A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[Moranis]

I'm curious to see how Cersei dies in the books, as it's prophesied that she'll die by the hand of a sibling.

At least The Mountain got an iconic death.  Cersei and the Night King both went out with a whimper unbefitting of their stature.

In the books, I think Cersei dies before Dany even lands in Westeros. I doubt she survives fAegon and the Golden Company.

I don't I think Cersei beats them.  Also wouldn't it be funny if fake Aegon isn't actually fake and he really is Rhaegar and Ellia's son.  Not the prince who was promised but not fake either.

Are you saying he'll beat Cersei, or he won't? My reasoning is that in the show, it really doesn't make a lot of sense for the Golden Company to back Cersei at this point, even if she has the gold to pay them (somehow). Everyone hates her, and she's clearly going to lose. But replace Cersei with fAegon,  everything make much more sense. He's a likable figure that freed the peasants from the evil tyrant Cersei, and (supposedly) has a stronger claim to the throne than Dany. I'm thinking it's a good possibility that D and D didn't want to introduce such an important character so late into the story, so they simply replaced his plot with Cersei.

certainly could play out that way, but everything we know about Aegon is geared about him wanting to marry Dany and rule with her, I'm not sure a real conflict would exist between them, now an Aegon vs. Aegon war would be interesting but I can't see that working out from a timing perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because it has been a while, but weren't the Arianne chapters suggesting that she and Aegon were likely going to marry, allying him with Dorne? Plus even if he wants to rule with Dany, I don't think she would be one to share the throne with anyone. Watching Westeros prefer Aegon instead of her could be the thing that pushes Dany over the edge.

I thought he was headed to Dany to propose, but Tyrion suggested that he would be in a better position if he had an army and land in Westeros so he went that way instead to build up a base.  And Dorne isn't much for incest while the Targs don't seem to mind that, so he seems more suited for Dany in that regard anyway.

[Silky]

The only thing that really bugged me was the dragons fire.

Being someone who has loved all things dragon for his entire life, I have never seen anywhere where dragons fire acts like explosions blowing what would be feet thick of stone apart. But only burning humans.

[ederson]

The only thing that really bugged me was the dragons fire.

I have never seen anywhere where dragons fire acts like explosions blowing what would be feet thick of stone apart

i imagine nobody has

[slamtheking]

The only thing that really bugged me was the dragons fire.

Being someone who has loved all things dragon for his entire life, I have never seen anywhere where dragons fire acts like explosions blowing what would be feet thick of stone apart. But only burning humans.

well obviously that was caused by the explosive mortar they used when building the walls/houses   

[liam]

Is Bran going to Warg into Drogon and rip the mother of dragons apart?

[PhoSita]

The only thing that really bugged me was the dragons fire.

Being someone who has loved all things dragon for his entire life, I have never seen anywhere where dragons fire acts like explosions blowing what would be feet thick of stone apart. But only burning humans.

That bothered me too.

 

Especially because in the books, one of the most famous examples of dragons attacking a castle is Harrenhal.


From the wiki:

Harrenhal's walls were too high and too thick, and well-stocked enough to withstand a siege. During a parley outside the castle, Aegon offered to confirm Harren as Lord of the Iron Islands, provided he would yield. Harren refused, trusting in the strength of his castle, confident that the stone would not burn. Aegon warned him that the line of House Hoare would come to an end that night, at which Harren returned to his castle. To his men, he promised riches and the daughters of the riverlords to anyone who could slay Aegon's dragon, Balerion, in the upcoming battle.[1]

When the sun had gone down, Aegon flew Balerion high above Harrenhal, before plunging down upon Harrenhal, burning the castle beneath him. All that was flammable, both suplies and ironmen, caught fire within the castle, while Harrenhal's stone towers cracked and melted. The rivermen outside observed that the towers glowed and melted like candles.[1] Harren and his sons died in the largest of the towers of Harrenhal, which would later give the tower its name: Kingspyre Tower.[5] With their deaths, House Hoare was extinguished.

The whole notion of the dragon heating the towers of Harrenhal so much that they glowed and melted makes absolutely no sense if a dragon's breath is so powerful that it can actually explode stone fortifications the way Drogon did in Episode 5.  The towers would have simply been blown apart long before the fire made the stone hot enough to melt.


