Ainge Explains Why He Didn't Make A Minor Move For Rebounding..

[BitterJim]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

[footey]

What do any of the reasons you guys are bringing up have  anything to do with throwing 2 2nd round picks for Noel? You're giving up nothing, what are you even losing at this point? You can trade for George and then resign Noel.

I do agree with some, people on this board really do make excuses for Ainge. He's a great GM, but everyone makes mistake. He clearly did, because they didn't have to give much. If they care so much about spacing, then don't play Amir Johnson and Tyler Zeller. That point right there is what you guys that are backing Ainge are missing....Noel can take those minutes and then you don't have to resign him because you didn't give anything up.

Pretty simple, Ainge messed up. If Noel turns out to be great for Dallas, I wonder what the excuse will be then.

I love Ainge by the way, and it's awesome he ignores fans. Stay the patient route, but you can also make similar trades to the IT one. Noel was a perfect example of that.

Amir is a good passer, screener, and is shooting 41% from 3 on the season.  Why should he not be played if the team cares about spacing?  He's not Horford or Olynyk, but I'm not sure what you're saying.

Seriously? You think Amir spreads the floor? And Noel > Johnson. I'm shocked people would argue this. Noel was killing Amir when we played them. Do you not remember?

Yes, he spreads the floor.  I don't really think that's up for debate.

I disagree, he shoots less than one three in a game. He's always wide open for 3 too...Nobody guards him out on the perimeter. Watch tonights game and you'll see what I mean. He most scores on rolls and put backs....

Amir has played better the last 3rd of the season, at least from my observation.  He seems more aggressive. I think his level of play depends on how his feet feel, he obviously has to deal with pain a lot.  He never complains.  He is such a good soldier. 

[Bobshot]

I keep reading those quotes about rebounding and defense on twitter, and wonder if they will come back to haunt him. I suspect he really didn't mean quite what he said, but was just trying to rationalize failing to get some rebounding help. Damage control.

I don't think Larry Bird or Bill Russell or McHale would agree. In fact, most GMs in the NBA would not agree, from the way most teams are put together. The most successful teams have diverse talents which fill all of the basic needs. Rebounding and rim protection is one of them.

I find his comments confusing. 

[The Oracle]

What Danny said is EXACTLY what I have said multiple times on here over the last few years.  It is a false dichotomy to believe that you can stretch the floor the way the C's do with their bigs and also offensive rebound at a great rate.  It is also a false dichotomy to believe your big men  can defend the perimeter the way the C's do with their bigs and also defensive rebound at a great rate.

Horford leads all big men in contested 3 point shot attempts at 3.6 per game.  Olynyk is 5th at 2.9 per game and far and away leads all centers at 4.8 per 36.  You CANNOT expect your big men to defend on the perimeter a ton AND defensive rebound at a great rate. 

Rebounding should never be a focal point in deciding which big men to acquire and/or deploy.  You must defend 1st and slow bigs that hang around the paint and rebound are of NO help defending on the perimeter.  The C's bigs must be able to help defend the perimeter because I.T./Avery/Rozier are terrible at fighting over screens.  The C's would get slaughtered if the bigs hang back toward the paint and do not extend out to the 3 point line.

With that said the C's have a defensive rebound rate of 74.7% this year,  the C's title team of 2008 had a defensive rebound rate of 74.4%.  The argument for adding a rebounding big is nonsense and would cause a ton of other problems on the floor.

[tankcity!]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

Interesting, because from what I've seen this year, Cleveland knows our weakness and continues to exploit. Good to know you're not about making adjustments. Funny how the Warriors or Spurs, or Cleveland don't this weakness.

Also, clearly you believe Zizic doesn't belong in this system. Just to be consistent

[tankcity!]

What do any of the reasons you guys are bringing up have  anything to do with throwing 2 2nd round picks for Noel? You're giving up nothing, what are you even losing at this point? You can trade for George and then resign Noel.

I do agree with some, people on this board really do make excuses for Ainge. He's a great GM, but everyone makes mistake. He clearly did, because they didn't have to give much. If they care so much about spacing, then don't play Amir Johnson and Tyler Zeller. That point right there is what you guys that are backing Ainge are missing....Noel can take those minutes and then you don't have to resign him because you didn't give anything up.

Pretty simple, Ainge messed up. If Noel turns out to be great for Dallas, I wonder what the excuse will be then.

I love Ainge by the way, and it's awesome he ignores fans. Stay the patient route, but you can also make similar trades to the IT one. Noel was a perfect example of that.

Amir is a good passer, screener, and is shooting 41% from 3 on the season.  Why should he not be played if the team cares about spacing?  He's not Horford or Olynyk, but I'm not sure what you're saying.

Seriously? You think Amir spreads the floor? And Noel > Johnson. I'm shocked people would argue this. Noel was killing Amir when we played them. Do you not remember?

Yes, he spreads the floor.  I don't really think that's up for debate.

