Could Ainge have improved the Celtics in 2009?

[BballTim]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

[Jon]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Well, the longer the window would've been open, the longer Posey would have had value. 

As for the money this summer and next; I'm not sure it affects things all that much.  Wyc just said that that luxury tax isn't an issue.  Furthermore, if Posey came back, the team likely wouldn't have signed Tony Allen, saving the C's about 2 million a year.  Thus, the overall price difference between Posey and whoever his replacement ends up being over the next few years is probably only a few million a year. 

[BballTim]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Well, the longer the window would've been open, the longer Posey would have had value. 

As for the money this summer and next; I'm not sure it affects things all that much.  Wyc just said that that luxury tax isn't an issue.  Furthermore, if Posey came back, the team likely wouldn't have signed Tony Allen, saving the C's about 2 million a year.  Thus, the overall price difference between Posey and whoever his replacement ends up being over the next few years is probably only a few million a year. 

  The Celts didn't think that Posey would have value for that long. Wyc said he'd spend into the luxury cap, not spend an unlimited amount. Last year Danny seemed to be limited in what he could spend so I think next year he will be also. An TA's contract ends next summer. After that they'd probably be looking to replace Posey in spite of the fact that they'd still be paying him for two more years.

[cordobes]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Ainge wasn't worried about that - at most, signign Posey could have affected how much money Danny had to spend in 2012.

[BballTim]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Ainge wasn't worried about that - at most, signign Posey could have affected how much money Danny had to spend in 2012.

  Why wouldn't the amount of salaries on the book affect how much money he has to spend?

[footey]

No time to read this thread. Question: could we have gotten Chris "Birdman" Anderson last season? I know he came here for a tryout, and we ended up signing O'Bryant.  Would Birdman have come here if we made an offer? He seemed pretty keen on Denver, because his agent lives there, and helped him to overcome his addiction.

[Chris]

No time to read this thread. Question: could we have gotten Chris "Birdman" Anderson last season? I know he came here for a tryout, and we ended up signing O'Bryant.  Would Birdman have come here if we made an offer? He seemed pretty keen on Denver, because his agent lives there, and helped him to overcome his addiction.

No one knows.  He said to a reporter after working out here that he hoped the C's would offer him a contract, but he also has said that he chose to go to Denver, because that is where his mentor lives. 

We really have no idea whether Danny made him an offer, and he didn't accept it, or if Danny didn't make him an offer.

I am sure the C's could have enticed him with more than the vet minimum, but that would have been a very tough call for a guy who was suspended for 2 years, and then played in just a couple games last year, and was on the bench the entire playoffs...especially since he wasn't a great player even before the suspension. 

[winsomme]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Ainge wasn't worried about that - at most, signign Posey could have affected how much money Danny had to spend in 2012.

  Why wouldn't the amount of salaries on the book affect how much money he has to spend?

another way to look at it however is that it would be one less position that we would have to fill....

but also, they were fine going two years for Posey, so I think it's fair to conclude that Posey's contract wasn't going to be a hinderance at least in the first two years of it....

[BballTim]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Ainge wasn't worried about that - at most, signign Posey could have affected how much money Danny had to spend in 2012.

  Why wouldn't the amount of salaries on the book affect how much money he has to spend?

another way to look at it however is that it would be one less position that we would have to fill....

but also, they were fine going two years for Posey, so I think it's fair to conclude that Posey's contract wasn't going to be a hinderance at least in the first two years of it....

  The problem was we'd probably be looking to fill the backup sf spot before Posey's contract runs out. And they were fine with 2 years of the deal but they'd have still been working within a budget. What if we sign a MLE (or close to MLE) player this summer or next? We could be signing that player with money that's available to Danny because Posey's not under contract. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the Celt's would add a new MLE player every year.

[winsomme]

You're right that the Big Three do limit Ainge.  That's the curse that comes along with the blessing of having three superstars. 

