free Bamba, with his elite rim protection, good rebounding and developing shooting touch I couldn't justify taking Porter.
Plus, I can't see Porter pushing Hayward out of the starting lineup. Hayward next to JT is better than JT next to Porter
Shooting touch is not something to bring up when lobbying for Bamba over Porter.
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Lol aren't you forgetting somebody?
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Just commenting to get on record that I am very high on Mo Bamba. He knows his weaknesses, and he's already working on them (with Drew Hanlen, the guy who helped Tatum clean up his jumper last offseason). He's ridiculously long, and, from what I've seen, he's also very agile and switchable. I think he could be a more fluid Gobert with a three point shot.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
I just don't know why we would give up the SAC pick AND Rozier for like the 7th or 8th pick when the SAC pick alone is slated to be in the top 5 next year. We shouldn't be throwing that pick around like it's nothing when we have the MEM pick (also a good asset), the LAC pick, and all of our own picks for trade fodder.
I also think we need to make sure that we receive either a draft pick or a player who was drafted in 2017 if we are trading Rozier. One extra year for a player like Chriss doesn't cut it - Rozier more than makes up the difference there. Since it is so hard to get teams to part with high draft picks, it is why I brought up a player like Isaac from Orlando who could be 'gettable' and likely won't cost what the #6 in this draft would.
The reason for giving up Rozier and the Sac pick is that the C's have become so deep that there is only one remaining path for improving the team core via the draft, and that is to get a top big man onto the roster and start developing them.
This is an unusually good draft for big men, and there is no one on the horizon for next year. A top draft choice next year just doesn't help much if it can only bring a talented wing scorer or point guard. Where would they fit? We really only need big men, and even then, only for the longer term. It's the perfect time to go get an apprentice for Horford.
Bamba might evolve into a complete player some day, but right now he has no NBA ready offensive skills. Carter has the kind of all-around skills that would fit the C's offense, and Jackson at least looks like a very solid shooter, and seems to be just as good a rim protector as Bamba. I think we could get one of those two guys with Rozier, the Sac pick and maybe a little filler.
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Lol aren't you forgetting somebody?
Nader?
:laugh:
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Lol aren't you forgetting somebody?
Yeah, people are forgetting we are getting back a SF, and a darn good one next season. It's why the Leonard trade doesn't make sense unless some one is willing to give up Brown.
I think we need to go for a young Big to learn under Horford the next two seasons and potentially take over when Horfods contract is done. Tatum has enough length to play PF and will add probably 15 to 20 lbs this summer.
If we get lucky and land the 2nd pick, I'd toss TR and any picks at the 1 seed if they take Ayton. But would be fine with snagging Bagley or Carter. I think if we can make a move to snag one of those three with the core we have, and having Irving/Hayward/Horfod as our current big 3, with Brown/Tatum/AytonorBagely as the second coming, and hopefully keep Smart in that mix. We would be scary good for the next 8+ years.
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Lol aren't you forgetting somebody?
I didn't put in the bench
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Who might have an interest in Rozier?
Magic at 5? Maybe. They liked him last year. The problem is value. They might like him, but not enough to give up the 5th pick. A Rozier-Fournier-Gordon-Isaac core is athletic, switchy, and pretty good shooters.
Bulls at 6? Maybe, but doubtful. They already have Dunn and Lavine in the backcourt. It seems more likely they would take one of the bigs available to continue to build.
Kings at 7? Maybe, but doubtful. They have Fox and Hield. Rozier is probably better than both of those guys and can play with both of them. At this point, the Kings could use a proven up-and-coming talent with competitiveness and heart.
Cavs at 8? Doubtful. Can you imagine the spectacle if the Cavs wind up with essential Rozier for Irving?
Knicks at 9? Possibly, but I doubt Bamba will still be available. Rozier in the garden would be great for him. He'd be appreciated there.
If Bamba was available at 8, I think I would do Terry plus the Sacramento pick to Cleveland for Bamba, and I think Cleveland would strongly consider that offer, as I expect them to be shopping that pick for an upgrade right now. I think that's a win-win for both sides.
For Cleveland, I think they'll likely be shopping that pick for a star to pair with Lebron to convince him to stay in Cleveland, which seems to be more realistic now than prior to the playoffs; however, I don't think they get any current star or budding star with the number eight pick. But an offer of Rozier and the Sacramento pick would still be a good get for them, as Rozier is young enough to be a core piece moving forward (with or without Lebron) while also able to help them out next year. He's also from the Cleveland area, so he's likely to stay there long-term. A lineup of Rozier, Hill, Lebron, Love, and TT moving forward is really nice for them, and they'd still get to keep a higher-potential pick for next year's draft, though it doesn't seem to be nearly as deep or talented.
