Author Topic: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?  (Read 17900 times)

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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2021, 08:25:22 AM »

Offline jambr380

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My hot take:

LarBird33 was a better talent evaluator than most of the posters in this thread.

This thread is a bust.

Whatever happened to LarBird33?

He was banned a few times for overzealous posting. I don’t remember if he left voluntarily or was permanently banned, but I think he left on his own before he was perma-banned. A lot of unnecessary drama either way.

I can pretty much confirm that he was perma-banned on CS, but not all is lost. If you desire unfiltered LB, then visit Celtics Reddit. He is one of the biggest voices over there and he posts a LOT. Personally, I preferred his posting on this site over what he does at Reddit. The posters here are generally more knowledgeable and I think he understood that. Unfortunately his anti-authoritarian stance is also what led to his demise on CS. With nobody really trying to hold him accountable (or in line) - Reddit is much more fast paced - he actually gets bogged down in a lot fewer squabbles.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 04:19:56 PM by jambr380 »

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2021, 08:47:34 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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I did not like either pick at all.

Border line hated them both, but give Nesmith at least a little time.

He has only played a total of 66 NBA minutes and has only taken 23 shots.
Edwards in his rookie season played 351 minutes and took 128 shots.

Nesmith has played in 5 of his first 12 professional games
Edwards played in 11 of his first 12 professional games.

I am not sure if Nesmith will ever be a good player, but Brad is doing nothing to help him out at this point.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2021, 08:54:20 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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As others have said its really to early to judge


However my thoughts when they where drafted have only been reinforced in their short careers.

I had Langford ranked 17th over all in a fairly large 4th tier and liked his length, ability to attach the basketball and his blue chip pedigree. At the time of the draft I preferred they draft Doumbouya.  Langford's physical profile was everything you would look for in a smaller wing. His concerns where is outside shot and his defense. To his credit defense has become his strength while the shot is still a work in progress. I have little doubt that a healthy Langford is at least a very nice option as the first wing off the bench and his ceiling is of a 15ppg starter.

With Nesmith I have always been skeptical. My big red flag watching him in college was his lateral quickness and this hasn't changed. He simply does not move laterally at a level that is typical of a 6'6 215lbs NBA wing. Ironically like Langford I have Nesmith ranked 17th on my celtics based tiers. His potential as an elite shooter made it hard for me to push him out of the top 20. Based on my board my pick at #14 would have been RJ Hampton. My hope for Nesmith is that he is able to combine added strength (and weight) along with better perimeter defensive technique/IQ and become a player who can defend up. He is always going to struggle guarding explosive sub 6'7 NBA wings but he may be able to bulk to the 230-235lb range (not crazy to hope a 21 year old gains a healthy 15lbs) and then be able to defend up.         

 
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2021, 08:58:28 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Both will be players for a long time in the NBA. That much is already clear to me.

I think Langford could carve himself out an Andre Roberson role and earn a solid second contract. But I also think that CBS will bring his offensive game around slowly and he will end up being more like a Justice Winslow with the Heat or Delon Wright. I still have higher hopes for him than that, but I already see the path forward for him to become a long-term wing rotation player. He still needs development to get there.

