Do you wish sometimes the IT4 trade never happened?

[Csfan1984]

Absolutely not, But C's should not have pushed for the playoffs that year forcing multiple players to play banged up and team got swept. The tank should have been in effect still and another top 10 pick  (maybe Turner) would be on this team right now.

IT4/Rozier
AB/Smart
Crowder/Brown
Horford/AJ
Turner/KO

[GratefulCs]

No of course not.  That is just silly.

I will say this, without that trade, Boston likely doesn't make the playoffs two years ago and thus would likely have Winslow or Turner instead of Rozier.  That would have been the only real positive.

Can you imagine the state of the blog if we'd drafted Winslow right now? We probably would have Dunn in place of Jaylen, and would be picking mid-lottery with no end in sight to losing.

Fascinating how soon people forgot what the Draft Savant was willing to give up to pick Winslow.

But I digress. We're supposed to forget all of Ainge's draft mistakes. Doesn't fit the narrative.

I'm a big fan of Ainge, but that opinion is also shaped by the fact that he has gotten extremely lucky. There are moves he wanted to make that didn't happen that would have been disastrous.

His biggest strengths are his luck, patience and fearlessness. Granted he's probably more able to be lucky and fearless because of his job security.

On Roy's comment, I bet a some people on the blog would have been happier if things had turned out like that (which is baffling to me). The outcry of support for Dunn, mostly because pundits thought we should pick him was annoying to say the least.

I am actually a big fan of Trader Danny, although it would appear he's an even bigger fan of Trader Danny.

His alleged drafting acumen has been blown out of all proportion on this board, to levels only seen here in the rhapsodizing about the max contract Rondo deserved.

And we all know how that one worked out.

no one is saying he's the best drafter

but apparently there are a few people her who feel he should have grabbed  a superstar with all those mid 20s picks....

by the way, do you still hate the brown pick? curious...

I would have drafted Dunn and traded him to Chicago in the Butler deal with a song in my heart.

Jury is more than still out on Jaylen Brown, so I'm not going to join this blog in dusting off a spot for him in the Hall of Fame.

if that was available, then i hear ya

but if the bulls balked, we would have been stuck with dunn. he doesn't seem to be all that great (still early) and he would struggle to find playing time

tough to tell

PS: "the song in my heart" with regards to this team is "don't stop thinking about tomorrow"

[max215]

No.

Pros:  We have a PG having an MVP-level season.

Cons: Reading multiple threads disrespecting our PG having an MVP-level season

[saltlover]

Absolutely not, But C's should not have pushed for the playoffs that year forcing multiple players to play banged up and team got swept. The tank should have been in effect still and another top 10 pick  (maybe Turner) would be on this team right now.

This is silly.  Players don't tank.  Teams do, but players go out there and compete.  I'm glad Marcus Smart and Jae Crowder played their tails off that year.  IT was a nice addition, but he wasn't even starting, and only played in 21 games for the team.

The team finished three games above Miami for the coveted 10th pick.  There were three Eastern Conference teams between the Celtics and that pick.  The Celtics were trying to build a winning culture, and pulling the plug on the team with two weeks left in the season (what they would've needed to do to get to that pick) by playing Phil Pressey and James Young in place of Smart, Thomas, Crowder, and Evan Turner would have sent a terrible message.  Absolutely terrible.  (Not to mention Miami was losing that pick to Philly if it wound up 11th.  Once they'd decided to tank, they had a goal, and weren't going to give up that 10th spot.)

Would the optimal outcome have been that the team played really hard and ended up at 37 wins instead of 40? Maybe.  But it certainly wasn't ever going to be "management submarines upstart team's months of gritty effort for draft position."  That's not what winning franchises do.

I can't believe that, even after getting Jaylen Brown, with more two top lottery picks for the Nets staring us in the face, that people can't give up on missing out on a late lottery pick from a draft that's looking pretty questionable two years later.

The Heat and Pacers were supposedly the "better" teams that tanked to get those great picks.  How has that really worked out for either of them? Would you take either of their situations over the Celtics?  And I don't even mean future assets -- I mean the last two seasons.  It's not even debatable.

