Do the Celtics have the match up C they need?

[droopdog7]

I'm hoping that guy can be Robert Williams.

No doubt RWill can be the starting C for the Celts for many years to come.
But right now he just doesn't have enough experience.
RWill tends to jump every time an opponent pump fakes.
That puts RWill out of position and the opponent scores every time.

Absolutely lacks experience.  But he's physically the most talented and can potentially stand up against the best bigs.  Love the dimension he adds.  Just hope he can continue to grow.

[Fafnir]

It is interesting that Robert Williams is now listed as 6'-8", granted with long arms, and you have a certain perception of him (many think of him as a center).  While Marcus Morris is also currently listed at 6'-8" but all I heard about him is that he is not a power forward.  He is also the same height as Daniel Theis.

The difference is in Williams is 20 pounds heavier, has longer arms, and can jump out of the gym.

I'll also point out that 6' 8" could be 6' 7" and some fraction or 6' 8" and some fraction. While the new measurements are mandated to be without shoes and accurate they aren't displaying 4+ significant figures.

I would love to get a player like Marcus Morris to add to our big rotation.  I consider him a legitimate starting level player capable as playing as a big.  I don't know what the dimensions need to be for a player to be a big these days but I do know the Celtics don't have a lot of talent in the players on the roster that would qualify.  Whether Center, PF, or something in between, we just need some more talent.

I want no part of Marcus Morris type on this team. We don't need another shot hungry offensive wing type. A big part of why the team is working better balance wise is that all three wings are getting the ball and touches to succeed.

[keevsnick]

It is interesting that Robert Williams is now listed as 6'-8", granted with long arms, and you have a certain perception of him (many think of him as a center).  While Marcus Morris is also currently listed at 6'-8" but all I heard about him is that he is not a power forward.  He is also the same height as Daniel Theis.

The difference is in Williams is 20 pounds heavier, has longer arms, and can jump out of the gym.

I'll also point out that 6' 8" could be 6' 7" and some fraction or 6' 8" and some fraction. While the new measurements are mandated to be without shoes and accurate they aren't displaying 4+ significant figures.

I would love to get a player like Marcus Morris to add to our big rotation.  I consider him a legitimate starting level player capable as playing as a big.  I don't know what the dimensions need to be for a player to be a big these days but I do know the Celtics don't have a lot of talent in the players on the roster that would qualify.  Whether Center, PF, or something in between, we just need some more talent.

I want no part of Marcus Morris type on this team. We don't need another shot hungry offensive wing type. A big part of why the team is working better balance wise is that all three wings are getting the ball and touches to succeed.

Exactly. Williams is way longer with a 7'5 wingspan (same as Embiid) as well as far superior athleticism. This allows William to play a much different way than Morris. Morris does not provide much in the way of rim protection. Williams does. Morris doesn't put pressure on the rim in the form of alley oops, pick and roll, ect. Williams does.

[BitterJim]

The game against the Cavs showed us how an opposing Center can hurt the Celts.
Tristan Thompson ended up getting 19 points and 13 rebounds, 8 offensive boards.

Thompson pretty much does this to every team. He's just a great, great offensive rebounder.

Then it would be a good thing if the Celts can get Thompson for Kanter, Poirier, Ojeleye, a draft pick, and maybe Langford or Theis, right?

Not really, no. Giving up Kanter (who is about the same level of rebounder, superior offensively, and worse defensively), the guy we picked #14 before we see what we have with him, PLUS our depth AND a first rounder for an overpaid big man might make sense if he was gonna put us over the hump, but he won't.

This team needs more than a change from Kanter to Tristan Thompson to win a championship this year. Overpaying for a marginal upgrade would just set us back long term

How is it overpaying when Kanter is not a long term solution at Center?

Langford is a gamble.

And the 1st rounder is not the Memphis pick.

Also, why would the Celts lose depth when the Celts will still have RWill and GWill.

Remember, Brad only plays 9 players in the playoffs.

A marginal upgrade is better than no upgrade at all.

If you don't like Tristan Thompson then who do you like?

Whether it's Thompson or not, Ainge can't let the Celts go in the playoffs without making a move to upgrade the frontcourt.

Tristan Thompson isn't the long term solution at center, either. Giving up tons of assets just to make the ECF instead of ECSF this year would be a waste (and that's ignoring that Kanter->someone like TT would not be the difference)

I'd rather wait and see how the team looks after a couple of months (and with everyone healthy), and not worry about making a move unless it looks like it would launch us into contention (or set us up for the next few years)

A marginal upgrade is better than no upgrade, but throwing away no assets is better than throwing away assets. You have to weigh them against each other. Giving up multiple picks/prospects and a similar-level player for a marginal upgrade would not be worth it. The Celtics don't need to sell out their future to not win #18 this year

I'm not saying the Celts will make a move now.
What I'm saying is making a move in December or January.

