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Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Patriots / Football => Topic started by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 06:46:14 PM

Title: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 06:46:14 PM
So 30 years from now if you had God like ability and could have every player in the history of the world at peak ability who wins this game.....the players/coaches in the Patriots Hall of Fame or the players/coaches in the actual Hall of Fame and if they are in the Patriots Hall of Fame the other team can't have them?

The Pats will have the best coach, best QB, best TEs, best kickers, best guard.  And pro bowlers and Hall of Famers at virtually every position.

I don't see how they lose that.

Ok....let's go a little more apples to apples. What if it's just Patriots vs field just in the salary cap era? Now who wins?

I got Pats by 10 at Gillette, and by 4 on a neutral field

I should clarify the Pats get the player at the level he played for them. They don't get to pick Junior Seau and get him when he was great, when he only played a couple years for them at the end
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Granath on January 16, 2016, 07:07:24 PM
Talk about homerism...

Back in reality, the Steelers beat the Patriots straight up and it probably isn't even close. While the Patriots can claim an advantage in QB, TE, K and perhaps a couple of other positions (as for guard, Alan Faneca can match up against John Hannah), the Patriots probably lose at virtually every defensive position matched against the Steelers.

You can take almost any other position and the Steelers all time team would stomp the Patriots, specially in depth. Take for instance RB. Who are the Patriots going to throw out there? Jim Nance and Mosi Tatupu? You want to match those guys against Harris and Bettis? At WR the Patriots can send out Moss, Fryar, Brown and Morgan but that pales in comparison to Swann, Stallworth, Brown and Ward. It's like this in almost every position and that's just against the Steelers. It'd be easy to do the same thing with the Cowboys, Packers and 49ers.

Against the field? The NFL all-time team would win by 50.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
LOL.

Look, I know that you Bostonians have been spoiled silly since 2000 (Celtics from 2007-13, Patriots success, Bruins success, Red Sox, etc, etc).....

But time to wake up.

My Washington Redskins (as well as quite a few other NFL teams) have quite a few honorable additions as well.

Stop sipping the Kool-Aid.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:20:14 PM
Wait wait wait. Did I just read Alan Faneca would match up equal with John Hannah?  Ok. Now that we've gotten past comedy hour I have a serious question. What JV coach and what JV quarterback would the Steelers trot out there?

John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

Bettis? Did we just cite Bettis?  The Pats routinely dealt with far better RBs and beat them.

We saw rookie Brady beat a Rams team with Marshall Faulk on it and Brady's running back in that was JR Redmon and his TE was Jermaine Wiggins.

Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:21:58 PM
The only reason this is even close is because the Pats were horrid (with one good 1985 year) until Parcells got here.

Honestly the Pats backups (Bledsoe and Grogan) vs Peyton Manning or Brett Farve....I'm just not worried. Not at all.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:26:38 PM
Also we get to change the rules back to the way they were before the NFL started changing rules to help Peyton Manning at the expense of the Patriots.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 07:30:29 PM
Can we deflate balls, too ;D :)  J/K

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm4RusESNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm4RusESNU)
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:32:18 PM
No but you can take HGH
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Granath on January 16, 2016, 07:32:40 PM
Wait wait wait. Did I just read Alan Faneca would match up equal with John Hannah?  Ok. Now that we've gotten past comedy hour I have a serious question. What JV coach and what JV quarterback would the Steelers trot out there?

John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

Bettis? Did we just cite Bettis?  The Pats routinely dealt with far better RBs and beat them.

We saw rookie Brady beat a Rams team with Marshall Faulk on it and Brady's running back in that was JR Redmon and his TE was Jermaine Wiggins.

Seriously dude, you're insane or trolling. Either way have fun playing with yourself.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 07:35:24 PM
No but you can take HGH

LOL!

I seriously hope Peyton meets NE in the playoffs...I really do.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:35:37 PM
I guess you don't watch football.

Remember when Peyton Manning came to Gillette with multiple pro bowl receivers and running backs?

Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark (pro bowler), Edgerine James, Marcus Pollard (very competent TE but never a pro bowler) and two pro bowl OLs to protect him (Jeff Saturday, Tarik Glenn)?  How'd that go? 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:35:51 PM
No but you can take HGH

LOL!

I seriously hope Peyton meets NE in the playoffs...I really do.
So do we.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:37:51 PM
After this game I'm gonna go watch the Celtics...which is another team which if they had a Hall of Fame would beat the field.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 07:43:26 PM
I can finally see why Lakers fans think WE'RE crazy, LOL.

I guess ALL fan bases have a fringe.

You are PRICELESS, eja - don't let anyone tell you differently.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: csfansince60s on January 16, 2016, 07:44:44 PM
Talk about homerism...

Back in reality, the Steelers beat the Patriots straight up and it probably isn't even close. While the Patriots can claim an advantage in QB, TE, K and perhaps a couple of other positions (as for guard, Alan Faneca can match up against John Hannah), the Patriots probably lose at virtually every defensive position matched against the Steelers.

You can take almost any other position and the Steelers all time team would stomp the Patriots, specially in depth. Take for instance RB. Who are the Patriots going to throw out there? Jim Nance and Mosi Tatupu? You want to match those guys against Harris and Bettis? At WR the Patriots can send out Moss, Fryar, Brown and Morgan but that pales in comparison to Swann, Stallworth, Brown and Ward. It's like this in almost every position and that's just against the Steelers. It'd be easy to do the same thing with the Cowboys, Packers and 49ers.

Against the field? The NFL all-time team would win by 50.

TP.....loved those Steeler teams.

And you think that the OP is homerism, Boston sports radio is 95% patriots/Red Sox, 3% Bs and maybe 2% our Cs. All day all the time, which is unfortunately reflective of the interest of fans around here.

The deification of some of these guys, Brady in particular is pretty sad.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:48:11 PM
I can finally see why Lakers fans think WE'RE crazy, LOL.

I guess ALL fan bases have a fringe.

You are PRICELESS, eja - don't let anyone tell you differently.
I am also right.

"Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, eh kid?" - Han Solo
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:51:12 PM
Tom Brady alone has more post season wins than about 22 entire franchises. And he probably passed some more teams tonight.

If Brady ever wants to be around the best players that ever played what he needs to do is skip his Hall of Fame enshrinement and have a ring cleaning party with his old teammates.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 07:51:45 PM
I can finally see why Lakers fans think WE'RE crazy, LOL.

I guess ALL fan bases have a fringe.

You are PRICELESS, eja - don't let anyone tell you differently.
I am also right.

"Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, eh kid?" - Han Solo

Yes, right crazy, lol.

If DEN gets a crack at NE and beats you all, I'll feel free to bump this thread.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 07:54:31 PM
Well the problem the Patriots now face is very familiar to them. Do they book the hotel rooms for the Super Bowl now in order to save money at the risk of losing the deposit?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 08:08:14 PM
The hilarious thing here is that here lately I can honestly see Tom B saying some of this same mess, lol..
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 08:17:45 PM
This is the only team where a 16-0 regular season = a horrid year.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: wdleehi on January 16, 2016, 08:29:15 PM
You don't want to hear this but the all time Giants would beat them. 


Take the pass rush that bothered the Pat offense so much and add LT. 


Heck, add any of the 80s lbers.  Giants have been average at best at lber since 2000.


All time 49ers are a nightmare. 

All time Packers.



All time team crushes all other teams.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: ssspence on January 16, 2016, 08:32:56 PM
You don't want to hear this but the all time Giants would beat them. 


Take the pass rush that bothered the Pat offense so much and add LT. 


Heck, add any of the 80s lbers.  Giants have been average at best at lber since 2000.


All time 49ers are a nightmare. 

All time Packers.



All time team crushes all other teams.

This. Nice run under Belichek. But football was good looooooong before the Pats ever were.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 16, 2016, 08:36:58 PM
So 30 years from now if you had God like ability and could have every player in the history of the world at peak ability who wins this game.....the players/coaches in the Patriots Hall of Fame or the players/coaches in the actual Hall of Fame and if they are in the Patriots Hall of Fame the other team can't have them?

The Pats will have the best coach, best QB, best TEs, best kickers, best guard.  And pro bowlers and Hall of Famers at virtually every position.

I don't see how they lose that.

Ok....let's go a little more apples to apples. What if it's just Patriots vs field just in the salary cap era? Now who wins?

I got Pats by 10 at Gillette, and by 4 on a neutral field

I should clarify the Pats get the player at the level he played for them. They don't get to pick Junior Seau and get him when he was great, when he only played a couple years for them at the end

Mike Haynes and Darrell Revis, too, yeah?

Hmmm.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 08:41:02 PM
You don't want to hear this but the all time Giants would beat them. 


Take the pass rush that bothered the Pat offense so much and add LT. 


Heck, add any of the 80s lbers.  Giants have been average at best at lber since 2000.


All time 49ers are a nightmare. 

All time Packers.



All time team crushes all other teams.
While I agree Bruce Armstrong would have a very difficult time with the all time Giants team I am still curious what second tier QB and coach the other team would have. It would be important and if this game comes down to the kickers the Pats win.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 08:43:22 PM
While it's true that LT was the best LB of the 80s (if not all time) the Pats had the 2nd best LB at the time (Tippet). 

Jamie Collins could end up in the same sentence when this is all done.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 16, 2016, 08:57:13 PM
Since the all-time teams available online are career-based, why don't you list the full roster of single-season greats in Patriots history? That way everyone can see that, say, the RB would be Curtis Martin. I think folks would be surprised at how many single-season elites the Pats would be featuring.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 08:59:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vCxodGSPa4
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 09:04:38 PM
Shaq was just a babe when the REAL DIESEL was on the tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCRJyl2iQ4
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:14:26 PM
So....to think this out.

All time teams.  Players with a reasonable chance at the Patriots Hall of Fame if I get my way.


WRs....Edelmen, Moss, Brown, Morgan, Cappelletti.  With Brady throwing to that...I'll take that over anyone.

TEs....Gronk, Ben Coates.  Ok....this is pretty much a done deal already.

QB....The GOAT

RB...unfortunately all I have to pick from is Sam Cunningham. It would be nice if I could have Curtis Martin or Corey Dillon but I likely can't. Robert Edwards would have been great but God took his knee. I have doubts Dion Lewis ends up in the Pats Hall, however I do think I'll get Kevin Faulk.

OL....Bruce Armstrong, Hannah, Koppen, Logan Mankins, Matt Light with Bryan Stork in there some day and possibly Vollmer.    All these players, expect Light were basically the best at their position when they played.

DL....Ok...things maybe get interesting here.  I'm looking in the directions of Richard Sherman, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Mcginnest, Chandler Jones, Ninkovic, and Tippet.

LBs....Bruchi, Hightower, Jamie Collins, Ted Johnson, Steve Nelson, Vrabel

DBs...also interesting.....Haynes, Law, Rodney, Lawyer Milloy, McCourty, Butler

K...the best kicker of all time, and like the 10th best

special teams....Slater and Larry Izzo

coach....the best of all time

cheerleaders...no apologies here.

weirdo groupies...those Patriot guys that fire those muskets.

This team wins hands down.  Generally the talent on the field evens out, except the Pats bring a dominant coach, QB, and TE that are more like video game players or something.

Your best shot to defeat this is to bring Tim Tebow from that year God personally blessed him.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 09:20:29 PM
lol.