This Sehnsucht needs to go away.  (Sorry to break out the German, but English is incapable of expressing the problem.)

[green_bballers13]

No.

Pros:  We have a PG having an MVP-level season.

Cons: Reading multiple threads disrespecting our PG having an MVP-level season

Never thought of IT4 as a pg

He is more like a short sg

Hmmm.... he brings the ball up the court, calls plays, and covers the opposing team's point guard.

[Future Celtics Owner]

The better question is do you wish we never made the playoffs that year. After so much time repressing the negligent move by Ainge to keep(not waive/cut/buy-out)  ET, Jonas, Gigi, and BASS...especially after the trade deadline.

Remember I use to end all my posts with: draft Myles Turner. But it's okay because Ainge completely stole RJ Hunter...

youve also got to remember it means no Crowder, no Amir, probably no playoffs last year, no Durant meeting and no Horford.

I would not trade Horford, Crowder, Johnson, Rozier(lol), and Isaiah Thomas for Myles Turner.

We would not have had to trade IT to get Myles Turner.
3 games separated usfrom the 10/11th pick. My only real point is that we should not hold on to USURPERS aka vets that pad our regular season wins and then leave us immediately. IMO keep guys on the team that are in our future. Had Ainge done his job and hedged against a particularly bad East that year we would be in much better shape.

All he needed to do was waive/cut (after the deadline): Bass, Jonas, Gigi, and if I was in charge I would have looked into the same for ET after not being able to trade him by the deadline. Also, I would have had an exit plan for Sully and in more time KO.
Well after the deadline IMO we should have cut the players that were not in our immediate future: Bass, Jonas, Gigi....maybe we can agree to assume Ainge and Stevens saw something in Crowder.

The 3 big things:
1. We could have kept or traded IT and AB after the season or by the deadline of the next season.
2. In 2016 we could have had 2 top picks
3. In 2018 we could have 2 top picks

I get the position you are coming from...my position is much less popular than yours but because of the BKN picks we could have taken advantage of the draft unlike any other team has in as long as I know.

Hypothetical
Do you ever ask yourself what we will do when the time comes to sign IT and AB....would it have been better for us to have traded them when they had more time on their contracts? How are these 2 undersized players going to finish out their careers? What if they walk? If we draft a guard this year (Fultz or Smith) does one or both of them become expendable...especially since Jaylen can play the 2.

 How much longer can Horford go playing at this level? Playing the 5 may age him harder? If he is going to be our 4 then when will he start to be unable to defend 4's around the perimeter?

[ThaPreacher]

No.

Pros:  We have a PG having an MVP-level season.

Cons: Reading multiple threads disrespecting our PG having an MVP-level season

This.

I wish I could deduct TPs for everyone guilty of the cons.

Ad hominem- almost Trumpian!  Allow emotions to interrupt discussion to squash another's point of view,(whether they are sensible discussions or not......lol).
If we don't let people post their ideas-we wont' have a forum. And then we negate ourselves.
We would be the Anti-Celticsblog.

All of you who advocated for the "Cons" need to subtract 5 Tommy Points.
And you don't need to attack the poster for past opinions. minus -5 more for that crap.
Who are the moderators here? Let's go guys-moderate!



The post is a simply a question. And the great thing is: you get to respond.
And what I like about it (besides it reminding me of the recently retired-Larbrd33 kind of post)
is that it got alot of Celticbloggers who I enjoy reading, back online.
Now I don't consider him to be trolling. It's an interesting question.
(Remember, we loved Rondo around here until we didn't love Rondo. We hated on Avery Bradley until we learned to love Avery Bradley-though lately it seems we want to trade him again....lol). So why not IT4.  We're fans. He has flaws to his game. We can wish he never came here and elevated our franchise.  We can debate with civility points on both sides. But let's not flame on each other. I'm interested in what everyone has to say.

Distracts me from the memories of the Atlanta Hawks game, or reminding me that Lebron is possibly going to win another ring with KD going down.

So here is my response.

I think that IT4 was a great trade! He's done a great job of helping the Celtics become relevant again.  He's has been positive about Boston. He's attempted to recruit players. And he's enthusiasm is contagious. He's entertaining as hell.

