Author Topic: Back up pg  (Read 2630 times)

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Back up pg
« on: December 12, 2017, 12:23:26 AM »

Offline konkmv

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Ok we got destroyed by the bulls... when you got a player like irving who scores 25p per game you don't need another first shooting pg..  and we have 2... Smart and rosier... they are good bench players but cannot lead a team... they are not making brown and tatum better.. it is crazy that they shot 12 times and Tatum only 7... I know everyone will say that he lost 6 but sometimes it's about the angle you get the ball how good a system is played and so on... and these things are controlled by the pg. smart is taking too many shots for being such a bad shooter... Nader Larkin should be gone(non factors) and one of smart rosier.. we need a true pg and secondary reliable scoring option. Thank you

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 12:30:30 AM »

Offline Chris22

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I'd like to see more of Bird.
Every time I see him, he looks good.

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 01:32:10 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Bring back Dionte Christmas!
Banner 18 please 😍

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 01:41:09 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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lol best team in the East, and yet some how I knew after today there would be a disaster thread on here.  Here it is!!!

Calm down fella, we are 2-1 this year in games Kyrie hasn't played.  Today we were without Kyrie, without Marcus Morris, without Gordon Hayward, and Tatum + Horford both had uncharacteristically average games...and as a result we lost.

It happens, no need get get all "apocolypse now" for it.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 01:51:24 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 01:43:49 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I'd like to see more of Bird.
Every time I see him, he looks good.

Dude, he retired a long time ago :P

(yes, that was a joke, and I know we have a current guy called Bird lol)

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 01:51:11 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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P.s.
Regarding the need for a secondary scorer at PG, I would like to point out that Rozier is currently averaging Per-36 numbers of:

14.1 Points
3.0 Assists
7.1 Rebounds
1.7 Steals
1.0 Turnovers
2.2 Fouls
38% FG
35% 3PT
81% FT
3.0 Assists Per Turnoiver
+7 Net Rtg
+1.5 Box Plus/Minus
+1.34 Real Plus/Minus (+0.75 ORPM, +0.59 DRPM) - 15th among PG

Sure the FG% isn't great, and his outright assist numbers could use a lift, but aside from that he's actually been playing pretty darn well.  His turnover numbers in particular are historically low, his assist-to-turnover ratio is very high, and he is one of the only players on the team who (according to advanced stats) makes a positive impact on both ends of the court when he's on. 

As a general rule, when a guy has been out and Rozier has been given extended minutes, he's tended to step up and play very well. He seems to struggle a lot more when he plays more limited minutes, but as far as backup Point Guards go it's hard to ask for much more - especially given the measly $4M or so he's being paid.

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 03:37:39 AM »

Offline konkmv

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Who talked about disaster... I am just saying that the second unit is not good enough to compete with great teams.... if you want to stay a top 6 team in the league, so be it... I want us to compete for the title eventually... if you think that smart and rosier are good pg that's ok... I feel they are trying more to play for getting buckets... and they are not so good at it... never were

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 06:11:28 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
. I am just saying that the second unit is not good enough to compete with great teams..

I don't think that after last night it can compete with bad teams either.

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 09:10:01 AM »

Offline coffee425

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P.s.
Regarding the need for a secondary scorer at PG, I would like to point out that Rozier is currently averaging Per-36 numbers of:

14.1 Points
3.0 Assists
7.1 Rebounds
1.7 Steals
1.0 Turnovers
2.2 Fouls
38% FG
35% 3PT
81% FT
3.0 Assists Per Turnoiver
+7 Net Rtg
+1.5 Box Plus/Minus
+1.34 Real Plus/Minus (+0.75 ORPM, +0.59 DRPM) - 15th among PG

Sure the FG% isn't great, and his outright assist numbers could use a lift, but aside from that he's actually been playing pretty darn well.  His turnover numbers in particular are historically low, his assist-to-turnover ratio is very high, and he is one of the only players on the team who (according to advanced stats) makes a positive impact on both ends of the court when he's on. 

As a general rule, when a guy has been out and Rozier has been given extended minutes, he's tended to step up and play very well. He seems to struggle a lot more when he plays more limited minutes, but as far as backup Point Guards go it's hard to ask for much more - especially given the measly $4M or so he's being paid.

per 36 is just a terrible statline in general.
1) no one on this team plays actually 36 minutes per game
2) as a point guard to come in and run the offense, 3 assists for a full 36 minutes would be probably the worst in the league
3) there's a reason that Brad doesnt play him great minutes and especialily not in crunch time. I'll trust the genius coach over this board.
Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 09:25:29 AM »

Offline Eric_Suede

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Monta Ellis!!

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 09:38:55 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I do think that Larkin has showed that he can't play at this level anymore.

I feel for him. He brings energy. He is active on defense. He tries to get into the pick-and-roll, but in the end, he just doesn't bring anything to the table.

I'm ready to move on from him. Release him and sign guard with the DPE.

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 10:33:41 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Per-36 numbers of:

14.1 Points
3.0 Assists
7.1 Rebounds
1.7 Steals
1.0 Turnovers
2.2 Fouls
38% FG
35% 3PT
81% FT
3.0 Assists Per Turnoiver
+7 Net Rtg
+1.5 Box Plus/Minus
+1.34 Real Plus/Minus (+0.75 ORPM, +0.59 DRPM) - 15th among PG

These numbers show exactly what you are getting with Rozier.  He is not really a PG, a combo at best, so he is not giving us assists.  I think he does move the ball well and creates opportunities through penetration and spacing.  These don't show up as stats though, you have to watch the game.

He is a very inefficient scorer but gives us very good defense including rebounding.  The net is that he is impacting the game in a positive way.

More and more efficient scoring would be nice from someone on the second unit though.  With both Rozier and Smart out there, they are kind of the same type of player.  Rozier should be doing better regarding scoring efficiency, no doubt.  I think the potential is there.  He is probably doing better in practice.  He may get traded for a more reliable option but I don't see anything right now that is likely.

Re: Back up pg
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 10:45:24 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I do think that Larkin has showed that he can't play at this level anymore.

I feel for him. He brings energy. He is active on defense. He tries to get into the pick-and-roll, but in the end, he just doesn't bring anything to the table.

I'm ready to move on from him. Release him and sign guard with the DPE.
Our DPE should be for a big. I would bring back Jordan Crawford for Larkin. Brad worked wonders with him. He could have went off last night and brought us back.
"People look at players, watch them dribble between their legs and they say, 'There's a superstar.'  Well John Havlicek is a superstar, and most of the others are figments of writers' imagination."
--Jerry West, on John Havlicek