Author Topic: Where are Eddie House & TAllen  (Read 16109 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« on: April 24, 2008, 01:15:33 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2632
  • Tommy Points: 442
I knwo some people are high on Cassell and other s aren't, think he shoots too much, doesn't play defense, etc.

I actually like Cassell coming in and just firing away in spurts, he can get us a quick 8-10 points if he's on, like he was last night. This is also fine if we have a particularly strong defensive team out there with him ( PJ, Powe, Posey, TAllen )

But my question, while I really like Cassell, I also liked what Eddie brings. He works very hard on D and also stretches the floor big time when he's on.

Do you suppose it's just match ups or is he being pushed to 3rd string.

Or is Doc continuing to let Cassell round into shape, knowing Eddie will be there when necessary.

Kind of the same for TA, is it just match ups?

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 01:19:58 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3795
  • Tommy Points: 89
  • You know my methods, Watson.
on the bench where they belong.

this is the playoffs...rotations get tightened and you don't coach the same way in the playoffs that you do during the regular season.  someone has to sit, and some guys become the odd men out.

eddie and tony can be thanked for their regular season contributions, and they may still play a huge role in these playoffs, but there's not enough minutes to go around.

we're winning big, so i'm not complaining...
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 01:20:01 PM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30893
  • Tommy Points: 3765
  • Yup
Doc talked about this a bit on WEEI this morning.  Basically, the rotation gets shortened for the playoffs and someone's got to lose out when that happens.  Nothing groundbreaking, but that's the gist of what he said.  They'll have their chances.
Yup

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 01:21:34 PM »

Offline the_Bird

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3244
  • Tommy Points: 176
Well, you can't play everybody.  TA hasn't been consistent enough, I don't think, to justify leapfrogging into the regular rotation; if you aren't playing TA for 25-30 minutes, you might as well not play him at all (for whatever reason, he usually isn't very good working spot minutes).

Eddie House...  I'm of the opinion that the offense has *generally* run smoother with Eddie at the helm than with Cassell.  Sam's still finding his place on the team, and I'm sure Doc's using these pretty comfortable games as a way of getting him gelled in; but it's weird for me to say this, but I feel more comfortable with Eddie in the backup PG role than with Cassell at this moment.  The other players seem to respond to Eddie's energy level, whereas there *are* too many Sam-led possessions that don't have nearly the same level of ball movement; it's just Sam finding an opening to get a shot off.  

So, yeah, when the games get tougher - I'd like to see a bit more Eddie, a bit less Sam (unless Sam starts getting his teammates involved a bit more).

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 01:39:48 PM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30933
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • What a Pub Should Be
I can't really find fault with Doc's rotations these first two games. The only mild surprise to me was PJ Brown getting some non-garbage time run.  I was under the assumption heading towards the playoffs that House would evolve more into a situational player come playoff time and that has been the case these first two games.  The circumstances really haven't developed for House's game.  This team hasn't needed a three pointer specialist in the game besides the final possessions of the quarters because they've been in control of both of these games.  Therefore, House' biggest strength hasn't been necessitated yet.  I think you'll see more House in tighter games deeper into the playoffs where a 3 pointer is needed or Doc just feels more comfortable with House out there instead of Cassell due to matchups.

In regards to TA, he just hasn't been consistent enough in his game all season to really justify a lot of minutes.  His play hasn't warranted minutes in the playoffs.  This whole mix and match of Pierce, Allen, and Posey has been effective to the point where there is no need for Tony.  Also, the minutes are going up again for the New Three so that closes the window on opportunities that Tony could see out on the floor in anything besides real garbage time.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 01:46:58 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
I actually think the 7 or so minutes sam gets a night are fine, though i didn't like it when it was him and ray and no true bigs last night. Sam's a really good change up who can score alot of points when he's in, but he needs a big so that when he gets in trouble he can fire into the post.

As to tony, as others have mentioned, you can't play a guy who justifably earned the nickname "human turnover machine" in the playoffs. you just can't. Mabey as a defensive guy against teams with better driving 2 gaurds, but joe has wanted to shoot jumpers all series (for some reason) and thus ray is fine on him. Rondo is destorying all comers defensivly at the 1, so no minutes as a defnsive specilist for tony thier either.

My only complanit with doc's rotations the last 2 nights is riding sam alittle long last night. Love what sam brings, but as doc, you almost have to ride the wave with him. When he's on and out there, run him, cause hes going to surge for 8-14 points. but when the shots off, pull him earlier. thought he might have been out there 2 minutes to long last night, 6-8 is the perfect amount for sam.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 02:07:26 PM »

Online Celtic

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3770
  • Tommy Points: 55
  • TRANSFORMATION INTO CHAMPION COMPLETE!!!
I still think the C's have two backup point guards for different situations, Cassell to dictate the pace, post up and run a more structured offense, House for speed, points and a tempo changer off the bench. I would be surprised if there isn't a game this playoffs were we all are thanking Eddie for coming into a game and lighting it up. TA on the other hand, just isn't gonna get on the court unless it's serious garbage time, too turnover prone, too reckless, he may be a good defender but against good teams in the playoffs he will be exposed on the other end of the court. Hopefully Scal gets in a game, even if it's garbage time, he deserves to be able to say he played in the playoffs for the championship Celtics.