I also didn't say Tristan Thompson is the long term solution.
If it doesn't work out then the Celts will just let Thompson go at the end of the season.
That means Thompson's 18.5m will be off the books and the Celts will get some cap relief.

Langford doesn't also have to be included.

Theis, Kanter, Poirier, and Ojeleye for Thompson's 18.5m works.

It doesn't have to be Tristan Thompson.
Thompson is the best I can find that the Celts can afford.

A guy like Steven Adams is out of the Celts' price range.

If he's not the long term solution, then why does it matter that Kanter isn't the long term solution? Neither will be here for the long hall, and they're at a similar level for players, so why give up future assets AND depth to swap them?

And there won't be any cap relief. We have $79 million in salary next season from just Jaylen/Jayson/Kemba/Smart (so maybe ~$10 million in total cap space if Hayward/Kanter walk and Theis is waived). If Hayward stays, or opts out and re-signs for more than roughly Smart money, you're talking about less cap space than the MLE (so we would be better off staying above the cap anyway). Cap space isn't gonna be a thing for us again until Kemba and Hayward are gone, possibly longer

There's no one this year that is 1. available, 2. enough of an upgrade to justify giving up assets for, and 3. in our price range. This summer would be the time to try to make a move, especially if we get the Grizzlies pick to use as salary in a deal

[liam]

Portland is now desperate for a center.  That would probably effect the market. I watched WCS and Capela I wasn't terribly impressed by either one. WCS looked slow and out of position a lot  and Capela didn't look like much of an on ball defender. I like the guys we have better.

[Vermont Green]

It is interesting that Robert Williams is now listed as 6'-8", granted with long arms, and you have a certain perception of him (many think of him as a center).  While Marcus Morris is also currently listed at 6'-8" but all I heard about him is that he is not a power forward.  He is also the same height as Daniel Theis.

The difference is in Williams is 20 pounds heavier, has longer arms, and can jump out of the gym.

I'll also point out that 6' 8" could be 6' 7" and some fraction or 6' 8" and some fraction. While the new measurements are mandated to be without shoes and accurate they aren't displaying 4+ significant figures.

I would love to get a player like Marcus Morris to add to our big rotation.  I consider him a legitimate starting level player capable as playing as a big.  I don't know what the dimensions need to be for a player to be a big these days but I do know the Celtics don't have a lot of talent in the players on the roster that would qualify.  Whether Center, PF, or something in between, we just need some more talent.

I want no part of Marcus Morris type on this team. We don't need another shot hungry offensive wing type. A big part of why the team is working better balance wise is that all three wings are getting the ball and touches to succeed.

Morris is not an ideal player or a prototypical big but he would be a tangible upgrade over any of RWilliams, Theis, Ojeleye, GWilliams, Poirier, or anyone else we currently have.  The one exception might be Kanter but that is yet to be seen.  Kanter really replaces Horford though as one big, we are pretty weak after that.

I would have been thrilled if there had been a way to keep Morris.  Now if we find a way to sign or trade for someone even better, great.  But we could use Morris as the roster stands right now

[Green-18]

To answer the OP's question, it depends on how well our core 4 plays together.  I rule out nothing in the Eastern Conference if Kemba, Hayward, Brown, and Tatum are all playing at an All-Star caliber level.  At that point I think you can get by with Center by committee.  Of course I'm assuming that the current group is healthy when the playoffs arrive. 

[Fafnir]

It is interesting that Robert Williams is now listed as 6'-8", granted with long arms, and you have a certain perception of him (many think of him as a center).  While Marcus Morris is also currently listed at 6'-8" but all I heard about him is that he is not a power forward.  He is also the same height as Daniel Theis.

The difference is in Williams is 20 pounds heavier, has longer arms, and can jump out of the gym.

I'll also point out that 6' 8" could be 6' 7" and some fraction or 6' 8" and some fraction. While the new measurements are mandated to be without shoes and accurate they aren't displaying 4+ significant figures.

I would love to get a player like Marcus Morris to add to our big rotation.  I consider him a legitimate starting level player capable as playing as a big.  I don't know what the dimensions need to be for a player to be a big these days but I do know the Celtics don't have a lot of talent in the players on the roster that would qualify.  Whether Center, PF, or something in between, we just need some more talent.

