Author Topic: Skinny Lebron  (Read 48623 times)

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Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2014, 05:09:52 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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I think the real question here, regardless of whether Lebron and Carmelo juiced at all, is how will this affect their playing style? Will it limit their abilities to play stretch four because they lost so much size? Will Lebron still be able to get to the hoop at will without a considerable strength advantage (with just his balance, quickness, and coordination)? Will they both still be able to drive to the basket and finish through contact at an elite level? How will their rebounding numbers be affected? I'm interested in the basketball aspect of things, as I think losing 20-30 lbs. (allegedly) will affect Lebron and Melo's games exponentially.

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2014, 05:10:50 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote
did you really just equate people's speculations about steroid use to chemtrails and new world order gun conspiracies?

If you do not think proathletes looks for a chemical edge, your beyond naive...

If you can't use 'you're/your' correctly, you're probably not one to talk.   ;)

At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2014, 05:22:04 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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You can easily lose 20 pounds in two months just by cutting out high calorie items like pop and upping your activity.

2 months = 8 weeks

2.5 pounds a week = 1250 calorie deficit daily roughly (assuming you're losing fat primarily)

A single can of pop is 140 - 180 calories roughly just depends on the particular soda. Plenty of people drink 5+ cans of pop a day.

If everything inside the body is working like it is suppose to work then "efficient caloric burn" will be at its pinnacle execution/function.
It's exactly how it's working, most of the time. It's just that most people can't or won't sustain large caloric deficits.
This couldn't be more wrong.  Didn't you read his post?

It's pretty common knowledge that if you cut all the fat out of your diet (or a large amount of calories in general) that your body will go into a "survival" mode, where it tries to hold onto your fat deposits and keep them on reserve, rather than burning them for energy.  This is why the body can live 2-3 weeks without food, but is completely zapped of energy after 1-2 days.

It has way less to do with people being unable to sustain large caloric deficits, and way more to do with people sustaining large caloric deficits being unable to sustain the amount of physical activity to lose the weight.

Losing weight is basically 80% exercise, 20% diet.  Someone like Phelps who ate 10,000 calories a day while training for the Olympics had his body performing at "pinnacle execution/function"  Our bodies aren't even close to that ballpark.
I concede that you can have unhealthy eating habits regardless of whether you eat too much or too little, based on the actual composition on your diet. That's not the point, though. The point is that ultimately weight loss depends on the caloric balance. You always lose weight when you're on a caloric deficit -- depending on what you eat and how much you exercise, the loss is some combination of fat and muscle.

By the way, I quite disagree that weight loss is 80% exercise. I'd probably peg it closer to 80% nutrition, although it's a little more complicated than that, obviously. But it's worth pointing out that the "mere" 1200 caloric deficit may be as much as half of the calorie maintenance level of a moderately active person who's trying to lose weight, so...
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2014, 07:10:02 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Losing weight is taking in fewer calories than you are burning; that's what it "basically" is. Exercise is helpful for a variety of things, including (but not limited to) losing weight, but it's not required. I'm burning 1kCal/min just by existing. I can lose weight with no exercise whatsoever by cutting my daily caloric intake to ~1500 kCal or so.

It's true that "starvation mode" is a thing, but your body can only conserve energy to a certain extent: you are always going to need a certain amount for basic metabolic processes, and keeping your brain alive. We can be pretty efficient, but we can't break the basic laws of thermodynamics.

It's not exactly about fewer amounts of calories that one ingests into the body. It's more about what type of calories your body wants to use to perform jobs, work, activity (internal or external).

Different organs have specific jobs to work on. To do these works, they need the calories from specific macronutrients.

A calorie in physics is not the same as the Calorie in food/metabolism. Our internal system's "radars" identifies the Calorie from food differently. 1 radar picks up the readings of Calories from Fat, another radar picks up the reading of Calories from Protein, and another radar can read the Calorie from Carbohydrates.

After properly distinguishing these Calories from different Macronutrients, our body sends them to the right organ to conduct the metabolic work.

Just like different basketball players have different jobs to perform, if your PG is leading your team in BLK or your center is leading your team in ASTs, something is not quite "right".

