2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread : VOTING ENDS 8:00PM EST TONIGHT

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Who is your starting center, or starting power forward? Are they better than Tiago Splitter?

Andrew Bogut (C) and Greg Monroe (PF). And as Daniel Bryan would say, YES!

Ask any basketball analyst in the world, based on skill and talent, if they are going to chose Tiago over Bogut and Monroe, most of the time they'll say no (unless they're Brazilian or Spurs fans).

Also, Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. Tiago has skill, but you can't deny that system and the leadership it has on that team helped him develop better. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, with their talent and skill level. And at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team with John Keuster as his coach.

[indeedproceed]

Who is your starting center, or starting power forward? Are they better than Tiago Splitter?

Andrew Bogut (C) and Greg Monroe (PF)

Ask any basketball analyst in the world, based on skill and talent, if they are going to chose Tiago over Bogut and Monroe, most of the time they'll say no (unless they're Brazilian or Spurs fans).

Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team.

Yeah. You've got two good post players. Im not really sold that they fit together, and Bogut's got a problematic injury history, but they've got undeniable talent.

[indeedproceed]

Also, Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. Tiago has skill, but you can't deny that system and the leadership it has on that team helped him develop better. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, with their talent and skill level. And at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team with John Keuster as his coach.

Also, is this a knock at Splitter? Cuz Id think that growing up under Pop and Duncan's tutelage is about the best pedigree you can get as a NBA post player. Learn what it means to be on a team that gets things done, how to be a professional, what's wrong with that?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Who is your starting center, or starting power forward? Are they better than Tiago Splitter?

Andrew Bogut (C) and Greg Monroe (PF)

Ask any basketball analyst in the world, based on skill and talent, if they are going to chose Tiago over Bogut and Monroe, most of the time they'll say no (unless they're Brazilian or Spurs fans).

Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team.

Yeah. You've got two good post players. Im not really sold that they fit together, and Bogut's got a problematic injury history, but they've got undeniable talent.

Is it weird that I have to keep on saying that Drummond and Monroe worked well and Drummond have NO outside game whatsoever?

Bogut may not have a midrange game, but he's excellent in high pick and roll situations. He's a terrific passer for his position and can find people cutting underneath or having their positions set down low. He sets picks high, gives room for Monroe to operate (not that he needs any, have you seen Greg finish even being surrounded by three defenders?). Monroe also has a decent midrange and passing game so they can play in and out.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Also, Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. Tiago has skill, but you can't deny that system and the leadership it has on that team helped him develop better. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, with their talent and skill level. And at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team with John Keuster as his coach.

Also, is this a knock at Splitter? Cuz Id think that growing up under Pop and Duncan's tutelage is about the best pedigree you can get as a NBA post player. Learn what it means to be on a team that gets things done, how to be a professional, what's wrong with that?

How about Pop and Duncan being leaders on the floor, motivate the players to be play at their best level and be productive.

Let's not forget the impact they had on Danny Green. He was cut, TWICE and he turned out to be one of the best role players in the game. Cleveland had him and didn't see it, otherwise he probably would have helped LeBron win a title with the Cavs. A certain guard as well. With the Spurs system, you learn to play smart, and that seems to be lacking on Detroit and Milwaukee.

It's a knock in a sense that, if on an alternate universe Bogut and his talents ended up with the Spurs and Tiago went to Milwaukee, Bogut could probably be Superstar and Splitter a nice rotation Center. And same goes with Monroe. Instead, Tiago has been a rising star because of the organization he's playing for knows what their doing.  And Bogut and Monroe got by with their talents but could have been better players if only their respective mediocre teams knew how to get things done.

[indeedproceed]

Is it weird that I have to keep on saying that Drummond and Monroe worked well and Drummond have NO outside game whatsoever?

Actually, they didn't.

