Author Topic: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green  (Read 7420 times)

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Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2011, 01:38:09 PM »

Offline Cinzilla

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Perk's contributions will never be totally seen in the box score.  He boxes out so teammates get rebounds.  The OKC announcers see that because the night Perk got 13 rebounds they were talking about if they counted box outs or tips of rebounds he would have had 20.  He clears out the area and that allows teammates to come in and get the rebounds.  He also sets screens for his teammates to get open for shots.  Their announcers were also mentioning how if you couldn't get a shot off with a Perk screen there was no hope for you. 

Maybe that's why the Celtics' offense has been suffering.  We don't have anyone aggressively setting screens (aside from that big green wall in the Spurs game.  Krstic seems to be a little late on the screens, KG does set screens but doesn't have the bulk to really stop players and Big Baby has been too busy trying to get his shot to set good screens. 

And to answer the original question, I've been visiting the OKC boards and they aren't pining for Green or Krstic back.  They loved Green but realized that both players were soft and see the toughness that Perk brought to the team.   They have been the top defensive team since Perk started playing.  They are allowing over 10 fewer points per game than they were before the trade. 

The OKC fans love Perk and what he brings to the team as well they should. 

Agreed. I think that is a very underrated factor for the Celtics struggles. Their game is heavily reliant on off and on the ball screening. Not really top level clearout or post up player and they're not a transition team.

Another one is that the shot allocation get all messed up. That caused chemistry issues within their offense.

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2011, 01:58:48 PM »

Offline Jon

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Perk's contributions will never be totally seen in the box score.  He boxes out so teammates get rebounds.  The OKC announcers see that because the night Perk got 13 rebounds they were talking about if they counted box outs or tips of rebounds he would have had 20.  He clears out the area and that allows teammates to come in and get the rebounds.  He also sets screens for his teammates to get open for shots.  Their announcers were also mentioning how if you couldn't get a shot off with a Perk screen there was no hope for you.  

Maybe that's why the Celtics' offense has been suffering.  We don't have anyone aggressively setting screens (aside from that big green wall in the Spurs game.  Krstic seems to be a little late on the screens, KG does set screens but doesn't have the bulk to really stop players and Big Baby has been too busy trying to get his shot to set good screens.  

And to answer the original question, I've been visiting the OKC boards and they aren't pining for Green or Krstic back.  They loved Green but realized that both players were soft and see the toughness that Perk brought to the team.   They have been the top defensive team since Perk started playing.  They are allowing over 10 fewer points per game than they were before the trade.  

The OKC fans love Perk and what he brings to the team as well they should.  

Agreed. I think that is a very underrated factor for the Celtics struggles. Their game is heavily reliant on off and on the ball screening. Not really top level clearout or post up player and they're not a transition team.

Another one is that the shot allocation get all messed up. That caused chemistry issues within their offense.

But again, if this was the case, then why were we so dominant without him in the first 1/2+ of the season?  

I'm not saying that we're not ever going to regret trading Perk; we may very well.  However, if this team was incapable of winning without Perk, we wouldn't have had the best record in the East at the All Star break.  

I think the biggest reason of all is the play of our four All Stars.  And I really think a lot of it has to do with fatigue and indifference.  I really think they're waiting to flip the switch.  

Now this is not to say that I don't share some of the Perk mourners' concerns about defense, rebounding, and toughness.  However, I don't think these are skills that only Perk can bring to the table. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 02:13:45 PM by Jon »

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2011, 02:17:06 PM »

Offline greenpride32

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We didn't have Perk for the practically the whole year people.

So his intagibles that don't show up in the box score somehow created an aura that manifested itself into every C's player and made them better?  I don't know how Ray Paul or KG ever made all-star teams before Perk arrived.

You can give him some credit for games we won in years past, but not this year.  Also in another thread someone made a great point; Perk was on the team that played 27-27 ball down the stretch last year.  How could Perk have allowed us to be that bad last year if he was so "special"?

Also OK has been a top 3-4 team in the West all year; pre and post Perk.  It's not like he transformed them into top half playoff team; they were already there.