It's really quite astounding how the dragons went from being practically useless in Episode 3 and easily killed in Episode 4 to a totally invulnerable weapon of mass destruction in Episode 5.


Once again, the only explanation for any of it that makes sense is "Because that's what the plot demanded."

[fairweatherfan]

Once again, the only explanation for any of it that makes sense is "Because that's what the plot demanded."

The plot didn't really demand dragonfire blowing up stuff, nothing substantively changes if she's just melting the rock, still easy to find a way to have the Red Keep falling apart. Looking cool demanded it.

Besides, the obvious explanation is that dragon fire gets stronger when they're angrier, on account of it makes em magic harder.

[nickagneta]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire. There are many types of dragons in the world of D&D with lots of different types of fire. Heck some dragons shoot ice in those games.

Is the shows depiction of dragonfire different than described in the books? Sure. Does that make it wrong? Hell no. Just different. I have no problem with explosive dragon fire. In most of the shots of the dragons in battle, even when much younger and smaller, showed a rolling explosive fire.

[Roy H.]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire. There are many types of dragons in the world of D&D with lots of different types of fire. Heck some dragons shoot ice in those games.

Is the shows depiction of dragonfire different than described in the books? Sure. Does that make it wrong? Hell no. Just different. I have no problem with explosive dragon fire. In most of the shots of the dragons in battle, even when much younger and smaller, showed a rolling explosive fire.

The show can make its own rules. They should strive for internal consistency, though. Two dragons were borderline useless in Winterfell; one can now defeat entire cities and fleets by itself.

[nickagneta]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire. There are many types of dragons in the world of D&D with lots of different types of fire. Heck some dragons shoot ice in those games.

Is the shows depiction of dragonfire different than described in the books? Sure. Does that make it wrong? Hell no. Just different. I have no problem with explosive dragon fire. In most of the shots of the dragons in battle, even when much younger and smaller, showed a rolling explosive fire.

The show can make its own rules. They should strive for internal consistency, though. Two dragons were borderline useless in Winterfell; one can now defeat entire cities and fleets by itself.

To be fair, the two dragons at Winterfell were fighting another dragon and ended up seriously wounding it. When they weren't, they wiped out giant amounts of the undead in front of the castle.

And obviously Dany learned her lesson about how to use the dragon. She wiped out the fleet because she emerged into battle using the sunlight to make it difficult to see them in a kamakazi dive. Once she hit the first group, the rest of the fleet was too slow to react.

And the ballistas on the castle didn't seem to have very good ability to move in a circle so once Dany got past the first volley, she was over the inside of the city with the ballistas facing the wrong direction, so she just destroyed them all.

I see the whole attack as very believable. Way more realistic than three ballistas having perfect shots and killing Danny's other dragon.

[fairweatherfan]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire.

NONSENSE!

[liam]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire.

NONSENSE!

I believe the word you're looking for is POPPYCOCK! 

[Moranis]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire. There are many types of dragons in the world of D&D with lots of different types of fire. Heck some dragons shoot ice in those games.

Is the shows depiction of dragonfire different than described in the books? Sure. Does that make it wrong? Hell no. Just different. I have no problem with explosive dragon fire. In most of the shots of the dragons in battle, even when much younger and smaller, showed a rolling explosive fire.

The show can make its own rules. They should strive for internal consistency, though. Two dragons were borderline useless in Winterfell; one can now defeat entire cities and fleets by itself.

To be fair, the two dragons at Winterfell were fighting another dragon and ended up seriously wounding it. When they weren't, they wiped out giant amounts of the undead in front of the castle.

And obviously Dany learned her lesson about how to use the dragon. She wiped out the fleet because she emerged into battle using the sunlight to make it difficult to see them in a kamakazi dive. Once she hit the first group, the rest of the fleet was too slow to react.

And the ballistas on the castle didn't seem to have very good ability to move in a circle so once Dany got past the first volley, she was over the inside of the city with the ballistas facing the wrong direction, so she just destroyed them all.

I see the whole attack as very believable. Way more realistic than three ballistas having perfect shots and killing Danny's other dragon.