And then there is his basketball!  Which frankly, is quite good. He is a force to be reckoned with.
Add one more legit outside shooting/scorer or a legit inside presence and IT would probably be a double/double.

We turned in a couple of white chips for a blue chip. And Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

Yeppers, I like the trade. I'm glad we have IT4.
Now let's see if he can elevate his game in the playoffs. Or lets trade him for Anthony Davis lol/jk.

[vjcsmoke]

Sure if you're a masochist and love to be sad then you'd wish the IT4 trade didn't happen so you'd be watching another 5 years of losing and hoping that we finally hit in the lottery and got a good player...

But personally, naah, loving IT4 in Boston.  OP if you wish the IT4 trade never happened you'll have to explain your reasoning.  Expect to be ridiculed anyways because it's a completely ludicrous thought.

[Csfan1984]

Absolutely not, But C's should not have pushed for the playoffs that year forcing multiple players to play banged up and team got swept. The tank should have been in effect still and another top 10 pick  (maybe Turner) would be on this team right now.

This is silly.  Players don't tank.  Teams do, but players go out there and compete.  I'm glad Marcus Smart and Jae Crowder played their tails off that year.  IT was a nice addition, but he wasn't even starting, and only played in 21 games for the team.

The team finished three games above Miami for the coveted 10th pick.  There were three Eastern Conference teams between the Celtics and that pick.  The Celtics were trying to build a winning culture, and pulling the plug on the team with two weeks left in the season (what they would've needed to do to get to that pick) by playing Phil Pressey and James Young in place of Smart, Thomas, Crowder, and Evan Turner would have sent a terrible message.  Absolutely terrible.  (Not to mention Miami was losing that pick to Philly if it wound up 11th.  Once they'd decided to tank, they had a goal, and weren't going to give up that 10th spot.)

Would the optimal outcome have been that the team played really hard and ended up at 37 wins instead of 40? Maybe.  But it certainly wasn't ever going to be "management submarines upstart team's months of gritty effort for draft position."  That's not what winning franchises do.

I can't believe that, even after getting Jaylen Brown, with more two top lottery picks for the Nets staring us in the face, that people can't give up on missing out on a late lottery pick from a draft that's looking pretty questionable two years later.

The Heat and Pacers were supposedly the "better" teams that tanked to get those great picks.  How has that really worked out for either of them? Would you take either of their situations over the Celtics?  And I don't even mean future assets -- I mean the last two seasons.  It's not even debatable.

This Sehnsucht needs to go away.  (Sorry to break out the German, but English is incapable of expressing the problem.)

This makes no sense guys were hurt they could have sat and you would have got that tenth pick. Smart lost like 4 months of feeling 100% in his ankle for what? IT wasn't 100% in that series with his back had he sat that is ten games. In multiple cases it was right to let guys heal and go for the higher pick. And let's not act as if the C's are above tanking. It's been done here multiple times.

[nickagneta]

Absolutely not, But C's should not have pushed for the playoffs that year forcing multiple players to play banged up and team got swept. The tank should have been in effect still and another top 10 pick  (maybe Turner) would be on this team right now.

This is silly.  Players don't tank.  Teams do, but players go out there and compete.  I'm glad Marcus Smart and Jae Crowder played their tails off that year.  IT was a nice addition, but he wasn't even starting, and only played in 21 games for the team.

The team finished three games above Miami for the coveted 10th pick.  There were three Eastern Conference teams between the Celtics and that pick.  The Celtics were trying to build a winning culture, and pulling the plug on the team with two weeks left in the season (what they would've needed to do to get to that pick) by playing Phil Pressey and James Young in place of Smart, Thomas, Crowder, and Evan Turner would have sent a terrible message.  Absolutely terrible.  (Not to mention Miami was losing that pick to Philly if it wound up 11th.  Once they'd decided to tank, they had a goal, and weren't going to give up that 10th spot.)

Would the optimal outcome have been that the team played really hard and ended up at 37 wins instead of 40? Maybe.  But it certainly wasn't ever going to be "management submarines upstart team's months of gritty effort for draft position."  That's not what winning franchises do.

