Pats-Bills 9/14

[nickagneta]

Hated:

-Mayo getting hurt
-Defensive inefficiency in holding the Bills on third and fourth down during the 2nd and 3rd quarter.
-Running game though I think that has more to do with the next problem and less with the running backs
-The offensive line in either pass protection or opening holes
-Lack of pressure on the QB with a 4 man rush
-Tackling, to much trying to hit up high to make the tackle and not enough good tough wrap ups and immediate stops
-Kevin Faulk on the kickoff returns. he's a half step slower and it showed on his need to have that speed burst on the kickoff return. It didn't exist.

Loved:

-Brady being back
-Getting the big turnover when they had to have it.
-The defensive secondary and the job they did on Terrell Owens
-The defense didn't let a couple of questionable PF calls effect their aggressiveness or the way they played the game.
-Guyton and Thomas stepping into the middle and taking over for the hurting Mayo. They weren't perfect but considering how important Mayo's position and ability is to this defense, I was impressed. Except for 4-6 crucial letdowns on important plays they were solid in the middle.
-The comeback
-The final result

What did you think of merriweather overall tonight nick?

Also, anyone watching the night cap?

I'm no raiders fan, but if that isn't a touchdown, the rule book is wrong. The kid had it, got both feet down, got his HIP down, and then his shoulder slamming into the ground caused the ball to move all of an inch, if anything.

I understand the nose of the ball touched, but his arm was clearly under it, and nothing but the ground rushing up at a high rate of speed made that ball move a millimeter.

I;m with ESPN's announcing crew for once, that's an atrocious call on review. They overruled themselves and got it wrong. Happens, but still sucks for that rookie kid who made an amazing catch.

I think Merriweather, as well as the entire secondary, played great tonight. I do have to say that I am not a fan of his upper body tackling style in the open field. Get your shoulder into the man's gut and wrap him up. This constant thing of hitting the man high and trying to wrestle him down by holding him by the shoulders is going to cost them big time some game.

Maybe he's being taught that to stand the man up, hold him and allow someone else in to help strip the ball, but it is technically unsound tackling and will lead to tons of yards after the initial hit.

[Chris]

Hated:

-Mayo getting hurt
-Defensive inefficiency in holding the Bills on third and fourth down during the 2nd and 3rd quarter.
-Running game though I think that has more to do with the next problem and less with the running backs
-The offensive line in either pass protection or opening holes
-Lack of pressure on the QB with a 4 man rush
-Tackling, to much trying to hit up high to make the tackle and not enough good tough wrap ups and immediate stops
-Kevin Faulk on the kickoff returns. he's a half step slower and it showed on his need to have that speed burst on the kickoff return. It didn't exist.

Loved:

-Brady being back
-Getting the big turnover when they had to have it.
-The defensive secondary and the job they did on Terrell Owens
-The defense didn't let a couple of questionable PF calls effect their aggressiveness or the way they played the game.
-Guyton and Thomas stepping into the middle and taking over for the hurting Mayo. They weren't perfect but considering how important Mayo's position and ability is to this defense, I was impressed. Except for 4-6 crucial letdowns on important plays they were solid in the middle.
-The comeback
-The final result

Looking back at this game I really think it shouldent have been as close as it was.  Aside from the fact that the Pats dominated the Stats sheet, just watching the game nobody would have guessed the pats were losing.  The factors in making the game as close as it was 

Gostkowski- Misses 41 yarder  -3 for pat
Brady- Interception for touchdown  +7 for Bills
Thomas- Penalty for throwing down QB  +4 points for Bills(Assuming they get field goal)

So your looking at a 2 touchdown swing off of pats mistakes alone. 

I think the pats D played very well, especially considering Mayo went out.  Its my understanding that the pats didnt have the signal caller on the field after mayo went out, Thomas said, "We didn’t really know what was going on. Me and Gary went in there and just had to communicate with guys. Guys moving around everywhere. It was definitely an adjustment on the fly."

I was very impressed with the secondary for the most part.  No big plays out of TO and Lee Evans was clearly their game plan which made them suceptable to screens but they kept the play in front of them and you have to figure with Mayo in there the screens are cut down maybe 1-3 yards earlier.  And it was awesome seeing Butler jump in and almost pick that pass in the 4th quarter. 

Story of this game was the Pats inability to finish drives on the offensive end. Whether it be the missed field goal or the first and goal inside the ten they couldnt convert.  I would have loved to see some more Chris Baker on that goal line series, but I am going to put my faith in Brady and Bill that they can get that figured out.  Also I was happy to see some bursts out of Maroney and Taylor when the holes were there, they just need to be opened up more as was already discussed by many on here.

The Pats certainly made some mistakes, but the Bills made even more (and bigger ones).  At least 3-4 times, they were moving the ball, before a dumb penalty killed the drive.  They were really moving the ball at will on the Pats defense for much of the game, but kept killing themselves with dumb penalties (that lineman who had two penalties for not being on the line of scrimage should be immediately cut).  And that is not even mentioning the fumble on the kickoff with 2 minutes to go.  