Or what about in/poor ability to do work? What if your PG is the greatest passer, with the greatest court vision, but he is the worst basketball dribbler ever?

Likewise what if your big man C/PF are the tallest, strongest physique, but they have the weakest fingers and poor dexterity in their hands and they can't rebound or catch the freaking ball?

The Laws of Thermodynamics are accurate in a closed system. The human body is not a closed system, therefore, these physics Laws cannot be accurately applied towards the workings of the human body.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 07:23:47 PM by LB3533 »

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2014, 07:28:26 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Skinny James =. La bron

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2014, 07:54:20 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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It's not exactly about fewer amounts of calories that one ingests into the body. [...]

Which is why I used the word "basically". For the purposes of the point (exercise is not needed to lose weight, baseline burn is enough), the specifics aren't important.

Quote
The Laws of Thermodynamics are accurate in a closed system. The human body is not a closed system, therefore, these physics Laws cannot be accurately applied towards the workings of the human body.

And that's why you didn't see any equations in my post. I bring up the Laws because it's a pretty succinct way to illustrate the point that nothing is free in the universe. Keeping the bag of meat going requires energy, and we don't do photosynthesis yet, so it's coming from food.

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2014, 08:46:01 PM »

Offline Clench123

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All you guys crying steroids or HGH still hasn't answered my question.  He has performed in few Olympic games where they have a strict testing policy on these drugs.  And I'm sure he got tested.  How come he hasn't been busted yet if he's using?

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Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2014, 11:17:46 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Losing weight is taking in fewer calories than you are burning; that's what it "basically" is. Exercise is helpful for a variety of things, including (but not limited to) losing weight, but it's not required. I'm burning 1kCal/min just by existing. I can lose weight with no exercise whatsoever by cutting my daily caloric intake to ~1500 kCal or so.

It's true that "starvation mode" is a thing, but your body can only conserve energy to a certain extent: you are always going to need a certain amount for basic metabolic processes, and keeping your brain alive. We can be pretty efficient, but we can't break the basic laws of thermodynamics.

It's not exactly about fewer amounts of calories that one ingests into the body. It's more about what type of calories your body wants to use to perform jobs, work, activity (internal or external).

Different organs have specific jobs to work on. To do these works, they need the calories from specific macronutrients.

A calorie in physics is not the same as the Calorie in food/metabolism. Our internal system's "radars" identifies the Calorie from food differently. 1 radar picks up the readings of Calories from Fat, another radar picks up the reading of Calories from Protein, and another radar can read the Calorie from Carbohydrates.

After properly distinguishing these Calories from different Macronutrients, our body sends them to the right organ to conduct the metabolic work.

Just like different basketball players have different jobs to perform, if your PG is leading your team in BLK or your center is leading your team in ASTs, something is not quite "right".

Or what about in/poor ability to do work? What if your PG is the greatest passer, with the greatest court vision, but he is the worst basketball dribbler ever?

Likewise what if your big man C/PF are the tallest, strongest physique, but they have the weakest fingers and poor dexterity in their hands and they can't rebound or catch the freaking ball?

The Laws of Thermodynamics are accurate in a closed system. The human body is not a closed system, therefore, these physics Laws cannot be accurately applied towards the workings of the human body.

Where are you getting your information from?  Because it's flat out incorrect.

There are no "types" of calories in food.  A calorie, as you actually stated earlier, is a unit of energy.  Excluding the thermic effect of food or energy costs from metabolic processing (which are relatively miniscule), one calorie from lipids has the same energy value as one calorie from carbohydrate. 

Your body does not "distinguish calories" and "send these calories to the right organs".  This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read and demonstrates that you do not understand the physiology behind nutrient digestion, absorption, and metabolism, nor the processes by which the body produces energy through glycolysis, the Krebs cycle, and the electron transport chain.  It distinguishes macronutrients, not calories.

The body's organs run on a mixture of macronutrients, primarily glucose and lipids, with exception of the brain which preferentially uses glucose as a primary fuel (or ketones, in states of starvation or severe dietary carbohydrate restriction).  The only other "organ", or tissue that runs exclusively on glucose are red blood cells.