I can't believe that, even after getting Jaylen Brown, with more two top lottery picks for the Nets staring us in the face, that people can't give up on missing out on a late lottery pick from a draft that's looking pretty questionable two years later.

The Heat and Pacers were supposedly the "better" teams that tanked to get those great picks.  How has that really worked out for either of them? Would you take either of their situations over the Celtics?  And I don't even mean future assets -- I mean the last two seasons.  It's not even debatable.

This Sehnsucht needs to go away.  (Sorry to break out the German, but English is incapable of expressing the problem.)

Csfan1984, along with triboy, has been one of the biggest advocates of tanking and turning this team into a bunch of teenagers on this site. His response in this thread by the OP is kind of expected. It is aggravating given what has transpired with this team over the last three years for people to still be lamenting not tanking. I feel ya, salty so have a TP.

[SHAQATTACK]

He saved us from being as bad as the Lakers.   Thus ....we owe him saving us fans from another 2-3 tank years.

Still .....he deserves to be handsomely rewarded ,   But I think the deal must be made with caution , as he maybe the bridge to,the next level and not the centerpiece

[Ilikesports17]

The better question is do you wish we never made the playoffs that year. After so much time repressing the negligent move by Ainge to keep(not waive/cut/buy-out)  ET, Jonas, Gigi, and BASS...especially after the trade deadline.

Remember I use to end all my posts with: draft Myles Turner. But it's okay because Ainge completely stole RJ Hunter...

youve also got to remember it means no Crowder, no Amir, probably no playoffs last year, no Durant meeting and no Horford.

I would not trade Horford, Crowder, Johnson, Rozier(lol), and Isaiah Thomas for Myles Turner.

We would not have had to trade IT to get Myles Turner.
3 games separated usfrom the 10/11th pick. My only real point is that we should not hold on to USURPERS aka vets that pad our regular season wins and then leave us immediately. IMO keep guys on the team that are in our future. Had Ainge done his job and hedged against a particularly bad East that year we would be in much better shape.

All he needed to do was waive/cut (after the deadline): Bass, Jonas, Gigi, and if I was in charge I would have looked into the same for ET after not being able to trade him by the deadline. Also, I would have had an exit plan for Sully and in more time KO.
Well after the deadline IMO we should have cut the players that were not in our immediate future: Bass, Jonas, Gigi....maybe we can agree to assume Ainge and Stevens saw something in Crowder.

The 3 big things:
1. We could have kept or traded IT and AB after the season or by the deadline of the next season.
2. In 2016 we could have had 2 top picks
3. In 2018 we could have 2 top picks

I get the position you are coming from...my position is much less popular than yours but because of the BKN picks we could have taken advantage of the draft unlike any other team has in as long as I know.

Hypothetical
Do you ever ask yourself what we will do when the time comes to sign IT and AB....would it have been better for us to have traded them when they had more time on their contracts? How are these 2 undersized players going to finish out their careers? What if they walk? If we draft a guard this year (Fultz or Smith) does one or both of them become expendable...especially since Jaylen can play the 2.

 How much longer can Horford go playing at this level? Playing the 5 may age him harder? If he is going to be our 4 then when will he start to be unable to defend 4's around the perimeter?

you explicitly want to suck until 2018.

[ThaPreacher]

No.

Pros:  We have a PG having an MVP-level season.

Cons: Reading multiple threads disrespecting our PG having an MVP-level season

Never thought of IT4 as a pg

He is more like a short sg

Hmmm.... he brings the ball up the court, calls plays, and covers the opposing team's point guard.

He is a shoot first, dribble drive, create my own offense kind of guard. So I can understand the thought.  But Tiny Archibald was that way for alot of years.  That is the role that Brad and Danny see for IT4 at the moment.  Though he could be a short shooting guard. A good one at that. I love it when we run him off screens.

[Rosco917]

As much as I suggest a different use for IT, to wish the trade never happened is crazy.

I can understand some thinking he's fools gold, that he'll fool you into thinking you have a point guard that will take you into the finals. He'll win regular season games for you, but playoffs...maybe another story, we'll see.

Try to think of him as an asset, as a 6th man, or a starter, or even trade bait...he has value. 

[cltc5]

Yes