Off-season targets?

[RodyTur10]

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Giving up that Memphis pick is painful.

Think about all these threads the last two years monitoring that pick and expecting a high lottery pick and if that turns into Valanciunas, while adding two cheap role players on our behalf.....it's a bit underwhelming.

I do like Valanciunas and he has had big performances in the playoffs in the past.

[SparzWizard]

Heard there are some rumors going on that the C's might be looking to trade Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye, and 2020 1st-round pick for Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Some interesting veteran leaderships there. And an experienced big.

[Somebody]

Heard there are some rumors going on that the C's might be looking to trade Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye, and 2020 1st-round pick for Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Some interesting veteran leaderships there. And an experienced big.

Going to pass on that trade, Aldridge is a plodding big at this point of his career and would muck up our offence as well as downgrade our defence.

[Jvalin]

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Imo, he'd be a bad fit in our system.

- He ain't mobile enough to play D on the perimeter.
- He cannot defend the pick n roll (allows 1.32 PPP).

Wouldn't trade for a starting Center, unless he can switch ball screens on the perimeter and defend the pick n roll.

Off the top of my head, these would be the skills I'd be looking for (in order of importance):

perimeter D > pick n roll D > 3pt shooting ≥ pick n roll offense > rim protection > rebounding > passing > anything else is just a bonus

[LilRip]

Heard there are some rumors going on that the C's might be looking to trade Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye, and 2020 1st-round pick for Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Some interesting veteran leaderships there. And an experienced big.

Going to pass on that trade, Aldridge is a plodding big at this point of his career and would muck up our offence as well as downgrade our defence.

I see what you mean. He’s not a great passer either. His best attribute is that he’s a scorer but he needs to be fed in the post to succeed. Seems like a bad fit, system-wise. He’d probably help rebounding but his positives seem redundant to what we’re building around (aka JT, JB and Kemba) while his negatives wouldn’t be covered up.

[gouki88]

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Giving up that Memphis pick is painful.

Think about all these threads the last two years monitoring that pick and expecting a high lottery pick and if that turns into Valanciunas, while adding two cheap role players on our behalf.....it's a bit underwhelming.

I do like Valanciunas and he has had big performances in the playoffs in the past.

It is pretty painful, especially when just a few years ago Adebayo was the 14th pick. That being said, the 14th pick from 2000 onwards has generally sucked. The highlights are Adebayo, Troy Murphy, Luke Ridnour, Marcus Morris and TJ Warren.

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Imo, he'd be a bad fit in our system.

- He ain't mobile enough to play D on the perimeter.
- He cannot defend the pick n roll (allows 1.32 PPP).

Wouldn't trade for a starting Center, unless he can switch ball screens on the perimeter and defend the pick n roll.

Off the top of my head, these would be the skills I'd be looking for (in order of importance):

perimeter D > pick n roll D > 3pt shooting ≥ pick n roll offense > rim protection > rebounding > passing > anything else is just a bonus

I think the need in our defensive scheme for a big-man can defend the perimeter is overblown. I also believe he has the ability to in the right scheme. I like to look at the example of Brook Lopez. Lopez has gone from being a terrible defender to an All-Defensive team player at age 30 in 2 years.
I know that he's playing alongside the DPOY, but I think Jonas V playing alongside elite defenders like Smart, Brown and Tatum could be a very effective defender for us. He's huge, has a great wingspan and good reflexes and a good defensive IQ.

I don't think looking for a better version of Theis is what we should be doing. Change it up

[Jvalin]

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Imo, he'd be a bad fit in our system.

- He ain't mobile enough to play D on the perimeter.
- He cannot defend the pick n roll (allows 1.32 PPP).

Wouldn't trade for a starting Center, unless he can switch ball screens on the perimeter and defend the pick n roll.

Off the top of my head, these would be the skills I'd be looking for (in order of importance):

perimeter D > pick n roll D > 3pt shooting ≥ pick n roll offense > rim protection > rebounding > passing > anything else is just a bonus

I think the need in our defensive scheme for a big-man can defend the perimeter is overblown. I also believe he has the ability to in the right scheme. I like to look at the example of Brook Lopez. Lopez has gone from being a terrible defender to an All-Defensive team player at age 30 in 2 years.
I know that he's playing alongside the DPOY, but I think Jonas V playing alongside elite defenders like Smart, Brown and Tatum could be a very effective defender for us. He's huge, has a great wingspan and good reflexes and a good defensive IQ.