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2011, 02:22:26 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Has a contending team ever went on to win a championship with one of their starters shipped just a months or so before the playoffs? I'm guessing no


Only once that I've been able to find.  The defending champion 1995 Houston Rockets moved Otis Thorpe for Clyde Drexler.  Post trade, that team went 17-18 down the stretch, before pulling it together for their Finals run.

It's interesting, looking at that trade.  You took a veteran, established roster, and clearly injected more talent into the team, while modifying its identity somewhat.  Yet, they struggled for 35 games and into the beginning of the playoffs.  If a team struggles to assimilate a HOF starter like Clyde Drexler, I think it's no surprise that the Celtics are struggling to incorporate some bench guys

beat you by 7 minutes =)
It's happened but once that we can recall odds definitely aren't on our side  :o
except there is rarely a situation where a contending team makes trades mid-season in which they trade a starter.  I can't actually think of one where the 1 or 2 seed traded a starter mid-season.  Contending teams often add starters by trading bench players (Cavs last year with Jamison, Pistons adding Sheed on their way to a title, etc.), but it almost never happens where a starter is traded.  Thus, there really aren't many examples one way or the other to look at.
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Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2011, 02:23:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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if shaq actually plays tonight... we'll finish the day being 1-0 in the post-Perk era.  Meanwhile the THunder are on a 2 game skid in Perk era. 

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2011, 02:24:13 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Has a contending team ever went on to win a championship with one of their starters shipped just a months or so before the playoffs? I'm guessing no


Only once that I've been able to find.  The defending champion 1995 Houston Rockets moved Otis Thorpe for Clyde Drexler.  Post trade, that team went 17-18 down the stretch, before pulling it together for their Finals run.

It's interesting, looking at that trade.  You took a veteran, established roster, and clearly injected more talent into the team, while modifying its identity somewhat.  Yet, they struggled for 35 games and into the beginning of the playoffs.  If a team struggles to assimilate a HOF starter like Clyde Drexler, I think it's no surprise that the Celtics are struggling to incorporate some bench guys

beat you by 7 minutes =)
It's happened but once that we can recall odds definitely aren't on our side  :o
except there is rarely a situation where a contending team makes trades mid-season in which they trade a starter.  I can't actually think of one where the 1 or 2 seed traded a starter mid-season.  Contending teams often add starters by trading bench players (Cavs last year with Jamison, Pistons adding Sheed on their way to a title, etc.), but it almost never happens where a starter is traded.  Thus, there really aren't many examples one way or the other to look at.

  When people looked for examples of teams traded away starters what criteria did they use? Was starting 7 games out of 50 or so considered a starter?

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2011, 02:27:45 PM »

Offline zimbo

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Well Jeff Green did help out a lot last time the Thunder and the Clippers met up. Plus, they lost to the Clippers earlier this season. The Clippers may have their number.

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2011, 02:50:15 PM »

Offline Cinzilla

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Perk's contributions will never be totally seen in the box score.  He boxes out so teammates get rebounds.  The OKC announcers see that because the night Perk got 13 rebounds they were talking about if they counted box outs or tips of rebounds he would have had 20.  He clears out the area and that allows teammates to come in and get the rebounds.  He also sets screens for his teammates to get open for shots.  Their announcers were also mentioning how if you couldn't get a shot off with a Perk screen there was no hope for you.  

Maybe that's why the Celtics' offense has been suffering.  We don't have anyone aggressively setting screens (aside from that big green wall in the Spurs game.  Krstic seems to be a little late on the screens, KG does set screens but doesn't have the bulk to really stop players and Big Baby has been too busy trying to get his shot to set good screens.  

And to answer the original question, I've been visiting the OKC boards and they aren't pining for Green or Krstic back.  They loved Green but realized that both players were soft and see the toughness that Perk brought to the team.   They have been the top defensive team since Perk started playing.  They are allowing over 10 fewer points per game than they were before the trade.  

The OKC fans love Perk and what he brings to the team as well they should.  

Agreed. I think that is a very underrated factor for the Celtics struggles. Their game is heavily reliant on off and on the ball screening. Not really top level clearout or post up player and they're not a transition team.

Another one is that the shot allocation get all messed up. That caused chemistry issues within their offense.

But again, if this was the case, then why were we so dominant without him in the first 1/2+ of the season?

