CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: PhoSita on May 04, 2018, 12:13:35 PM
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I'm gonna come clean. I'm mad at the Raptors.
I want somebody to beat LeBron. I hate that the Cavs can half or quarter butt-cheek their way through a season and still make the Finals because they have LeBron and guys like Jeff Green or J.R. Smith will remember how to play for a game or two in a series.
The Raptors somehow suckered me into thinking they were actually as good as their record and their point differential. Me, dummy.
So, as retribution, and because I think it's what would be best for their fans, the franchise, and the players involved, I think they should blow it up.
Let's help them!
It's hard to figure out how they could trade Lowry, who is 30+ and making a ton of money, or Derozan, who is nearing 30 and also making a ton of money. Ibaka seems nigh untradeable. Valanciunas has questionable trade value, though he's still young.
But let's try. So give me your best ideas for how the Raps can trade away Lowry, Derozan, and Valanciunas. Bonus points if you can figure out a reasonable Ibaka trade, though honestly I think he's just dead weight (a "clattering boneyard" as Bruce Arthur brilliantly put it).
I want to see the Raptors enter next year with a roster that no longer includes Lowry or Derozan. Ideally they should be featuring their young bench mob as their future. These trades needn't be aimed at allowing them to stay relevant. That ship has sailed. It's time for a true reset in Toronto.
VanVleet, Wright, OG, Siakam, Poeltl ---> That's the Raptors core. Everybody else can go.
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Unfortunately, it's hard to see any team trading for any of those guys unless the Raptors throw in some picks (with the other team taking back the bad contract).
Maybe the Knicks go after a DeRozan or Lowry? Suns? Bucks?
They've got the assets to get it done.
Maybe Middleton, Henson + pick(s) for DeRozan?
If Knicks are serious in Lebron pursuit (lol), maybe Ntilikina + salary pieces + pick for DeRozan or Lowry?
But yeah if you're talking pure rebuild and stockpiling picks, it's hard to imagine doing that esp. when teams may need to match salaries in trades.
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I don't think Valanciunas has any real value to move, more of a shuffling of disappointing players type of deal for him I think.
I think they're locked in for another year.
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I don't think Valanciunas has any real value to move, more of a shuffling of disappointing players type of deal for him I think.
I think they're locked in for another year.
If I was them, I would look to move Lowry and Derozan for anything I could get. Valanciunas I might keep in the hopes that in a different ecosystem he could thrive.
He was pretty good this year, all told. Great per minute production and had a lot of value in 20 minutes per game.
Ibaka is probably untradeable.
But I would want to give Lowry and Derozan fresh starts elsewhere, and I would want to give my fans a fresh start. I think many Raps fans are probably feeling like they've seen all there is to see with a team led by Lowry and Derozan. We all know how another season with those guys would end.
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Unfortunately, it's hard to see any team trading for any of those guys unless the Raptors throw in some picks (with the other team taking back the bad contract).
Maybe the Knicks go after a DeRozan or Lowry? Suns? Bucks?
They've got the assets to get it done.
Maybe Middleton, Henson + pick(s) for DeRozan?
If Knicks are serious in Lebron pursuit (lol), maybe Ntilikina + salary pieces + pick for DeRozan or Lowry?
But yeah if you're talking pure rebuild and stockpiling picks, it's hard to imagine doing that esp. when teams may need to match salaries in trades.
I'm talking about getting any value at all in return for Lowry and Derozan. Primary goal would be to clear the deck for the young guys and have a franchise reset in terms of who the main faces are and really refocusing the style of play on the fast pace, sharing the ball, young guys thing they had going with their bench this year.
I like the Derozan for Middleton etc idea. That seems like a swap that could make sense for both sides in terms of two teams that need some roster shuffling just to shake things up.
I could also totally see the Knicks trading Ntilikina and filler for Lowry.
Perhaps the Blazers would consider a McCollum - Derozan swap? Doesn't really fix any of their problems, but both teams might see the benefit of a swap.
I wonder if the Suns would do Ulis + Bender + filler (Chandler, Dudley) for Lowry + filler.
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Demar Derozen and a first for Kawii Leonard and Rudy Gay would allow Spurs to continue contending with the right moves.
Loul Deng, Kuzma, and Randle for Derozen? Gives Lakers chance to get their 3 stars and gives Toronto a reboot of youth.
Mccollum and a prospect or pick for Derozen? Gives both teams a change of scenery on things that have grown stale?
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I wonder if the Kings would trade Bogdan Bogdanovic, Justin Jackson and filler (Z.Bo for Temple + Koufos) for Derozan.
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I wonder if the Kings would trade Bogdan Bogdanovic, Justin Jackson and filler (Z.Bo for Temple + Koufos) for Derozan.
Why would the Kings want to get Derozan? Cause they don't their pick? That is still a lottery team with him and he would hurt the development of Hield and Fox most likely?
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I wonder if the Kings would trade Bogdan Bogdanovic, Justin Jackson and filler (Z.Bo for Temple + Koufos) for Derozan.
Why would the Kings want to get Derozan? Cause they don't their pick? That is still a lottery team with him and he would hurt the development of Hield and Fox most likely?
They've been bad for so long, Derozan is a top 20 player, and I think he could play alongside Fox and Hield.
And like you said, they don't own their pick next year anyway.
If I was the Kings any move that gave my team a sense of progression toward competing without compromising my youth movement would be worthwhile to me.
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Would the Raps be willing to take Rozier for Ibaka?
Ainge would be a fool not to pull the trigger on that one
::) ::) ::)
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Would the Raps be willing to take Rozier for Ibaka?
Ainge would be a fool not to pull the trigger on that one
::) ::) ::)
Haha. 8)
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I am mad at the Raptors, too. What a disappointment. If we are able to pull out the series, I really don't want to face another Lebron team. Who knows? Maybe we can surprise...
But I also think that the Raptors should wait to see what Lebron first does in FA. If he goes west, then they should totally keep their core...and they should probably keep their core anyway and hope for a draft or trade steal.
I realize that your point isn't to argue why the Raptors should stand pat, but rather what they could get if they don't. Unfortunately, this is a very tough exercise because with so few teams having cap space this summer, they would need to match salaries which means no young players with potential (or picks). Philly would be a nice option if they strike out on Lebron/Kawhi/George. DeRozan is a hero in that city, though - they better be sure the return they get for him is legit.
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Demar Derozen and a first for Kawii Leonard and Rudy Gay would allow Spurs to continue contending with the right moves.
Loul Deng, Kuzma, and Randle for Derozen? Gives Lakers chance to get their 3 stars and gives Toronto a reboot of youth.
Mccollum and a prospect or pick for Derozen? Gives both teams a change of scenery on things that have grown stale?