For Boston, someone like Bamba would be the absolute perfect fit in our young core moving forward, as we lack a young, defensive-minded big that can be plugged in alongside Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, and Tatum eventually. He would also have an excellent mentor readily available in Horford, and we'd have the luxury right now of bringing him along slowly off the bench and allowing him to develop into what we need. It also probably means keeping Smart long-term, which I think is crucial to our continued success. And while it would mean losing the Sacramento pick, that draft looks really weak as it is right now, and there is a substantial lack of bigs to choose from in that draft, which is what we really need. I'd rather pay for Bamba now than risk taking something lesser in a lesser position of need next year.
If Bamba falls to 9 I could also see a deal going down centering around Rozier and one of our lesser picks to NY.
Gonna go out on a limb and say regardless of what happens w/ LeBron this offseason Cleveland will have 0 interest in picking up any of Ainge's phone calls for a while.
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Disagree for a few reasons.
We have no data on Porter other than high-school, where there were fair concerns he played against weak opposition. He hasn't come up against any notable opposition yet. There are also significant injury concerns.
Compare this to injury free Bamba, with his elite rim protection, good rebounding and developing shooting touch I couldn't justify taking Porter.
Plus, I can't see Porter pushing Hayward out of the starting lineup. Hayward next to JT is better than JT next to Porter
Shooting touch is not something to bring up when lobbying for Bamba over Porter.
Right, because I definitely said Bamba was a better shooter than Porter, or anything like that.
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I’d trade Rosier for a top-5 pick.
Anything less than that (or part of a blockbuster), I’d rather run this back and see what we do.
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just say no to Noel.
Yes to Wendell Carter or Bamba...
No to giving up Sac pick in the deal.
Would you include the Sac pick for Jackson, Bagley, or Ayton?
Personally, I don't think the Sac pick and Rozier would be enough for any of those three.
I just don't know why we would give up the SAC pick AND Rozier for like the 7th or 8th pick when the SAC pick alone is slated to be in the top 5 next year. We shouldn't be throwing that pick around like it's nothing when we have the MEM pick (also a good asset), the LAC pick, and all of our own picks for trade fodder.
I also think we need to make sure that we receive either a draft pick or a player who was drafted in 2017 if we are trading Rozier. One extra year for a player like Chriss doesn't cut it - Rozier more than makes up the difference there. Since it is so hard to get teams to part with high draft picks, it is why I brought up a player like Isaac from Orlando who could be 'gettable' and likely won't cost what the #6 in this draft would.
The reason for giving up Rozier and the Sac pick is that the C's have become so deep that there is only one remaining path for improving the team core via the draft, and that is to get a top big man onto the roster and start developing them.
This is an unusually good draft for big men, and there is no one on the horizon for next year. A top draft choice next year just doesn't help much if it can only bring a talented wing scorer or point guard. Where would they fit? We really only need big men, and even then, only for the longer term. It's the perfect time to go get an apprentice for Horford.
Bamba might evolve into a complete player some day, but right now he has no NBA ready offensive skills. Carter has the kind of all-around skills that would fit the C's offense, and Jackson at least looks like a very solid shooter, and seems to be just as good a rim protector as Bamba. I think we could get one of those two guys with Rozier, the Sac pick and maybe a little filler.
Bamba is not that great. He may not even be as good as Thon Maker. Id put that at the same level just about. Next year you have a chance to grab Zion Williamson or Bol Bol. I have Sacramento having the worst record in the NBA next year, at least bottom 3. You dont touch that pick. Rozier by himself is worth a top 5 pick, no need to sweeten any deal unless youre talking about Anthony Davis.
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If I can get 5 or 6 I wouldn't be drafting Bama. I'd take Porter
Irving, Brown, Tatum, Porter, Horford
Disagree for a few reasons.
We have no data on Porter other than high-school, where there were fair concerns he played against weak opposition. He hasn't come up against any notable opposition yet. There are also significant injury concerns.
Compare this to injury free Bamba, with his elite rim protection, good rebounding and developing shooting touch I couldn't justify taking Porter.
Plus, I can't see Porter pushing Hayward out of the starting lineup. Hayward next to JT is better than JT next to Porter
Shooting touch is not something to bring up when lobbying for Bamba over Porter.
Right, because I definitely said Bamba was a better shooter than Porter, or anything like that.
Right, because I definitely accused you of doing so, or anything like that. ::)
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I think Terry and the C's 1st pick this year is enough to move into the top 10 and take the best big available