Most talented teams to greatly underachieve

[perks-a-beast]

A lot is going to depend on how the Celtics do in the playoffs, but are the Celtics destined to be one of those teams who have a great collection of players who can never break through?

Other examples: mid to late 00's Wizards: Arenas, Butler, Jamison all playing at all star levels, yet I don't think they ever made it out of the 1st round. Good role players, too - Haywood, Daniels, Songaila.

mid to late 00's Nuggets: Iverson, Billups, Anthony, KMart, Nene, Smith, Birdman. An excellent combo of defense and offense (on paper). Sort of amazing they never made a finals.

Early 90's Sonics. Had Kemp and Payton, had a 63 win season where they lost to the Nuggets in the 1st round.

There are teams like the 01-02 Kings, who got cheated by the refs and the 04-05 pacers, who had a good chance to win it if it wasn't for suspensions, that I won't count.

[Androslav]

What about Heat in 2010/11?
They had more talent than any of the teams you mentioned. 3 top 20 players in the league.

I guess it is cause it was their 1st year together.
Oh! So are we with Kyrie and GH.

[Roy H.]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

[GC003332]

The 2 that come to mind are the 98-99 Rockets with Olajuwon, Barkley & Pippen and the 2012-13 LA Lakers with Kobe, Nash, Gasol and Howard. Both those teams got a tonne of Preseason hype and both failed to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

[Who]

The Bucks of the 80s and the early 00s.
The Rockets with Yao and T-Mac.
The Blazers of the late 90s early 00s.
The Spurs of the early to mid 90s (pre-Duncan).
The Heat teams of the 90s (Alonzo, Tim Hardaway, Mashburn).

[Androslav]

The 2 that come to mind are the 98-99 Rockets with Olajuwon, Barkley & Pippen and the 2012-13 LA Lakers with Kobe, Nash, Gasol and Howard. Both those teams got a tonne of Preseason hype and both failed to get out of the first round first round of the playoffs.

Those were kind of washed up, old teams.
I don't think they underachieved.
Sport is for young men.

[Androslav]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

You are right, we are deep, but not much top-shelf talent. Yet.

[adam8]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

this is a good point and clearly Hayward is not currently a top 15-20 "talent" like we had hoped. I think you could still argue we are a talented team that is underachieving, Tatum and Brown are clearly talented and are underachieving, Rozier while slightly less talented is vastly underachieving. Vegas still has us as the favorites to win the Eastern conference clearly we are talented.

If all the players were playing up to expectations it is hard to imagine the team would be under achieving, basically the team is under achieving because the players are under achieving but just because the players are under achieving doesn't mean they don't have talent.

Just a quick example KAT didn't get more talented after they traded Butler he just isn't under achieving anymore.

[IDreamCeltics]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

I agree with Roy, the team lacks talent and that's management's fault any way you look at it.

After drafting 6th overall (2014), 3rd overall (2017) and 3rd overall (2017), signing two max free agents, and completing a blockbuster trade for a starting point guard, The team is regressing and on pace to be broken up via trades and free-agency without ever challenging for a championship. 

[Androslav]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

I agree with Roy, the team lacks talent and that's management's fault any way you look at it.

After drafting 6th overall (2014), 3rd overall (2017) and 3rd overall (2017), signing two max free agents, and completing a blockbuster trade for a starting point guard, The team is regressing and on pace to be broken up via trades and free-agency without ever challenging for a championship.

That could be true if you are giving a lot of importance to teams position in January.
I value the April-June situation much more. The ratio is about 10:1
If performance stays the same by then, then I would define them as underachieving.
Right now, I say "don't disturb the cook".

[gouki88]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

I agree with Roy, the team lacks talent and that's management's fault any way you look at it.

After drafting 6th overall (2014), 3rd overall (2017) and 3rd overall (2017), signing two max free agents, and completing a blockbuster trade for a starting point guard, The team is regressing and on pace to be broken up via trades and free-agency without ever challenging for a championship.

That could be true if you are giving a lot of importance to teams position in January.
I value the April-June situation much more. The ratio is about 10:1
If performance stays the same by then, then I would define them as underachieving.
Right now, I say "don't disturb the cook".

Exactly. It's only halfway through the season and people are already writing this team off as if they've been bounced from the Playoffs

[perks-a-beast]

To challenge your assumption, are we really that talented right now?

We have one guy playing at an all-star level. Nobody else is playing as well as, say, Kris Middleton.

The projection that we’d win the Conference was based on the hope that Hayward would return at his prior level, that Horford would play like last year, that Tatum and Brown would take a leap. None of that happened.

At our current level, we’ve got a top-15 player and a bunch of top-50 to top-100 players.

I think we’re talented in the sense that most of our players are going to go on to have great careers. And I think in 10 years people will look back and think, “oh man, how could that team not get it together with all that talent?” Historically, people are going to remember this team as one who was a quarter of basketball away from making the finals, then adding two all stars, and somehow regressing. Obviously, GH hasn’t looked anything resembling his UTAH self, but even if he didn’t come back this season and the team had the same record they do now they’d still be considered an epic disappointment.

[perks-a-beast]

Also, I can’t believe I forgot to mention the 12-13 Lakers. It was so satisfying watching them fail. Also, the 2010-11 Lakers who got pulverized by Dirk and JTerry.

[petbrick]

Also, I can’t believe I forgot to mention the 12-13 Lakers. It was so satisfying watching them fail. Also, the 2010-11 Lakers who got pulverized by Dirk and JTerry.

Most satisfying Lakers failure has to be 2003-04, surely?

[Who]

Remember that Dallas team with Dirk, Finley and Nash.

They also had two other All-Star caliber forwards in Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison.

A rookie Josh Howard. Marquis Daniels, didn't he have some big streak that year? I looked it up. Marquis went for 17.9ppg, 5.6rpg, 4.5apg in the 15 games he started that year. Looked a budding star. I think it was while Nash was out and Marquis got to be the primary ball-handler.

They had some good depth beyond those guys as well. Travis Best. Tony Delk (I love Tony Delk). Shawn Bradley (good for a 10th man). A young Najera. Danny Fortson.

Great collection of individual talent. Like many of these teams, lots of offense but lacking some balance (interior defense).