Do the Celtics have the match up C they need?

[wdleehi]

I know the big talk around the Celtics is that they need a big man that can be the clear starter/minute eater.  After watching the first few games, do they really need that one main C?   Or do they have the pieces to match up to most teams.



Theis has been what the Celtics need in terms of a starter the games he has started.  Good defense.  Good picks and taking advantage of his open shots when it works to him in the offense.  Of course his biggest problem have been larger centers with talent.

The one real chance the Celtics had in such a case was against Philly.   Kanter did a good job (for him) against Embid.   One would have to see it again to confirm.


So maybe the Celtics are not desperate to  add a big man.   Maybe they only need to find another limited one that can do the role other struggle with.   

They definitely shouldn't be looking to move Hayward, Tatum, Smart or Kemba to get their hands on one.   (didn't include Brown because they really can't trade him anyways)

[OldSchoolDude]

The Celtics would have traded smart and Tatum for Davis if they really believed he was going to resign. Since that didn’t work out outside of Karl Anthony Towns I don’t see any big man worth trading any of our top five players for. 

Best shots at a dominant big man:
Hope Robert Williams develops into that type of player.
Hope the Memphis pick conveys and we can use it on a big man and that guy develops into a dominant player.

[Th3M2n]

Too early to tell.  But I’m not convinced this team as constructed can’t compete.

[Monkhouse]

I think what we're missing in Horford's innate ability; team defense, we're also making up for it with insane perimeter defense.

While, Theis will certainly not be playing this well cannot be sustainable, (4.6 blocks per 36,) defensively, the lack of a true C doesn't seem to be necessary since we play small ball anyways. Our best 5 is Hayward, Walker, Brown, Tatum, and Smart.

[Fierce1]

Robert Williams can be the Center of the future.

What the Celts need is a Center for the "right now".

I truly believe this Celts team can get to the NBA Finals this season.

If the Celts don't have to face Embiid or Giannis, Celts can beat any team in the east.

It's when the Celts have to face Embiid or Giannis in a 7-game series that will be the problem.
No doubt Celts can win 1 or 2 games against Philly and Milwaukee using only Theis and the other Celtic big men right now.
But 4 wins is hard to get if the Celts don't have a Center to defend Embiid or Giannis.

Also, there's no way the Celts should trade Kemba, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, and Smart.
That's a Fantastic 4 or Fab Five if you include Smart.

The game against the Cavs showed us how an opposing Center can hurt the Celts.
Tristan Thompson ended up getting 19 points and 13 rebounds, 8 offensive boards.

So yes, the Celts need a quality big man.

There's some truth to the belief that the Celts can do well with the bigs they have right now.
In the regular season, the Celts can get away with it because most teams don't have an Embiid or Giannis.
My prediction is the Celts winning 56 games this season.

It's the playoffs where the Celts need an upgrade.

[Fierce1]

I think what we're missing in Horford's innate ability; team defense, we're also making up for it with insane perimeter defense.

While, Theis will certainly not be playing this well cannot be sustainable, (4.6 blocks per 36,) defensively, the lack of a true C doesn't seem to be necessary since we play small ball anyways. Our best 5 is Hayward, Walker, Brown, Tatum, and Smart.

Celts tried that approach against the Sixers in the first game of the season.

The Celts ended up getting outrebounded by Philly 62-41.

Philly didn't even shoot well in that game.

[wiley]

IMO the C's only shot at upgrading the defense/post presence for the post season run is
the buyout market.

If Toronto fades due to youth or injury....would they let Gasol go?  If the suns are a fluke, or Ayton comes back very strong, would they trade Baynes to another team...who would free him (with enticements) to come back to Boston?  (btw, if Baynes continues as is the Celts won't be able to resign him in the offseason).

Those are the two guys I'd want for this post season-Baynes or Gasol. 

as the OP suggested, I would be shocked if a wing like JB was dealt for a Steve Adams level center...(edit...JB not tradeable as OP states....so emphasis on "...wing like JB".)
I think the team is learning how to play with center by committee....and then, if Robert Williams turns into a productive center who makes it hard to play the Adams level guy, such a trade would look really dumb.  I mean, this year Adams greater than Williams, but giving up Brown for a slight increase in title hopes...I don't think it's wise...especially with the decent Theis and Steven's coaching smarts as far as when and how to use each center on the roster. 


What other bigs might be bought out at later in the season?  the C's need an intimidator or skilled defender with size...for 15 minutes even to add to the center stew...and give Williams more time in case he needs it (love Williams but he's still young and high level post season play may be a lot to ask right now).

Will Dedmon stick in Sacramento all year long? 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Wins against the Bucks and Raptors are both high level wins that exemplify the Cs ability to play a small-ball style that can win games. Small sample size so far though.

I think I see a couple plays each game from Robert Williams that make me think, "We might already have that guy on our roster."

I've seen solid play too by Grant Williams in stints. I think he might be able to defend bigs that are more skilled and strong and less vertical (Lopez, Gasol, Sabonis, Turner, Vucevic, Jokic, Nurkic, etc.). I don't know if he can play center in the pick-and-roll against vertical threats (Allen, Capella, Davis, Bam, Drummond, Thompson, Gobert, Whiteside) UNLESS our guards do a better job recovering after they've been screened. Still, I think Williams could be effective at center against half the teams in the league.

