During nba player call, kyrie was big voice. “Asked All mundane questions”

[SHAQATTACK]

Just like to point out, but Florida has been reporting really strong increases in COVID recently and every day it seems like they are now setting records with the number of cases they get positive.

So is the NBA sure they can pull through with this? Still over 7 weeks away but if this continues in FL then how exactly is putting everyone "in a bubble" in Orlando going to work? I have my doubts.

Not trying to take sides here on returning vs. no returning, but what are others' thoughts on this?

I hope the NBA isn't about to comitt an historical poor decision , after doing a good job closing down quickly at the out break. 

Im in the camp with players who want to hold off till a safer point in the future , when ever that is .

For now ,Im just standind back watching this unfold with a critical eye.

[hpantazo]

Yeah for all the self celebratory appearances Florida's governor had made about his state handling and beating covid-19, they are going in the wrong direction lately. Florida's policies also don't give much hope for avoiding a full blown outbreak there anytime soon.

Still, Disney is a self contained resort. The NBA and Disney can prevent or control who goes in and out and fully manage infections if they want to.

[SparzWizard]

Just like to point out, but Florida has been reporting really strong increases in COVID recently and every day it seems like they are now setting records with the number of cases they get positive.

So is the NBA sure they can pull through with this? Still over 7 weeks away but if this continues in FL then how exactly is putting everyone "in a bubble" in Orlando going to work? I have my doubts.

Not trying to take sides here on returning vs. no returning, but what are others' thoughts on this?

I mean it's LeBron's league so he wants the league to keep the season running. He wants his fourth ring pretty bad.

[CelticSooner]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

[hpantazo]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

I think you are underrating the value of $$$ to the people who are going to decide this.

[cman88]

Just like to point out, but Florida has been reporting really strong increases in COVID recently and every day it seems like they are now setting records with the number of cases they get positive.

So is the NBA sure they can pull through with this? Still over 7 weeks away but if this continues in FL then how exactly is putting everyone "in a bubble" in Orlando going to work? I have my doubts.

Not trying to take sides here on returning vs. no returning, but what are others' thoughts on this?

I hope the NBA isn't about to comitt an historical poor decision , after doing a good job closing down quickly at the out break. 

Im in the camp with players who want to hold off till a safer point in the future , when ever that is .

For now ,Im just standind back watching this unfold with a critical eye.

Most of the country is going back to work...and for alot less than the millions these NBA players make. I understand what you are saying.

Fauci said he is confident of their plan and it looks like a safe one in this self contained area.

[Moranis]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

I think you are underrating the value of $$$ to the people who are going to decide this.

Not only that there are a lot more positives than just money to playing out the season.

[GreenShooter]

Just like to point out, but Florida has been reporting really strong increases in COVID recently and every day it seems like they are now setting records with the number of cases they get positive.

So is the NBA sure they can pull through with this? Still over 7 weeks away but if this continues in FL then how exactly is putting everyone "in a bubble" in Orlando going to work? I have my doubts.

Not trying to take sides here on returning vs. no returning, but what are others' thoughts on this?

If you look at their dashboard they are doing way more tests now. The positive % is still around 5 so nothing to get alarmed about. Their hospitalizations are down as well. More testing (they've tested almost 1.5 mil) means more positive results. Their rate/mil is still very low. Though the % of positives has gone up from like 2.5 to 4.6 from recent testing. Same as the other states like Texas.

[CelticSooner]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

I think you are underrating the value of $$$ to the people who are going to decide this.

Not only that there are a lot more positives than just money to playing out the season.

Would positives would that be?

[Donoghus]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

I think you are underrating the value of $$$ to the people who are going to decide this.

Not only that there are a lot more positives than just money to playing out the season.

Would positives would that be?

Given how determined MLB seems to be to sabotage itself, it would certainly open up the door for more spotlight being shined on the NBA this summer.   Pull more eyeballs in & grow the sport. 

Also, if the NBA somehow pulls this off with no COVID setbacks, then you're helping set the template for the presentation of sports for the time being.

[Moranis]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

I think you are underrating the value of $$$ to the people who are going to decide this.

Not only that there are a lot more positives than just money to playing out the season.

Would positives would that be?

If you play you have a bigger platform for your social issues (or any other issues) i.e. you are in the news more, you give interviews more, etc.  If you play, you provide entertainment and a distraction to the public at large, which has a wonderful positive outcome.  If you play, you get yourself some semblance of normalcy i.e. people tend to just feel better about themselves when they are working, contributing, etc.  If you play, you finish out a season and get everything that comes from finishing out a season i.e. the accolades, awards, you crown a champion, etc.  If you play, you get the joy of playing, I mean most of these guys absolutely love playing basketball, seeing their teammates, opponents, etc. 

I'm sure there are countless other positives to playing the rest of the season that have nothing to do with actual financial compensation.  Obviously finances are a large factor, both for this season and seasons in the future (i.e. the more they bring in this year the more they can make going forward). 