I want no part of Marcus Morris type on this team. We don't need another shot hungry offensive wing type. A big part of why the team is working better balance wise is that all three wings are getting the ball and touches to succeed.

Morris is not an ideal player or a prototypical big but he would be a tangible upgrade over any of RWilliams, Theis, Ojeleye, GWilliams, Poirier, or anyone else we currently have.  The one exception might be Kanter but that is yet to be seen.  Kanter really replaces Horford though as one big, we are pretty weak after that.

Marcus Morris is a chucker/scorer and stretch 4. I'd rather have Tatum/Brown/Hayward get all those minutes and shots and get an actual big man who will rebound his position and can defend bigger players.

Players whom Morris is best defending are the types Jaylen/Jason/Gordon can handle. It is the Kevin Love types that cause us issues.

We don't need another 24% usage guy who's really a wing.

[Sophomore]

It is interesting that Robert Williams is now listed as 6'-8", granted with long arms, and you have a certain perception of him (many think of him as a center).  While Marcus Morris is also currently listed at 6'-8" but all I heard about him is that he is not a power forward.  He is also the same height as Daniel Theis.

The difference is in Williams is 20 pounds heavier, has longer arms, and can jump out of the gym.

I'll also point out that 6' 8" could be 6' 7" and some fraction or 6' 8" and some fraction. While the new measurements are mandated to be without shoes and accurate they aren't displaying 4+ significant figures.

I would love to get a player like Marcus Morris to add to our big rotation.  I consider him a legitimate starting level player capable as playing as a big.  I don't know what the dimensions need to be for a player to be a big these days but I do know the Celtics don't have a lot of talent in the players on the roster that would qualify.  Whether Center, PF, or something in between, we just need some more talent.

I want no part of Marcus Morris type on this team. We don't need another shot hungry offensive wing type. A big part of why the team is working better balance wise is that all three wings are getting the ball and touches to succeed.

Morris is not an ideal player or a prototypical big but he would be a tangible upgrade over any of RWilliams, Theis, Ojeleye, GWilliams, Poirier, or anyone else we currently have.  The one exception might be Kanter but that is yet to be seen.  Kanter really replaces Horford though as one big, we are pretty weak after that.

I would have been thrilled if there had been a way to keep Morris.  Now if we find a way to sign or trade for someone even better, great.  But we could use Morris as the roster stands right now

If you give me a choice of starting Theis or Morris on this team as center, I take Theis every day and twice on Sunday.

I'm not saying Theis is a "better player" for all purposes, but *as a center* he knows his job and does things Morris would never agree to do. His pick and roll defense is very good, he understands verticality and position, he scraps hard for every rebound and loose ball, he doesn't expect to get 15 jump shots/game. His achilles heel are the huge, bruising centers, and I don't see Morris surpassing him there.

[Vermont Green]

Marcus Morris is a chucker/scorer and stretch 4. I'd rather have Tatum/Brown/Hayward get all those minutes and shots and get an actual big man who will rebound his position and can defend bigger players.

Players whom Morris is best defending are the types Jaylen/Jason/Gordon can handle. It is the Kevin Love types that cause us issues.

We don't need another 24% usage guy who's really a wing.

I don't see it that way.  I see Morris (or who ever we can get as an upgrade in the front court) taking minutes from Ojeleye, GWilliams, RWilliams, and so on.  No one is going to take minutes from Tatum, Hayward, and Brown.  There are 96 minutes available at the 2 and the 3 for these guys.  Plus some amount of minutes at the 4.  We still need someone to play all of the 5 minutes and most of the 4 minutes.  That is where we need the upgrade.

Right now, our options are to play someone out of position or to play a front court player who really is not that good.  Isn't Morris a better option than either of those other two?  I know I am in the minority on this and that I am not going to convince you but that is my take.

[mr. dee]

Marcus Morris is a chucker/scorer and stretch 4. I'd rather have Tatum/Brown/Hayward get all those minutes and shots and get an actual big man who will rebound his position and can defend bigger players.

Players whom Morris is best defending are the types Jaylen/Jason/Gordon can handle. It is the Kevin Love types that cause us issues.

We don't need another 24% usage guy who's really a wing.

I don't see it that way.  I see Morris (or who ever we can get as an upgrade in the front court) taking minutes from Ojeleye, GWilliams, RWilliams, and so on.  No one is going to take minutes from Tatum, Hayward, and Brown.  There are 96 minutes available at the 2 and the 3 for these guys.  Plus some amount of minutes at the 4.  We still need someone to play all of the 5 minutes and most of the 4 minutes.  That is where we need the upgrade.

