How did we with "vet minimums" compared to other teams?

[Roy H.]

We landed:

Oshae Brissett
DeAndre Banton (partial guarantee)
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (partial guarantee)

Several playoff contenders also were largely restricted to the vet minimum.  Some examples:

Warriors:  Signed Corey Joseph, Dario Saric

Lakers:  Signed Jaxson Hayes, Cam Reddish, Christian Wood

Heat:  Signed Josh Richardson, Thomas Bryant

Bucks:  Signed Malik Beasley, Robin Lopez, Jae Crowder

76ers:  Signed Mo Bamba, Kelly Oubre, Pat Beverley, Montrezl Harrell, Danny Green, David Duke

Suns:  Signed Drew Eubanks, Keita Bates-Diop, Eric Gordon, Yuta Watanabe, Bol Bol, Josh Okogie

Nets:  Lonnie Walker, Darius Bazely, Trendon Watford, Dennis Smith, Harry Giles

Others:  Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday, DeAndre Jordan, Alex Len, Derrick Jones, Aaron Holiday, Romeo Langford

The above doesn't count two-way deals, and some of the deals might not be true VMs, but if not they're close.

How'd we do?

[mobilija]

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit....

[Atzar]

We did okay.

Mykhailiuk can play a little, if that 2023 shooting is legit.  Probably competing with Hauser for a spot in the rotation.  Having another good shooter is never a bad thing.  Banton and Brissett, though, are just warm bodies imho.  Some interesting physical traits and still young but I don't think they do much. 

There aren't many impact guys on that list overall.  A lot of warm bodies, just like us.  A few teams beat us in terms of talent, but also brought on some baggage in the process.  Wood, for example, is the most talented player on the list, but also capable of being more trouble than he's worth.  Though I do concede that if anybody can keep him in line for a year, it's Lebron. 

Also, I'm kind of interested in Miami getting JRich for peanuts.  In my head, he's a legit rotation player, even a viable spot starter, who does a lot of useful things.  But advanced stats think he's pretty much replacement level.  I haven't watched him much over the last year and a half, so maybe I'm wrong on him. 

[BitterJim]

We landed:

Oshae Brissett
DeAndre Banton (partial guarantee)
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (partial guarantee)

Several playoff contenders also were largely restricted to the vet minimum.  Some examples:

Warriors:  Signed Corey Joseph, Dario Saric

Lakers:  Signed Jaxson Hayes, Cam Reddish, Christian Wood

Heat:  Signed Josh Richardson, Thomas Bryant

Bucks:  Signed Malik Beasley, Robin Lopez

76ers:  Signed Mo Bamba, Kelly Oubre, Pat Beverley, Montrezl Harrell, Danny Green, David Duke

Suns:  Signed Drew Eubanks, Keita Bates-Diop, Eric Gordon, Yuta Watanabe, Bol Bol

Nets:  Lonnie Walker, Darius Bazely, Trendon Watford, Dennis Smith, Harry Giles

The above doesn't count two-way deals, and some of the deals might not be true VMs, but if not they're close.

How'd we do?

The players from your list that I think will actually play enough of a role to matter:
Wood
Josh Richardson
Thomas Bryant
Kelly Oubre
Patrick Beverly
Eric Gordon

So just going by that metric, the Lakers, Heat, 76ers, and Suns did better than us on vet mins, everybody else is equal with us. None of those teams showing up surprises me given that they have some serious holes in their rotation that these guys will (presumably) fill, but I'm disappointed we didn't get someone to fill our hole at PF (or Center, but I think the bigger issue is PF)

[Vermont Green]

We did okay.

Mykhailiuk can play a little, if that 2023 shooting is legit.  Probably competing with Hauser for a spot in the rotation.  Having another good shooter is never a bad thing.  Banton and Brissett, though, are just warm bodies imho.  Some interesting physical traits and still young but I don't think they do much. 

There aren't many impact guys on that list overall.  A lot of warm bodies, just like us.  A few teams beat us in terms of talent, but also brought on some baggage in the process.  Wood, for example, is the most talented player on the list, but also capable of being more trouble than he's worth.  Though I do concede that if anybody can keep him in line for a year, it's Lebron. 