I personally like what I've seen from Nesmith so far. I like his aggressiveness, even though its leading to a lot of missed shots and turnovers. I like some of his drive and kick and reset game that I've seen. I like his conscientiousness and work ethic on defense, even though so far that just means he gets taken advantage a lot and fouls a lot. He's much, much quicker and longer than I expected him to be, but I feel like his athleticism still hasn't caught up fully with his body. I have no idea what kind of player I think he will become. Tim Hardaway Jr., Malik Beasley, and Terrance Ross all seem like good projections, but its going to be a few years before he gets there, if at all. Still, I think he's an NBA player that will earn a second contract. He's the guy that I could see developing more and more throughout his career.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2021, 08:59:20 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Also hate seeing Isaiah Joe knocking down bombs from everywhere. I knew he was going to be a good NBA player.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2021, 09:39:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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When you draft an injured player you can't use injuries as an excuse for lack of performance.  It was a bad pick because he was injured and appears to be injury prone.  Now maybe he at some point gets healthy, but how many games lost until that happens.
This pretty much makes no sense.  And maybe I'm not remembering correctly but weren't you one of the posters who were thrilled with Joel Embiid's performance the two years after he was drafted in which he didn't even play in a game?  Not to mention Simmons who didn't play in his first year.  Only the Sixers should draft injured players?  I don't get it.
Simmons wasn't injured when he was drafted.  He hurt himself in a Sixers scrimmage in September.  Big difference.  And the Sixers took a chance on Embiid and couldn't use injuries as an excuse for lack of performance either.  There is also a difference between a top pick and the middle of a 1st round pick from a talent standpoint.  You can wait a bit more for a player that would have been the top pick in the draft, but for the injuries (especially when you are still in asset acquisition mode), then a guy that was only a lottery pick because you drafted him.  The C's have a lottery pick that has missed around 60% of his games due to injury and was clearly still hampered by injury in the 40% of the games he has played and he was injured when he was drafted (this isn't a case where he got hurt after the draft, like Simmons).  Maybe he finally gets healthy and turns out to be a rotation player, maybe he doesn't, but there were plenty of rotational players drafted after Langford that haven't missed a ton of games due to injury, including one guy that a lot on this board wanted to draft i.e. Brandon Clarke.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2021, 09:46:10 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Both will be players for a long time in the NBA. That much is already clear to me.

I think Langford could carve himself out an Andre Roberson role and earn a solid second contract. But I also think that CBS will bring his offensive game around slowly and he will end up being more like a Justice Winslow with the Heat or Delon Wright. I still have higher hopes for him than that, but I already see the path forward for him to become a long-term wing rotation player. He still needs development to get there.

I personally like what I've seen from Nesmith so far. I like his aggressiveness, even though its leading to a lot of missed shots and turnovers. I like some of his drive and kick and reset game that I've seen. I like his conscientiousness and work ethic on defense, even though so far that just means he gets taken advantage a lot and fouls a lot. He's much, much quicker and longer than I expected him to be, but I feel like his athleticism still hasn't caught up fully with his body. I have no idea what kind of player I think he will become. Tim Hardaway Jr., Malik Beasley, and Terrance Ross all seem like good projections, but its going to be a few years before he gets there, if at all. Still, I think he's an NBA player that will earn a second contract. He's the guy that I could see developing more and more throughout his career.

Langford and Roberson are vastly different players. Langord at every level except the NBA has been a primary creator and go to scorer. Roberson was a super athletic undersized big who carved out a 3-D role despite really lacking as a shooter.
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2021, 10:08:43 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Both will be players for a long time in the NBA. That much is already clear to me.

I think Langford could carve himself out an Andre Roberson role and earn a solid second contract. But I also think that CBS will bring his offensive game around slowly and he will end up being more like a Justice Winslow with the Heat or Delon Wright. I still have higher hopes for him than that, but I already see the path forward for him to become a long-term wing rotation player. He still needs development to get there.

I personally like what I've seen from Nesmith so far. I like his aggressiveness, even though its leading to a lot of missed shots and turnovers. I like some of his drive and kick and reset game that I've seen. I like his conscientiousness and work ethic on defense, even though so far that just means he gets taken advantage a lot and fouls a lot. He's much, much quicker and longer than I expected him to be, but I feel like his athleticism still hasn't caught up fully with his body. I have no idea what kind of player I think he will become. Tim Hardaway Jr., Malik Beasley, and Terrance Ross all seem like good projections, but its going to be a few years before he gets there, if at all. Still, I think he's an NBA player that will earn a second contract. He's the guy that I could see developing more and more throughout his career.

Langford and Roberson are vastly different players. Langord at every level except the NBA has been a primary creator and go to scorer. Roberson was a super athletic undersized big who carved out a 3-D role despite really lacking as a shooter.

No I agree with you. Langford has demonstrated that he can work the baseline off-ball and is a strong on-ball defender. Overall abilities and potential, I think Langford is a different player. But his current and near future role is a lot like Roberson.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2021, 10:19:41 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Wow.

Nesmith has a couple of weeks of training camp, two pre-season games, and twelve regular season games under his belt and people want to call him a bust.  This is on top of, injuring his foot on 1/28/2020 and missing the rest of the college season.  He's basically getting his feet back under him.