Right now, our options are to play someone out of position or to play a front court player who really is not that good.  Isn't Morris a better option than either of those other two?  I know I am in the minority on this and that I am not going to convince you but that is my take.

He didn't steal their minutes but he took away their shots. Last year, he average more shot attempts than Hayward and Brown.

[wiley]

This seems like the proper bigs thread to bring up one somewhat unmentioned and possibly underrated aspect of the C's bigs situation.  UNPREDICTABILITY

Unpredictabilty doesn't work when if the players in question are not good enough.  But in this case, the C's could do some damage simply by being hard to plan for for opposing teams/coaches.

Kanter:  elite rebounder, excellent inside scorer, toughness.
G Will:   upper body strength, IQ, positioning, passing, toughness.
RWill:    explosiveness, shot blocking, passing
Theis:    defense, IQ, outside shot, all around play

# 1 weakness as a group = size
#2 weakness as a group  =  man to man defense

Not much else for weaknesses in the group, unless you count inexperience when R Will is out there.

So far the individual strengths of the many (verses 1 stud who does everything) is making it hard for the other team to plan on just one approach.  And this is wining out over the collective weaknesses.

[vjcsmoke]

Still don't see the need for Morris.  I wouldn't take him even if he was being given away for free.  I know you're worried where is the scoring going to come from now that Hayward is out, but honestly the Celtics just have to show mental toughness here and a 'next man up' mentality.

They don't need a Marcus Morris to be brought in to 'save' the offense.  They just need to step up and work as a team to make sure that the man with the best shot gets that shot.  More unselfish play and sharing the ball.

This blue collar, unselfish 2019 Celtics team I will take 10/10 times over the more 'talented' team of 2018 that did also have Kyrie/Morris/Horford/Rozier.

Celtics still have shown that they have a big talent differential against most teams.  Look how they grinded down the Bobcats and Spurs.

Hayward will be back in probably about 6 weeks.  In the meantime Langford rejoins the main team, and NEXT MAN UP please!  Let's GO!

Marcus Morris is a chucker/scorer and stretch 4. I'd rather have Tatum/Brown/Hayward get all those minutes and shots and get an actual big man who will rebound his position and can defend bigger players.

Players whom Morris is best defending are the types Jaylen/Jason/Gordon can handle. It is the Kevin Love types that cause us issues.

We don't need another 24% usage guy who's really a wing.

I don't see it that way.  I see Morris (or who ever we can get as an upgrade in the front court) taking minutes from Ojeleye, GWilliams, RWilliams, and so on.  No one is going to take minutes from Tatum, Hayward, and Brown.  There are 96 minutes available at the 2 and the 3 for these guys.  Plus some amount of minutes at the 4.  We still need someone to play all of the 5 minutes and most of the 4 minutes.  That is where we need the upgrade.

Right now, our options are to play someone out of position or to play a front court player who really is not that good.  Isn't Morris a better option than either of those other two?  I know I am in the minority on this and that I am not going to convince you but that is my take.

[moiso]

Marcus Morris is a chucker/scorer and stretch 4. I'd rather have Tatum/Brown/Hayward get all those minutes and shots and get an actual big man who will rebound his position and can defend bigger players.

Players whom Morris is best defending are the types Jaylen/Jason/Gordon can handle. It is the Kevin Love types that cause us issues.

We don't need another 24% usage guy who's really a wing.

I don't see it that way.  I see Morris (or who ever we can get as an upgrade in the front court) taking minutes from Ojeleye, GWilliams, RWilliams, and so on.  No one is going to take minutes from Tatum, Hayward, and Brown.  There are 96 minutes available at the 2 and the 3 for these guys.  Plus some amount of minutes at the 4.  We still need someone to play all of the 5 minutes and most of the 4 minutes.  That is where we need the upgrade.

Right now, our options are to play someone out of position or to play a front court player who really is not that good.  Isn't Morris a better option than either of those other two?  I know I am in the minority on this and that I am not going to convince you but that is my take.

He didn't steal their minutes but he took away their shots. Last year, he average more shot attempts than Hayward and Brown.

And he took away some of their catches in the areas that they like.

[Bobshot]

Williams had a big night last night. He was playing because two other centers were unavailable, Theis and Kanter. The 4th guy is somewhere at the end of the bench.

When Theis and Kanter are available, I suspect Williams will go back to the bench, even though he looks like the best bet for defending the paint. He also seems to be very good on the fast break, with his passing ability.

On the other hand, Stevens may be intrigued by Williams' performance, and could give him 20+ minutes for a few games. We'll see how this pans out. The Celtics are going to have to have a big man to defend against the bigger teams, and Williams looks like the best bet to me right now.