I don't think looking for a better version of Theis is what we should be doing. Change it up

Since 2013/14 (the season CBS took over), our only traditional starting Center has been Tyler Zeller in 2014/15. Clearly, he wasn't a long-term option for the C's.

2013/14: Sully (started 44 games that season playing alongside Brandon Bass)
2014/15: Tyller Zeller
2015/16: Sully or Amir (they were our starting duo at PF-C)
2016-2019: Horford
2019/20: Theis

It seems that CBS loves his undersized big men. Unless you are proposing we should move on from CBS, I don't see us changing our defensive scheme (neither do I want us to change it for that matter). 

Brook Lopez

You said it yourself: he's playing next to the DPOY. If you ask me, Giannis is the best help defender in the NBA. BroLo ain't playing D on the perimeter. He's just protecting the rim. Check out this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teLNFPjznrc

All BroLo does is staying back and protecting the rim. That's not the way the C's operate on D.

[Vermont Green]

Heard there are some rumors going on that the C's might be looking to trade Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye, and 2020 1st-round pick for Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Some interesting veteran leaderships there. And an experienced big.

Wow, that would be interesting.  I would do it.  I am not saying I think this would move the needle in a big way but I like the added size over what we give up with Hayward.  And all just for 1 year of contracts so we are not all tied up.

Yes, I would do this trade.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Heard there are some rumors going on that the C's might be looking to trade Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye, and 2020 1st-round pick for Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Some interesting veteran leaderships there. And an experienced big.

Sauce?

[Somebody]

Heard there are some rumors going on that the C's might be looking to trade Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojeleye, and 2020 1st-round pick for Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Some interesting veteran leaderships there. And an experienced big.

Going to pass on that trade, Aldridge is a plodding big at this point of his career and would muck up our offence as well as downgrade our defence.

I see what you mean. He’s not a great passer either. His best attribute is that he’s a scorer but he needs to be fed in the post to succeed. Seems like a bad fit, system-wise. He’d probably help rebounding but his positives seem redundant to what we’re building around (aka JT, JB and Kemba) while his negatives wouldn’t be covered up.

He's become an elite big man shooter so it's not like he won't add value to our offence even if we don't use his ability to score in the post, but it's been historically proven that a combination of on/off-ball shooting, passing and creation is the holy grail for offensive talent in scaling upwards alongside more and more talented offensive teammates, which is what Hayward has in spades.

[BitterJim]

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Imo, he'd be a bad fit in our system.

- He ain't mobile enough to play D on the perimeter.
- He cannot defend the pick n roll (allows 1.32 PPP).

Wouldn't trade for a starting Center, unless he can switch ball screens on the perimeter and defend the pick n roll.

Off the top of my head, these would be the skills I'd be looking for (in order of importance):

perimeter D > pick n roll D > 3pt shooting ≥ pick n roll offense > rim protection > rebounding > passing > anything else is just a bonus

I think the need in our defensive scheme for a big-man can defend the perimeter is overblown. I also believe he has the ability to in the right scheme. I like to look at the example of Brook Lopez. Lopez has gone from being a terrible defender to an All-Defensive team player at age 30 in 2 years.
I know that he's playing alongside the DPOY, but I think Jonas V playing alongside elite defenders like Smart, Brown and Tatum could be a very effective defender for us. He's huge, has a great wingspan and good reflexes and a good defensive IQ.

I don't think looking for a better version of Theis is what we should be doing. Change it up

Since 2013/14 (the season CBS took over), our only traditional starting Center has been Tyler Zeller in 2014/15. Clearly, he wasn't a long-term option for the C's.

2013/14: Sully (started 44 games that season playing alongside Brandon Bass)
2014/15: Tyller Zeller
2015/16: Sully or Amir (they were our starting duo at PF-C)
2016-2019: Horford
2019/20: Theis

It seems that CBS loves his undersized big men. Unless you are proposing we should move on from CBS, I don't see us changing our defensive scheme (neither do I want us to change it for that matter). 