Okay that first trade is never gonna happen lol.
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- Grizz trade #2 pick (after the draft for salary matching purposes), Chandler Parsons' mega-toxic contract, and spare parts for Lowry and Derozan. They make one last run with Gasol and Conley.
- Pelicans send expirings plus unprotected future picks for DeRozan
- Jazz send young players for DeRozan
- Wolves send Teague + picks/players for Lowry or Derozan
- Cavs send Nets pick + players (this one has a high probability of happening)
- Knicks dump Noah's corpse + #9
- Hornets trade #11 + players
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- Cavs send Nets pick + players (this one has a high probability of happening)
I hadn't thought of this possibility, but it does make some sense potentially.
Knicks trading Ntilikina + #9 and filler for Lowry or Derozan seems like a VERY Knicks thing to do.
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How about a crazy blockbuster deal that sends both Lowry and DeRozan to Minnesota.
Toronto receives:
Andrew Wiggins (via sign and trade)
Taj Gibson (expiring contract)
Cole Aldrich (expiring contract)
Jeff Teague (needed for salary matching)
2018 first round pick from OKC
2019 first round pick from Minnesota
Minnesota receives:
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
CJ Miles
Both teams would be sending out roughly $66 million in salary. This is assuming that Wiggins signs for the same max RFA deal that Otto Porter received from Washington. The biggest issue for the Raptors is that they would probably value additional salary relief or lottery picks instead of Andrew Wiggins.
If they like Wiggins then this would allow them to begin a rebuild with all of the young players on their current roster. I don't think they would make the playoffs in 2018-19 which means their own draft pick would be in the lottery.
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I am mad at the Raptors, too. What a disappointment. If we are able to pull out the series, I really don't want to face another Lebron team. Who knows? Maybe we can surprise...
But I also think that the Raptors should wait to see what Lebron first does in FA. If he goes west, then they should totally keep their core...and they should probably keep their core anyway and hope for a draft or trade steal.
I realize that your point isn't to argue why the Raptors should stand pat, but rather what they could get if they don't. Unfortunately, this is a very tough exercise because with so few teams having cap space this summer, they would need to match salaries which means no young players with potential (or picks). Philly would be a nice option if they strike out on Lebron/Kawhi/George. DeRozan is a hero in that city, though - they better be sure the return they get for him is legit.
I don't think it's a LeBron issue. For some reason, the Raptors team tightens up in the playoffs. Actually, the duo of Lowry and Derozan tightens up in the playoffs. Maybe their just not a good pairing. Could they both be Robins, but disguised as Batmans? I think Toronto would benefit by trading one of those guys.
Actually, Washington and Portland fall into this category too. They each think they have two superstar players, and pay them as such, but those players are missing something come playoff time. We will see shortly if Houston becomes the latest victim too. Out of those four teams, is James Harden the only player to make it out of the second round (coming off the bench for OKC)?
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- Cavs send Nets pick + players (this one has a high probability of happening)
I hadn't thought of this possibility, but it does make some sense potentially.
Knicks trading Ntilikina + #9 and filler for Lowry or Derozan seems like a VERY Knicks thing to do.
Yes it does lol. Same with the Hornets. Those pesky picks/young players are just burning holes in their pockets.
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DeRozan to the Lakers for Ingram + Deng.
Kyle Lowry to the Sixers for Bayless and Fultz.
Ibaka to the Bucks for Henson and Wilson.
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How about a crazy blockbuster deal that sends both Lowry and DeRozan to Minnesota.
Toronto receives:
Andrew Wiggins (via sign and trade)
Taj Gibson (expiring contract)
Cole Aldrich (expiring contract)
Jeff Teague (needed for salary matching)
2018 first round pick from OKC
2019 first round pick from Minnesota
Minnesota receives:
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
CJ Miles
Both teams would be sending out roughly $66 million in salary. This is assuming that Wiggins signs for the same max RFA deal that Otto Porter received from Washington. The biggest issue for the Raptors is that they would probably value additional salary relief or lottery picks instead of Andrew Wiggins.
If they like Wiggins then this would allow them to begin a rebuild with all of the young players on their current roster. I don't think they would make the playoffs in 2018-19 which means their own draft pick would be in the lottery.
I dunno if Minny would be willing to move on from Wiggins just yet, but they should. IMO it's unlikely he will ever be a winner, but he has enough potential and youth still that he's a nice prospect for Toronto.
But Minny would be loaded if they did this deal. Add some 3-and-D roleplayers to the mix and they are finally in the hunt.
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teach them "The Process."TM
;D
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How about a crazy blockbuster deal that sends both Lowry and DeRozan to Minnesota.
Toronto receives:
Andrew Wiggins (via sign and trade)
Taj Gibson (expiring contract)
Cole Aldrich (expiring contract)
Jeff Teague (needed for salary matching)
2018 first round pick from OKC
2019 first round pick from Minnesota
Minnesota receives:
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
CJ Miles
Both teams would be sending out roughly $66 million in salary. This is assuming that Wiggins signs for the same max RFA deal that Otto Porter received from Washington. The biggest issue for the Raptors is that they would probably value additional salary relief or lottery picks instead of Andrew Wiggins.
If they like Wiggins then this would allow them to begin a rebuild with all of the young players on their current roster. I don't think they would make the playoffs in 2018-19 which means their own draft pick would be in the lottery.
Love this trade. It makes sense for both teams. TP
Wiggins back to Canada. Top end Wolves talent 1-4.
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DeRozan is a hero in that city, though - they better be sure the return they get for him is legit.
I think you can reach a point where the way to do right by your star player is to trade him elsewhere so he can move on with his career / achieve what he wants to achieve that can't happen with your team.
I feel that the Raps have reached that point with Lowry and Derozan. It's not getting better from here with those guys leading the roster, and after this season I think everybody has to know that.
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Maybe Middleton, Henson + pick(s) for DeRozan?
Lol, that is such a ripoff for Toronto, imo, as Middleton is so much better than Derozan that it's not even funny, lol.
Demar Derozen and a first for Kawii Leonard and Rudy Gay would allow Spurs to continue contending with the right moves.
Loul Deng, Kuzma, and Randle for Derozen? Gives Lakers chance to get their 3 stars and gives Toronto a reboot of youth.
Mccollum and a prospect or pick for Derozen? Gives both teams a change of scenery on things that have grown stale?
Okay that first trade is never gonna happen lol.
Cosign, Monk :), and while that second proposed trade sounds like a ripoff for LA, man would it be hilarious to see Derozan and/or Lowry crap their pants for the Lakers in the postseason lma0 ;D.
- Cavs send Nets pick + players (this one has a high probability of happening)
I hadn't thought of this possibility, but it does make some sense potentially.