What about Earl?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7DKVvw6XYA

Surely "HE" could partake in the farce called the Patriots HOF.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:22:34 PM
Patriots fans just look at these other players and sorta snicker a little and then say stuff like "Earl who?"
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 09:29:03 PM
LOL

Eja - please don't ever change.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:33:30 PM
LOL

Eja - please don't ever change.
Oh I won't stop saying things that demonstrate reality any time soon.

Hey do you think the Hall of Fame will eventually have an exhibit dedicated to all of Peyton Manning's commercials?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYPPNtYWQAQL3wk.jpg)

If you took the 2nd best player of all time and put him on massive amounts of steroids (forgiving the part where Jerry Rice was already on them) and then you took THAT player and put that player on massive amounts of steroids you'd start to have Brady....you'd maybe have Viniateri or something.

Superman wears Tom Brady pajamas. But his mom doesn't want him to because she thinks it's too much pressure to live up to.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:48:36 PM
That meme is inaccurate. He's 22-8 now
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 16, 2016, 09:48:59 PM
LOL

Eja - please don't ever change.
Oh I won't stop saying things that demonstrate reality any time soon.

Hey do you think the Hall of Fame will eventually have an exhibit dedicated to all of Peyton Manning's commercials?

Well, if DEN meets NE and beats them - I'm sure there'll be another one.

And that won't be so bad.

Maybe he'll tie Brady up in a chair and force him to watch it?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:55:18 PM
Brady  would say to Peyton "You will turn off the TV" and Peyton would say "I will turn off the TV" and then Peyton would turn off the TV.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 09:57:44 PM
Realistically at this point the only person comparable to Brady in the field of competition is Bobby Fisher in the field of chess.  Urban legend, whose ghost gave guys nightmares just by whispering his name years after he was way past his prime.  And that's about it.

He's going to his 5th AFC championship game in a row. How many did Dan Marino go to?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 10:02:09 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/quarterbacks-to-play-in-most-conference-championship-games-sports-chart-of-the-day-2013-1


But look at the date.  Troy Aikman has now played in less than half as many championship games as Tom Brady.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Cman on January 16, 2016, 10:13:20 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYPPNtYWQAQL3wk.jpg)

If you took the 2nd best player of all time and put him on massive amounts of steroids (forgiving the part where Jerry Rice was already on them) and then you took THAT player and put that player on massive amounts of steroids you'd start to have Brady....you'd maybe have Viniateri or something.

Superman wears Tom Brady pajamas. But his mom doesn't want him to because she thinks it's too much pressure to live up to.

eja, I love it all. But didn't you want to trade Brady for Matt Ryan and a couple first round picks a few years ago?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 16, 2016, 10:17:14 PM
When he got his wazoo handed to him by the Jets in Gillette because he played like a pop warner QB I definitely thought it was time to look into his value.

That's because at the time he wasn't winning Super Bowls. I'm a Patriots fan. Peyton Manning style regular season success counts for nothing here, and he went a decade between Super Bowl wins.

I was right then and I'm right now. Tom obviously heard me and it lighted a fire under him, so if you want to thank me I promise to be magnanimous.

That's the amazing thing about Tom. Despite all his success he has left a Super Bowl or two out there.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Cman on January 16, 2016, 10:28:19 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 16, 2016, 10:43:14 PM
Here's what I got out of this thread....

OP: I'm drunk and rambling

Thread: No kidding!

OP: No, no, I mean you're all witnesses.

Thread: To what, you urinating on yourself in public?

OP: Bah...Tom Brady's balls...I mean rings!  Ringsssss!

Thread: Yeah, you're drunk.

Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 16, 2016, 11:02:14 PM
Eja, try using single seasons. Who cares what other people will "let" you have, lol. Constructing the roster using single-seasons is a valid way to do an all-time team. It's just a different type of all-time team. Go for it. That way you get to have a truly sick roster. Like I mentioned, you get a CB duo of Haynes (pick any of his All-Pro seasons for the Pats) and Revis (pick last year). You get HOFer Curtis Martin as a Pro Bowl rookie for RB. Way more freedom, way more fun, way better roster.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ogaju on January 16, 2016, 11:10:55 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYPPNtYWQAQL3wk.jpg)

If you took the 2nd best player of all time and put him on massive amounts of steroids (forgiving the part where Jerry Rice was already on them) and then you took THAT player and put that player on massive amounts of steroids you'd start to have Brady....you'd maybe have Viniateri or something.

Superman wears Tom Brady pajamas. But his mom doesn't want him to because she thinks it's too much pressure to live up to.


eja, I love it all. But didn't you want to trade Brady for Matt Ryan and a couple first round picks a few years ago?

The seven teams he does not lead are

PATRIOTS

REDSKINS

GIANTS

COWBOYS

NINERS

PACKERS

RAIDERS
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 17, 2016, 08:13:27 AM
Here's what I got out of this thread....

OP: I'm drunk and rambling

Thread: No kidding!

OP: No, no, I mean you're all witnesses.

Thread: To what, you urinating on yourself in public?

OP: Bah...Tom Brady's balls...I mean rings!  Ringsssss!

Thread: Yeah, you're drunk.
This is what I got out of it.

OP....You all wish you were Patriots fans!

Thread...No we don't!

OP. Yeeessss yoooouuu doooo

Thread...Well of course we do, duh.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 17, 2016, 02:20:14 PM
QB - Tom Brady '07
HB - Corey Dillon '04
HB - Curtis Martin '95
FB - Jim Nance '66
WR - Randy Moss '07
WR - Wes Welker '11
WR - Stanley Morgan '79
WR - Terry Glenn '96
WR - Troy Brown '01
TE - Rob Gronkowski '11
TE - Ben Coates '94
TE - Russ Francis '78

G - John Hannah '80
G - Logan Mankins '10
G - Brian Waters '11
C - Jon Morris '66
T - Bruce Armstrong '96
T - Matt Light '07
T - Leon Gray '78
T - Brian Holloway '85

LB - Nick Buoniconti '66
LB - Andre Tippett '85
LB - Jerod Mayo '10
LB - Steve Nelson '80
LB - Tom Addison '61
DE - Richard Seymour '04
DE - Larry Eisenhauer '63
DE - Willie McGinest '96
DT - Houston Antwine '63
DT - Vince Wilfork '12

CB - Darrelle Revis '14
CB - Mike Haynes '76
CB - Ty Law '03
CB - Raymond Clayborn '85
S - Rodney Harrison '03
S - Lawyer Milloy '99

K - Adam Vinatieri '01
(or Stephen Gostowski '15?)
P - Rich Camarillo '83
PR - Irving Fryar '85
KR - Dave Meggett '96
Gunner - Matthew Slater '14
Miscellaneous - Gino Cappelletti '64

I'm sure there's a better version of that. I'm not a huge football fan. But still, that looks like the makings of a nearly-unbeatable all-time single-season team.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2016, 03:10:01 PM
John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

  I don't think you're old enough to realize what the Steelers defense would do to the Pats. If you're talking about Ty Law hitting someone in the mouth, consider the other side of the field. Brady's not very effective in games where he gets hit a lot, those guys would have him running from shadows by halftime.

  And, full disclosure, the Steelers are near the top of my "most hated franchises" list.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 17, 2016, 03:24:36 PM
John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

  I don't think you're old enough to realize what the Steelers defense would do to the Pats. If you're talking about Ty Law hitting someone in the mouth, consider the other side of the field. Brady's not very effective in games where he gets hit a lot, those guys would have him running from shadows by halftime.

  And, full disclosure, the Steelers are near the top of my "most hated franchises" list.
Overrated team that played in an era of what....25 teams or something? No salary cap? Going up against an OL of all pro bowlers and Ben Coates and Gronk and Brady and that team would have no idea what hit them. That defense never faced a player anything like Gronk, let alone the GOAT
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 17, 2016, 04:47:34 PM
Which franchises could put together a better offensive line from single-season peaks? Raiders, Cowboys, Steelers, Vikings, Rams, and...any others? Patriots all-time offensive line is arguably top 5, see above. Brady would be relatively well-protected.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2016, 06:09:50 PM
John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

  I don't think you're old enough to realize what the Steelers defense would do to the Pats. If you're talking about Ty Law hitting someone in the mouth, consider the other side of the field. Brady's not very effective in games where he gets hit a lot, those guys would have him running from shadows by halftime.

  And, full disclosure, the Steelers are near the top of my "most hated franchises" list.
Overrated team that played in an era of what....25 teams or something? No salary cap? Going up against an OL of all pro bowlers and Ben Coates and Gronk and Brady and that team would have no idea what hit them. That defense never faced a player anything like Gronk, let alone the GOAT

   I don't think there's any real takeaway from this thread beyond your liking the Patriots and don't know much about the history of the league. And, as an fyi, the "fewer teams and no salary cap" means that a) the talent was concentrated in the fewer teams and b) there wasn't the parity that comes with a salary cap.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2016, 06:11:08 PM
Which franchises could put together a better offensive line from single-season peaks? Raiders, Cowboys, Steelers, Vikings, Rams, and...any others? Patriots all-time offensive line is arguably top 5, see above. Brady would be relatively well-protected.

  Start with the Dolphins, with three 1000 yard rushers in one season.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 17, 2016, 07:31:07 PM
Which franchises could put together a better offensive line from single-season peaks? Raiders, Cowboys, Steelers, Vikings, Rams, and...any others? Patriots all-time offensive line is arguably top 5, see above. Brady would be relatively well-protected.

  Start with the Dolphins, with three 1000 yard rushers in one season.

Two teammates, you mean? But still, okay, granted. So that's six franchises with a better all-time OL. Is there a seventh?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 17, 2016, 07:56:07 PM
LOL.

Broncos-Patriots next week, boys and girls.

Time for the checks that eja have written in this thread to be cashed by his Patriots team.

My guess is that there is no money in the bank this time, for NE.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 17, 2016, 07:56:35 PM
Are u scurred, Eja ;D
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 17, 2016, 08:06:27 PM
Scared of the Broncos? God no. Brady has ended the legend of Peyton Manning about 7 times now. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 17, 2016, 08:18:01 PM
John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

  I don't think you're old enough to realize what the Steelers defense would do to the Pats. If you're talking about Ty Law hitting someone in the mouth, consider the other side of the field. Brady's not very effective in games where he gets hit a lot, those guys would have him running from shadows by halftime.

  And, full disclosure, the Steelers are near the top of my "most hated franchises" list.
Overrated team that played in an era of what....25 teams or something? No salary cap? Going up against an OL of all pro bowlers and Ben Coates and Gronk and Brady and that team would have no idea what hit them. That defense never faced a player anything like Gronk, let alone the GOAT

   I don't think there's any real takeaway from this thread beyond your liking the Patriots and don't know much about the history of the league. And, as an fyi, the "fewer teams and no salary cap" means that a) the talent was concentrated in the fewer teams and b) there wasn't the parity that comes with a salary cap.
So what that means is that there were the same number of Pro Bowlers but that Brady did more winning with guys like David Patten and Givens, against teams loaded with Pro Bowlers, like the Colts, than the Steelers ever did.

Give Brady a team full of Pro Bowlers like the Cowboys and Niners and whatnot and how many rings does Brady win? 13?


Hey I think I see a call coming into a phone booth over there. It's for you. It's the past.

Hey could you do me a favor and tell us all stories about how great Jim Taylor was when the league had virtually no black guys and had half as many teams and played like 10 games a year.