The body is adaptive.  Working muscle can catabolize glucose.  It catabolizes lipids, and even small amounts of amino acids, such as leucine, for fuel.  Other organs are similar in that they use mixed fuel sources.  In fact, what your organs use as fuel can depend heavily on what you just ate at your last meal; for example, if you ate a very high-fat meal, your body will increase fat as a metabolic fuel for hours following that meal (this should not be confused with increased caloric expenditure).  Take a look at research studies pertaining to meal composition and the respiratory quotient if you're interested.  But again, the body does not "distinguish calories and send them to the right organs". 

I could give a much more long-winded, detailed post of how most of the things you wrote are incorrect, but it's probably not worth the effort and it would further derail the topic of whether LeBron juices or not.  But please stop spreading misinformation if you don't know what you're talking about.  There's enough inaccurate - and in some cases downright harmful - misinformation pertaining to nutrition on the internet already.

And yes, weight loss - actual loss of body mass, not water weight - results from negative energy balance.  It has nothing to do with "types of calories", which doesn't exist in the first place.

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2014, 11:32:26 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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All you guys crying steroids or HGH still hasn't answered my question.  He has performed in few Olympic games where they have a strict testing policy on these drugs.  And I'm sure he got tested.  How come he hasn't been busted yet if he's using?

It is my understanding that there are no real reliable/ practical tests to detect HGH.

http://www.secondsout.com/usa-boxing-news/usa-boxing-news/drug-testing-for-hgh-scientifically-valid-or-just-politically-correct

Quote
First, the best experts in the field report there is no good test for HGH. At present, there is no urine test that works. And Dr. Don H. Caitlin, head of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Lab and for many years one of the most knowledgeable experts in the area - possibly the most knowledgeable ? has stated that he believes blood testing is impractical. He points out that, out of 1,500 blood tests, only one came back positive for HGH despite a well-founded suspicion that HGH use is far more prevalent. In part, this is because the detection limit is short, about 24 hours. In other words, the athlete would have had to use HGH within approximately 24 hours of the test to actually be caught.

Further, the one athlete who was ?busted? for HGH after testing admitted to use. Many scientists do not believe that, if it came to proving the scientific validity of the WADA drug testing protocols for HGH in Court or before an arbitrator, the results would survive legal challenge based upon scientific validity. Dr. Peter Sonksen, a pioneer in the field of HGH testing, says ?There?s very little new [data verifying the WADA test], and I think it would be quite easy for a lawyer to draw ?cart and horses through it in Court.? This charge is echoed by epidemiologist Dr. Charles E. Yesalis of Penn State, who contends that the scientific data to back the testing protocols is insufficient to the point of being ?almost criminal.?

Dr. Caitlin has said flatly that the method of testing used by WADA ?alone doesn?t work. It?s political. The whole thing is political.?

And in summation:

Quote
Drs. Caitlin, Sonksen and Yesalis are not advocates for abuse of drugs in sport. To the contrary, they are respected researchers who have done much to attempt to eliminate performance enhancing drugs in sport. Dr. Caitlin heads the most respected drug testing laboratory in the United States and developed the test which broke the Balco scandal. Dr. Sonksen is a fellow of the Royal Society of Physicians with some 315 scientific publications, many on this very topic. Dr. Yesalis co-authored the first comprehensive surveys of teen steroid use.

Caitlin, Sonksen, and others are working on legitimate, more reliable tests for HGH. While it may appear politically correct and provide a good ?sound bite? to jump on the bandwagon for drug-free sports, the truth is that the blood testing suggested for HGH is, at best, limited and impractical and at worst scientifically suspect. Efforts should be toward developing tests that work and then implementing them; not in pretending that there are good and generally accepted scientifically valid testing techniques when there are not.

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2014, 11:42:45 PM »

Offline mgent

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Your body absolutely can distinguish between lipids, sugars, and protein.