I actually saw that proposed on Twitter, last night, although many of those ideas were pretty must centered around joking that Derozan should pull a Durant, and the rest of the Tweets were just atrocious because Twitter. In one example, some user called Derozan the "down syndrome [version of] Kobe" :o. Yeah, it was beyond awful.
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How about a crazy blockbuster deal that sends both Lowry and DeRozan to Minnesota.
Toronto receives:
Andrew Wiggins (via sign and trade)
Taj Gibson (expiring contract)
Cole Aldrich (expiring contract)
Jeff Teague (needed for salary matching)
2018 first round pick from OKC
2019 first round pick from Minnesota
Minnesota receives:
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
CJ Miles
Both teams would be sending out roughly $66 million in salary. This is assuming that Wiggins signs for the same max RFA deal that Otto Porter received from Washington. The biggest issue for the Raptors is that they would probably value additional salary relief or lottery picks instead of Andrew Wiggins.
If they like Wiggins then this would allow them to begin a rebuild with all of the young players on their current roster. I don't think they would make the playoffs in 2018-19 which means their own draft pick would be in the lottery.
Love this trade. It makes sense for both teams. TP
Wiggins back to Canada. Top end Wolves talent 1-4.
I'm not a Wiggins fan, but I agree that the idea of sending Derozan or Lowry to Minnesota and Wiggins playing in Canada is intriguing for both sides.
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How about a crazy blockbuster deal that sends both Lowry and DeRozan to Minnesota.
Toronto receives:
Andrew Wiggins (via sign and trade)
Taj Gibson (expiring contract)
Cole Aldrich (expiring contract)
Jeff Teague (needed for salary matching)
2018 first round pick from OKC
2019 first round pick from Minnesota
Minnesota receives:
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
CJ Miles
Both teams would be sending out roughly $66 million in salary. This is assuming that Wiggins signs for the same max RFA deal that Otto Porter received from Washington. The biggest issue for the Raptors is that they would probably value additional salary relief or lottery picks instead of Andrew Wiggins.
If they like Wiggins then this would allow them to begin a rebuild with all of the young players on their current roster. I don't think they would make the playoffs in 2018-19 which means their own draft pick would be in the lottery.
I don’t know the particulars off the top of my head, but Wiggins already signed a huge extension.
I think the best bet for Toronto, if they indeed get trounced by LeBron yet again, is to trade them separately. My guess would be they hold on to both and hope LeBron goes West and take their chances against Boston as the clear top dog. It’s a bad idea but can they possibly get good value for them coming off their biggest flop yet?
They seem like the type of franchise content with putting together winning seasons, getting heir fan base excited, and bowing out expectedly early. Zero chance at a title but hey, fun basketball from October to April.
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A deal centered around Beal and Derozen seems pretty obvious also. Both teams need a shake up.
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They seem like the type of franchise content with putting together winning seasons, getting heir fan base excited, and bowing out expectedly early. Zero chance at a title but hey, fun basketball from October to April.
I agree that this is probably how Toronto looks at things for the most part, but I think after several years of disappointing, feckless playoff exits, they actually jeopardize their fan base continuing to be excited about "fun basketball" that their team plays if they continue to trot out Lowry and Derozan as the main guys for that team.
It's okay if your team isn't competing for a championship, but you need to be able to sell a narrative.
If you go forward with another year of Lowry - Derozan, the narrative you're advancing is "No matter how good this team looks in the regular season, they will be painfully disappointing in the playoffs." They already tried to reset their playstyle and revamp their supporting cast in the hopes it would give a sense of a raised ceiling, of "this time being different." It didn't work. In fact, it is failing spectacularly at the moment.
"Another year that ends in crushing disappointment" is a hard sell to any fanbase.
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How about a crazy blockbuster deal that sends both Lowry and DeRozan to Minnesota.
Toronto receives:
Andrew Wiggins (via sign and trade)
Taj Gibson (expiring contract)
Cole Aldrich (expiring contract)
Jeff Teague (needed for salary matching)
2018 first round pick from OKC
2019 first round pick from Minnesota
Minnesota receives:
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
CJ Miles
Both teams would be sending out roughly $66 million in salary. This is assuming that Wiggins signs for the same max RFA deal that Otto Porter received from Washington. The biggest issue for the Raptors is that they would probably value additional salary relief or lottery picks instead of Andrew Wiggins.
If they like Wiggins then this would allow them to begin a rebuild with all of the young players on their current roster. I don't think they would make the playoffs in 2018-19 which means their own draft pick would be in the lottery.
I don’t know the particulars off the top of my head, but Wiggins already signed a huge extension.
I think the best bet for Toronto, if they indeed get trounced by LeBron yet again, is to trade them separately. My guess would be they hold on to both and hope LeBron goes West and take their chances against Boston as the clear top dog. It’s a bad idea but can they possibly get good value for them coming off their biggest flop yet?
They seem like the type of franchise content with putting together winning seasons, getting heir fan base excited, and bowing out expectedly early. Zero chance at a title but hey, fun basketball from October to April.
You are right about Wiggins. I forgot that he signed an extension starting at $25 million next season. Salaries would still match in my proposed deal.
It will be interesting to see if the Raptors organization is content being a perennial 2nd round playoff team. Ownership may very well be content making good money with a fun product, especially if LeBron goes to the Western Conference.
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A deal centered around Beal and Derozen seems pretty obvious also. Both teams need a shake up.
Which would completely backfire, as DeRozan cannot play with Wall, and Beal needs to play with a player that can keep up with his speed.
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I actually think Lowry makes some sense for Philly if they strike out in free agency and can’t trade for Kawhi. If they let Redick and Amir walk, they could nearly absorb Lowry’s contract into cap space I believe. I wonder if TLC, their 2019 1st, and several 2nd round picks could ultimately nab Lowry at this point? A lineup of Simmons, Lowry, Covington, Saric, and Embiid with Fultz, McConnell, Holmes, Korkmaz, Anderson, and a top-10 pick (Lakers) off the bench would be pretty good. It’d also allow them to bring Fultz along slowly behind Lowry.
As for Derozan, I could see LAL being interested in him if they strike out on their pipe dream of Lebron and George. Can’t imagine that they’d get either Ball or Ingram, but maybe something like Randle in a sign-and-trade with Kuzma? I don’t know; it’s hard to gauge their value at this point.
Granted, I’m not sure why they’d break this team up if that’s the return. I fully expect any trade offers to be low, and I suspect they run the same team back again next year.
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A deal centered around Beal and Derozen seems pretty obvious also. Both teams need a shake up.
I don't think this makes sense for the Wizards at all. Wall and Beal struggle to close games together but I can't imagine DeRozan being a better fit. Your two best scorers cannot be poor perimeter shooters if the ultimate goal is to be a Finals contender. Beal is also much younger than DeRozan.