Or maybe we could hear about how great the league was back when Joe Namath made a Hall of Fame career on 50% passing and would have a cigarette and coffee for breakfast.

Maybe we could discuss how incredible the Steel Curtain was before the zone blitz was even invented.

Perhaps we could get into how today's Patriots would play in coverage back when the horse collar was legal and when you could play defense on a guy without being called for breathing on him.

We could discuss how incredibly good and athletic the league was back in the days of no black quarterbacks.

Please. Please tell me about the glorious history of the league before Tom Brady showed up and broke every record. It should be very interesting.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 17, 2016, 08:31:39 PM
A wise man once said, "don't argue with fools, because people from a distance can't tell who is who".

I find it humorous the number of posters that have been successfully trolled by one of the more notorious trolls here.

Job well done, eja.

Have a TP!
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 17, 2016, 08:45:22 PM
Saying "The Patriots are better than everyone else" isn't exactly trolling. It's like saying 2+2=4. Someday if a different player surpasses Brady then there you go.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: notthebowler on January 17, 2016, 08:50:02 PM
If I was a betting man, I'd wager that 30 years from now Patriots fans will look back on this generation much the same way Clevelanders look back at Jim Brown and his all-time greatness. Mourning 20 straight years of no playoff appearances and 47 different Pats' starting quarterbacks during that time.

You will recall fondly the era before the team relocated to Shreveport, LA and was renamed the Ducks. Then about 5 years after the relocation, Foxboro was given a new team which reclaimed the Patriots moniker. But things were never the same...the Patriots are the laughingstock of the league and every year college football fans sincerely ask "Could this year's SEC champions beat the Patriots?  I think they probably could."   ;)
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 18, 2016, 12:15:02 AM
John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

  I don't think you're old enough to realize what the Steelers defense would do to the Pats. If you're talking about Ty Law hitting someone in the mouth, consider the other side of the field. Brady's not very effective in games where he gets hit a lot, those guys would have him running from shadows by halftime.

  And, full disclosure, the Steelers are near the top of my "most hated franchises" list.
Overrated team that played in an era of what....25 teams or something? No salary cap? Going up against an OL of all pro bowlers and Ben Coates and Gronk and Brady and that team would have no idea what hit them. That defense never faced a player anything like Gronk, let alone the GOAT

   I don't think there's any real takeaway from this thread beyond your liking the Patriots and don't know much about the history of the league. And, as an fyi, the "fewer teams and no salary cap" means that a) the talent was concentrated in the fewer teams and b) there wasn't the parity that comes with a salary cap.
So what that means is that there were the same number of Pro Bowlers but that Brady did more winning with guys like David Patten and Givens, against teams loaded with Pro Bowlers, like the Colts, than the Steelers ever did.

Give Brady a team full of Pro Bowlers like the Cowboys and Niners and whatnot and how many rings does Brady win? 13?


Hey I think I see a call coming into a phone booth over there. It's for you. It's the past.

Hey could you do me a favor and tell us all stories about how great Jim Taylor was when the league had virtually no black guys and had half as many teams and played like 10 games a year.

Or maybe we could hear about how great the league was back when Joe Namath made a Hall of Fame career on 50% passing and would have a cigarette and coffee for breakfast.

Maybe we could discuss how incredible the Steel Curtain was before the zone blitz was even invented.

Perhaps we could get into how today's Patriots would play in coverage back when the horse collar was legal and when you could play defense on a guy without being called for breathing on him.

We could discuss how incredibly good and athletic the league was back in the days of no black quarterbacks.

Please. Please tell me about the glorious history of the league before Tom Brady showed up and broke every record. It should be very interesting.

  I doubt if you'd know whether it was interesting or not. I don't know what you're doing beyond throwing out some random phrases and pretending they mean something. The Steelers defensive players weren't that great because teams didn't play the zone blitz back then? That's just foolish, as is the ridiculous claim that the Pats defense would be much better in coverage if they played when horse collar tackles were legal. Seriously?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 18, 2016, 09:14:29 AM
John Stallworth and Lynn Swann? Wow. Just wow. So let me explain how that would go. Ty Law would hit Swan in the mouth and Rodney would knock pretty boy Stallworth into next Wednesday and if they go across the middle one of the many Pats LBs will end them.

  I don't think you're old enough to realize what the Steelers defense would do to the Pats. If you're talking about Ty Law hitting someone in the mouth, consider the other side of the field. Brady's not very effective in games where he gets hit a lot, those guys would have him running from shadows by halftime.

  And, full disclosure, the Steelers are near the top of my "most hated franchises" list.
Overrated team that played in an era of what....25 teams or something? No salary cap? Going up against an OL of all pro bowlers and Ben Coates and Gronk and Brady and that team would have no idea what hit them. That defense never faced a player anything like Gronk, let alone the GOAT

   I don't think there's any real takeaway from this thread beyond your liking the Patriots and don't know much about the history of the league. And, as an fyi, the "fewer teams and no salary cap" means that a) the talent was concentrated in the fewer teams and b) there wasn't the parity that comes with a salary cap.
So what that means is that there were the same number of Pro Bowlers but that Brady did more winning with guys like David Patten and Givens, against teams loaded with Pro Bowlers, like the Colts, than the Steelers ever did.

Give Brady a team full of Pro Bowlers like the Cowboys and Niners and whatnot and how many rings does Brady win? 13?


Hey I think I see a call coming into a phone booth over there. It's for you. It's the past.

Hey could you do me a favor and tell us all stories about how great Jim Taylor was when the league had virtually no black guys and had half as many teams and played like 10 games a year.

Or maybe we could hear about how great the league was back when Joe Namath made a Hall of Fame career on 50% passing and would have a cigarette and coffee for breakfast.

Maybe we could discuss how incredible the Steel Curtain was before the zone blitz was even invented.

Perhaps we could get into how today's Patriots would play in coverage back when the horse collar was legal and when you could play defense on a guy without being called for breathing on him.

We could discuss how incredibly good and athletic the league was back in the days of no black quarterbacks.

Please. Please tell me about the glorious history of the league before Tom Brady showed up and broke every record. It should be very interesting.

  I doubt if you'd know whether it was interesting or not. I don't know what you're doing beyond throwing out some random phrases and pretending they mean something. The Steelers defensive players weren't that great because teams didn't play the zone blitz back then? That's just foolish, as is the ridiculous claim that the Pats defense would be much better in coverage if they played when horse collar tackles were legal. Seriously?
My point is the Patriots dynasty is a more accomplished dynasty with better players in a more competitive era.  Kinda like how Seal Team Six would ruin the Roman Legionnaires
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 18, 2016, 10:21:37 PM
How close is this to the truth: The all-time single-season Pats have the GOAT quarterback, two top 25 running backs, the 2nd GOAT wide receiver, the GOAT slot receiver, another top 50 wide receiver, the GOAT tight end, another top 25 tight end, a top 5-10 offensive line as a whole, a top 25 defensive lineman, a top 5 nose tackle, a top 10 middle linebacker, a top 10 outside linebacker, a top 10 cornerback, another top 10 cornerback, another top 25 cornerback, a top 10 strong safety, a top 5 kicker, the GOAT coach. What franchises can match or exceed that?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 18, 2016, 10:28:37 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 19, 2016, 12:01:06 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

Seems to make them quiet more than annoyed, lol.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 19, 2016, 09:24:07 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 19, 2016, 09:39:59 PM
All I'm going to say is - how long before Eja wants to TRADE Brady AGAIN ;D

I'd venture a guess that it will be right after the NE-DEN game.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 19, 2016, 10:10:43 PM
All I'm going to say is - how long before Eja wants to TRADE Brady AGAIN ;D

I'd venture a guess that it will be right after the NE-DEN game.
If Brady gets crushed in Denver? Yeah, I'd be interested in what we could get for a 38 year old QB. Why wouldn't I?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 19, 2016, 10:14:26 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 19, 2016, 10:23:14 PM
All I'm going to say is - how long before Eja wants to TRADE Brady AGAIN ;D

I'd venture a guess that it will be right after the NE-DEN game.
If Brady gets crushed in Denver? Yeah, I'd be interested in what we could get for a 38 year old QB. Why wouldn't I?

WHAT?

You're actually leaving the possibility out there of a NE beatdown in DEN?

So, you'd trade (in YOUR own mind) the ringleader of YOUR Pats HOF.

The Shame.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 19, 2016, 10:39:56 PM
All I'm going to say is - how long before Eja wants to TRADE Brady AGAIN ;D

I'd venture a guess that it will be right after the NE-DEN game.
If Brady gets crushed in Denver? Yeah, I'd be interested in what we could get for a 38 year old QB. Why wouldn't I?

WHAT?

You're actually leaving the possibility out there of a NE beatdown in DEN?

So, you'd trade (in YOUR own mind) the ringleader of YOUR Pats HOF.

The Shame.
Brady himself has actually spoken on this and states there will be a day that Bill will call him into the office and tell him to bring his playbook.  (Which I find an interesting statement. It seems to imply he just plans to never retire.)

Danny Ainge has made similar statements that it's better to trade a star too early, than too late, and he did it with Pierce and KG.

It would seem unlikely to try to trade Brady if he's still in Super Bowl possibility mode, and I think he will be for a solid two or three more years, but it's hard to say. If you get a Godfather offer you have to listen to it, although realistically, unless it's to a California team I would imagine Tom would just retire. I doubt he'd go play for Tampa Bay or Buffalo or something
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 19, 2016, 11:09:19 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

I assumed he was speaking hyperbolically. If it was a serious premise, then, uh, well, yeah, that's absurd. Let's just say it was just an enthusiastic way to express his feeling that the Pats have a better all-time roster than all other franchises: Do they? Not if only players with longish careers as a Patriot qualify, no. But which franchises can put together a better all-time single-season team?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 20, 2016, 03:29:33 PM
Don't be shy, football connoisseurs, lol.
Whose all-time single-season team is better?
Giants? Dolphins? 49ers? Steelers?
Cowboys? Packers? Colts? Raiders?

Some franchises will have better defenses, and maybe some teams will have offenses as good, but I doubt any team would be better overall.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 20, 2016, 08:35:28 PM
Don't be shy, football connoisseurs, lol.
Whose all-time single-season team is better?
Giants? Dolphins? 49ers? Steelers?
Cowboys? Packers? Colts? Raiders?

Some franchises will have better defenses, and maybe some teams will have offenses as good, but I doubt any team would be better overall.

  You're talking about including players who were only on a team for a year or two? I'll try the Raiders. The "weak spots" are on offense are qb (two of whom were league MVPs) and tight end (Dave Casper, Ray Chester and Todd Christensen). The offensive line's top notch. The best running backs (Marcus Allen, Eric Dickerson and Bo Jackson) are all-time greats, with Van Eeghan and Reese at fullback. The wide receivers would include (off the top of my head) Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Tim Brown and Fred Belitnikoff.

  Defensive backs include Charles and Rod Woodson, Ronny Lott, Willie Brown, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes, Eric Allen and Terry McDaniel. Defensive linemen include Howie Long, Warren Sapp, Seymour, McGlockton, Matuzak, Alzado, Maryland and Laroi Glover. Linebackers would include Ted Hendricks, Rod Martin, Matt Millen and Hacksaw Reynolds. Don't forget two of the best punters in league history, Guy and Lechler. Undoubtedly I missed a few players, especially the 1-2 year types, but a pretty solid team all around.