Different team. They had Shaq and low usage players like Daniels and Erden in the rotation. Guys who are actually better doing the little things than Green/Krstic and that kept the shot allocation in place. There's a reason why most elite role-players are low usage, defensive minded, guys. Because there are always a limit on the amount of shots to be taken by the team but the opportunities to contribute outside of scoring are virtually limitless. I think this factor is generally underrated. People get blinded by scoring numbers.


Plus, they were able to go 4 deep with their big men consistently allowing everybody to play with more energy.

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2011, 04:22:31 PM »

Offline Jon

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Perk's contributions will never be totally seen in the box score.  He boxes out so teammates get rebounds.  The OKC announcers see that because the night Perk got 13 rebounds they were talking about if they counted box outs or tips of rebounds he would have had 20.  He clears out the area and that allows teammates to come in and get the rebounds.  He also sets screens for his teammates to get open for shots.  Their announcers were also mentioning how if you couldn't get a shot off with a Perk screen there was no hope for you.  

Maybe that's why the Celtics' offense has been suffering.  We don't have anyone aggressively setting screens (aside from that big green wall in the Spurs game.  Krstic seems to be a little late on the screens, KG does set screens but doesn't have the bulk to really stop players and Big Baby has been too busy trying to get his shot to set good screens.  

And to answer the original question, I've been visiting the OKC boards and they aren't pining for Green or Krstic back.  They loved Green but realized that both players were soft and see the toughness that Perk brought to the team.   They have been the top defensive team since Perk started playing.  They are allowing over 10 fewer points per game than they were before the trade.  

The OKC fans love Perk and what he brings to the team as well they should.  

Agreed. I think that is a very underrated factor for the Celtics struggles. Their game is heavily reliant on off and on the ball screening. Not really top level clearout or post up player and they're not a transition team.

Another one is that the shot allocation get all messed up. That caused chemistry issues within their offense.

But again, if this was the case, then why were we so dominant without him in the first 1/2+ of the season?

Different team. They had Shaq and low usage players like Daniels and Erden in the rotation. Guys who are actually better doing the little things than Green/Krstic and that kept the shot allocation in place. There's a reason why most elite role-players are low usage, defensive minded, guys. Because there are always a limit on the amount of shots to be taken by the team but the opportunities to contribute outside of scoring are virtually limitless. I think this factor is generally underrated. People get blinded by scoring numbers.


Plus, they were able to go 4 deep with their big men consistently allowing everybody to play with more energy.

While I can appreciate that you miss Perk, can we keep this within the realm of reason here?  Are you really going to argue that we miss Semih Erden's defensive presence?  He can't even find time on the Cavs.

 Minus the Shaq loss, it really isn't that much of a "different" team.  Ray, Paul, and Rondo are still playing 36+ mpg, KG is still doing 32+, and Baby is still the sixth man.  Jeff Green is an upgrade over Marquis and Delonte West is certainly an upgrade over Nate Robinson. 

And let's not also forget that Rondo and KG also missed time while Perk was out and we still found ways to win. 

Overall, I think our biggest problems are twofold:

1) First and foremost, our 4 All Stars aren't playing as well as they did in the first half.  Attributing that to Perk doesn't make sense.  He wasn't around in the first half when they played out of their minds and he was around last year when a skid worse than this occurred.  And I think it has little to do with the surrounding players like Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic.  Our four All Stars carried this team with Semih Erden starting at center and no backup big men. 

2) I do think they miss legit big men in the middle.  However, as you already have noted, Shaq can fix that problem, as can Jermaine O'Neal. 

Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2011, 02:20:46 AM »

Offline jdz101

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just checked out the highlights Perk and Ibaka....are really going to be a solid front line.....they blocked blake griffin and Jordan a couple of times...but Perk can't run with this thunder team.

Perk cant run. Full stop.

People will go crazy on the thunder messageboards when the dude tears his acl again in 6 months.


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Re: Thunder lose to Clippers; if only they had Jeff Green
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2011, 04:03:06 AM »

Offline LilRip

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hmm, i may be doing a little revisionist history, but weren't Pierce-Allen-KG just scrubs and role players before they all came together and met Perk?  ;D
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