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213DET2.HTM

In units with both Monroe and Drummond, the few times they shared the floor, they easily average to a well below 50% win%. Detroit knows they've got two very good prospects, so they're willing to play it out to see if they gel, but to this point, they haven't coexisted on the court together well at all.

[indeedproceed]

Also, Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. Tiago has skill, but you can't deny that system and the leadership it has on that team helped him develop better. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, with their talent and skill level. And at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team with John Keuster as his coach.

Also, is this a knock at Splitter? Cuz Id think that growing up under Pop and Duncan's tutelage is about the best pedigree you can get as a NBA post player. Learn what it means to be on a team that gets things done, how to be a professional, what's wrong with that?

How about Pop and Duncan being leaders on the floor, motivate the players to be play at their best level and be productive.

Let's not forget the impact they had on Danny Green. He was cut, TWICE and he turned out to be one of the best role players in the game. Cleveland had him and didn't see it, otherwise he probably would have helped LeBron win a title with the Cavs. Gary Neal as well. With the Spurs system, you learn to play smart, and that seems to be lacking on Detroit and Milwaukee.

It's a knock in a sense that, if on an alternate universe Bogut and his talents ended up with the Spurs and Tiago went to Milwaukee, Bogut could probably be Superstar and Splitter a nice rotation Center. And same goes with Monroe. Instead, Tiago has been a rising star because of the organization he's playing for knows what their doing.  And Bogut and Monroe got by with their talents but could have been better players if only their respective mediocre teams knew how to get things done.

So what you're saying is that Splitter is better for Pop and Duncan's influence, and Bogut and Monroe would've benefitted from that as well, in an alternate and completely fictional timeline? If I've got that right, I agree. But Id also mention that the Spurs are a PRETTY good judge of talent. They acquired Splitter, weathered a few years of middling returns, brought him up, and paid him.

He was a pretty well respected prospect coming into the league in his own right, of he didn't work out , they could've cut bait and traded him, probably for a decent return. They opted to no only keep him, but pay him pretty much market value this offseason. Seems like such a well-run organization should be trusted to know what they're doing, so it follows that Splitter is a bit more than just good teachers and mentors.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Is it weird that I have to keep on saying that Drummond and Monroe worked well and Drummond have NO outside game whatsoever?

Actually, they didn't.

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213DET2.HTM

In units with both Monroe and Drummond, the few times they shared the floor, they easily average to a well below 50% win%. Detroit knows they've got two very good prospects, so they're willing to play it out to see if they gel, but to this point, they haven't coexisted on the court together well at all.

Point taken, you win.

Oh, but wait a second. Since we are using numbers (im trying to learn the numbers game  ), I got a counter argument.

Another guy at PF and Monroe played for 606.1 minutes. According to the numbers, that guy has terrible outside game (attempted 0.9 shots from 3-9 feet, 0.6 from 10-15, and 2.5 from 16-23 feet shooting 32%. Thank you Hoopdata). So it's safe to assume that he doesnt play outside and clogs the lane for Monroe offensively.

That guy is NOT stretching the floor whatsoever. That said PF also has little to no passing game and court vision unlike Bogut (0.8 APG with a 4.7 AST% compare to Bogut's 2.1 with a 12.5 AST%, according to BBall Reference).  He can't put the ball on the floor like Bogut does as well, and yet him and Monroe combined for a +22 when on the floor together and a winning percentage of 50%.

Fit is not a concern with Bogut and Monroe. Bogut can play high PnR's opening up some room for Greg. And Greg also showed, according to the numbers that he can contribute even with a mate who cannot stretch the floor.


(see that, I used numbers compared to just the eye test, thank you IP)

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Also, Bogut and Monroe didn't need the help of one Tim Duncan and a very good Spurs coaching staff and player development to establish themselves as stars. Tiago has skill, but you can't deny that system and the leadership it has on that team helped him develop better. I can only imagine how Andrew or Greg would turn out playing next to Duncan and being coached by Pop, with their talent and skill level. And at the same time, imagine how Splitter would turn out to be if he played for a always NBA purgatory bound Bucks or a mismanaged Pistons team with John Keuster as his coach.