  Edit: Gotta throw in Kahlil Mack, a second year player who's the first player ever to make all pro at two positions (LB and DE) in the same season.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 20, 2016, 08:37:51 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 20, 2016, 08:39:13 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

I assumed he was speaking hyperbolically.

  More obtuse than hyperbolic.

  Seriously, how often do you get to drag out the geometry humor?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 20, 2016, 08:53:56 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Oh I am sorry. I was just checking out these pics of the best players that ever played while trying to get ready for the Pats to play in their fifth AFC Championship game in a row. 

Kinda shocked you haven't invoked Dan Marino or Otto Graham yet.

(http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/06/13/1118664246_7669.jpg)

(http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/06/13/1118664105_0355.jpg)

(http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/patsrings.jpg)

(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1009/bos_e_faulk-rings01jr_300.jpg)
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 20, 2016, 09:06:20 PM
Don't be shy, football connoisseurs, lol.
Whose all-time single-season team is better?
Giants? Dolphins? 49ers? Steelers?
Cowboys? Packers? Colts? Raiders?

Some franchises will have better defenses, and maybe some teams will have offenses as good, but I doubt any team would be better overall.

  You're talking about including players who were only on a team for a year or two? I'll try the Raiders. The "weak spots" are on offense are qb (two of whom were league MVPs) and tight end (Dave Casper, Ray Chester and Todd Christensen). The offensive line's top notch. The best running backs (Marcus Allen, Eric Dickerson and Bo Jackson) are all-time greats, with Van Eeghan and Reese at fullback. The wide receivers would include (off the top of my head) Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Tim Brown and Fred Belitnikoff.

  Defensive backs include Charles and Rod Woodson, Ronny Lott, Willie Brown, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes, Eric Allen and Terry McDaniel. Defensive linemen include Howie Long, Warren Sapp, Seymour, McGlockton, Matuzak, Alzado, Maryland and Laroi Glover. Linebackers would include Ted Hendricks, Rod Martin, Matt Millen and Hacksaw Reynolds. Don't forget two of the best punters in league history, Guy and Lechler. Undoubtedly I missed a few players, especially the 1-2 year types, but a pretty solid team all around.

  Edit: Gotta throw in Kahlil Mack, a second year player who's the first player ever to make all pro at two positions (LB and DE) in the same season.

Raiders got an awesome squad.
[dang]. That might be better.
Gotta be the best, if so.

I'll dive deeper later and put them up head to head to see.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 20, 2016, 09:21:03 PM
I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 20, 2016, 10:27:36 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Oh I am sorry. I was just checking out these pics of the best players that ever played while trying to get ready for the Pats to play in their fifth AFC Championship game in a row. 


  Sorry, but did you say 5 conference championships in a row? Wow, that's a lot like the Celts in the 60s, only slightly more impressive. And I'd assume, since the team is so much better than the rest of the league, that they won the title in each of those years?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 20, 2016, 10:31:55 PM
I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

  Right, so you can name more players that you've seen on tv but never saw play. Congrats.

  And what's the Gronk/LT deal? Is the assumption that Gronk's capable of blocking one of the best pass rushers in the history of the league, or is the assumption that LT spent most of his time covering tight ends? Don't they have youtube where you come from?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 20, 2016, 10:36:02 PM
I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

  Right, so you can name more players that you've seen on tv but never saw play. Congrats.

  And what's the Gronk/LT deal? Is the assumption that Gronk's capable of blocking one of the best pass rushers in the history of the league, or is the assumption that LT spent most of his time covering tight ends? Don't they have youtube where you come from?
No. The deal is that because of athletes like Gronk the ball gets out quicker giving significantly less time for the LTs to get sacks, meaning Gronk runs by him and says "beep beep" while LT is like "which way did he go" or did you miss the evolution of the game?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 20, 2016, 10:40:06 PM
Shhhhh.....Dino....when you say stuff like that they assume you don't know a lot about the history of pro football. They call it "trolling." It makes them annoyed.

  Or they'll make the rather obvious claim that you don't seem to be at all able to grasp simple concepts, such as the fact that a team with two players who are arguably the best at their position and a handful of others that might be arguably top 5-top 10 at their position wouldn't be able to compete with a team comprised of the top players at 20 or so of the 22 positions and players, which was your original premise.

  Or maybe they'll remember your past claims arguing that the quarterback of whichever team won the league was automatically the best quarterback in the league that year, so by your standards your "GOAT" was only the best at his position once in the last 10 years. Not so impressive. I also doubt anyone could make a really convincing argument that you couldn't put another all-time great qb and put them on the Pats and have similar success.
 
I don't think I said that and would need that shown to me.

I think you also have to remember my general claims that I don't believe that some of these supposed best players of all time at their position are actually better than players that have played for the Pats.

   No, you don't, but again that's not something that bolsters your credibility.

Oh I am sorry. I was just checking out these pics of the best players that ever played while trying to get ready for the Pats to play in their fifth AFC Championship game in a row. 


  Sorry, but did you say 5 conference championships in a row? Wow, that's a lot like the Celts in the 60s, only slightly more impressive. And I'd assume, since the team is so much better than the rest of the league, that they won the title in each of those years?
They also won 13 of the last 15 division titles. The last time they didn't win was 2008 when Brady had his injury.  But no. They only have 6 Super Bowl appearances with 4 wins in that time.

How many Super Bowl appearances did Troy Aikman have or Joe Montana? So wait a second....if Brady gets to another Super Bowl....he'll have as many Super Bowl appearances as....Joe Montana and Troy combined. Because he's that much better.

Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 20, 2016, 11:03:54 PM
I think I heard on the radio last night that when Edelman and Gronk both play they are like 22-1.

Yeah.  So Brady with those two guys and Troy Brown....they go up against Deion Sanders, Troy Polamalu, Rod Woodson, Darrell Revis.

The DL has whoever...Randle, Sapp, whoever. Strahan

The LBs, are LT, Ray Lewis, whoever.

They go up against Brady being protected by the best OLs the Pats ever had......yeah that defense has no chance whatsoever. None.

LT would have no idea whatsoever to do with Gronk. LT would try to send hookers to Gronk's room the night before. Gronk would send them all home in five minutes and be like "more". All the coke in the world wouldn't help LT deal with Gronk. LT never played against a player that resembled anything like Gronk. And don't mention Kellen Winslow.  It's not the same thing.

  Right, so you can name more players that you've seen on tv but never saw play. Congrats.

  And what's the Gronk/LT deal? Is the assumption that Gronk's capable of blocking one of the best pass rushers in the history of the league, or is the assumption that LT spent most of his time covering tight ends? Don't they have youtube where you come from?
No. The deal is that because of athletes like Gronk the ball gets out quicker giving significantly less time for the LTs to get sacks, meaning Gronk runs by him and says "beep beep" while LT is like "which way did he go" or did you miss the evolution of the game?

  Yes, because as far as you know sacks rarely happen in the nfl. They probably had about 20-30 a game back in the 80s when people watched LT running around in a leather helmet with no facemask on their  black and white tvs. Or something else was happening, you don't know what, but players must be better now because your favorite team's been one of the dominant teams in the history of any sport, bringing home one title in the last 10 years.

  Nowadays, of course, you never see sacks, because of Gronk! In fact, Brady's hardly ever been sacked in his life, only 400+ times, which *clearly* proves that the best pass rushers in the history of the league would never be able to lay a hand on him. Because the game's modern now, and because Gronk!!!
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2016, 08:27:21 AM
Well also Edelman.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: BballTim on January 21, 2016, 08:58:23 PM
Well also Edelman.

  Another sure-fire Hall of Famer no doubt.

  I look forward to your comments about how Michael Jordan wouldn't be able to keep up with the current Celts because the game's evolved quite a bit since he joined the league (back in the LT era), or that he'd never be able to guard modern players because they don't allow horse collar tackles anymore.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2016, 09:15:44 PM
A different and far less complicated sport. I do think the Bulls would not have fared half as well in the 80s against the Magic Lakers, Bird Celts, and possibly Bad Boy Pistons.  (Yes I know he played them).

Also would have liked to see prime Jordan Bulls vs prime Kobe/Shaq Lakers and prime Duncan/Manu/Parker Spurs.

Very different topic.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 22, 2016, 02:33:00 PM
Don't be shy, football connoisseurs, lol.
Whose all-time single-season team is better?
Giants? Dolphins? 49ers? Steelers?
Cowboys? Packers? Colts? Raiders?

Some franchises will have better defenses, and maybe some teams will have offenses as good, but I doubt any team would be better overall.

  You're talking about including players who were only on a team for a year or two? I'll try the Raiders. The "weak spots" are on offense are qb (two of whom were league MVPs) and tight end (Dave Casper, Ray Chester and Todd Christensen). The offensive line's top notch. The best running backs (Marcus Allen, Eric Dickerson and Bo Jackson) are all-time greats, with Van Eeghan and Reese at fullback. The wide receivers would include (off the top of my head) Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Tim Brown and Fred Belitnikoff.

  Defensive backs include Charles and Rod Woodson, Ronny Lott, Willie Brown, Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes, Eric Allen and Terry McDaniel. Defensive linemen include Howie Long, Warren Sapp, Seymour, McGlockton, Matuzak, Alzado, Maryland and Laroi Glover. Linebackers would include Ted Hendricks, Rod Martin, Matt Millen and Hacksaw Reynolds. Don't forget two of the best punters in league history, Guy and Lechler. Undoubtedly I missed a few players, especially the 1-2 year types, but a pretty solid team all around.

  Edit: Gotta throw in Kahlil Mack, a second year player who's the first player ever to make all pro at two positions (LB and DE) in the same season.

Raiders got an awesome squad.
[dang]. That might be better.
Gotta be the best, if so.

I'll dive deeper later and put them up head to head to see.

I do have to point out that giving Dickerson to the Raiders is kind of like giving Seau to the Patriots. Never had a good enough year to qualify as an all-time version of himself. And it's almost the same situation with Rice, where he was merely very good that one year with the Raiders, a qualitatively different kind of Jerry Rice. Whereas you'll see that the Patriots all-time single-season cameos are from years that are just about as great or even better than that player's best years elsewhere. For instance, the '07 Moss is significantly better than the Moss that the Raiders get. Also, the Raiders' peak version of Mike Haynes might be a little better than the Patriots' rookie Mike Haynes, but not by much. Same for Martin on the Jets versus the early Patriots years, same for Buoniconti, Dillon, Revis.

Still, to have both Allen and Jackson is a little more impressive than Martin and Dillon, even more so with that top 5 offensive line, plus all the receiving options, where are more or less as great as the Patriots' receivers. And then that defense, greatness everywhere, the incredible defensive backs. I'm still weighing the comparison.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 24, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
Well, I suppose that Peyton is NOW 3-1 vs Brady in the Post-Season, right?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ogaju on January 24, 2016, 06:43:11 PM
what is the ring count?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 24, 2016, 06:48:59 PM
what is the ring count?

Well, at least THIS year it won't be anymore for Eja's Superman - errr - Tom Brady.

Peyton? He lives for another 2 weeks...could possibly add ring #2.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 24, 2016, 06:51:08 PM
what is the ring count?

Well, at least THIS year it won't be anymore for Eja's Superman - errr - Tom Brady.

Peyton? He lives for another 2 weeks...could possibly add ring #2.