The problem is they weren't even consistent in the episode.  The same fire blast that blew apart walls merely scorched human bodies.  It is nonsense.  If the dragonfire had that sort of concussive force, then there wouldn't have been charred bodies at all as there wouldn't have bodies left.  I don't have an issue with things like burning Varys not having the same kind of force as the dragon wasn't moving and presumably Drogon has some level of control over the fire, but you can't do a pass that blows walls apart that leaves bodies in tact but burned.  That is quite frankly nonsense.  Though it looks cool to blow apart the walls so let's just throw out logic.  Typical of the last few seasons of the show.

[nickagneta]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire. There are many types of dragons in the world of D&D with lots of different types of fire. Heck some dragons shoot ice in those games.

Is the shows depiction of dragonfire different than described in the books? Sure. Does that make it wrong? Hell no. Just different. I have no problem with explosive dragon fire. In most of the shots of the dragons in battle, even when much younger and smaller, showed a rolling explosive fire.

The show can make its own rules. They should strive for internal consistency, though. Two dragons were borderline useless in Winterfell; one can now defeat entire cities and fleets by itself.

To be fair, the two dragons at Winterfell were fighting another dragon and ended up seriously wounding it. When they weren't, they wiped out giant amounts of the undead in front of the castle.

And obviously Dany learned her lesson about how to use the dragon. She wiped out the fleet because she emerged into battle using the sunlight to make it difficult to see them in a kamakazi dive. Once she hit the first group, the rest of the fleet was too slow to react.

And the ballistas on the castle didn't seem to have very good ability to move in a circle so once Dany got past the first volley, she was over the inside of the city with the ballistas facing the wrong direction, so she just destroyed them all.

I see the whole attack as very believable. Way more realistic than three ballistas having perfect shots and killing Danny's other dragon.

The problem is they weren't even consistent in the episode.  The same fire blast that blew apart walls merely scorched human bodies.  It is nonsense.  If the dragonfire had that sort of concussive force, then there wouldn't have been charred bodies at all as there wouldn't have bodies left.  I don't have an issue with things like burning Varys not having the same kind of force as the dragon wasn't moving and presumably Drogon has some level of control over the fire, but you can't do a pass that blows walls apart that leaves bodies in tact but burned.  That is quite frankly nonsense.  Though it looks cool to blow apart the walls so let's just throw out logic.  Typical of the last few seasons of the show.

You have no idea how close some of those burn victims were to the fire. Proximity matters. And just about every shot of the dragon fire during the battle showed explosive tendencies even in prior dragon battles scenes.

Yeah, and in just about all fantasy lierature on dragons, dragons have control of how intense a projectile they can throw. I say projectile because, as I said earlier, dragons vary and what they spew can differ.

That last episode was the most visually stunning and visually dramatic piece of television in history. Hands down. And you guys are complaining about the physics of an imaginary creatures ability to create fire out of their mouths and having the after effects be 100% spot on to our world's physics.

Clearly, in this imaginary world, things work differently. Seasons are years or even decades long. People come back from the dead. People can see the future in flames. A certain type of steel has alloy superpowers. You can take over the abilities of animals through warning. You can see the entire history of the world by connecting to special trees. And there are different types of sentient beings.

But yeah, let's complain about imaginary dragonfire not being realistic or confirming to real life physics.

[Moranis]

You know, there is no real rules for dragonfire. There are many types of dragons in the world of D&D with lots of different types of fire. Heck some dragons shoot ice in those games.

Is the shows depiction of dragonfire different than described in the books? Sure. Does that make it wrong? Hell no. Just different. I have no problem with explosive dragon fire. In most of the shots of the dragons in battle, even when much younger and smaller, showed a rolling explosive fire.

The show can make its own rules. They should strive for internal consistency, though. Two dragons were borderline useless in Winterfell; one can now defeat entire cities and fleets by itself.

To be fair, the two dragons at Winterfell were fighting another dragon and ended up seriously wounding it. When they weren't, they wiped out giant amounts of the undead in front of the castle.

And obviously Dany learned her lesson about how to use the dragon. She wiped out the fleet because she emerged into battle using the sunlight to make it difficult to see them in a kamakazi dive. Once she hit the first group, the rest of the fleet was too slow to react.

And the ballistas on the castle didn't seem to have very good ability to move in a circle so once Dany got past the first volley, she was over the inside of the city with the ballistas facing the wrong direction, so she just destroyed them all.