Wall and DeRozan shoot 25% from three in the playoffs combined on 5.6 attempts per game. Currently Tatum, Jaylen, Horford, and Rozier all have a higher EFG% this postseason than the career averages of Wall and DeRozan.
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If the Cavs knew that James was staying I could totally see them moving the BKN pick for Lowry or DeRozan as both would be excellent pieces next to James. However since the Cavs have no idea on James I can't see that trade being made.
Lowry in Philly and DeRozan in NY both make sense. Not sure the trade packages for those to happen as the money and value aren't easy to hit.
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If the Cavs knew that James was staying I could totally see them moving the BKN pick for Lowry or DeRozan as both would be excellent pieces next to James. However since the Cavs have no idea on James I can't see that trade being made.
Wouldn't salaries have to match up. Also CLE has beat on TOR for years, and I doubt they trade to help the guy who was central to beating year in and out so he can win a title.
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I think if you'e the Raptors, you try to retool and maybe bring in a new coach (although I generally hate the "just fire the coach, that's the answer" mentality) and run it back for a year. After that, Ibaka and Lowry will both be on expirings which should have some value and Derozan will only be 29 and still in his prime, so he'll be movable.
What I'm saying is I think they can get more for their biggest pieces next season.
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If the Cavs knew that James was staying I could totally see them moving the BKN pick for Lowry or DeRozan as both would be excellent pieces next to James. However since the Cavs have no idea on James I can't see that trade being made.
Lowry in Philly and DeRozan in NY both make sense. Not sure the trade packages for those to happen as the money and value aren't easy to hit.
Interesting idea with the Cavs. Let's make this more fun and pretend the Brooklyn pick somehow lands in the top 3. LeBron tells the Cavs he will stay if they can move the pick in a deal that makes them a legitimate contender against Golden State.
Cleveland receives:
Kyle Lowry
DeMar Derozan
Toronto Recieves:
BKN 18 pick (somewhere between 1-3)
George Hill
Jordan Clarkson
Tristan Thompson
Cedi Osman
This trade checks out on the ESPN trade machine and I think it's even better for Toronto than my proposed deal with Minnesota. Could they stomach sending DeRozan and Lowry to the Cavs? Are the Cavs good enough to beat a the Warriors with that group?
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If the Cavs knew that James was staying I could totally see them moving the BKN pick for Lowry or DeRozan as both would be excellent pieces next to James. However since the Cavs have no idea on James I can't see that trade being made.
Lowry in Philly and DeRozan in NY both make sense. Not sure the trade packages for those to happen as the money and value aren't easy to hit.
Interesting idea with the Cavs. Let's make this more fun and pretend the Brooklyn pick somehow lands in the top 3. LeBron tells the Cavs he will stay if they can move the pick in a deal that makes them a legitimate contender against Golden State.
Cleveland receives:
Kyle Lowry
DeMar Derozan
Toronto Recieves:
BKN 18 pick (somewhere between 1-3)
George Hill
Jordan Clarkson
Tristan Thompson
Cedi Osman
This trade checks out on the ESPN trade machine and I think it's even better for Toronto than my proposed deal with Minnesota. Could they stomach sending DeRozan and Lowry to the Cavs? Are the Cavs good enough to beat a the Warriors with that group?
Two allstars for a two bad contracts, an overpaid expiring, a fringe prospect and a top 3 pick? Seems legit.
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If the Cavs knew that James was staying I could totally see them moving the BKN pick for Lowry or DeRozan as both would be excellent pieces next to James. However since the Cavs have no idea on James I can't see that trade being made.
Lowry in Philly and DeRozan in NY both make sense. Not sure the trade packages for those to happen as the money and value aren't easy to hit.
Interesting idea with the Cavs. Let's make this more fun and pretend the Brooklyn pick somehow lands in the top 3. LeBron tells the Cavs he will stay if they can move the pick in a deal that makes them a legitimate contender against Golden State.
Cleveland receives:
Kyle Lowry
DeMar Derozan
Toronto Recieves:
BKN 18 pick (somewhere between 1-3)
George Hill
Jordan Clarkson
Tristan Thompson
Cedi Osman
This trade checks out on the ESPN trade machine and I think it's even better for Toronto than my proposed deal with Minnesota. Could they stomach sending DeRozan and Lowry to the Cavs? Are the Cavs good enough to beat a the Warriors with that group?
Two allstars for a two bad contracts, an overpaid expiring, a fringe prospect and a top 3 pick? Seems legit.
It's not as crazy as you're implying. Would I make the deal if I was Toronto? No, because it sends a negative message to the fan base they have built over the past four years. I like the way Utah has approached team building. You are completely right about the bad contracts too. It's hard to justify dealing two All-Stars without creating significant cap flexibility.
However, I definitely wouldn't want to turn into the Atlanta Hawks. They traded Joe Johnson at 30 years old for a bunch of expiring contracts and zero lottery picks. This allowed them to sign Millsap. Unfortunately the new group didn't get over the hump and they never saw a return for Horford or Millsap.
My proposed deal is on the extreme end of things but a top 3 draft pick(in a loaded draft) isn't a terrible way to kickstart a new era. I don't believe the Raptors can land great value for Lowry at 32 years old. As far as Derozan goes the Raptors would be lucky to receive anything close to what the Bulls got in the Butler trade.
History says that NBA All-Stars with near max contracts(annual salary not years remaining) do not get traded for significant value. Either way this off-season should be very interesting if Toronto gets swept. Maybe they can replicate what Indiana pulled off in the George trade.
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I think if you'e the Raptors, you try to retool and maybe bring in a new coach and run it back for a year.
This is what I would do. Get a new head coach rather than blow it up.
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I can’t see Ujiri giving up on this deep, talented regular season winner that he has created..not in the Toronto market where they are entertained sufficiently by winning and hanging ANY banner, even division titles.
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I can’t see Ujiri giving up on this deep, talented regular season winner that he has created..not in the Toronto market where they are entertained sufficiently by winning and hanging ANY banner, even division titles.
I'm questioning whether it's actually true that the Toronto fanbase is going to continue to be entertained by this team when the team has been so thoroughly trounced year after year, regardless of its regular season performance.
I often think that us Boston fans tend to underestimate the extent to which other fanbases can find satisfaction in teams that are competitive and entertaining but that cannot contend for a title.
Nonetheless, I think even small market fanbases can get sick of watching the same core group achieve the same result after five or six years. Especially if that result involves the team consistently underperforming in the playoffs compared to the regular season.
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I think if you'e the Raptors, you try to retool and maybe bring in a new coach (although I generally hate the "just fire the coach, that's the answer" mentality) and run it back for a year. After that, Ibaka and Lowry will both be on expirings which should have some value and Derozan will only be 29 and still in his prime, so he'll be movable.