So while the Pats made a few mistakes, if the Bills had not made so many mistakes, they would have absolutely run away with this game.  The Pats looked out of sync for the majority of the game, and played down to the competition (although the Bills played much better than expected by most).  It was the Bills game to win, but they simply could not do it.  

Did this game remind anyone else of the Ravens game a couple years ago?  Except with both teams being more innept?

[Rondo2287]

Ok, Well I guess we have to agree to disagree Chris, I wouldnt say the penalties by the offensive lineman were as big a deal as an 11 point swing from the patriots offense. 

[Rondo2287]

Also the lack of a third wide out in this game really disturbed me.  Galloway was compeletely a non-factor in this game.  Which makes a little bit of sense due to the Bills playing the cover 2 and trying to take away the deep ball down the side which is what Galloway was doing for most of the night, and I guess you take what you can get which was out patterns and eventually exploiting the soft spot in the middle with Watson.  But they really are going to need a third receiver sooner rather than later.  I missed Jabar Gaffney

[nickagneta]

Ok, Well I guess we have to agree to disagree Chris, I wouldnt say the penalties by the offensive lineman were as big a deal as an 11 point swing from the patriots offense. 

Couple of things about the mistakes you mentioned Rondo:

1.) Go back and watch that Schoebel interception. That was not nearly as much of a mistake as it was Schoebel reading the play properly, staying home in the passing lane and then jumping 28" from a standing position to one hand catch a ball thrown over his head. Phenomenally athletic and intelligent play by Schoebel, A DEFENSIVE LINEMAN, that should be given credit to him to not made into some mistake of Brady's.

2.)Thomas penalty, while a huge mistake, was no guarantee of the Bills not picking up the first down on the very next play or couple of plays. You are assuming that that sack would have been a drive killer but on several occasions not only during that drive but others, the Bills had been picking up big, big first downs on third down. Say what you want but I don't see that play as costing the Pats a TD given the way Buffalo was performing on that drive and considering they still had 2nd and 2rd down to go. They made a 3rd and 15, a 3rd and 3 and a 3rd and 8 on that drive alone.

Also, let's face it, the biggest mistake of the game occurred on the Bills side of the ball not the Pats. McKelvin takes a knee and the Bills can pick up just one first down and the game is over Bills win. The mistake that decided the game was a Bills mistake and the Pats played some uninspired ball. But the Pats did in no way shape or form deserve to win this game big. They didn't play that well.

[Rondo2287]

Ok, ya it was a good play by the Schoebel, I never meant to take anything away from him.  Except I have seen Brady lob screen passes over defenders outstretched arms for the past 5-6 years which is why I consider it a mistake.

And your right Im assuming the Thomas Penalty would have been a drive Killer but even if its not you are still looking at a 10 point swing in the field goal and interception that the patriots gave up.  Listen, I am not disagreeing that the biggest mistake was Leodis taking it out of the endzone, course if I had the leading returner by average in the NFL I may want him to take the ball out too.  But I am saying that if you take away those 10 points, the look of the game is very different especially when you consider that the patriots had allll the Momentum at the point of the Shoebel INT.   

[nickagneta]

Ok, ya it was a good play by the Schoebel, I never meant to take anything away from him.  Except I have seen Brady lob screen passes over defenders outstretched arms for the past 5-6 years which is why I consider it a mistake.

And your right Im assuming the Thomas Penalty would have been a drive Killer but even if its not you are still looking at a 10 point swing in the field goal and interception that the patriots gave up.  Listen, I am not disagreeing that the biggest mistake was Leodis taking it out of the endzone, course if I had the leading returner by average in the NFL I may want him to take the ball out too.  But I am saying that if you take away those 10 points, the look of the game is very different especially when you consider that the patriots had allll the Momentum at the point of the Shoebel INT.   

But you are not being consistent. You are taking Pats mistakes away and assuming the Bills will always make mistakes. Keep all the mistakes in or keep all the mistakes out. If you are going to eliminate all the Pats mistakes and say the deserved to win big at least be consistent and take all the Bills mistakes out too. Judge how the game would have ended in the same context. Either neither team making mistakes or all mistakes included. Doing it that way, the Pats win in a close game either way because taking all the mistakes out, then the Pats don't get that extra 7 points just before the game ended, now do they?

[Rondo2287]

Ok, ya it was a good play by the Schoebel, I never meant to take anything away from him.  Except I have seen Brady lob screen passes over defenders outstretched arms for the past 5-6 years which is why I consider it a mistake.

And your right Im assuming the Thomas Penalty would have been a drive Killer but even if its not you are still looking at a 10 point swing in the field goal and interception that the patriots gave up.  Listen, I am not disagreeing that the biggest mistake was Leodis taking it out of the endzone, course if I had the leading returner by average in the NFL I may want him to take the ball out too.  But I am saying that if you take away those 10 points, the look of the game is very different especially when you consider that the patriots had allll the Momentum at the point of the Shoebel INT.   