Brook Lopez

You said it yourself: he's playing next to the DPOY. If you ask me, Giannis is the best help defender in the NBA. BroLo ain't playing D on the perimeter. He's just protecting the rim. Check out this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teLNFPjznrc

All BroLo does is staying back and protecting the rim. That's not the way the C's operate on D.

Baynes started 67 at center games in 2018.

The biggest issue with fitting a slow-footed big into our defensive scheme is finding one who makes the defense better. If we play better just switching everything than with a more traditional defense that includes a big man anchoring, then it makes sense to stick with the switch everything defense (even if, in a vacuum, the more traditional big man is the better defender). If we can bring in a defender that adds enough to change the scheme,I don't think Brad would fight it. It's just that prime Marc Gasol/Tyson Chandler/Rudy Goberts are hard to find/acquire. As for someone like Valancunias, I don't think they're a good enough anchor for it to make sense for us to move away from a more switch-centric scheme (although having a big man anchoring should help us hide Walker, which would be a huge plus in the playoffs)

[gouki88]

What do people think about trying to get Jonas Valanciunas? He doesn't really fit the age profile of their core of Morant, Jackson & Clarke. I love his game. Big, strong as an ox, great rebounder, can score from all 3 levels now, and he's a better defender than he's given credit for. He's not overly quick, but he's smart and puts his 7'6" wingspan to great use bothering shots.

Could this get it done:
https://tradenba.com/trades/JkC-txpcP

It removes our pseudo-logjam at centre, getting rid of 2 guys best-suited to bench big roles and bringing in a legitimate starter level big man. Grizz get their pick back and some cap flexibility with 3 expirings.

I would be all aboard this. He's a cheaper alternative to guys like Vucevic or Turner, and I think he's genuinely better than Turner.

Imo, he'd be a bad fit in our system.

- He ain't mobile enough to play D on the perimeter.
- He cannot defend the pick n roll (allows 1.32 PPP).

Wouldn't trade for a starting Center, unless he can switch ball screens on the perimeter and defend the pick n roll.

Off the top of my head, these would be the skills I'd be looking for (in order of importance):

perimeter D > pick n roll D > 3pt shooting ≥ pick n roll offense > rim protection > rebounding > passing > anything else is just a bonus

I think the need in our defensive scheme for a big-man can defend the perimeter is overblown. I also believe he has the ability to in the right scheme. I like to look at the example of Brook Lopez. Lopez has gone from being a terrible defender to an All-Defensive team player at age 30 in 2 years.
I know that he's playing alongside the DPOY, but I think Jonas V playing alongside elite defenders like Smart, Brown and Tatum could be a very effective defender for us. He's huge, has a great wingspan and good reflexes and a good defensive IQ.

I don't think looking for a better version of Theis is what we should be doing. Change it up

Since 2013/14 (the season CBS took over), our only traditional starting Center has been Tyler Zeller in 2014/15. Clearly, he wasn't a long-term option for the C's.

2013/14: Sully (started 44 games that season playing alongside Brandon Bass)
2014/15: Tyller Zeller
2015/16: Sully or Amir (they were our starting duo at PF-C)
2016-2019: Horford
2019/20: Theis

It seems that CBS loves his undersized big men. Unless you are proposing we should move on from CBS, I don't see us changing our defensive scheme (neither do I want us to change it for that matter). 

Brook Lopez

You said it yourself: he's playing next to the DPOY. If you ask me, Giannis is the best help defender in the NBA. BroLo ain't playing D on the perimeter. He's just protecting the rim. Check out this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teLNFPjznrc

All BroLo does is staying back and protecting the rim. That's not the way the C's operate on D.

Baynes started 67 at center games in 2018.

The biggest issue with fitting a slow-footed big into our defensive scheme is finding one who makes the defense better. If we play better just switching everything than with a more traditional defense that includes a big man anchoring, then it makes sense to stick with the switch everything defense (even if, in a vacuum, the more traditional big man is the better defender). If we can bring in a defender that adds enough to change the scheme,I don't think Brad would fight it. It's just that prime Marc Gasol/Tyson Chandler/Rudy Goberts are hard to find/acquire. As for someone like Valancunias, I don't think they're a good enough anchor for it to make sense for us to move away from a more switch-centric scheme (although having a big man anchoring should help us hide Walker, which would be a huge plus in the playoffs)

7'
This is definitely part of it for me. I feel like JV would open things for us simply by being 7' and 265lbs, which would move us in the right direction for me.