What I'm saying is I think they can get more for their biggest pieces next season.
I think it's entirely possible they fire Casey since it's easier to fire your coach than trade your stars.
That would be a bad idea, in my opinion, but they may just do that.
To me, they already tried to "retool." That's what this year was supposed to be about. This was supposed to be their culture reset. Their youth movement. A deep team that shared the ball and took more threes.
That has not translated to improved play in the post-season. As soon as the playoffs started, once again, their regular season numbers meant nothing and they started playing like a middle of the road team, capable of winning a series or two but not especially better than any other team in the crush of lower seeded teams.
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oh .....if Cavs finish em off .......the coach is history
Budhouisen might get that job .
Coach is nice dude , but he isn't the brightest at kepi g up or ahead of what the other coach is doing.
Yean ,.....his gig maybe up unl ss Raptors win a title ...i figure he is gone ....maybe the GM too...paid Ibaka all that money ....Ibaka sucks oranges.
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If this follows the same pattern as all the other jinx threads on here... the Raptors will now probably go on to win the series and the next 4 games :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Easy solution....tell Drake to stop rooting for them. He's such a clown and probably the biggest jinx they have.
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I can’t see Ujiri giving up on this deep, talented regular season winner that he has created..not in the Toronto market where they are entertained sufficiently by winning and hanging ANY banner, even division titles.
I'm questioning whether it's actually true that the Toronto fanbase is going to continue to be entertained by this team when the team has been so thoroughly trounced year after year, regardless of its regular season performance.
I often think that us Boston fans tend to underestimate the extent to which other fanbases can find satisfaction in teams that are competitive and entertaining but that cannot contend for a title.
Nonetheless, I think even small market fanbases can get sick of watching the same core group achieve the same result after five or six years. Especially if that result involves the team consistently underperforming in the playoffs compared to the regular season.
Toronto LOVES Ujiri, hell all of Canada loves Ujiri.
The guy is a golden boy, and while he has no hardware to show for his work, he pretty much has carte blanche with that franchise and Canada’s team’s fan base, which is the whole country.
I can’t see him dismantling his work anytime soon, but if he’s taking notice of the new powers rising in the East, he may, OR he may think that the future is ours and the Sixers and think his best chance is this year or next year.
If Ujiri gets the Knicks job, I think they clean house. If not, I think Ujiri stays the course.
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What about something like this
DeRozan, Valanciunas, Anunoby
For
Leonard, Gasol, Mills
Various other players and picks could be included. Raptors get a legit star though maybe just a rental and the Spurs get a lesser player but with far more long term certainty while picking up a younger center and a nice wing prospect. This trade seems like a pretty decent move for both teams given their current state of affairs
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Raptor fans/players be like "At least LeBron will be leaving the east next year." after falling 0-2.
But then Kyrie and Gordon Hayward will be in the East next year. ;D ;D ;D
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What about something like this
DeRozan, Valanciunas, Anunoby
For
Leonard, Gasol, Mills
Various other players and picks could be included. Raptors get a legit star though maybe just a rental and the Spurs get a lesser player but with far more long term certainty while picking up a younger center and a nice wing prospect. This trade seems like a pretty decent move for both teams given their current state of affairs
Do you reckon Toronto would keep Lowry if they made this move? That would be some insane level fireworks
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Toronto Trades
Kyle Lowry
Valanciunas
Milwaukee Trades
Eric Bledsoe
John Henson
Tony Snell
Future First Round Pick (two years after pick to Phoenix conveys)
Milwaukee gets back a significantly better version of Bledsoe and finally a real starting Center. Toronto breaks up those contracts and gets a pick. Maybe Bledsoe can even redeem some of his trade value and be flipped down the road.
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I'm gonna come clean. I'm mad at the Raptors.
I want somebody to beat LeBron. I hate that the Cavs can half or quarter butt-cheek their way through a season and still make the Finals because they have LeBron and guys like Jeff Green or J.R. Smith will remember how to play for a game or two in a series.
The Raptors somehow suckered me into thinking they were actually as good as their record and their point differential. Me, dummy.
So, as retribution, and because I think it's what would be best for their fans, the franchise, and the players involved, I think they should blow it up.
Let's help them!
It's hard to figure out how they could trade Lowry, who is 30+ and making a ton of money, or Derozan, who is nearing 30 and also making a ton of money. Ibaka seems nigh untradeable. Valanciunas has questionable trade value, though he's still young.
But let's try. So give me your best ideas for how the Raps can trade away Lowry, Derozan, and Valanciunas. Bonus points if you can figure out a reasonable Ibaka trade, though honestly I think he's just dead weight (a "clattering boneyard" as Bruce Arthur brilliantly put it).
I want to see the Raptors enter next year with a roster that no longer includes Lowry or Derozan. Ideally they should be featuring their young bench mob as their future. These trades needn't be aimed at allowing them to stay relevant. That ship has sailed. It's time for a true reset in Toronto.
VanVleet, Wright, OG, Siakam, Poeltl ---> That's the Raptors core. Everybody else can go.
The 6ers panic trading for Lowry after missing out on LeBron and watching the Kawhi situation resolve itself without their consideration makes too much sense really. One of the few teams w/ need and cap space to just take the contract. Maybe McConnell, Luwau and a heavily protected pick?
Though I imagine they'd be awfully hesitant to deal their current playoff MVP :laugh:
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What about something like this
DeRozan, Valanciunas, Anunoby
For
Leonard, Gasol, Mills
Various other players and picks could be included. Raptors get a legit star though maybe just a rental and the Spurs get a lesser player but with far more long term certainty while picking up a younger center and a nice wing prospect. This trade seems like a pretty decent move for both teams given their current state of affairs
Do you reckon Toronto would keep Lowry if they made this move? That would be some insane level fireworks
there is a negative chance the Spurs do anything involving a Derozan for Kawhi trade.
If they trade Kawhi, they're doing it for young players and lottery picks. Pop isn't going to stick around to hope that one more year of Manu and Parker can mesh with a zero calorie version of Kawhi's game in the West.
Derozan's best hope is that Paul George some how spurns the Lakers and new Laker LeBron some how sees enough value in DeMar to implore the team to get him.
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What about something like this
DeRozan, Valanciunas, Anunoby
For
Leonard, Gasol, Mills
Various other players and picks could be included. Raptors get a legit star though maybe just a rental and the Spurs get a lesser player but with far more long term certainty while picking up a younger center and a nice wing prospect. This trade seems like a pretty decent move for both teams given their current state of affairs
Do you reckon Toronto would keep Lowry if they made this move? That would be some insane level fireworks
there is a negative chance the Spurs do anything involving a Derozan for Kawhi trade.