As for Romeo, y'all know my feelings there.  He was coming into his own before injuring the wrist in the bubble.  he was being used as a defensive replacement and Brad was having some trust in him. 

Yeah, bust not yet!
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2021, 10:29:52 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Remember when 90% of the blog labeled Avery Bradley a bust?

I’ve learned to wait and see. 


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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2021, 11:32:08 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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Remember when 90% of the blog labeled Avery Bradley a bust?

I’ve learned to wait and see.
While Bradley got resigned after his rookie deal and eventually looked like a bargain contract (he was salary dumped to the pistons ironically)
Would we have resigned Bradley to reap his better production and play after his rookie deal if we had the big 3 plus rondo at max or near max deals?
In other words if we trade (let’s say Beal) for a third max player to go with the Js and smart can we afford to retain Nesmith and Romeo if they prove they belong after 3-4 years in the nba ? Currently we have committed $7.5 - $9M over four years to those two and there is a high chance we won’t retain them .... does it make sense to use the money above on better players currently?

Terry was ok but now is balling on another team. Similar thing

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2021, 12:02:56 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Both will be players for a long time in the NBA. That much is already clear to me.

I think Langford could carve himself out an Andre Roberson role and earn a solid second contract. But I also think that CBS will bring his offensive game around slowly and he will end up being more like a Justice Winslow with the Heat or Delon Wright. I still have higher hopes for him than that, but I already see the path forward for him to become a long-term wing rotation player. He still needs development to get there.

I personally like what I've seen from Nesmith so far. I like his aggressiveness, even though its leading to a lot of missed shots and turnovers. I like some of his drive and kick and reset game that I've seen. I like his conscientiousness and work ethic on defense, even though so far that just means he gets taken advantage a lot and fouls a lot. He's much, much quicker and longer than I expected him to be, but I feel like his athleticism still hasn't caught up fully with his body. I have no idea what kind of player I think he will become. Tim Hardaway Jr., Malik Beasley, and Terrance Ross all seem like good projections, but its going to be a few years before he gets there, if at all. Still, I think he's an NBA player that will earn a second contract. He's the guy that I could see developing more and more throughout his career.

Langford and Roberson are vastly different players. Langord at every level except the NBA has been a primary creator and go to scorer. Roberson was a super athletic undersized big who carved out a 3-D role despite really lacking as a shooter.

No I agree with you. Langford has demonstrated that he can work the baseline off-ball and is a strong on-ball defender. Overall abilities and potential, I think Langford is a different player. But his current and near future role is a lot like Roberson.

My preferred Langford projection/comp is Kent Bazemore. Both are smaller wings who compensate for lack of height with great length. If like Bazemore Romeo can become a consistent threat from 3 and run some pick and role ( I think these are very resonable expectations) he becomes a great compliment to Tatum and Brown. 
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2021, 12:12:54 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Don’t know about these two, but this draft pick starting five could beat most nba teams...

Pritchard
Smart
Tatum
Brown
Rob Williams

We have a ton of young talent. Loaded for years to come. Great drafting by Ainge.

Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2021, 12:16:12 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Remember when 90% of the blog labeled Avery Bradley a bust?

I’ve learned to wait and see.

I agree fans need to stay patient with young players but there is also some value in young players showing glimpses of their potential. I remember being at the last game of the season ABs rookie year vs the knicks. With all the starters resting AB played significant minutes and was clearly on a different level athletically from the Knicks perimeter players. That raw ability later proved to be a sign that AB would be a highly productive pro. I also feel that Langford had a few of those litmus test moments last season. I hope we see some similar signs from Nesmith this year.
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Re: How Bad Are the Nesmith and Langford Picks?
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2021, 12:25:20 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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For sure you have to be patient, but also realistic. It’s going to be darn tough for rookies to earn minutes over great picks like Smart, Brown, and Tatum. Face it, we’re stacked with young talent.

Maybe they luck out and get more of a chance to earn minutes after Ainge makes a trade (TPE). Or maybe we’re even more stacked. Who knows.

Good luck to Nesmith and Romeo.