[celticsclay]

The negatives outweigh the only positive ($$$) of a return. I’m not convinced it actually happens.

I think you are underrating the value of $$$ to the people who are going to decide this.

Not only that there are a lot more positives than just money to playing out the season.

Would positives would that be?

If you play you have a bigger platform for your social issues (or any other issues) i.e. you are in the news more, you give interviews more, etc.  If you play, you provide entertainment and a distraction to the public at large, which has a wonderful positive outcome.  If you play, you get yourself some semblance of normalcy i.e. people tend to just feel better about themselves when they are working, contributing, etc.  If you play, you finish out a season and get everything that comes from finishing out a season i.e. the accolades, awards, you crown a champion, etc.  If you play, you get the joy of playing, I mean most of these guys absolutely love playing basketball, seeing their teammates, opponents, etc. 

I'm sure there are countless other positives to playing the rest of the season that have nothing to do with actual financial compensation.  Obviously finances are a large factor, both for this season and seasons in the future (i.e. the more they bring in this year the more they can make going forward).

The counter argument to this is that has been raised by many is that the reason we are actually seeing some police reform happening around the country right now and the extensive protesting is that there is nothing else on to distract people. You might not have a thousand people marching all over the country right now if bars, concerts, movie theaters are on along with the NBA playoffs. Some NBA players do think it serves as a distraction. Could they make a big difference by making statements during interviews or pre-game? Perhaps, but we have to remember the "i can't breathe" warmups and activity surrounding Trayvon Martin didn't actually results in any policy changes. It should also tell us something that Trump has been chomping at the bit to get sports back on right now. A lot of these things are very complicated and difficult to measure. I am also a bit uncertain if the league can really be safe from COVID-19. We just had a large number of players in the NFL test positive and as others mentioned cases in Florida are on the increase. It is tough for me to imagine that two weeks from now we can have like a thousand people in Orlando and things just go swimmingly. I personally think it is going to be pretty crazy if the Bucks have Giannis and Bledsoe and Hill get covid and miss a round and the 76ers have zero cases and beat them.

This article also has a summary of some of the players concerns: https://deadspin.com/for-once-don-t-dismiss-kyrie-irving-his-stance-is-leg-1844031726

[bdm860]

but we have to remember the "i can't breathe" warmups and activity surrounding Trayvon Martin didn't actually results in any policy changes

This is a tough one, even with these protests there's not really a specific policy to change. It's not like there's a "black lives don't matter" policy that needs to be repealed.  It's more of a collective idea that needs to be continually pushed forward, something that the I can't breathe t-shirts probably helped with.

Daniel Pantaleo (Eric Garner choke hold) fired.
Amber Guyger (shot black man in own apartment), convicted of murder.
Aaron Dean (shot black women through window while she was in her home playing video games), charged with murder.
Derek Chauvin (George Floyd), charged with murder.

I would argue all the small protests over the years, the I can't breath shirts, the Colin Kaepernick protest, etc. all helped push us here and contributed to those officers being fired/charged with murder.  All those small protests beforehand helped raise public awareness.


If the NBA plans to sit out, I think they'd need specific, accomplishable goals.  "We won't play until qualified immunity is repealed" something  like that.  Still think they could do more good by playing, and doubt protests will still be going on in August (so NBA will no longer be distracting people from the issues), but that's just my own guess.

In 1968, Kareem boycotted the Olympics.  John Carlos and Tommie Smith played.  I think Carlos and Smith's actions did more to further the cause then Kareem's boycott.  Unfortunately it was a long slow process though, and at the time it probably seemed like they accomplished little.

[celticsclay]

but we have to remember the "i can't breathe" warmups and activity surrounding Trayvon Martin didn't actually results in any policy changes

This is a tough one, even with these protests there's not really a specific policy to change. It's not like there's a "black lives don't matter" policy that needs to be repealed.  It's more of a collective idea that needs to be continually pushed forward, something that the I can't breathe t-shirts probably helped with.

Daniel Pantaleo (Eric Garner choke hold) fired.
Amber Guyger (shot black man in own apartment), convicted of murder.
Aaron Dean (shot black women through window while she was in her home playing video games), charged with murder.
Derek Chauvin (George Floyd), charged with murder.

I would argue all the small protests over the years, the I can't breath shirts, the Colin Kaepernick protest, etc. all helped push us here and contributed to those officers being fired/charged with murder.  All those small protests beforehand helped raise public awareness.


If the NBA plans to sit out, I think they'd need specific, accomplishable goals.  "We won't play until qualified immunity is repealed" something  like that.  Still think they could do more good by playing, and doubt protests will still be going on in August (so NBA will no longer be distracting people from the issues), but that's just my own guess.

In 1968, Kareem boycotted the Olympics.  John Carlos and Tommie Smith played.  I think Carlos and Smith's actions did more to further the cause then Kareem's boycott.  Unfortunately it was a long slow process though, and at the time it probably seemed like they accomplished little.