Also, I'm kind of interested in Miami getting JRich for peanuts.  In my head, he's a legit rotation player, even a viable spot starter, who does a lot of useful things.  But advanced stats think he's pretty much replacement level.  I haven't watched him much over the last year and a half, so maybe I'm wrong on him.

I am in line with this.  It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.  That they didn't even try to sign any of the other players.  I would have liked to sign a PF.  Those that are on the list that may have fit as something more than a 2-way/prospect include:

Saric
Wood
Bryant
Harrell

They all went to higher profile locations where there is more potential for a role.  I am not sure any of them will have much impact in the end, and more impact than Griffin who is who we may end up with.  Bryant for example, didn't last season.  I suspect the Celtics had some level of discussion with all of them.  It is not necessarily a knock on Celtics management that they went somewhere else.  You just don't know.

There are a few interesting guard/wings, Richardson, Gordon, Beasley, even Oubre, who could have added something to the Celtics, but kind of like the bigs, hard to see any of them having a better role on the Celtics than where they ended up.  It is likely that these players will have some impact on their new teams, but that doesn't mean they would have had the same impact on the Celtics.

I give the Celtics a B- or C+ for this aspect of the off season, understanding they may not be done.  They did OK, but nothing terribly impactful.  But I am not sure there will be much impact from anyone on this list.  Probability says there will be surprises in both directions so there will be a couple that end up playing better than expected.  Maybe it will be one of the Celtics.

I don't expect much from Dalano Banton, he is a prospect at best, assuming he even survives and makes the team.  I think Brissett will prove to be a useful, reliable, versatile bench player, nothing special but reliable.  Svi is somewhere in the middle, more of an unknown.  I am probably the most curious about Svi.

[Roy H.]

It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.

Since all of the listed signed for the vet minimum, how are you coming to this conclusion?

If this thread was focused on not using the TPE or MLE, I think that would be a more reasonable interpretation.

[Who]

F

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

F

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[Vermont Green]

It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.

Since all of the listed signed for the vet minimum, how are you coming to this conclusion?

If this thread was focused on not using the TPE or MLE, I think that would be a more reasonable interpretation.

That is fair. 

I guess my main point was that it is tough to grade or be critical of the Celtics on whether or not they signed say Josh Richardson when maybe they did offer him a min contract but MIA had a better role and was a more desirable place to live.  That would be very different from them determining that they simply like Brissett better and never even talked to Richardson (again, just for example).

[Roy H.]

It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.

Since all of the listed signed for the vet minimum, how are you coming to this conclusion?

If this thread was focused on not using the TPE or MLE, I think that would be a more reasonable interpretation.

That is fair. 

I guess my main point was that it is tough to grade or be critical of the Celtics on whether or not they signed say Josh Richardson when maybe they did offer him a min contract but MIA had a better role and was a more desirable place to live.  That would be very different from them determining that they simply like Brissett better and never even talked to Richardson (again, just for example).

Let's say that Brad did make offers to several of the guys listed above.  Are each of them in clearly better situations than they would be here?  If so, I get it.  If not, is there any room for criticism for not being able to "seal the deal"?  For not being able to attract minimum free agents while other contenders can?
 We saw similar caliber players sign with us last year for the vet minimum, and they were discarded. 

I may be misremembering, but it seems like in general Danny was able to get better guys here for the vet minimum, particularly when we were a contender.  Is Brad specifically avoiding ring chasers, or is his free agency pitch off?

[Celtics4ever]

D grade here

Stevens has always been more worried about culture fits than talent fits for the team.  You can thank Tristan Thompson coming to the team via Danny for that fear.

[mobilija]

It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.

Since all of the listed signed for the vet minimum, how are you coming to this conclusion?

If this thread was focused on not using the TPE or MLE, I think that would be a more reasonable interpretation.

That is fair. 

I guess my main point was that it is tough to grade or be critical of the Celtics on whether or not they signed say Josh Richardson when maybe they did offer him a min contract but MIA had a better role and was a more desirable place to live.  That would be very different from them determining that they simply like Brissett better and never even talked to Richardson (again, just for example).

Let's say that Brad did make offers to several of the guys listed above.  Are each of them in clearly better situations than they would be here?  If so, I get it.  If not, is there any room for criticism for not being able to "seal the deal"?  For not being able to attract minimum free agents while other contenders can?
 We saw similar caliber players sign with us last year for the vet minimum, and they were discarded. 