Do you believe that? I can't imagine the spread being less than two TDs in favor of either NFC team. Super Bowl ought to be a complete joke.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 24, 2016, 06:55:24 PM
So basically, the only thing you need to beat a Tom Brady led team is a Manning, doesn't matter which one.

Manning family is 5-2 vs Brady in playoffs, and 2-0 in the SB.

Ha!
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 24, 2016, 06:58:47 PM
what is the ring count?

Well, at least THIS year it won't be anymore for Eja's Superman - errr - Tom Brady.

Peyton? He lives for another 2 weeks...could possibly add ring #2.

Do you believe that? I can't imagine the spread being less than two TDs in favor of either NFC team. Super Bowl ought to be a complete joke.

Could be.

But all I know is that Eja can put the NE Patriots GodMode talk on hold for the rest of the season. He REALLY put the Patriots UP THERE in this thread.

You'd think that His Title here in this thread makes the Patriots look like the Justice League. Look like the Avengers.

Nonsense.

Look, I know that as a FAN you're supposed to root for your team, but Eja goes FULL TOMMY H here. He makes TOMMY look like an amateur with his Patriots talk in this thread.

Kinda helps me to look at perhaps how OTHER fanbases may view US as Celtics Fans. After all, there ARE other legends out there - in Basketball AND in Football as well.

And they don't wear Celtics Green NOR NE Blue, Gray and Red.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2018, 06:30:31 PM
This is just becoming more and more obvious.

All time Patriots vs the all time field and they win. 

Best player. Best coach. Dominated the most competitive era.

They win.

And the All Time Celts beat the All Time Field as well. The field would just end up being the all time Lakers plus MJ and Dr. J  The All Time Spurs are probably the only team that could even fight back.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 08:13:08 AM
Other than the Celts and Patriots is there another franchise that can make this claim?  I would think the Yankees would have a chance.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on January 22, 2018, 08:28:43 AM
Yeah, Eja will be ready to trade Brady for a bag of Doritos if they falter against PHI.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/07e3e03d6f469a87b0afec4a771d26af3d3c7bff/c=193-63-3343-2431&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2018/01/22/USATODAY/USATODAY/636521764055365283-USATSI-10559126.jpg)

WHO LET THE DOGS OUT???

Don't sleep on PHI.

But of course "IF" Brady has a bad game he can always blame it on the cut on his finger...............
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Roy H. on January 22, 2018, 08:29:28 AM
Other than the Celts and Patriots is there another franchise that can make this claim?  I would think the Yankees would have a chance.

Oilers in hockey.
Lakers and Celts at basketball.
Yankees in baseball. Sox and Dodgers could field multiple historically good aces, so they’d have a shot.

But, they’d all be underdogs.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 08:44:35 AM
Yeah, Eja will be ready to trade Brady for a bag of Doritos if they falter against PHI.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/07e3e03d6f469a87b0afec4a771d26af3d3c7bff/c=193-63-3343-2431&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2018/01/22/USATODAY/USATODAY/636521764055365283-USATSI-10559126.jpg)

WHO LET THE DOGS OUT???

Don't sleep on PHI.

But of course "IF" Brady has a bad game he can always blame it on the cut on his finger...............
Woah woah woah.......If Brady has a historically bad game.....annnnnddd we get offered a couple of reallllyyy nice bags of Tostitos....those thick restaurant quality ones.....well then it's a tough decision.  But get those Doritos out of here.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 08:48:42 AM
Other than the Celts and Patriots is there another franchise that can make this claim?  I would think the Yankees would have a chance.

Oilers in hockey.
Lakers and Celts at basketball.
Yankees in baseball. Sox and Dodgers could field multiple historically good aces, so they’d have a shot.

But, they’d all be underdogs.
Sox and Dodgers would be very interesting. Babe Ruth vs Sandy Koufax I got Kofax. And Schilling and Pedro aren't taking any of Babe's guff

With the Oilers....they only have 7 Stanley Cup appearances vs the Canadiens 34 so we'd be going entirely on the Gretzky 1980s

College sports.....Duke vs the field? UNC or UCLA vs the field?

Alabama vs the field?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 08:55:47 AM
I'd still take the regular HOF, without the Pats, then just the Pats, and I'd dominate.  There are just far too many great players spread throughout the league for this to be any sort of real contest.  Frankly, I think you could argue a team like Steelers, Cowboys, or Niners would have a better team than the Patriots anyway.  I mean imagine if you just started with the Ravens 2000 defense, then you added players like Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkas, Mike Singletary, Ronnie Lott, etc.  Then on offense you start with a team like the 90's Cowboys and swap out Aikman for Montana, add guys like Anthony Munoz to the line, put Jim Brown and Walter Payton along with Emmitt Smith, add Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, etc. 

This notion that one team's HOF eclipses the other 29 teams HOF is just silly nonsense. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 08:57:44 AM
Can't wait to see Deion Sanders try to tackle Gronk.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 09:02:00 AM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Roy H. on January 22, 2018, 01:34:55 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

Can the Pats stop an offense featuring, say, Joe Montana (or Steve Young or Peyton Manning) throwing to Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson and Tony Gonzalez, and handing off to Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 01:39:49 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

Can the Pats stop an offense featuring, say, Joe Montana throwing to Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson and Tony Gonzalez, and handing off to Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?
of course not, especially when the OL is guys like Anthony Munoz, Bruce Matthews, Mike Webster, Gene Upshaw, and Forrest Gregg (with guys like Larry Allen, Jonathon Ogden, Walter Jones, etc. on the bench).
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 22, 2018, 02:03:00 PM
And when LT breaks Brady's leg on the first play of the game, then what?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 22, 2018, 02:04:51 PM
"Frankly, I think you could argue a team like Steelers, Cowboys, or Niners would have a better team than the Patriots anyway."

You sure about that?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 02:23:06 PM
And when LT breaks Brady's leg on the first play of the game, then what?
Coach Belichick will have a plan for that. I'm assuming Bledsoe with a bunch of Edelman and Doug Flutie trick plays
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 02:53:41 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

Can the Pats stop an offense featuring, say, Joe Montana (or Steve Young or Peyton Manning) throwing to Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson and Tony Gonzalez, and handing off to Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?
But we saaaawww this. We saaawww this many times.

We saw big baaaaaaddd Peyton Manning handing off to a Pro Bowl RB, and throwing to multiple Pro Bowl recievers, a Pro Bowl TE, and being protected by a Pro Bowl center and left tackle.  And even a Pro Bowl kicker.

We saw the Patriots play against Marshal Faulk (how'd that go?) with some greatest show on turf stuff. With Kurt Warner and Isaac Bruce and Orlando Pace and Aenaes Williams and another Pro Bowl guard and another Pro Bowl WR.  Brady beat them throwing to Jr Redmond and Jermaine Wiggins. He's not throwing to Wiggins this time. This time it's Gronk

We saaaawww them play the big vaunted Ravens defenses with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and whoever they had.

I get that the All time team gets to upgrade from Marshall Faulk to Barry Sanders. But this time we don't have to chase him with Bryan Cox. We chase him with Andre Tippet.

We saaaawww our receivers play against Richard Sherman. Whoever it was we saw it. Whoever the du jour player was we saw it.  This time Strahan wouldn't be going up against Matt Light. 

And who is coaching this All Time Team? Shula?

Does it come down to special teams? Because we got the best kicker. 

I'd like to see Montana complete a pass to Jerry Rice after getting smacked in the mouth by a Lawyer Milloy safety blitz.

Have fun going over the middle MegaTron. I got a Rodney Harrison and a Brushci waiting for you.

Yes the Pats would be underdogs. Just like they were all those other times.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 03:12:46 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

Can the Pats stop an offense featuring, say, Joe Montana (or Steve Young or Peyton Manning) throwing to Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson and Tony Gonzalez, and handing off to Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?
But we saaaawww this. We saaawww this many times.

We saw big baaaaaaddd Peyton Manning handing off to a Pro Bowl RB, and throwing to multiple Pro Bowl recievers, a Pro Bowl TE, and being protected by a Pro Bowl center and left tackle.  And even a Pro Bowl kicker.

We saw the Patriots play against Marshal Faulk (how'd that go?) with some greatest show on turf stuff. With Kurt Warner and Isaac Bruce and Orlando Pace and Aenaes Williams and another Pro Bowl guard and another Pro Bowl WR.  Brady beat them throwing to Jr Redmond and Jermaine Wiggins. He's not throwing to Wiggins this time. This time it's Gronk

We saaaawww them play the big vaunted Ravens defenses with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and whoever they had.

I get that the All time team gets to upgrade from Marshall Faulk to Barry Sanders. But this time we don't have to chase him with Bryan Cox. We chase him with Andre Tippet.

We saaaawww our receivers play against Richard Sherman. Whoever it was we saw it. Whoever the du jour player was we saw it.  This time Strahan wouldn't be going up against Matt Light. 

And who is coaching this All Time Team? Shula?

Does it come down to special teams? Because we got the best kicker. 

I'd like to see Montana complete a pass to Jerry Rice after getting smacked in the mouth by a Lawyer Milloy safety blitz.

Have fun going over the middle MegaTron. I got a Rodney Harrison and a Brushci waiting for you.

Yes the Pats would be underdogs. Just like they were all those other times.
Joe Flacco is 2-2 against the Patriots in the playoffs.  All 4 games were in New England.  And Joe Flacco was probably the best player (outside of Ogden) on the Ravens offense in those games.  And those Ravens defenses are no where near as strong as the 2000 defense or the other historically great defenses (like the 85 Bears, etc.). 

I mean for context, the 2000 Ravens played 4 playoff games.  They gave up 23 points combined.  Two of those offenses were top 3 offenses in the league that year.  In the course of the 20 games they played, they had 4 shut outs, and held another 11 opponents to 10 or less points.  The other 5 scores were 36 (W), 19 (L), 14 (L), 23 (W), 20 (W).  This is a team that went 5 consecutive games without an offensive TD and yet won 2 of them.  You put guys like Lawrence Taylor on that team and you make that defense even better.  Then you give them the greatest offense the world has ever seen and that team is unstoppable. 

There is no franchise in NFL history that can compete with the best of the best from league history. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
"Frankly, I think you could argue a team like Steelers, Cowboys, or Niners would have a better team than the Patriots anyway."

You sure about that?
Yep.  Pretty confident in that statement. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 22, 2018, 03:17:00 PM
"Frankly, I think you could argue a team like Steelers, Cowboys, or Niners would have a better team than the Patriots anyway."

You sure about that?
Yep.  Pretty confident in that statement.