I disagree, he shoots less than one three in a game. He's always wide open for 3 too...Nobody guards him out on the perimeter. Watch tonights game and you'll see what I mean. He most scores on rolls and put backs....

Amir has played better the last 3rd of the season, at least from my observation.  He seems more aggressive. I think his level of play depends on how his feet feel, he obviously has to deal with pain a lot.  He never complains.  He is such a good soldier.

Yeah I love the guy too. He is doing the best he can. Poor guy has so many miles on him. Not trying to trash Amir, just attempting to point out Ainge isn't being honest in that interview.

[KGs Knee]

What do any of the reasons you guys are bringing up have  anything to do with throwing 2 2nd round picks for Noel? You're giving up nothing, what are you even losing at this point? You can trade for George and then resign Noel.

I do agree with some, people on this board really do make excuses for Ainge. He's a great GM, but everyone makes mistake. He clearly did, because they didn't have to give much. If they care so much about spacing, then don't play Amir Johnson and Tyler Zeller. That point right there is what you guys that are backing Ainge are missing....Noel can take those minutes and then you don't have to resign him because you didn't give anything up.

Pretty simple, Ainge messed up. If Noel turns out to be great for Dallas, I wonder what the excuse will be then.

I love Ainge by the way, and it's awesome he ignores fans. Stay the patient route, but you can also make similar trades to the IT one. Noel was a perfect example of that.

Amir is a good passer, screener, and is shooting 41% from 3 on the season.  Why should he not be played if the team cares about spacing?  He's not Horford or Olynyk, but I'm not sure what you're saying.

Seriously? You think Amir spreads the floor? And Noel > Johnson. I'm shocked people would argue this. Noel was killing Amir when we played them. Do you not remember?

Yes, he spreads the floor.  I don't really think that's up for debate.

I disagree, he shoots less than one three in a game. He's always wide open for 3 too...Nobody guards him out on the perimeter. Watch tonights game and you'll see what I mean. He most scores on rolls and put backs....

I agree Amir isn't spreading the floor with his shooting, defenders rarely ever bother to stick with him on the perimeter. He's made a solid percentage of a tiny sample size, and only shoots when wide open. Nobody is respecting him as a shooter. I'd bet his 'gravity' metric is low, but I haven't an idea where to actually find that stat, I've only seen it referenced in articles.

Amir does set good screens though, which is helpful in providing space for the ball handler to either get off their own shot, or force the defense to help, thus creating an open player somewhere else.

But plenty of bigs can provide what Amir does, and quite a few who are more mobile and better at rebounding. My guess is Ainge just didn't like the cost to benefit ratio acquiring that type of big would entail.

[BitterJim]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

Interesting, because from what I've seen this year, Cleveland knows our weakness and continues to exploit. Good to know you're not about making adjustments. Funny how the Warriors or Spurs, or Cleveland don't this weakness.

Also, clearly you believe Zizic doesn't belong in this system. Just to be consistent

When did I say either of those things? mctyson pointed out that, by "style of play", Danny meant "playing small", and I added that it would also include our tendency to look for fast breaks (since having guards leaking out and big men focusing more on getting the ball to the guards than getting the ball to begin with will tend to impact your defensive rebounding negatively)

I haven't said anything about Zizic or Noel not fitting or not thinking that adjustments should be made.  I don't mean to be rude, but you may want to reread the post's I've made and replied to in this string

[liam]

What Danny said is EXACTLY what I have said multiple times on here over the last few years.  It is a false dichotomy to believe that you can stretch the floor the way the C's do with their bigs and also offensive rebound at a great rate.  It is also a false dichotomy to believe your big men  can defend the perimeter the way the C's do with their bigs and also defensive rebound at a great rate.

Horford leads all big men in contested 3 point shot attempts at 3.6 per game.  Olynyk is 5th at 2.9 per game and far and away leads all centers at 4.8 per 36.  You CANNOT expect your big men to defend on the perimeter a ton AND defensive rebound at a great rate. 

Rebounding should never be a focal point in deciding which big men to acquire and/or deploy.  You must defend 1st and slow bigs that hang around the paint and rebound are of NO help defending on the perimeter.  The C's bigs must be able to help defend the perimeter because I.T./Avery/Rozier are terrible at fighting over screens.  The C's would get slaughtered if the bigs hang back toward the paint and do not extend out to the 3 point line.

With that said the C's have a defensive rebound rate of 74.7% this year,  the C's title team of 2008 had a defensive rebound rate of 74.4%.  The argument for adding a rebounding big is nonsense and would cause a ton of other problems on the floor.

Ah, facts...

[tankcity!]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

Interesting, because from what I've seen this year, Cleveland knows our weakness and continues to exploit. Good to know you're not about making adjustments. Funny how the Warriors or Spurs, or Cleveland don't this weakness.