Theis is proving he's a solid player. He doesn't roll over, even against top level competition. He competes and he is intelligent. He is just overmatched sometimes. Still, he's a good player to have.

We've hardly seen Kanter in our defensive system with our guards. I think there's a lot of potential he could be solid for us if our guards compete on ball-handlers at a high level.

[Fierce1]

IMO the C's only shot at upgrading the defense/post presence for the post season run is
the buyout market.

If Toronto fades due to youth or injury....would they let Gasol go?  If the suns are a fluke, or Ayton comes back very strong, would they trade Baynes to another team...who would free him (with enticements) to come back to Boston?  (btw, if Baynes continues as is the Celts won't be able to resign him in the offseason).

Those are the two guys I'd want for this post season-Baynes or Gasol. 

as the OP suggested, I would be shocked if a wing like JB was death for a Steve Adams level center...
I think the team is learning how to play with center by committee....and then, if Robert Williams turns into a productive center who makes it hard to play the Adams level guy, such a trade would look really dumb.  I mean, this year Adams greater than Williams, but giving up Brown for a slight increase in title hopes...I don't think it's wise...especially with the decent Theis and Steven's coaching smarts as far as when and how to use each center on the roster. 


What other bigs might be bought out at later in the season?  the C's need an intimidator or skilled defender with size...for 15 minutes even to add to the center stew...and give Williams more time in case he needs it (love Williams but he's still young and high level post season play may be a lot to ask right now).

Will Dedmon stick in Sacramento all year long?

Celts tried that approach a couple of years ago when they got Greg Monroe for the playoffs.
Didn't work out too well for the Cs.

If the Celts will try to solve the problem by going with a cheap solution, buyout market, the Celts will just end up getting a cheap product.

Dedmon is not a defensive Center.

[wiley]

IMO the C's only shot at upgrading the defense/post presence for the post season run is
the buyout market.

If Toronto fades due to youth or injury....would they let Gasol go?  If the suns are a fluke, or Ayton comes back very strong, would they trade Baynes to another team...who would free him (with enticements) to come back to Boston?  (btw, if Baynes continues as is the Celts won't be able to resign him in the offseason).

Those are the two guys I'd want for this post season-Baynes or Gasol. 

as the OP suggested, I would be shocked if a wing like JB was death for a Steve Adams level center...
I think the team is learning how to play with center by committee....and then, if Robert Williams turns into a productive center who makes it hard to play the Adams level guy, such a trade would look really dumb.  I mean, this year Adams greater than Williams, but giving up Brown for a slight increase in title hopes...I don't think it's wise...especially with the decent Theis and Steven's coaching smarts as far as when and how to use each center on the roster. 


What other bigs might be bought out at later in the season?  the C's need an intimidator or skilled defender with size...for 15 minutes even to add to the center stew...and give Williams more time in case he needs it (love Williams but he's still young and high level post season play may be a lot to ask right now).

Will Dedmon stick in Sacramento all year long?

Celts tried that approach a couple of years ago when they got Greg Monroe for the playoffs.
Didn't work out too well for the Cs.

If the Celts will try to solve the problem by going with a cheap solution, buyout market, the Celts will just end up getting a cheap product.

Dedmon is not a defensive Center.

was remembering PJ Brown.  Where is he? 

obviously they don't need and wouldn't add a guy like Monroe this year.  I said defense/intimitation....did not realize Dedmon was poor on D...thought he was talked up in that regard.

[Fierce1]

Wins against the Bucks and Raptors are both high level wins that exemplify the Cs ability to play a small-ball style that can win games. Small sample size so far though.

I think I see a couple plays each game from Robert Williams that make me think, "We might already have that guy on our roster."

I've seen solid play too by Grant Williams in stints. I think he might be able to defend bigs that are more skilled and strong and less vertical (Lopez, Gasol, Sabonis, Turner, Vucevic, Jokic, Nurkic, etc.). I don't know if he can play center in the pick-and-roll against vertical threats (Allen, Capella, Davis, Bam, Drummond, Thompson, Gobert, Whiteside) UNLESS our guards do a better job recovering after they've been screened. Still, I think Williams could be effective at center against half the teams in the league.

Theis is proving he's a solid player. He doesn't roll over, even against top level competition. He competes and he is intelligent. He is just overmatched sometimes. Still, he's a good player to have.

We've hardly seen Kanter in our defensive system with our guards. I think there's a lot of potential he could be solid for us if our guards compete on ball-handlers at a high level.

If the Celtics play the Raptors in every series of the playoffs, Celts would win every time.

The Raptors are also playing small ball, so the Celts match up well with them.

It's big teams like the Bucks and Sixers that the Celts will have problems.

[Fierce1]

IMO the C's only shot at upgrading the defense/post presence for the post season run is
the buyout market.