You're saying if I try to run my body on 2000 calories worth of beer per day, it's not going to know the difference from an energy standpoint?  A calorie is just a calorie?  You think the FDA forces all companies to put the percentage of calories from fat on all packages because they think it's funny?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2014, 11:43:01 PM »

Offline Clench123

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csfan, thanks for that info.

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
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Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2014, 11:55:31 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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That is the first link that comes up when you search HGH Drug testing, but reading the whole thing it comes across as very "if than criteria, then this posibility could," which makes sense, since a lawyer wrote it.

What's interesting are the parts that C'sfan didn't quote. He ends his first quote here:

Quote
Further, anyone who has ever been involved in Olympic style testing knows its flaws and limitations. Blood tests, if done randomly, are exceedingly infrequent. Athletes who are subject to in-and-out-of-competition testing go years with no blood tests (though urine testing is another matter).

Further, unannounced Olympic-style testing involves a level of intrusion that few professional athletes can or would countenance.

And starts his second quote here:


Quote
Drs. Caitlin, Sonksen and Yesalis are not advocates for abuse of drugs in sport. To the contrary, they are respected researchers who have done much to attempt to eliminate performance enhancing drugs in sport.

While ignoring the bit between the two, here:


Quote

Dr. Caitlin has said flatly that the method of testing used by WADA “alone doesn’t work. It’s political. The whole thing is political.”

Further, anyone who has ever been involved in Olympic style testing knows its flaws and limitations. Blood tests, if done randomly, are exceedingly infrequent. Athletes who are subject to in-and-out-of-competition testing go years with no blood tests (though urine testing is another matter).

Further, unannounced Olympic-style testing involves a level of intrusion that few professional athletes can or would countenance.As an example, spur of the moment activities must be reported to WADA, according to the rules, 24 hours in advance. If an athlete decides to go to the shore on a sunny day, to go to assist a friend, or any of the plethora of activities of which we all partake every week, it must be reported to WADA in advance. This is tough enough to do with college athletes, more or less captive on campuses and virtually impossible with professionals with normal lives. In recognition of its difficulty, athletes are permitted to miss three tests due to unavailability before action is taken. That brings us right back to the testing protocols. If HGH is detectable for only 24 hours, all an athlete needs to do is to arrange to be unavailable for testing the following day.

So what's  being left out of the post is any mention of the the fact that there are ways to test for HGH -- ways that are impractical, and unlikely to survive a bargaining table between the players and the owners, but tests none the less.

This is, I have to say, a significant step up from pictures on the internet. We've gone all the way to articles on the internet. With real words and everything.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2014, 11:58:45 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Np.....thanks for taking the time to read it....TP

Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2014, 12:05:13 AM »

Offline Clench123

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Does anyone know if a drug test can detect past usage of said drug even though the person isn't using it anymore?  If these NBA players (my boy Lebron included) are using this stuff, they need to be ousted.  And if they do, their championship rings need to be taken away.  F 'em. 

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
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Re: Skinny Lebron
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2014, 12:05:13 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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TP to you, too.

Peter King had a good article on HGH in football last year (and normally I'm not a big Peter King Fan): http://mmqb.si.com/2013/07/24/hgh-test/

Its longwinded, because, you know, Peter King, but there was one really interesting paragraph about the hurdles with HGH testing that the other one doesn't address:

Quote
If Esiason is anywhere in the ballpark about the prevalence of HGH use, then an NFL-specific population study will give results that are massively skewed by current HGH users. Adolpho Birch, the NFL’s senior vice president of law and labor policy, told me last month that the league does not believe an NFL study makes sense but that “the goal the commissioner set is to get testing. Without being too specific, we’re willing to do what needs to be done to get that.” But it absolutely doesn’t make sense under any circumstances if the study is just going to a give a profile of a community rife with HGH users. In fact, if the results of the test will only be used to establish the limits—a letter the union sent to its members said no other use would be made of the data, meaning no retroactive discipline for a high HGH level—a cynic might suggest that NFL players should make sure to use HGH before their blood is drawn for the population study. Then the decision limits might be set so high that nobody will ever fail a test. It would be like using the NBA as a reference population for a height study.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.