Also, clearly you believe Zizic doesn't belong in this system. Just to be consistent

When did I say either of those things? mctyson pointed out that, by "style of play", Danny meant "playing small", and I added that it would also include our tendency to look for fast breaks (since having guards leaking out and big men focusing more on getting the ball to the guards than getting the ball to begin with will tend to impact your defensive rebounding negatively)

I haven't said anything about Zizic or Noel not fitting or not thinking that adjustments should be made.  I don't mean to be rude, but you may want to reread the post's I've made and replied to in this string

Okay great, so Ainge is basically lying in the interview correct? Because he's saying he prefers bigs that spread the floor. Clearly this can't be true when we play Amir and planning on playing Zizic next year.

That is my point, hard to argue that Ainge is being honest here or consistent.

[liam]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

Interesting, because from what I've seen this year, Cleveland knows our weakness and continues to exploit. Good to know you're not about making adjustments. Funny how the Warriors or Spurs, or Cleveland don't this weakness.

Also, clearly you believe Zizic doesn't belong in this system. Just to be consistent

Who says Zizic can't shoot? .83 percent from the free throw line. Free throw shooting is the best predictor of shooting ability and future ability.

[tankcity!]

What Danny said is EXACTLY what I have said multiple times on here over the last few years.  It is a false dichotomy to believe that you can stretch the floor the way the C's do with their bigs and also offensive rebound at a great rate.  It is also a false dichotomy to believe your big men  can defend the perimeter the way the C's do with their bigs and also defensive rebound at a great rate.

Horford leads all big men in contested 3 point shot attempts at 3.6 per game.  Olynyk is 5th at 2.9 per game and far and away leads all centers at 4.8 per 36.  You CANNOT expect your big men to defend on the perimeter a ton AND defensive rebound at a great rate. 

Rebounding should never be a focal point in deciding which big men to acquire and/or deploy.  You must defend 1st and slow bigs that hang around the paint and rebound are of NO help defending on the perimeter.  The C's bigs must be able to help defend the perimeter because I.T./Avery/Rozier are terrible at fighting over screens.  The C's would get slaughtered if the bigs hang back toward the paint and do not extend out to the 3 point line.

With that said the C's have a defensive rebound rate of 74.7% this year,  the C's title team of 2008 had a defensive rebound rate of 74.4%.  The argument for adding a rebounding big is nonsense and would cause a ton of other problems on the floor.

Ah, facts...

How come Houston doesn't have this issue? Or the Spurs, or the Warriors? They spread the floor?

[SHAQATTACK]

it's been exactly 6 years to the day since we traded perk

6 years since we've had a CENTER playing center. Hopefully we don't have to wait much longer.

Right on Brother ...TP

[Evantime34]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

Interesting, because from what I've seen this year, Cleveland knows our weakness and continues to exploit. Good to know you're not about making adjustments. Funny how the Warriors or Spurs, or Cleveland don't this weakness.

Also, clearly you believe Zizic doesn't belong in this system. Just to be consistent

Do you think we would have beat Cleveland even if we added a rebounder? I don't think adding a rebounder would have changed the outcome of that potential series.

Golden State, Cleveland, Toronto and Washington are all bottom third of the league in defensive rebounding.

I think guys like Zizic can succeed in our system as can other paint based big men. However, those guys need to be good enough at other things to mitigate the hit to our floor spacing that would occur. I'm not sure that there were good rebounders available that do enough other things to counter act the negative spacing effect on offense. We could still get Bogut which would help us, but I'm not sure the guys that were available to Ainge had more + than minuses even if there pluses fit a need.

[tankcity!]

Danny's right about roster construction - it isn't worth putting a rebounding specialist on the floor who just makes you suck in halfcourt.

It's not only that but the fact that anyone who would meaningfully make them a better rebounding team would have to be a top-7 rotation guy, who would take minutes away from better all-around players, and ultimately make the team worse.

I think he's wrong that the C's aren't a good rebounding team because of the way they play offense. They are the second worst team in DRB%.

He also said 'style of play' in this context by which he means 'we play small.'

I would add in that looking for fast breaks often plays a role as well

This is all fine and dandy, but when Cleveland wrecks us on the boards, will you be saying the same thing? All I'm saying is be consistent. If you think we don't need someone like Noel, then we better never get a player like Noel because according to you, a player like Noel doesn't fit our system, which I scoff at. He can guard all 5 positions, but whatever.

Yes, if/when that happens I will still be saying that looking for fast breaks often plays a role in our poor defensive rebounding

Interesting, because from what I've seen this year, Cleveland knows our weakness and continues to exploit. Good to know you're not about making adjustments. Funny how the Warriors or Spurs, or Cleveland don't this weakness.

Also, clearly you believe Zizic doesn't belong in this system. Just to be consistent

Who says Zizic can't shoot? .83 percent from the free throw line. Free throw shooting is the best predictor of shooting ability and future ability.

Would be awesome if he turns into a good shooter. I haven't seen it, but yeah possible.