Test it, then. Choose one and compare it to the Pats.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 22, 2018, 03:19:03 PM
This is what other teams have to beat:

How close is this to the truth: The all-time single-season Pats have the GOAT quarterback, two top 25 running backs, the 2nd GOAT wide receiver, the GOAT slot receiver, another top 50 wide receiver, the GOAT tight end, another top 25 tight end, a top 5-10 offensive line as a whole, a top 25 defensive lineman, a top 5 nose tackle, a top 10 middle linebacker, a top 10 outside linebacker, a top 10 cornerback, another top 10 cornerback, another top 25 cornerback, a top 10 strong safety, a top 5 kicker, the GOAT coach. What franchises can match or exceed that?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 22, 2018, 03:21:00 PM
QB - Tom Brady '07
HB - Corey Dillon '04
HB - Curtis Martin '95
FB - Jim Nance '66
WR - Randy Moss '07
WR - Wes Welker '11
WR - Stanley Morgan '79
WR - Terry Glenn '96
WR - Troy Brown '01
TE - Rob Gronkowski '11
TE - Ben Coates '94
TE - Russ Francis '78

G - John Hannah '80
G - Logan Mankins '10
G - Brian Waters '11
C - Jon Morris '66
T - Bruce Armstrong '96
T - Matt Light '07
T - Leon Gray '78
T - Brian Holloway '85

LB - Nick Buoniconti '66
LB - Andre Tippett '85
LB - Jerod Mayo '10
LB - Steve Nelson '80
LB - Tom Addison '61
DE - Richard Seymour '04
DE - Larry Eisenhauer '63
DE - Willie McGinest '96
DT - Houston Antwine '63
DT - Vince Wilfork '12

CB - Darrelle Revis '14
CB - Mike Haynes '76
CB - Ty Law '03
CB - Raymond Clayborn '85
S - Rodney Harrison '03
S - Lawyer Milloy '99

K - Adam Vinatieri '01
(or Stephen Gostowski '15?)
P - Rich Camarillo '83
PR - Irving Fryar '85
KR - Dave Meggett '96
Gunner - Matthew Slater '14
Miscellaneous - Gino Cappelletti '64

I'm sure there's a better version of that. I'm not a huge football fan. But still, that looks like the makings of a nearly-unbeatable all-time single-season team.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 03:23:35 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

Can the Pats stop an offense featuring, say, Joe Montana (or Steve Young or Peyton Manning) throwing to Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson and Tony Gonzalez, and handing off to Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?
But we saaaawww this. We saaawww this many times.

We saw big baaaaaaddd Peyton Manning handing off to a Pro Bowl RB, and throwing to multiple Pro Bowl recievers, a Pro Bowl TE, and being protected by a Pro Bowl center and left tackle.  And even a Pro Bowl kicker.

We saw the Patriots play against Marshal Faulk (how'd that go?) with some greatest show on turf stuff. With Kurt Warner and Isaac Bruce and Orlando Pace and Aenaes Williams and another Pro Bowl guard and another Pro Bowl WR.  Brady beat them throwing to Jr Redmond and Jermaine Wiggins. He's not throwing to Wiggins this time. This time it's Gronk

We saaaawww them play the big vaunted Ravens defenses with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and whoever they had.

I get that the All time team gets to upgrade from Marshall Faulk to Barry Sanders. But this time we don't have to chase him with Bryan Cox. We chase him with Andre Tippet.

We saaaawww our receivers play against Richard Sherman. Whoever it was we saw it. Whoever the du jour player was we saw it.  This time Strahan wouldn't be going up against Matt Light. 

And who is coaching this All Time Team? Shula?

Does it come down to special teams? Because we got the best kicker. 

I'd like to see Montana complete a pass to Jerry Rice after getting smacked in the mouth by a Lawyer Milloy safety blitz.

Have fun going over the middle MegaTron. I got a Rodney Harrison and a Brushci waiting for you.

Yes the Pats would be underdogs. Just like they were all those other times.
Joe Flacco is 2-2 against the Patriots in the playoffs.  All 4 games were in New England.  And Joe Flacco was probably the best player (outside of Ogden) on the Ravens offense in those games.  And those Ravens defenses are no where near as strong as the 2000 defense or the other historically great defenses (like the 85 Bears, etc.). 

I mean for context, the 2000 Ravens played 4 playoff games.  They gave up 23 points combined.  Two of those offenses were top 3 offenses in the league that year.  In the course of the 20 games they played, they had 4 shut outs, and held another 11 opponents to 10 or less points.  The other 5 scores were 36 (W), 19 (L), 14 (L), 23 (W), 20 (W).  This is a team that went 5 consecutive games without an offensive TD and yet won 2 of them.  You put guys like Lawrence Taylor on that team and you make that defense even better.  Then you give them the greatest offense the world has ever seen and that team is unstoppable. 

There is no franchise in NFL history that can compete with the best of the best from league history.
Oh I grant you a Brady/Belichick led all time Pats team would definitely be a 3.5 point underdog at home in this scenario.

Then they'd win
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 03:26:54 PM
Have you ever noticed how all the historically great defenses never played against Brady?  There were these historically great defenses led by great coaches. Then Brady started playing and they were never seen from again.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 03:47:10 PM
"Frankly, I think you could argue a team like Steelers, Cowboys, or Niners would have a better team than the Patriots anyway."

You sure about that?
Yep.  Pretty confident in that statement.

Test it, then. Choose one and compare it to the Pats.
Start with the Steelers.  You take the 70's Steel Curtain defense and then you add guys like Troy Polamalu, Jack Butler, Rod Woodson, James Harrison, Joey Porter, Cameron Heyward, Kevin Greene, etc.

Offensively you have 2 HOF QB's leading the way with Bradshaw and Roethlisberger (6 Super Bowl wins between them).  Franco Harris, Jerome Bettis, and Le'Veon Bell at RB.  Antonio Brown, Hines Ward, Lynn Swann, and John Stallworth at WR with Heath Miller at TE (the one real weak spot).  As for the line, plenty of All Pros to choose from including some current players like Pouncey and DeCastro, and some more recent guys like Faneca, Dawson, Webster (though tackle is a bit weak, the line is very good overall).

The Patriots might very well be favored against that team, but it would be far from a given, especially when you consider that defense.  The Steelers could put together a defense that is superior to the Patriots defense, and it isn't all that close, though the Pats offense would likely have the edge. 

The Niners and Cowboys would have offenses on par or better, and would be close defensively.

Heck, I posted about the Ravens in this thread.  Clearly the Ravens in their 20 years of existence would fall way short offensively, but they could put together such a suffocating defense and Flacco obviously has no fear in NE, such that if you gave him Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes, Ray Rice, and Shannon Sharpe offensively, I'm not sure I'd count them out either.  I mean imagine that 2000 Ravens defense, but add Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Elvis Dumervil, and Ed Reed to it.  Take the Chris McAlister from a few years later and the Rod Woodson from a couple of season earlier.  Put Ray Lewis at his peak.  The thought of trying to score on that team has got to be scary. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 22, 2018, 03:49:32 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

The Pats do not get "prime" Randy Moss under your rules, the NFL team gets him. Moss' prime was in Minnesota.

Look, I appreciate a fan who loves his team. But this is 'Tommy on steroids' level Homer Simpson syndrome.

No individual team HOF would ever beat the league HOF, in any sport. It's just a silly notion. Fun to debate, but silly none the less.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 22, 2018, 03:55:55 PM
The bottom line is there are plenty of proud and successful franchises in the NFL.

Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, Giants, and Packers have all won at least 4 SB's. I would put any of those teams individual HOF teams against the Pats and feel confident in winning. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be close.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 04:17:12 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

The Pats do not get "prime" Randy Moss under your rules, the NFL team gets him. Moss' prime was in Minnesota.

Look, I appreciate a fan who loves his team. But this is 'Tommy on steroids' level Homer Simpson syndrome.

No individual team HOF would ever beat the league HOF, in any sport. It's just a silly notion. Fun to debate, but silly none the less.
Wait. I said "Prime" not "Best" or "Most".  Randy broke the single season record for TDs with Brady and played a Super Bowl. That's pretty prime
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 04:17:33 PM
The bottom line is there are plenty of proud and successful franchises in the NFL.

Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, Giants, and Packers have all won at least 4 SB's. I would put any of those teams individual HOF teams against the Pats and feel confident in winning. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be close.
Only the Patriots have won more than 2 in the salary cap era, right?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Donoghus on January 22, 2018, 04:34:24 PM
The bottom line is there are plenty of proud and successful franchises in the NFL.

Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, Giants, and Packers have all won at least 4 SB's. I would put any of those teams individual HOF teams against the Pats and feel confident in winning. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be close.
Only the Patriots have won more than 2 in the salary cap era, right?

Denver has 3.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 04:38:32 PM
The bottom line is there are plenty of proud and successful franchises in the NFL.

Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, Giants, and Packers have all won at least 4 SB's. I would put any of those teams individual HOF teams against the Pats and feel confident in winning. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be close.
Only the Patriots have won more than 2 in the salary cap era, right?
Denver has won 3 (the two with Elway and the one with Peyton).  But it also helps the Patriots when their QB has historically taken around half of what he would be worth on the open market. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 04:55:22 PM
The bottom line is there are plenty of proud and successful franchises in the NFL.

Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, Giants, and Packers have all won at least 4 SB's. I would put any of those teams individual HOF teams against the Pats and feel confident in winning. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but it would be close.
Only the Patriots have won more than 2 in the salary cap era, right?
Denver has won 3 (the two with Elway and the one with Peyton).  But it also helps the Patriots when their QB has historically taken around half of what he would be worth on the open market.
But of the list given there....only the Pats have more than 2 in the salary cap era...and I totally agree with both your statements. They are both correct. And it wasn't just Brady. Some other guys took less too. Some guys didn't
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: johnnygreen on January 22, 2018, 04:58:29 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

The Pats do not get "prime" Randy Moss under your rules, the NFL team gets him. Moss' prime was in Minnesota.

Look, I appreciate a fan who loves his team. But this is 'Tommy on steroids' level Homer Simpson syndrome.

No individual team HOF would ever beat the league HOF, in any sport. It's just a silly notion. Fun to debate, but silly none the less.
Wait. I said "Prime" not "Best" or "Most".  Randy broke the single season record for TDs with Brady and played a Super Bowl. That's pretty prime

Randy's prime was clearly in Minnesota. Moss was out of the league in less than 3 years after the 2007 season. He was not injured, just done. You don't go from your prime to out of the league in that time frame, barring injury. If he was still that close to his prime, then there would have been many teams that would have given him another chance.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 22, 2018, 04:59:21 PM
Quote
the world at peak ability who wins this game.....the players/coaches in the Patriots Hall of Fame or the players/coaches in the actual Hall of Fame and if they are in the Patriots Hall of Fame the other team can't have them?

The Pats will have the best coach, best QB, best TEs, best kickers, best guard.  And pro bowlers and Hall of Famers at virtually every position.

I don't see how they lose that.

Ok....let's go a little more apples to apples. What if it's just Patriots vs field just in the salary cap era? Now who wins?

I got Pats by 10 at Gillette, and by 4 on a neutral field

I should clarify the Pats get the player at the level he played for them. They don't get to pick Junior Seau and get him when he was great, when he only played a couple years for them at the end

Brady is the best QB of all time, Belichik is the best coach all time and one can argue Gronk is one of the best TE of all time.   Other than that, I think your way off.  The rest of the league would beat you at almost every other position.

Moss played his best years elsewhere.   The Patriots are a great team but do a lot of their individual defenders stand out enough?

If we are talking teams that could give them trouble.   86 Bears, certain 49er teams and some of the Steel Curtain Steelers could given them a run for their money, I think.   

Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 06:02:11 PM
The only chance the field would have would be to blitz. The best Patriots tackles....Bruce Armstrong...Solder...Matt Light....they'd have a tough time in this game.

I think it could force the Pats to be more up the middle sending Curtis Martin behind John Hannah and keeping a guy back.

Personally I think keeping extra blockers in and give Tom time to find Troy, Julian, Gronk, and Randy....good luck with that

I would also make the game slightly more fair by saying if the Pats get a prime player the field can't have him. Like the Pats get prime Curtis Martin and prime Randy Moss. So the field doesn't get him. But the field gets Junior Seau not us.