If they trade Kawhi, they're doing it for young players and lottery picks. Pop isn't going to stick around to hope that one more year of Manu and Parker can mesh with a zero calorie version of Kawhi's game in the West.
Derozan's best hope is that Paul George some how spurns the Lakers and new Laker LeBron some how sees enough value in DeMar to implore the team to get him.
Couldn't agree more. The Raptors will struggle to get any significant value for DeRozan unless he is being added to a group of All-Stars. I really don't understand why he never put in the work to become a better 3 point shooter. He took more shots this year but the improvement was minimal at best. It certainly hasn't translated to the playoffs.
Look at Jaylen Brown as a comparison. He shot 29% from the college 3. Two years later he is nearly a 40% three point shooter in the NBA. It all boils down to putting in the work.
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What about something like this
DeRozan, Valanciunas, Anunoby
For
Leonard, Gasol, Mills
Various other players and picks could be included. Raptors get a legit star though maybe just a rental and the Spurs get a lesser player but with far more long term certainty while picking up a younger center and a nice wing prospect. This trade seems like a pretty decent move for both teams given their current state of affairs
Do you reckon Toronto would keep Lowry if they made this move? That would be some insane level fireworks
there is a negative chance the Spurs do anything involving a Derozan for Kawhi trade.
If they trade Kawhi, they're doing it for young players and lottery picks. Pop isn't going to stick around to hope that one more year of Manu and Parker can mesh with a zero calorie version of Kawhi's game in the West.
Derozan's best hope is that Paul George some how spurns the Lakers and new Laker LeBron some how sees enough value in DeMar to implore the team to get him.
I still believe Lakers sign LeBron and CP3 and then trade Ball, Ingram and maybe even Kuzma for a third star. Fill out roster with ring chasers and take your shot at GSW for the privilege to lose to the Celtics.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8yd2o9a
I got bored on Trade Machine and made this mess of a trade, lol.
I don't know if any team agrees, but it would be some fun fireworks, which this thread is basically about.
Moving Ibaka is nigh on impossible
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Valanciunas has probably been the most frustrating player on the Raptors so far.
In Game 1, he MISSED two easy tip-ins at the end, either could have won TOR the game.
Then last night, it felt like he missed a ton of bunnies in the 2nd half that could have made the difference at the end.
He's a solid player but boy this series could have been so much more different if he just had one successful tip-in at Game 1.
But on a side note... HAPPY BIRTHDAY VALANCIUNAS! ;D
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That sweep did nothing but hurt the value of DeRozan in the trade market. His scoring efficiency and PER 36 averages all dropped below regular season averages for the 4th straight postseason. To put things in perspective, Marcus Smart has a nearly identical career TS% in the playoffs.
If you are a GM where would DeMar fit into your plans? Bringing him in as #1 scoring option wont work if you want to win playoff games. His inability to move without the ball also makes him a non-factor as a complementary piece. On top of that he is a mediocre team defender. Doesn't that description sound just like Carmelo Anthony?
What might get lost in all of this is the fact that Kyle Lowry had a great postseason. There should be multiple playoff suitors on the trade market. Minnesota seems like an ideal fit.
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That sweep did nothing but hurt the value of DeRozan in the trade market. His scoring efficiency and PER 36 averages all dropped below regular season averages for the 4th straight postseason. To put things in perspective, Marcus Smart has a nearly identical career TS% in the playoffs.
If you are a GM where would DeMar fit into your plans? Bringing him in as #1 scoring option wont work if you want to win playoff games. His inability to move without the ball also makes him a non-factor as a complementary piece. On top of that he is a mediocre team defender. Doesn't that description sound just like Carmelo Anthony?
What might get lost in all of this is the fact that Kyle Lowry had a great postseason. There should be multiple playoff suitors on the trade market. Minnesota seems like an ideal fit.
Don't disagree about Lowry but you can't go 2-7 in an elimination game is youre a "star" or "superstar."
1. The shooting percentage is low enough. But 2. You need to take more than 7 shots especially when you co-pilot has been ejected.
Derozan is good but like you mention he can't be a teams number one option. Where does he fit in todays NBA if hes a shooting guard that can't shoot 3 pointers? He was 0-13 in his last 5 post season games. Sure he is a legit scorer, but who is going to make a trade for him when he can't stretch the floor as a 2-guard?
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That sweep did nothing but hurt the value of DeRozan in the trade market. His scoring efficiency and PER 36 averages all dropped below regular season averages for the 4th straight postseason. To put things in perspective, Marcus Smart has a nearly identical career TS% in the playoffs.
If you are a GM where would DeMar fit into your plans? Bringing him in as #1 scoring option wont work if you want to win playoff games. His inability to move without the ball also makes him a non-factor as a complementary piece. On top of that he is a mediocre team defender. Doesn't that description sound just like Carmelo Anthony?
What might get lost in all of this is the fact that Kyle Lowry had a great postseason. There should be multiple playoff suitors on the trade market. Minnesota seems like an ideal fit.
Don't disagree about Lowry but you can't go 2-7 in an elimination game is youre a "star" or "superstar."
1. The shooting percentage is low enough. But 2. You need to take more than 7 shots especially when you co-pilot has been ejected.
Derozan is good but like you mention he can't be a teams number one option. Where does he fit in todays NBA if hes a shooting guard that can't shoot 3 pointers? He was 0-13 in his last 5 post season games. Sure he is a legit scorer, but who is going to make a trade for him when he can't stretch the floor as a 2-guard?
DeRozan would actually be an interesting playing next to James. If James opted in (or re-signed) maybe something like Clarkson, Smith, BKN for DeRozan. Cleveland would be pretty interesting going forward with Hill, Korver, DeRozan, James, Love with a bench of Hood, Thompson, Nance, Osman, and whichever vets they added. In that role DeRozan is a 2nd or 3rd offensive option and the Cavs can get away with his lesser shooting with Hill, Korver, and Love being the other starters.
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That sweep did nothing but hurt the value of DeRozan in the trade market. His scoring efficiency and PER 36 averages all dropped below regular season averages for the 4th straight postseason. To put things in perspective, Marcus Smart has a nearly identical career TS% in the playoffs.
If you are a GM where would DeMar fit into your plans? Bringing him in as #1 scoring option wont work if you want to win playoff games. His inability to move without the ball also makes him a non-factor as a complementary piece. On top of that he is a mediocre team defender. Doesn't that description sound just like Carmelo Anthony?
What might get lost in all of this is the fact that Kyle Lowry had a great postseason. There should be multiple playoff suitors on the trade market. Minnesota seems like an ideal fit.
Don't disagree about Lowry but you can't go 2-7 in an elimination game is youre a "star" or "superstar."