But you are not being consistent. You are taking Pats mistakes away and assuming the Bills will always make mistakes. Keep all the mistakes in or keep all the mistakes out. If you are going to eliminate all the Pats mistakes and say the deserved to win big at least be consistent and take all the Bills mistakes out too. Judge how the game would have ended in the same context. Either neither team making mistakes or all mistakes included. Doing it that way, the Pats win in a close game either way because taking all the mistakes out, then the Pats don't get that extra 7 points just before the game ended, now do they?

Exactly but they also dont need the dramatic comeback.  I think we can agree that unless you are the Bills, up by 11 with 5 minutes left you win 99% of the time.  And listen Im not trying to replay this game without mistakes, Im just pointing out mistakes made by the Pats that made it as close as it was in my estimation. 

And personally I thought the D played pretty darn well. Basically the D gave up 17 points.  And was able to completely neutralize the biggest weapons on the Buffalo offense. I think they basically took the approach of, if we take away your big plays with Evans and Owens, and force you to grind the game out we will outscore you approach. 

And if the Pats did a better job finishing drives that certainly would have been the case.  Between the failed 4th down attempts, missed field goal, and settling for a field goal after 1st and goal, I think the pats left alot of points on the board. 

[Jon Niednagel]

Well, what a start to the Pat's season for me.  Had my daughter's high school open house tonight so I DVR'd the game.  Managed to avoid overhearing the score and got home at about 9:15 so I figured I'd wait till the game was over and then watch.  Of course, I messed up the recording and actually recorded nothing at all.  So...missed it. It sure sounded like fun.  

Have a TP to ease your pain. I did that once last year with the Celtics and was never more exasperated in my life… Well, except for the time I was forced to miss that great fourth-quarter comeback against the Nets in the playoffs. No fun at all. It feels worse that finding out **** does not work for you. I mean, I would imagine…

[Brickowski]

Well obviously the Pats were lucky.  Had the Bills' kickoff guy taken a knee (or hung on to the ball), the Bills would have almost certainly won the game.

Does anyone know the extent of Mayo's injury?

Let me add that I said after the exhibition season that the Patriots have no short yardage running game: no ability to play smashmouth football.  It hurt them last night and will continue to hurt them.  They tried to put in two tight ends or an extra offensive lineman to compensate for the lack of a fullback, but it didn't work.

They need a fullback.  Maybe they can use one of their linebackers in that role, as they used to do with Vrabel on occasion.

[Chris]

Ok, Well I guess we have to agree to disagree Chris, I wouldnt say the penalties by the offensive lineman were as big a deal as an 11 point swing from the patriots offense. 

You don't think going from a first down and 10+ yard gain to a 5 yard penalty making it 3rd and long 2-3 times didn't have an affect on the game?  Did you see the way Jackson was absolutely tearing apart the defense?

The Pats played an absolutely terrible game until the last 2 minutes, and did everything they could to lose to an inferior team...but the Bills were up to the challenge, and showed they will always win the game of "which teams wants to lose more".

[JSD]

Did anyone notice Brady chew out Welker after he threw a terrible pass to him? What was up with that? Also, Brady wanted no part of that post-game interview huh? jeez.

[Chris]

Did anyone notice Brady chew out Welker after he threw a terrible pass to him? What was up with that? Also, Brady wanted no part of that post-game interview huh? jeez.

Apparently they were on different pages.  Judging by the pass, Brady read it so that Welker should come inside on the screen, while Welker instead stood his ground...or something like that.

Either way, it was clear from Brady's reaction that the actual pass was not bad, but there was a misread on one of their parts.

[Rondo2287]

Did anyone notice Brady chew out Welker after he threw a terrible pass to him? What was up with that? Also, Brady wanted no part of that post-game interview huh? jeez.

Apparently they were on different pages.  Judging by the pass, Brady read it so that Welker should come inside on the screen, while Welker instead stood his ground...or something like that.

Either way, it was clear from Brady's reaction that the actual pass was not bad, but there was a misread on one of their parts.

ya I saw that and was also like whats going on, that was a bad pass.  But I think the very next pass Brady threw was to Welker which went to the one yard line setting up the Taylor TD. 

[Chris]

Did anyone notice Brady chew out Welker after he threw a terrible pass to him? What was up with that? Also, Brady wanted no part of that post-game interview huh? jeez.

Apparently they were on different pages.  Judging by the pass, Brady read it so that Welker should come inside on the screen, while Welker instead stood his ground...or something like that.

Either way, it was clear from Brady's reaction that the actual pass was not bad, but there was a misread on one of their parts.

ya I saw that and was also like whats going on, that was a bad pass.  But I think the very next pass Brady threw was to Welker which went to the one yard line setting up the Taylor TD. 

OK, I think I mispoke.  I agree that it was a bad pass, but I think the reason Brady was in Welker's face was because of a bad read.  I don't think Brady was just yelling at Welker that he needs to catch the ball thrown at his feet.