It is pretty hard to argue that the protests right now are not resulting in policy changes (I could put in 50 more of these from around the country, but here is just a random selection). This did not happen at anything close to this scale surrounding Trayvon martin or Eric Garner. These protests have also been much larger and ongoing and are credited pretty universally with impacting these changes. Whether these changes ultimately are significant is another topic, but we can't argue they haven't been more significant than the I can't breathe and NBA actions a few years back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/us/rayshard-brooks-keisha-bottoms-atlanta.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/11/police-reform-minnesota-walz/
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/chokeholds-banned-swat-to-use-bodycams-under-new-denver-police-policies/73-2dd3fc4a-71b9-4d50-8a50-399cbeb51070
https://mynorthwest.com/1949864/seattle-councilmember-chokehold-gig-payment/

[bdm860]

but we have to remember the "i can't breathe" warmups and activity surrounding Trayvon Martin didn't actually results in any policy changes

This is a tough one, even with these protests there's not really a specific policy to change. It's not like there's a "black lives don't matter" policy that needs to be repealed.  It's more of a collective idea that needs to be continually pushed forward, something that the I can't breathe t-shirts probably helped with.

Daniel Pantaleo (Eric Garner choke hold) fired.
Amber Guyger (shot black man in own apartment), convicted of murder.
Aaron Dean (shot black women through window while she was in her home playing video games), charged with murder.
Derek Chauvin (George Floyd), charged with murder.

I would argue all the small protests over the years, the I can't breath shirts, the Colin Kaepernick protest, etc. all helped push us here and contributed to those officers being fired/charged with murder.  All those small protests beforehand helped raise public awareness.


If the NBA plans to sit out, I think they'd need specific, accomplishable goals.  "We won't play until qualified immunity is repealed" something  like that.  Still think they could do more good by playing, and doubt protests will still be going on in August (so NBA will no longer be distracting people from the issues), but that's just my own guess.

In 1968, Kareem boycotted the Olympics.  John Carlos and Tommie Smith played.  I think Carlos and Smith's actions did more to further the cause then Kareem's boycott.  Unfortunately it was a long slow process though, and at the time it probably seemed like they accomplished little.

It is pretty hard to argue that the protests right now are not resulting in policy changes (I could put in 50 more of these from around the country, but here is just a random selection). This did not happen at anything close to this scale surrounding Trayvon martin or Eric Garner. These protests have also been much larger and ongoing and are credited pretty universally with impacting these changes. Whether these changes ultimately are significant is another topic, but we can't argue they haven't been more significant than the I can't breathe and NBA actions a few years back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/us/rayshard-brooks-keisha-bottoms-atlanta.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/11/police-reform-minnesota-walz/
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/chokeholds-banned-swat-to-use-bodycams-under-new-denver-police-policies/73-2dd3fc4a-71b9-4d50-8a50-399cbeb51070
https://mynorthwest.com/1949864/seattle-councilmember-chokehold-gig-payment/

I guess I was thinking about bigger policies, not the low hanging fruit of banning choke holds (not trying to dismiss those though as if they are unimportant, but NYC had already banned it since '93, that low hanging fruit wasn't available to them when the Garner situation happened, also I think of those as more of a facade than real policy change). But the Garner situation still led to policy change, whose to say the NBA didn't help?

After Garner’s death, the police department required all 36,000 officers to undergo three days of training, including classes focused on de-escalation. Last year, it began training officers on fair and impartial policing, teaching them to recognize biases and rely on facts, not racial stereotypes.

In March, it finished outfitting all patrol officers with body cameras. And the department now requires officers to detail the actions they took each time they used force — not just when they fired their gun.

Following a court ruling and a policy shift, the city dramatically reduced officers’ use of stop and frisk, a practice in which officers stop people on the streets and search them for weapons. In 2011, the NYPD reported 685,724 such stops. Last year, there were about 11,000.

“That has led to hundreds of thousands of fewer police-civilian encounters, each of which has the potential to escalate into something like what happened to Eric Garner,” said Christopher Dunn, a lawyer with the New York Civil Liberties Union.

Mayor Bill de Blasio said his priority for the department is to ensure something like Garner’s death never happens again.

“The NYPD of today is a different institution than it was just a few years ago,” de Blasio said Monday after the department fired Pantaleo.

Trayvon Martiin led to the creation of BLM.  Don't forget George Zimmerman wasn't even arrested at first.  But the NBA players used their platform, and George Zimmerman had to have has day in court.

LeBron tweeted about Ahmaud Arbery (which I believe helped give that story traction), the national traction led to the arrests of those involved.

Unfortunately, greater social justice is all about baby steps.  Any change that's happening now isn't happening because of George Floyd, it's happening because of years of protests culminating with George being the tipping point.

Maybe I'm discrediting the current policy change too much, but don't discredit all the years of previous efforts that helped get us here.

Still think the world is better served with NBA players using their platform for good.  Use the Disney situation to speak out and push the message out there even more.