1. The shooting percentage is low enough. But 2. You need to take more than 7 shots especially when you co-pilot has been ejected.
Derozan is good but like you mention he can't be a teams number one option. Where does he fit in todays NBA if hes a shooting guard that can't shoot 3 pointers? He was 0-13 in his last 5 post season games. Sure he is a legit scorer, but who is going to make a trade for him when he can't stretch the floor as a 2-guard?
DeRozan would actually be an interesting playing next to James. If James opted in (or re-signed) maybe something like Clarkson, Smith, BKN for DeRozan. Cleveland would be pretty interesting going forward with Hill, Korver, DeRozan, James, Love with a bench of Hood, Thompson, Nance, Osman, and whichever vets they added. In that role DeRozan is a 2nd or 3rd offensive option and the Cavs can get away with his lesser shooting with Hill, Korver, and Love being the other starters.
As a Celtic, I'd love to see that Cleveland lineup for years and years. To see that they used the BKN pick (Kyrie) for dumping bad salaries and a non-spacer next to LeBron - exquisite.
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If they want to blow it up they need to trade DeRozen, he has the most value and at this point his flaws are really glaring.
The Cavs guard and help off him like he's Rondo for long stretches of the game, and its killing the Raptors offense. During the season he took and made enough 3s to punish that and was also more of a ball mover. All that hard work just vanished under playoff pressure.
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nevermind
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That sweep did nothing but hurt the value of DeRozan in the trade market. His scoring efficiency and PER 36 averages all dropped below regular season averages for the 4th straight postseason. To put things in perspective, Marcus Smart has a nearly identical career TS% in the playoffs.
If you are a GM where would DeMar fit into your plans? Bringing him in as #1 scoring option wont work if you want to win playoff games. His inability to move without the ball also makes him a non-factor as a complementary piece. On top of that he is a mediocre team defender. Doesn't that description sound just like Carmelo Anthony?
What might get lost in all of this is the fact that Kyle Lowry had a great postseason. There should be multiple playoff suitors on the trade market. Minnesota seems like an ideal fit.
Don't disagree about Lowry but you can't go 2-7 in an elimination game is youre a "star" or "superstar."
1. The shooting percentage is low enough. But 2. You need to take more than 7 shots especially when you co-pilot has been ejected.
Derozan is good but like you mention he can't be a teams number one option. Where does he fit in todays NBA if hes a shooting guard that can't shoot 3 pointers? He was 0-13 in his last 5 post season games. Sure he is a legit scorer, but who is going to make a trade for him when he can't stretch the floor as a 2-guard?
DeRozan would actually be an interesting playing next to James. If James opted in (or re-signed) maybe something like Clarkson, Smith, BKN for DeRozan. Cleveland would be pretty interesting going forward with Hill, Korver, DeRozan, James, Love with a bench of Hood, Thompson, Nance, Osman, and whichever vets they added. In that role DeRozan is a 2nd or 3rd offensive option and the Cavs can get away with his lesser shooting with Hill, Korver, and Love being the other starters.
As a Celtic, I'd love to see that Cleveland lineup for years and years. To see that they used the BKN pick (Kyrie) for dumping bad salaries and a non-spacer next to LeBron - exquisite.
Yeah that's my problem with this trade for Cleveland. Gives the Cavs an enormous scoring punch with James, Derozan, and Love... But Derozan's inability to space the floor hurts James as they'd clog the lane.
A more logical trade to me:
Cavs trade Clarkson, Smith, Brook pick to Toronto
Derozan to Portland
CJ and Zach Collins to Cleveland.
Leaves Cavs with Hill/CJ/Korver/James/Love with Thompson, Nance, Osman, resigned Hood off the bench. Gives James a lethal floor spreading option who loves the jump shot in CJ.
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Blow them up you say? LBJ says, "Problem solved"!
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/368/746/450.jpg)
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Also the fact that not only is DeRozen killing the spacing and offensive flow of the Raptors, but defensively he's targeted like he's Marco Bellini.
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Blow them up you say? LBJ says, "Problem solved"!
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/368/746/450.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GMlHh4l.png)Also the fact that not only is DeRozen killing the spacing and offensive flow of the Raptors, but defensively he's targeted like he's Marco Bellini.
He really needs to work on improving his jump shot, same goes for Simmons.
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That sweep did nothing but hurt the value of DeRozan in the trade market. His scoring efficiency and PER 36 averages all dropped below regular season averages for the 4th straight postseason. To put things in perspective, Marcus Smart has a nearly identical career TS% in the playoffs.
If you are a GM where would DeMar fit into your plans? Bringing him in as #1 scoring option wont work if you want to win playoff games. His inability to move without the ball also makes him a non-factor as a complementary piece. On top of that he is a mediocre team defender. Doesn't that description sound just like Carmelo Anthony?
What might get lost in all of this is the fact that Kyle Lowry had a great postseason. There should be multiple playoff suitors on the trade market. Minnesota seems like an ideal fit.
Don't disagree about Lowry but you can't go 2-7 in an elimination game is youre a "star" or "superstar."
1. The shooting percentage is low enough. But 2. You need to take more than 7 shots especially when you co-pilot has been ejected.
Derozan is good but like you mention he can't be a teams number one option. Where does he fit in todays NBA if hes a shooting guard that can't shoot 3 pointers? He was 0-13 in his last 5 post season games. Sure he is a legit scorer, but who is going to make a trade for him when he can't stretch the floor as a 2-guard?
DeRozan would actually be an interesting playing next to James. If James opted in (or re-signed) maybe something like Clarkson, Smith, BKN for DeRozan. Cleveland would be pretty interesting going forward with Hill, Korver, DeRozan, James, Love with a bench of Hood, Thompson, Nance, Osman, and whichever vets they added. In that role DeRozan is a 2nd or 3rd offensive option and the Cavs can get away with his lesser shooting with Hill, Korver, and Love being the other starters.
As a Celtic, I'd love to see that Cleveland lineup for years and years. To see that they used the BKN pick (Kyrie) for dumping bad salaries and a non-spacer next to LeBron - exquisite.
Yeah that's my problem with this trade for Cleveland. Gives the Cavs an enormous scoring punch with James, Derozan, and Love... But Derozan's inability to space the floor hurts James as they'd clog the lane.
A more logical trade to me:
Cavs trade Clarkson, Smith, Brook pick to Toronto
Derozan to Portland
CJ and Zach Collins to Cleveland.
Leaves Cavs with Hill/CJ/Korver/James/Love with Thompson, Nance, Osman, resigned Hood off the bench. Gives James a lethal floor spreading option who loves the jump shot in CJ.
They are not gonna resign Hood... He's already going to get suspended...