As you rightly say, with Baynes as our starting C we went further in the ECF than we did this season. Baynes is/was a pretty slow-footed defender on the perimeter, but his ability to be in the right places for interior defence and his ability to match up with the Embiid's of the league. I find JV very similar in that regard.
He also holds his own against Embiid. Against JV Embiid averages 19/10/3 with two blocks. Well below his career averages of 24/12, and in the last two match-ups Embiid has a combined 20 points.

I think JV is being undersold on defence

[Jvalin]

Since 2013/14 (the season CBS took over), our only traditional starting Center has been Tyler Zeller in 2014/15. Clearly, he wasn't a long-term option for the C's.

2013/14: Sully (started 44 games that season playing alongside Brandon Bass)
2014/15: Tyller Zeller
2015/16: Sully or Amir (they were our starting duo at PF-C)
2016-2019: Horford
2019/20: Theis

It seems that CBS loves his undersized big men. Unless you are proposing we should move on from CBS, I don't see us changing our defensive scheme (neither do I want us to change it for that matter). 

Baynes started 67 at center games in 2018.

Fair enough. Even so, our most used lineup in the playoffs that year was with Marcus Morris instead of Baynes.

most used lineup (121 minutes)
Rozier - Brown - Tatum - Morris - Horford

2nd most used lineup (85 minutes)
Rozier - Brown - Tatum - Horford - Baynes

3rd most used (55 minutes)
Rozier - Smart - Tatum - Morris - Horford

4th most used (54 minutes)
Rozier - Brown - Tatum - Semi - Horford

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=MIN&dir=1

Baynes started in 12 out of our 19 games, but he was only playing 20.5 minutes per game.

having a big man anchoring should help us hide Walker

I strongly disagree with this take. The way our pick n roll defense works right now, Theis meets the ball handler at the level of the dribble hand off and denies penetration. If we had a slow footed big man who drops back to protect the rim, opponents would just blow by Kemba. Remember the series against the Sixers? This is exactly what we were doing against Milton and Embiid (both below average pick n roll defenders). Kemba got tons of open shots in that series. Here's the play we kept running. It's just a simple pick on the perimeter, yet the Sixers were unable to defend it.

[gouki88]

I strongly disagree with this take. The way our pick n roll defense works right now, Theis meets the ball handler at the level of the dribble hand off and denies penetration. If we had a slow footed big man who drops back to protect the rim, opponents would just blow by Kemba. Remember the series against the Sixers? This is exactly what we were doing against Milton and Embiid (both below average pick n roll defenders). Kemba got tons of open shots in that series. Here's the play we kept running. It's just a simple pick on the perimeter, yet the Sixers were unable to defend it.

I think using a team that has Milton and Harris defending on the perimeter as opposed to guys like Brown, Smart and Tatum for defensive comparisons is pretty disingenuous.

But given you want Simmons to play C for us I'm not overly surprised that the idea of a genuine centre isn't something you're hot on

[Jvalin]

I strongly disagree with this take. The way our pick n roll defense works right now, Theis meets the ball handler at the level of the dribble hand off and denies penetration. If we had a slow footed big man who drops back to protect the rim, opponents would just blow by Kemba. Remember the series against the Sixers? This is exactly what we were doing against Milton and Embiid (both below average pick n roll defenders). Kemba got tons of open shots in that series. Here's the play we kept running. It's just a simple pick on the perimeter, yet the Sixers were unable to defend it.

I think using a team that has Milton and Harris defending on the perimeter as opposed to guys like Brown, Smart and Tatum for defensive comparisons is pretty disingenuous.

But given you want Simmons to play C for us I'm not overly surprised that the idea of a genuine centre isn't something you're hot on

It doesn't really matter who's playing next to Kemba and (let's say) Valanciunas, cause the opposing coaches would just target Kemba. All they need to do is order their Center to set a pick on the perimeter. Valanciunas would drop back, hence their ball handler would blow by past Kemba.

If you ask me, Simmons is the most switchable 6'10+ guy in the NBA. He's an amazing perimeter defender + pick n roll defender. I literally cannot think of a big man who'd be a better fit in our defensive system.