Also, is this a knock at Splitter? Cuz Id think that growing up under Pop and Duncan's tutelage is about the best pedigree you can get as a NBA post player. Learn what it means to be on a team that gets things done, how to be a professional, what's wrong with that?

How about Pop and Duncan being leaders on the floor, motivate the players to be play at their best level and be productive.

Let's not forget the impact they had on Danny Green. He was cut, TWICE and he turned out to be one of the best role players in the game. Cleveland had him and didn't see it, otherwise he probably would have helped LeBron win a title with the Cavs. Gary Neal as well. With the Spurs system, you learn to play smart, and that seems to be lacking on Detroit and Milwaukee.

It's a knock in a sense that, if on an alternate universe Bogut and his talents ended up with the Spurs and Tiago went to Milwaukee, Bogut could probably be Superstar and Splitter a nice rotation Center. And same goes with Monroe. Instead, Tiago has been a rising star because of the organization he's playing for knows what their doing.  And Bogut and Monroe got by with their talents but could have been better players if only their respective mediocre teams knew how to get things done.

So what you're saying is that Splitter is better for Pop and Duncan's influence, and Bogut and Monroe would've benefitted from that as well, in an alternate and completely fictional timeline? If I've got that right, I agree. But Id also mention that the Spurs are a PRETTY good judge of talent. They acquired Splitter, weathered a few years of middling returns, brought him up, and paid him.

He was a pretty well respected prospect coming into the league in his own right, of he didn't work out , they could've cut bait and traded him, probably for a decent return. They opted to no only keep him, but pay him pretty much market value this offseason. Seems like such a well-run organization should be trusted to know what they're doing, so it follows that Splitter is a bit more than just good teachers and mentors.

That's my point, it's a well run organization who probably would choose Monroe or Bogut over Splitter if they came out of the same draft and all are available.

Tiago sure does have the talent, but he would never be $8 million a year if he didn't play for the Spurs. And I hate to repeat this fact again but it's the best, only example I can think off. Danny Green got cut TWICE and is now considered one of the best role players in the game. Heck, he got drafted in the top half of the 4th round in this draft when in his Cleveland days, only guys who watched UNC are the only guys who have heard of him and even they might not draft him at the end rounds.  Another guard is undrafted and could have been out of the league right now if not for the Spurs. There's also a forward who's starting to toil in mediocrity that was acquired by the Spurs and he also became a nice role player.

I'm not denying Tiago's talents, all I'm saying is the team he played for and the leaders in it made developed him like no other team could probably have. Yes the Spurs are a major part of who Tiago as a player is right now. Now switch Bogut or Monroe in that system and personell and you probably get a superstar, because I'm sorry, but they are more talented than Splitter.

[McHales Pits]

Okay - its Monday! Time for this thread to wake up and continue with the team building. Round 6 about to get underway!

[fitzhickey]

Okay - its Monday! Time for this thread to wake up and continue with the team building. Round 6 about to get underway!

I like the enthusiasm after what was a not so exhilarating weekend

[Rondo2287]

Pick 6.2 is on the block, I do have a very intriguing offer but feel free to get more offers in.

[fairweatherfan]

I'm inclined to use the 6.1 but I'll listen to any last minute offers for the next hour or so.

[BleedGreen1989]

I'm inclined to use the 6.1 but I'll listen to any last minute offers for the next hour or so.

I'll give you 15 TP's.

Think about it, the CB Draft will eventually come and go, but TP's are forever.

[McHales Pits]

I'm inclined to use the 6.1 but I'll listen to any last minute offers for the next hour or so.

I'll give you 15 TP's.

Think about it, the CB Draft will eventually come and go, but TP's are forever.

A max of 5 TPs are allowed in a transaction.