According to The Athletic's Jason Lloyd, Cleveland coach Tyronn Lue attempted to substitute Hood in for LeBron James with a 30-point lead with seven minutes, 38 seconds to play. However, the fourth-year player refused to enter the game, angering his teammates.
"This is the playoffs," an anonymous Cleveland player said. "We're trying to win a championship. This isn't about you."
Hood was the only guy not to play in Game 4.
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DeRozen is a good shooter though, he's just not a good 3 point shooter. Very similar to KG, and even Horford when he was younger.
Just has to commit to bombing away no matter what and becoming a good 3 point shooter. That's hard, especially when he's literally said for 4 years or more that "he doesn't need 3s". He finally tried this season but clearly he doesn't believe its his shot hence he stopped shooting them quickly when under duress.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
I'd love that Toronto team. DeRozan as a Laker would be weird.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
I'd love that Toronto team. DeRozan as a Laker would be weird.
I'm imagining the Lakers trading for Derozan then signing Paul George. I bet Derozan would be thrilled to play in LA given that he played for USC and idolizes Kobe.
After that they'd still have space for another big contract. Maybe Deandre opts out and signs with the Lakers?
Lonzo - Derozan - George - Randle - Deandre
That would be an interesting team.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
I'd love that Toronto team. DeRozan as a Laker would be weird.
I'm imagining the Lakers trading for Derozan then signing Paul George. I bet Derozan would be thrilled to play in LA given that he played for USC and idolizes Kobe.
After that they'd still have space for another big contract. Maybe Deandre opts out and signs with the Lakers?
Lonzo - Derozan - George - Randle - Deandre
That would be an interesting team.
That is a lot to pay for someone who seriously wilted under pressure in the playoffs.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
I'd love that Toronto team. DeRozan as a Laker would be weird.
I'm imagining the Lakers trading for Derozan then signing Paul George. I bet Derozan would be thrilled to play in LA given that he played for USC and idolizes Kobe.
After that they'd still have space for another big contract. Maybe Deandre opts out and signs with the Lakers?
Lonzo - Derozan - George - Randle - Deandre
That would be an interesting team.
That is a lot to pay for someone who seriously wilted under pressure in the playoffs.
Sure, but I think the Lakers are a team that is probably feeling a lot of pressure to be good and relevant again.
They could probably talk themselves into Derozan being good on a team where he's not the only high usage scoring option, too.
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I could see the Lakers using cap space and lesser pieces on DeRozen, I can't imagine them shipping out either of their blue chip prospects for him.
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I could see the Lakers using cap space and lesser pieces on DeRozen, I can't imagine them shipping out either of their blue chip prospects for him.
Yea no way. Toronto would need the Lakers way more than vice versa in this scenario. Maybe a s/t with Randle, hart, and a pick I could see? But something tells me the Lakers view Ingram, whether rightly or wrongly, close to how we view Brown/Tatum.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
Lakes tank for 5 years just to have DeRozan - epic.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
Lakes tank for 5 years just to have DeRozan - epic.
Pretty much. It's going to take a really desperate GM to part ways with significant assets for Derozan. Teams are leaning heavily on advanced metrics when building their team. Derozan lacks the intangibles that could make you ignore his poor efficiency, mediocre defense, and lack of off-ball movement. In many ways he is the antithesis of Marcus Smart.
As an NBA fan I would like to see Derozan land on his feet in a new destination, somewhere in the Western Conference. I've been critical but it would be a great story to see him develop into a consistent three point shooter. At this point he needs to understand that it's a necessary ingredient in the modern NBA.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
Lakes tank for 5 years just to have DeRozan - epic.
Yeah, I'd kind of love to see the Lakers wiff on the big free agent targets and then decide to go this route.
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either PG3 and or Rozen is not putting Lakers in any contention in the West . They would be a playoff team . ....
Lakers are only relevant if they have Lebron .
otherwise at best hey are stuck mid stream playoff team.
PG3 , Mello , Derozen would keep them 5-8 seed forever.
Lakers should keep what they got and ignore all these has beens, low energy no defense , fringe stars .
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I think they should just keep the same team for a year or 2. There are worse things than being a mid tier playoff team. All the contracts come off the books in 2 years and they can start over.
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I think they should just keep the same team for a year or 2. There are worse things than being a mid tier playoff team. All the contracts come off the books in 2 years and they can start over.
That's sort of what I was saying earlier. A year from now, Ibaka and Lowry will be on expiring contracts that will have some value in the newly stable-ish cap situation. Toronto can probably get more for them then than they can now and Derozan will be just as movable (for whatever that's worth).
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
Lakes tank for 5 years just to have DeRozan - epic.
Pretty much. It's going to take a really desperate GM to part ways with significant assets for Derozan. Teams are leaning heavily on advanced metrics when building their team. Derozan lacks the intangibles that could make you ignore his poor efficiency, mediocre defense, and lack of off-ball movement. In many ways he is the antithesis of Marcus Smart.
As an NBA fan I would like to see Derozan land on his feet in a new destination, somewhere in the Western Conference. I've been critical but it would be a great story to see him develop into a consistent three point shooter. At this point he needs to understand that it's a necessary ingredient in the modern NBA.
Offensively, that's the last step for him, imo, because as of right now if you put a taller guy on him and, as a result, take away his post game, he's really not the same player, which is kind of surprising for a dude who has studied and emulated many facets of Kobe's game as you'd think that he'd know the rules of the, well, game, by now, in that in terms of your defender, same size and smaller you take him to the post, whereas in the case of bigger/taller guys you work more without the ball as you'll get more separation on picks/screens owing to the size discrepancy, right? Pretty basic stuff. I think.
He should really watch the episode of Detail dedicated to the 2009 Western Conference Finals, imo. Has anyone else watched that program, btw? I've seen an episode and a half, at best, and it's okay, imo, but yeah, just wondering.
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Ntilikina + Hardaway + L. Thomas + #9 for Lowry + Powell + Malachi
Deng + Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan
Lakes tank for 5 years just to have DeRozan - epic.
Well, they got Lonzo, who garners media and fan attention as though he were already a superstar, so I'm sure they feel good about that.
But seriously, I think Ingram + Kuzma for Derozan is a great swap for the Lakers. I don't think either of those guys is an average starter right now, and I don't think much of their potential. Getting out of Deng's contract is an added bonus.
Derozan has flaws but he's a top 15-20 player nonetheless.
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A+ thread, latest DeRozan/Lowry rumors posted here reminded me of this thread
ready to see them rebuild
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We can't blow up the raptors, we aren't the gm
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What if Lebron decides he wants to take his brand international?
James can opt in and Toronto can trade Cleveland Ibaka and Valanciunas to make it work. Lowry, Derozan, James, Siakam, Poeltl as the starting 5.