The Pats do not get "prime" Randy Moss under your rules, the NFL team gets him. Moss' prime was in Minnesota.

Look, I appreciate a fan who loves his team. But this is 'Tommy on steroids' level Homer Simpson syndrome.

No individual team HOF would ever beat the league HOF, in any sport. It's just a silly notion. Fun to debate, but silly none the less.
Wait. I said "Prime" not "Best" or "Most".  Randy broke the single season record for TDs with Brady and played a Super Bowl. That's pretty prime

Randy's prime was clearly in Minnesota. Moss was out of the league in less than 3 years after the 2007 season. He was not injured, just done. You don't go from your prime to out of the league in that time frame, barring injury. If he was still that close to his prime, then there would have been many teams that would have given him another chance.
Fine. Give me sub prime Randy.  Personally I expect this game to revolve around the trenches more than the receivers.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 06:05:56 PM
Btw.....just to kinda give you an example of what I think of the people that try to tell us how good various players are.....the Steelers have 10 Pro Bowlers this year. The Pats have 4. Isn't that adorable?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 23, 2018, 08:14:10 AM
Btw.....just to kinda give you an example of what I think of the people that try to tell us how good various players are.....the Steelers have 10 Pro Bowlers this year. The Pats have 4. Isn't that adorable?
The Pats only deserve 4, but when 1 of them is Brady, it helps a great deal.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 08:35:32 AM
Btw.....just to kinda give you an example of what I think of the people that try to tell us how good various players are.....the Steelers have 10 Pro Bowlers this year. The Pats have 4. Isn't that adorable?
The Pats only deserve 4, but when 1 of them is Brady, it helps a great deal.
This happens every year to the Patriots. It's extremely common to see a bunch of players from other teams go to the Pro Bowl while the Patriots go to the Super Bowl.

I don't think it happens to the other teams as much. It's amusing to New Englanders.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: ETNCeltics on January 23, 2018, 08:54:04 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 08:55:49 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.
Peyton Manning! HA! Good one!
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 23, 2018, 09:03:22 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.

Yeah Peyton is a stretch.

What about the Gronk? Who is better?

Not a player, but who is a better coach than Belichick?

Brady, Belichick, and Gronk are tops at what they do.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 23, 2018, 09:09:42 AM
Btw.....just to kinda give you an example of what I think of the people that try to tell us how good various players are.....the Steelers have 10 Pro Bowlers this year. The Pats have 4. Isn't that adorable?
The Pats only deserve 4, but when 1 of them is Brady, it helps a great deal.
This happens every year to the Patriots. It's extremely common to see a bunch of players from other teams go to the Pro Bowl while the Patriots go to the Super Bowl.

I don't think it happens to the other teams as much. It's amusing to New Englanders.

It is because the Steelers are a collection of great talent, while the Patriots are a team of decent/good players who get better when they are coached up and play together.

Give Pitt Belichick at coach and they would have won far more.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Roy H. on January 23, 2018, 09:33:59 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.

Yeah Peyton is a stretch.

What about the Gronk? Who is better?

Not a player, but who is a better coach than Belichick?

Brady, Belichick, and Gronk are tops at what they do.

They are. The NFL team would have the second best at those positions, and the best everywhere else, though.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 23, 2018, 09:50:19 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.

Yeah Peyton is a stretch.

What about the Gronk? Who is better?

Not a player, but who is a better coach than Belichick?

Brady, Belichick, and Gronk are tops at what they do.

They are. The NFL team would have the second best at those positions, and the best everywhere else, though.
And the best by a very wide margin, and it isn't like a guy like Montana sucks.  He isn't far behind Brady.  And there are plenty of great coaches in NFL history- Landry, Knoll, Parcells, etc. 

I've seen a lot of homerism on this site, but this thread takes the cake, which is very impressive in and of itself.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.

Yeah Peyton is a stretch.

What about the Gronk? Who is better?

Not a player, but who is a better coach than Belichick?

Brady, Belichick, and Gronk are tops at what they do.

They are. The NFL team would have the second best at those positions, and the best everywhere else, though.
But at the two most important spots (coach and QB)...we're better by a wide margin
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 10:16:05 AM
Quick question.  Who would you rather have? Montana-Rice or Brady-anyone? Had to think about, didn't you?
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Roy H. on January 23, 2018, 10:23:27 AM
One possible defense, skewed toward modern players:

Safety: Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed

Nickel Back: Darren Woodson

CB: Dion Sanders, Charles Woodson

ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher

OLB: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas

Defensive Line: Reggie White, J.J. Watt, Warren Sapp, John Randle

Defensive Coordinator: Buddy Ryan

Legitimately, would Brady even survive the game? He’d be pressured every throw.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Roy H. on January 23, 2018, 10:25:10 AM
Quick question.  Who would you rather have? Montana-Rice or Brady-anyone? Had to think about, didn't you?

Nope.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Donoghus on January 23, 2018, 10:30:56 AM
This is asinine & homerism at its best.  A group of NFL legends would kick the crap out of an all-time Pats team.   

Quick question.  Who would you rather have? Montana-Rice or Brady-anyone? Had to think about, didn't you?

Nope.

Agreed.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 10:43:47 AM
When you look at the players that should be in the Pats HOF vs the actual HOF....reveals some interesting stuff.

One guy that will just never be in the HOF is Lawyer Milloy. Only 2 Pro Bowls. He will actually have a pretty difficult time making the Patriots HOF.

Rodney Harrison...only 2 Pro Bowls yet 4 All Pros.  He's not a lock for either hall any immediate time soon.

Then you have McCourty who's not done yet. 2 Pro Bowls yet 3 2nd team All Pros. 

Give me those guys over lots and lots of other guys.

Ty Law vs Deion Sanders?  Yeah. Let's see Deion try to tackle Gronk. Let's see how that goes. The only reason you maybe go with him is he's a good returner and a competent receiver.

If Ty had just danced a little more and worn more bling and done more commercials he'd probably be in the HOF. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 10:50:00 AM
One possible defense, skewed toward modern players:

Safety: Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed

Nickel Back: Darren Woodson

CB: Dion Sanders, Charles Woodson

ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher

OLB: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas

Defensive Line: Reggie White, J.J. Watt, Warren Sapp, John Randle

Defensive Coordinator: Buddy Ryan

Legitimately, would Brady even survive the game? He’d be pressured every throw.
Give me Gronk, Randy, and Edelman as the only receivers every play with Curtis Martin and/or maybe Kevin Faulk as an outlet. 

I simply don't believe a team of Pro Bowl OLs will be so utterly overwhelmed that Brady will be destroyed.

Give me what....Bruce Amrmstong, Hannah, Logan Mankins, Matt Light on the right side....whoever....Koppen, Waters. Thuney.  I don't care.

That defense will be sucking wind and taking aspirin after the game

First play.  Send Gronk right at LT on a sweep to bury him and tell him after the play "I thought you were good."
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 10:51:47 AM
Quick question.  Who would you rather have? Montana-Rice or Brady-anyone? Had to think about, didn't you?

Nope.
Ok....I grant you.....Brady-anyone being defended by Deion whereas Montana-Rice being defended by Ty Law.....ok. Now it's a little tougher.  Is it the 4th quarter with the game on the line? Is it a blizzard in Gillette? Do we just have to go get a field goal with Viniateri kicking? Being coached by Belichick? Hmmmm......yeah I don't know. Probably Brady.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 23, 2018, 11:44:00 AM
One possible defense, skewed toward modern players:

Safety: Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed

Nickel Back: Darren Woodson

CB: Dion Sanders, Charles Woodson

ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher

OLB: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas

Defensive Line: Reggie White, J.J. Watt, Warren Sapp, John Randle

Defensive Coordinator: Buddy Ryan

Legitimately, would Brady even survive the game? He’d be pressured every throw.
Give me Gronk, Randy, and Edelman as the only receivers every play with Curtis Martin and/or maybe Kevin Faulk as an outlet. 

I simply don't believe a team of Pro Bowl OLs will be so utterly overwhelmed that Brady will be destroyed.

Give me what....Bruce Amrmstong, Hannah, Logan Mankins, Matt Light on the right side....whoever....Koppen, Waters. Thuney.  I don't care.

That defense will be sucking wind and taking aspirin after the game

First play.  Send Gronk right at LT on a sweep to bury him and tell him after the play "I thought you were good."

LT would break Gronk and Brady legs on the same play.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 23, 2018, 11:54:22 AM
You're just being an absurd fan, OP.

The only player the Pats have had who is the best at his position is Brady. When you look at the all-stars the rest of the league has had just in the last 30 or so years, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, Larry Allen, Bruce Smith,  Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown etc etc  then you start to realize just how preposterous your post was.

Yeah Peyton is a stretch.

What about the Gronk? Who is better?

Not a player, but who is a better coach than Belichick?

Brady, Belichick, and Gronk are tops at what they do.

They are. The NFL team would have the second best at those positions, and the best everywhere else, though.
But at the two most important spots (coach and QB)...we're better by a wide margin
That just isn't true. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 23, 2018, 12:07:08 PM
Quick question.  Who would you rather have? Montana-Rice or Brady-anyone? Had to think about, didn't you?

Nope.
Ok....I grant you.....Brady-anyone being defended by Deion whereas Montana-Rice being defended by Ty Law.....ok. Now it's a little tougher.  Is it the 4th quarter with the game on the line? Is it a blizzard in Gillette? Do we just have to go get a field goal with Viniateri kicking? Being coached by Belichick? Hmmmm......yeah I don't know. Probably Brady.
again Joe Flacco is 2-2 in the playoffs in New England against Tom Brady.  The first loss, was the game where the Ravens WR dropped a TD in the end zone and then Cundiff missed the game tying FG (the Ravens solved that problem by drafting the most accurate FG kicker in NFL history).  The second game, Brady had a nice comeback twice coming back from 14 down.  But again that is Joe Flacco and a pretty terrible offense at the skill positions.  Put the 2nd best QB ever, with the best OL ever, and the best WR corp and RB group ever, with a great TE (like Tony Gonzalez, Shannon Sharpe, or Antonio Gates in his prime), with the 2nd best coach ever (take your pick between Landry, Parcells, Knoll, etc.) with the best offensive and defensive coordinators ever, and the best defense ever.

It isn't a game.  No amount of willing it or homerism would make it game.  The Patriots would get crushed.


There is only 1 sport and 1 team that would have any shot at all against the field, and even the Yankees would be heavy underdogs in a series against the field.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 04:09:00 PM
One possible defense, skewed toward modern players:

Safety: Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed

Nickel Back: Darren Woodson

CB: Dion Sanders, Charles Woodson

ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher

OLB: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas

Defensive Line: Reggie White, J.J. Watt, Warren Sapp, John Randle

Defensive Coordinator: Buddy Ryan

Legitimately, would Brady even survive the game? He’d be pressured every throw.
Those guys are good players. None of them has the post season sacks record.

The record for most post season sacks in a game belongs to.....Willie McGinest...who quite likely will never make the HOF

And you know who has the record for most post season sacks? That would also be Willie McGinest.  He has 1.5 sacks more than the #2 guy who is Bruce Smith, despite playing in 2 less games.

Yeah I get that Reggie White was good. But in this game he's not going past Max Lane to get to Drew Bledsoe. In this game he's gotta go past Matt Light and if he gets close Tom is stepping up in the pocket and dumping off to Kevin Faulk who was helping on LT and then he is running right past Deion who wants no part of it.