I may be misremembering, but it seems like in general Danny was able to get better guys here for the vet minimum, particularly when we were a contender.  Is Brad specifically avoiding ring chasers, or is his free agency pitch off?

[bdm860]

It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.

Since all of the listed signed for the vet minimum, how are you coming to this conclusion?

If this thread was focused on not using the TPE or MLE, I think that would be a more reasonable interpretation.

That is fair. 

I guess my main point was that it is tough to grade or be critical of the Celtics on whether or not they signed say Josh Richardson when maybe they did offer him a min contract but MIA had a better role and was a more desirable place to live.  That would be very different from them determining that they simply like Brissett better and never even talked to Richardson (again, just for example).

Let's say that Brad did make offers to several of the guys listed above.  Are each of them in clearly better situations than they would be here?  If so, I get it.  If not, is there any room for criticism for not being able to "seal the deal"?  For not being able to attract minimum free agents while other contenders can?
 We saw similar caliber players sign with us last year for the vet minimum, and they were discarded. 

I may be misremembering, but it seems like in general Danny was able to get better guys here for the vet minimum, particularly when we were a contender.  Is Brad specifically avoiding ring chasers, or is his free agency pitch off?

I think several things go in to signing guys for minimums:

Desirability of city, size of role, player relationships, coach relationships, chance to win.

I think the current C's team isn't going to pass on 4 of those criteria right now, and there's not much the team can do about it (within reason).

City desirability is what it is.

Size of role - with health, come playoffs, I could see a lot of players not seeing a clear path past 3rd string. Brogdon/White, Brown/White/Brogdon, Tatum/Brown, Tatum/PorzingisWilliams, Horford/Williams/Porzingis.  Whose spot am I taking?

Player relationships - I think this is superstar driven (and also gets better by age)  OGs leading a squad have a big edge here.  Right now LeBron, Curry, Durant, George, Kawhi probably have more sway than say Tatum, Brown, Morant, Fox, Murray, Booker, SGA, etc.   

Coach relationships/reputation - this is what comes from having an unknown coach with no experience.  Doesn't have a proven track record, hasn't worked with players before.  All things being equal, if you're a player, you'd choose Spo or Kerr over Joe.  And guys like Ham or Adrian Griffin have 10+ years working around the league as an assistant so lots of players know them and would probably have a higher level of comfort with them over Joe.

Chance to win.  At least C's can offer that, but it's no sure thing.


When Danny was pulling better guys (assuming you were referring to the Big 3 era, and not the IT/Kyrie/Kemba eras), the C's had the player relationships (with Pierce/KG/Ray being OGs), a vet player's coach (Doc), clearer roles to offer (pretty much the entire 2nd string was up for grabs in the Doc era), and a chance to win.  If Danny was the C's GM right now, I don't think he'd be pulling better players.

[Vermont Green]

It seems like people are looking for ways to push the complaint that the Celtics are cheap.

Since all of the listed signed for the vet minimum, how are you coming to this conclusion?

If this thread was focused on not using the TPE or MLE, I think that would be a more reasonable interpretation.

That is fair. 

I guess my main point was that it is tough to grade or be critical of the Celtics on whether or not they signed say Josh Richardson when maybe they did offer him a min contract but MIA had a better role and was a more desirable place to live.  That would be very different from them determining that they simply like Brissett better and never even talked to Richardson (again, just for example).

Let's say that Brad did make offers to several of the guys listed above.  Are each of them in clearly better situations than they would be here?  If so, I get it.  If not, is there any room for criticism for not being able to "seal the deal"?  For not being able to attract minimum free agents while other contenders can?
 We saw similar caliber players sign with us last year for the vet minimum, and they were discarded. 

I may be misremembering, but it seems like in general Danny was able to get better guys here for the vet minimum, particularly when we were a contender.  Is Brad specifically avoiding ring chasers, or is his free agency pitch off?

I guess I was only half right on the agenda behind the original post. Wrong that is was about being cheap but right that there was a critical basis.

I agree that it is the GM’s job to get players. So fair to hold Brad accountable. I don’t think this “class” is going to turn out to be all that much worse than any of the others. We’ll see I guess.

[celticinorlando]

Not good. Not sure what Brad sees in guys like Banton and Brissett.

Not sure Brissett gets any minutes to be honest.