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 02:27:53 PM »

Offline FatoineLover

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 363
  • Tommy Points: 23
I think Doc should be sticking with House, the backup point guard that got this team to 66 wins. House keeps the offense running, is a better defender, and a better jump shooter. Sam is fine against a team like the Hawks but he will kill us against the Pistons. Everything just stops when he is in the game. It reminds me of the old Paul Pierce when he had no support and never passed.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 02:33:14 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
I think Doc should be sticking with House, the backup point guard that got this team to 66 wins. House keeps the offense running, is a better defender, and a better jump shooter. Sam is fine against a team like the Hawks but he will kill us against the Pistons. Everything just stops when he is in the game. It reminds me of the old Paul Pierce when he had no support and never passed.

House does not keep the offense running.  Against good defensive teams, the offense more often than not completely stalls when House is in there.  You will really see the difference Cassell makes in the later rounds.  He will move the ball when he needs to, but will not make superfluous passes that serve no purpose (House does this all the time), and he will actually get the defense on their heals.

Defensively, House is not much better than Cassell.  There have been a couple matchups that he has done well on, but again, in the playoffs, Cassell will be a good defender, because it will be mostly in halfcourt sets, where the team defense will take over, and allow him to use his intelligence to keep the other man in check.

As for shooting...you are right if you are talking about 3 pointers, but every other shot on the floor, Cassell is dramatically better at.  Cassell is one of the best mid range shooters in the NBA, and can still get to the hoop. 

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 02:33:26 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
and for that reason doc will probley play eddie vs the pistons.

during the season, when he had both, he showed no problems about playing eddie against faster teams with better PG's (PHX and NO sam was third off the bench)

agree with most of what you said on eddie, but he's not a better jump shooter than sam. He's a better spot up 3 point guy. The reason doc likes sam out there with the second unit guys is because sam can get his own shot with his post game, eddie can't get his own shot.

There both good, but right now the situation calls for sam, since atlanta has no one who can truly punish us at the point with drives, there all jumpshooters. thus sam's fine, there just going to chuck away.

I predict when we get to a team who has a driving PG (det) eddie gets the sub minutes, and rondo plays more overall.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 03:08:59 PM »

Offline 2short

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6080
  • Tommy Points: 428
I'd like to think  ::) Doc has a complete handle on it and the minutes are situational.
Much like Davis' minutes shrinking, if we need a heavy duty body at backup pf or center he'll get more minutes.  We need a good ball handler to bring the ball up with defensive pressure Sam.
I actually like Eddie in there better, defense is much better he's a serious shooter.  Maybe it'll end up if Eddies hot he gets minutes?
Now Tony Allen...he is important to the team and can still help defensively in the playoffs.  His game is completely thinking & confidence (or lack of).  This years TA has been inconsistent, turnover prone etc.  A Tony playing as good as he can is a lock down defender and starting shooting guard (see last year)
#17

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 03:13:40 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
A Tony playing as good as he can is a lock down defender and starting shooting guard (see last year)
#17

Tony has not played much worse this year than he did last year.  The difference is, this year he is playing on a team where the mental mistakes are amplified, because they are actually in the games, plus, he is being asked to play within a system, rather than just go out there and basically play streetball.

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2008, 03:15:53 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
yea, i think it will be situational. again though, eddie is not a great scorer from anywhere but spot up 3 (where he's phenominal). sam is a much better shooter from everywhere but deep, and doesn't need a screen to get a good shot. against ATL's gaurds, who aren't great drivers, sam's liablity and 38 year old legs are hidden on defense.


as to tony, im sorry, his defense doesn't justify much other than a spot minute here or there. not when ray is out there and playing well, and pose has the 3.

In the playoffs, turnovers kill you. Tony can't dribble sometimes without turning it over. He's simply not a guy you can play much in the playoffs. think back, remeber all those 20 TO games where we went "man we can't do that in the playoffs." on most of them, TA had 4 or so in limited minutes.

Love the kid, if you can't protect the rock, you ride the pine in the playoffs.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2008, 03:34:34 PM »

Offline 2short

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6080
  • Tommy Points: 428
A Tony playing as good as he can is a lock down defender and starting shooting guard (see last year)
#17

Tony has not played much worse this year than he did last year.  The difference is, this year he is playing on a team where the mental mistakes are amplified, because they are actually in the games, plus, he is being asked to play within a system, rather than just go out there and basically play streetball.
A good point, I will say last year when he was really on is a big difference between this year's play.  Our team's system this year is soooo far changed from last years 1 on 1 mentality.
Does this mean Tony's heading to free agency.

Re: Where are Eddie House & TAllen
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2008, 04:00:33 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3816
  • Tommy Points: 127
Eddie's on the bench watching Sam play "Pop-a-shot" like the rest of us.
TA is on the bench where the human turnover machine belongs.