Who do you think caused those interceptions and sacks in the Super Bowls? Why do you think Peyton Manning broke down every time he came to New England?
Tell me alllllll about how much better your DEs are than McGinest. Tell me all about it.

Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
Go through the stats of the Super Bowl wins of the Pats. Look at all the Pro Bowlers.

The Eagles had McNabb having the best year of his career. Two Pro Bowl tackles. Prime TO. Pro Bowler Brian Westbrook.

4 sacks. 3 interceptions.

Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 23, 2018, 04:50:25 PM
Go through the stats of the Super Bowl wins of the Pats. Look at all the Pro Bowlers.

The Eagles had McNabb having the best year of his career. Two Pro Bowl tackles. Prime TO. Pro Bowler Brian Westbrook.

4 sacks. 3 interceptions.
You mean the prime TO that missed the entire playoffs (except the Superbowl) with a leg injury.  And it was Donovan McNabb a career 59% passer who finished at only 2 to 1 in TD's to INT's and who barely had a top 10 offense on the season.  That the Patriots

You aren't helping your nonsensical argument, you are only making it worse. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Roy H. on January 23, 2018, 04:59:58 PM
Brady is magnificent, but he’s come up short in 10 of the 16 times he’s competed, with this year TBD.  His teams lose in the playoffs more than they win a title, which is true of just about everybody other than Bill Russell.

Against a team of, say, 41 of the top 45 players of all-time, they get crushed.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 23, 2018, 05:03:22 PM
Go through the stats of the Super Bowl wins of the Pats. Look at all the Pro Bowlers.

The Eagles had McNabb having the best year of his career. Two Pro Bowl tackles. Prime TO. Pro Bowler Brian Westbrook.

4 sacks. 3 interceptions.
You mean the prime TO that missed the entire playoffs (except the Superbowl) with a leg injury.  And it was Donovan McNabb a career 59% passer who finished at only 2 to 1 in TD's to INT's and who barely had a top 10 offense on the season.  That the Patriots

You aren't helping your nonsensical argument, you are only making it worse.
"leg injury" honestly sells it short. He had a broken leg and ligament damage and still was the most impressive player on the field in my estimation.

That was one of the most impressive individual performances I'd ever seen.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 05:04:15 PM
Go through the stats of the Super Bowl wins of the Pats. Look at all the Pro Bowlers.

The Eagles had McNabb having the best year of his career. Two Pro Bowl tackles. Prime TO. Pro Bowler Brian Westbrook.

4 sacks. 3 interceptions.
You mean the prime TO that missed the entire playoffs (except the Superbowl) with a leg injury.  And it was Donovan McNabb a career 59% passer who finished at only 2 to 1 in TD's to INT's and who barely had a top 10 offense on the season.  That the Patriots

You aren't helping your nonsensical argument, you are only making it worse.
Sure. Because the Pats have never done well when injured.  The Pats never have injuries.

TO got 122 yards in that game. I think he was ok
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: dreamgreen on January 23, 2018, 05:51:28 PM
I would argue the Patriots run has been with the least amount of HoF type players on it than any dynasty ever. So I disagree, but I do see your point of some of the talent they have had over the past almost 20 years!

Time to add #6 baby!

Also add IMO TB12 is the greatest winner ever of any sport!
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: KGs Knee on January 24, 2018, 03:18:56 AM
I would argue the Patriots run has been with the least amount of HoF type players on it than any dynasty ever. So I disagree, but I do see your point of some of the talent they have had over the past almost 20 years!

Time to add #6 baby!

Also add IMO TB12 is the greatest winner ever of any sport!

Yikes...

Of all the places I thought I'd never have to read such lunacy, it would be CelticsBlog.

You have heard of Bill Russell, right?  You know, the guy with more rings than fingers.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on January 24, 2018, 06:12:44 AM
Go through the stats of the Super Bowl wins of the Pats. Look at all the Pro Bowlers.

The Eagles had McNabb having the best year of his career. Two Pro Bowl tackles. Prime TO. Pro Bowler Brian Westbrook.

4 sacks. 3 interceptions.
You mean the prime TO that missed the entire playoffs (except the Superbowl) with a leg injury.  And it was Donovan McNabb a career 59% passer who finished at only 2 to 1 in TD's to INT's and who barely had a top 10 offense on the season.  That the Patriots

You aren't helping your nonsensical argument, you are only making it worse.
Sure. Because the Pats have never done well when injured.  The Pats never have injuries.

TO got 122 yards in that game. I think he was ok
TO was far from ok. He is just thay good, but imagine if he was 100%
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Rondo2287 on January 24, 2018, 06:49:18 AM
I would argue the Patriots run has been with the least amount of HoF type players on it than any dynasty ever. So I disagree, but I do see your point of some of the talent they have had over the past almost 20 years!

Time to add #6 baby!

Also add IMO TB12 is the greatest winner ever of any sport!

Brady, is winning in the NFL, the hardest league to have a dynasty.  Russell won in an NBA which was significantly less inclined to prevent dynasty’s

Yikes...

Of all the places I thought I'd never have to read such lunacy, it would be CelticsBlog.

You have heard of Bill Russell, right?  You know, the guy with more rings than fingers.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on March 03, 2018, 04:08:12 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 03, 2018, 05:21:44 PM
I think Gronk, and Brady will make the HoF out of the present team for sure.  Coach Bill Belichick will be in there, too.   I think those three are locks.   The other guys like the receivers like Edelman and Amendola are not even top all time in Patriots receivers.  They may get in for the big moments stuff though.  Will Welker even want to go into the Patriot Hall of Fame?   He has almost 2K more yards than Edelman and Amendola.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on March 03, 2018, 05:35:03 PM
Is there a single receiver you'd rather Brady go into a game with other than Edelman? Could anyone on Earth defend that? If there is a receiver I'd want it to be Troy Brown.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 03:12:35 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on March 13, 2018, 03:23:26 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
If you think winning an award or something somehow is evidence that a player is better than another......while the other is winning more....I mean sure. Go ahead. Put all the losers in the HOF. Let them have their yellow jackets while the Patriots are cleaning their rings.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 13, 2018, 03:23:52 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Brian Dawkins is definitely better than Rodney Harrison. Like they arent even close.

Ty Law should definitely be behind Champ Bailey. Again, not that close.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 13, 2018, 03:25:30 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
Harrison was very unpopular around the league. I think his resume far undersells his greatness.

He deserved much more recognition in terms of all-pro and pro-bowls than he got.

He still isnt in the same universe as Reed, Polamalu or Dawkins, but I don't think Harrison's awards accurately represent how good he really was.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 13, 2018, 03:26:06 PM
I would argue the Patriots run has been with the least amount of HoF type players on it than any dynasty ever. So I disagree, but I do see your point of some of the talent they have had over the past almost 20 years!

Time to add #6 baby!

Also add IMO TB12 is the greatest winner ever of any sport!

Yikes...

Of all the places I thought I'd never have to read such lunacy, it would be CelticsBlog.

You have heard of Bill Russell, right?  You know, the guy with more rings than fingers.
What Brady's done is more impressive imo.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 03:28:44 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Brian Dawkins is definitely better than Rodney Harrison. Like they arent even close.

Ty Law should definitely be behind Champ Bailey. Again, not that close.
Yeah I fully understand homerism, but the levels in this thread are by far the greatest levels I've ever seen. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 03:30:02 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
Harrison was very unpopular around the league. I think his resume far undersells his greatness.

He deserved much more recognition in terms of all-pro and pro-bowls than he got.

He still isnt in the same universe as Reed, Polamalu or Dawkins, but I don't think Harrison's awards accurately represent how good he really was.
I never said he wasn't good.  He was a very good player, but there is a reason he isn't in the HOF as he just wasn't HOF good. 
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 13, 2018, 03:32:31 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
Harrison was very unpopular around the league. I think his resume far undersells his greatness.

He deserved much more recognition in terms of all-pro and pro-bowls than he got.

He still isnt in the same universe as Reed, Polamalu or Dawkins, but I don't think Harrison's awards accurately represent how good he really was.
I never said he wasn't good.  He was a very good player, but there is a reason he isn't in the HOF as he just wasn't HOF good.
I never implied you said he wasnt good.

You built your whole argument on pro-bowls and all-pros and I think those things don't accurately represent how good Rodney was.

IDK if Sharper was better than Harrison and I don't really care how many pro-bowls he made.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 03:59:09 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
Harrison was very unpopular around the league. I think his resume far undersells his greatness.

He deserved much more recognition in terms of all-pro and pro-bowls than he got.

He still isnt in the same universe as Reed, Polamalu or Dawkins, but I don't think Harrison's awards accurately represent how good he really was.
I never said he wasn't good.  He was a very good player, but there is a reason he isn't in the HOF as he just wasn't HOF good.
I never implied you said he wasnt good.

You built your whole argument on pro-bowls and all-pros and I think those things don't accurately represent how good Rodney was.

IDK if Sharper was better than Harrison and I don't really care how many pro-bowls he made.

Sharper's got more years in prison than Harrison.

Absolute scumbag of a human being.
Title: Re: 30 years from now Patriots Hall of Fame will be better than actual hall of fame.
Post by: Eja117 on March 13, 2018, 04:00:15 PM
Ok, obviously my theory has taken a hit recently.

That said I want to make a last ditch effort to point some things out.

This is a link to the all Decade 2000s team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_2000s_All-Decade_Team)

It's not overly respectful to the Patriots

For example they want you to believe that Brian Dawkis and Darren Sharper were better safeties than Rodney.  Check out the 2nd team LBers. Should Ty Law be behind Champ Bailey? Is that who you'd rather have?

Also Bill Belichick is the only 3 time coach of the year since 1999. There are two guys that were two time coaches of the year and neither has won a Super Bowl

The Steelers have 9 HOFers from their dynasty. The Cowboys have 6 from the 90s.

I wonder how many the Pats will get from 5 Super Bowl wins and 3 losses.
Tom Brady is the only player that was on the first and last title the Patriots had.  It isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison with teams that had a short dominant run with basically the same core group.  That said, Brady might very well be the only HOFer that played on that first title team, well maybe Vinatieri gets in, but it is hard for kickers to make the HOF.

Brian Dawkins is entering the HOF this year.  Rodney Harrison is not in the HOF despite retiring a full 3 years before Dawkins.  The reason Dawkins is on the All Decade Team and Harrison is not, is quite simply because Dawkins was better than Harrison.  Sharper is a bit closer case, but Sharper had 5 Pro-Bowls and 2 1st Team All Pro.  Harrison had 2 of each (though he was a pro bowl one season he wasn't an all pro and was all pro a season he wasn't in the pro bowl which is just weird).  So Sharper by those that follow the sport had more great seasons compared to his peers than Harrison did.  In other words, Sharper was also better than Harrison.

There isn't some weird conspiracy against the Patriots, this is just a case of rose-colored glasses by a fan.   
Harrison was very unpopular around the league. I think his resume far undersells his greatness.

He deserved much more recognition in terms of all-pro and pro-bowls than he got.

He still isnt in the same universe as Reed, Polamalu or Dawkins, but I don't think Harrison's awards accurately represent how good he really was.
Rodney made all pro in TWO different years that he didn't make the Pro Bowl. The NFL can't even figure out their own awards let alone their HOF.