I see the whole attack as very believable. Way more realistic than three ballistas having perfect shots and killing Danny's other dragon.

The problem is they weren't even consistent in the episode.  The same fire blast that blew apart walls merely scorched human bodies.  It is nonsense.  If the dragonfire had that sort of concussive force, then there wouldn't have been charred bodies at all as there wouldn't have bodies left.  I don't have an issue with things like burning Varys not having the same kind of force as the dragon wasn't moving and presumably Drogon has some level of control over the fire, but you can't do a pass that blows walls apart that leaves bodies in tact but burned.  That is quite frankly nonsense.  Though it looks cool to blow apart the walls so let's just throw out logic.  Typical of the last few seasons of the show.

You have no idea how close some of those burn victims were to the fire. Proximity matters. And just about every shot of the dragon fire during the battle showed explosive tendencies even in prior dragon battles scenes.

Yeah, and in just about all fantasy lierature on dragons, dragons have control of how intense a projectile they can throw. I say projectile because, as I said earlier, dragons vary and what they spew can differ.

That last episode was the most visually stunning and visually dramatic piece of television in history. Hands down. And you guys are complaining about the physics of an imaginary creatures ability to create fire out of their mouths and having the after effects be 100% spot on to our world's physics.

Clearly, in this imaginary world, things work differently. Seasons are years or even decades long. People come back from the dead. People can see the future in flames. A certain type of steel has alloy superpowers. You can take over the abilities of animals through warning. You can see the entire history of the world by connecting to special trees. And there are different types of sentient beings.

But yeah, let's complain about imaginary dragonfire not being realistic or confirming to real life physics.

If you think that is the argument being made by me then there is no point discussing this further, because it most certainly was not.  It is a fantasy show, sure, but there are still rules and the show has changed the rules on a whim because it looks cooler or because they need something to happen.  Heck even last season, Drogon didn't have concussive dragonfire as he was taking out the Tarley's forces.  It was cooler to have explosions even if those explosions have never existed before, so let's just make it cooler and ignore what we've previously established on the show.   

Of course that is what I've grown to expect from the show.  I mean why would I think they would follow the history of the show at all.  I mean in the last episode they had 3 of the shows main characters all completely change who they were over the entire series for no real apparent reason i.e. Dany, Arya, and Jamie all did things vastly out of character.  There was no pay off for the character arcs they went on over the course of the show.  And I've been saying on here all season that Dany was going to turn into a villain, but they didn't do it realistically at all (and I mean realistically for the world from which the show is not our world).  Dany, for all her flaws, would never just go ahead and target innocents especially when the war was won.  It is 100% not who she is.  Targeting the Red Keep to go after Cersei and have innocents die, absolutely believable.  Targeting the Lannister army and having innocents die, 100% believable.  And it still sets up her up as a mad queen, but to just kill innocents like that, nonsense.  Everything Dany has done has been to get on the Iron Throne, and she had the Iron Throne in her grasp, so she just decided to kill thousands of innocent people.  I mean come on. 

Arya has been trained to be a killing machine for like 5 seasons and all of a sudden she is going to give up on her mission to kill the #1 person on her list when she was in striking distance of doing just that.  There is nothing that has been on the show at all, that would have led her to that conclusion, especially after rejecting Gendry to do just that thing.  Nonsense. (and don't even get me started on her and the Hound arriving at the same time as the army, despite leaving earlier, being on horseback, and being 2 people as opposed to a massive army mostly on foot).   

Jamie was set up for a redemption arc, and yet they just have him go die with his sister.  Why would he bed Brienne only to go die with Cersei?  It makes no sense at all.  Then you have Euron fighting him, again for no real reason as they were on the same side of the war.  And that says nothing for what they've done to Tyrion and his incessant whining about how his sister could change (never going to happen and he should have known it) and how his brilliant strategies now all fail and are pointless.  I mean seriously, he sends Jamie into the keep, but didn't think hey why don't we send a few killers in there to take out Cersei and the war ends.  They've made him a bumbling idiot for no reason at all other than to just set up some drama.

Which brings me back to the dragonfire.  I guess I shouldn't expect the writing to remain consistent for something like dragonfire, when they can't even correctly finish a multiple season story arc.