If Toronto fades due to youth or injury....would they let Gasol go?  If the suns are a fluke, or Ayton comes back very strong, would they trade Baynes to another team...who would free him (with enticements) to come back to Boston?  (btw, if Baynes continues as is the Celts won't be able to resign him in the offseason).

Those are the two guys I'd want for this post season-Baynes or Gasol. 

as the OP suggested, I would be shocked if a wing like JB was death for a Steve Adams level center...
I think the team is learning how to play with center by committee....and then, if Robert Williams turns into a productive center who makes it hard to play the Adams level guy, such a trade would look really dumb.  I mean, this year Adams greater than Williams, but giving up Brown for a slight increase in title hopes...I don't think it's wise...especially with the decent Theis and Steven's coaching smarts as far as when and how to use each center on the roster. 


What other bigs might be bought out at later in the season?  the C's need an intimidator or skilled defender with size...for 15 minutes even to add to the center stew...and give Williams more time in case he needs it (love Williams but he's still young and high level post season play may be a lot to ask right now).

Will Dedmon stick in Sacramento all year long?

Celts tried that approach a couple of years ago when they got Greg Monroe for the playoffs.
Didn't work out too well for the Cs.

If the Celts will try to solve the problem by going with a cheap solution, buyout market, the Celts will just end up getting a cheap product.

Dedmon is not a defensive Center.

was remembering PJ Brown.  Where is he? 

obviously they don't need and wouldn't add a guy like Monroe this year.  I said defense/intimitation....did not realize Dedmon was poor on D...thought he was talked up in that regard.

Don't forget the Celts had Kevin Garnett in 2008.

PJ Brown was just to solidify the frontcourt.

Right now the Celts don't even have Al Horford.

Celts didn't win a championship because PJ Brown was playing heavy minutes in the playoffs.
What PJ Brown did was making sure the Celts didn't have a big drop-off on defense if KG comes out for a rest.

Celts had an MVP big man in KG in 2008.

Right now the Celts have Theis as the best Center.

It's apples and oranges.

[Fierce1]

The problem with the buyout market is you're at the mercy of the bidding war.

Celts could have had Kanter for last year's playoffs.
But Kanter chose the Blazers because he knew he would get more playing time with the Blazers with Nurkic out.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Wins against the Bucks and Raptors are both high level wins that exemplify the Cs ability to play a small-ball style that can win games. Small sample size so far though.

I think I see a couple plays each game from Robert Williams that make me think, "We might already have that guy on our roster."

I've seen solid play too by Grant Williams in stints. I think he might be able to defend bigs that are more skilled and strong and less vertical (Lopez, Gasol, Sabonis, Turner, Vucevic, Jokic, Nurkic, etc.). I don't know if he can play center in the pick-and-roll against vertical threats (Allen, Capella, Davis, Bam, Drummond, Thompson, Gobert, Whiteside) UNLESS our guards do a better job recovering after they've been screened. Still, I think Williams could be effective at center against half the teams in the league.

Theis is proving he's a solid player. He doesn't roll over, even against top level competition. He competes and he is intelligent. He is just overmatched sometimes. Still, he's a good player to have.

We've hardly seen Kanter in our defensive system with our guards. I think there's a lot of potential he could be solid for us if our guards compete on ball-handlers at a high level.

If the Celtics play the Raptors in every series of the playoffs, Celts would win every time.

The Raptors are also playing small ball, so the Celts match up well with them.

It's big teams like the Bucks and Sixers that the Celts will have problems.

I don't think the Raptors play anything close to small ball. They start Ibaka-Gasol-Siakim. They might move Siakim to power forward for stretches, but he has legit power forward size and skills.

[wdleehi]

IMO the C's only shot at upgrading the defense/post presence for the post season run is
the buyout market.

If Toronto fades due to youth or injury....would they let Gasol go?  If the suns are a fluke, or Ayton comes back very strong, would they trade Baynes to another team...who would free him (with enticements) to come back to Boston?  (btw, if Baynes continues as is the Celts won't be able to resign him in the offseason).

Those are the two guys I'd want for this post season-Baynes or Gasol. 

as the OP suggested, I would be shocked if a wing like JB was death for a Steve Adams level center...
I think the team is learning how to play with center by committee....and then, if Robert Williams turns into a productive center who makes it hard to play the Adams level guy, such a trade would look really dumb.  I mean, this year Adams greater than Williams, but giving up Brown for a slight increase in title hopes...I don't think it's wise...especially with the decent Theis and Steven's coaching smarts as far as when and how to use each center on the roster. 


What other bigs might be bought out at later in the season?  the C's need an intimidator or skilled defender with size...for 15 minutes even to add to the center stew...and give Williams more time in case he needs it (love Williams but he's still young and high level post season play may be a lot to ask right now).

Will Dedmon stick in Sacramento all year long?

Celts tried that approach a couple of years ago when they got Greg Monroe for the playoffs.
Didn't work out too well for the Cs.

If the Celts will try to solve the problem by going with a cheap solution, buyout market, the Celts will just end up getting a cheap product.

Dedmon is not a defensive Center.

How would you have the Celtics pay for the non-cheap option?   Who is out there that would help the Celtics more then the loss of Smart, Tatum or Hayward hurt?