Still, he could've resigned Posey.  Had he done that, the C's would have had their perimeter defender, Pierce wouldn't have been exhausted, and they would have had someone to guard Rashard Lewis.  They probably would be playing Cleveland right now. 

However, without KG, they weren't going to win it all. 

Too much money for Posey for too long.

Completely disagree.  What would Posey's contract have prevented us from doing?  Three years from now the C's window is going to be over.  If Posey's contract held up the rebuilding process a year, it would be a small price to pay for winning a couple more titles.  Moreover, two years from now he'd be going into his last year, making his contract quite appealing to teams looking for expiring deals. 

So I don't exactly see how a four year contract would have hurt this team. 

  I don't think it's a given that the window is closing this year or next. And what if Posey's signing affected how much money Danny had to spend this summer and next?

Ainge wasn't worried about that - at most, signign Posey could have affected how much money Danny had to spend in 2012.

  Why wouldn't the amount of salaries on the book affect how much money he has to spend?

another way to look at it however is that it would be one less position that we would have to fill....

but also, they were fine going two years for Posey, so I think it's fair to conclude that Posey's contract wasn't going to be a hinderance at least in the first two years of it....

  The problem was we'd probably be looking to fill the backup sf spot before Posey's contract runs out. And they were fine with 2 years of the deal but they'd have still been working within a budget. What if we sign a MLE (or close to MLE) player this summer or next? We could be signing that player with money that's available to Danny because Posey's not under contract. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the Celt's would add a new MLE player every year.

all possible, but the thing that is fixed is the ways that teams who are over the cap can sign players.

if we had spent the MLE last off season we COULD  not be able to spend it this season due to restraints put on Danny by the owners, but at least we WOULD have it to spend.

as for filling the SF spot in years three and four, I don't know that I would put a "probably" as the qualifier there. Pose has been on the north side of 70 games just about every season. He seems pretty durable.

also, I remember that this was one of the reasons to not go 4 years on Johnny Damon for instance and he's now, in his 4th season, having his best year so far in Pinstripes....and last year wasn't far behind

[boscel33]

"Could Ainge have improved the Celtics in 2009?"

Wow, improve a team that finished second in the conference and lost in the second round to a team that pressured them for the second best record (conference).  Boy are we spoiled!  The fact that we lost Posey, did not seem to matter through the season.  The fact that we lost both KG and Powe for the playoffs is a far larger hole to fill than Posey.  Look at the increase in minutes from the regular season to the playoffs.  It's no wonder why these guys lost their legs.  Walker played 4 games!  This is where I think Doc deserves some of the blame.

[gar]

Lets hope that KG is working the phone lines while rehabbing his knee. Ray is also a huge asset in that regard. Rasheed Wallace is one of my least fav. players; but if we can get him we have to try.
Most of the players that the Celtics wanted are still in the playoffs. Is there something that they knew that we didn't. Birdman, Tay Jones, Joe Smith, Pietrus are all making Ainge look pretty bad right now. Keeping TA was a big problem; but we have to remember that he had limited value coming off of the knee injury. Now that the knee is OK his other limitations are more obvious. Scal is Scal he continues to be an enigma and will not get much love anywhere. So Danny has his work cut out for him.

Really proud of the determination everyone showed; but we can't have another season like last where Doc is allowed to run players into the ground like that. Lets hope Tibbs stays - that is huge!

[BballTim]

  The problem was we'd probably be looking to fill the backup sf spot before Posey's contract runs out. And they were fine with 2 years of the deal but they'd have still been working within a budget. What if we sign a MLE (or close to MLE) player this summer or next? We could be signing that player with money that's available to Danny because Posey's not under contract. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the Celt's would add a new MLE player every year.

all possible, but the thing that is fixed is the ways that teams who are over the cap can sign players.

if we had spent the MLE last off season we COULD  not be able to spend it this season due to restraints put on Danny by the owners, but at least we WOULD have it to spend.

  I think it's highly unlikely that Ainge has the ok to sign a player to a multi-year MLE deal every year unless he starts dumping current players. It's clear that Ainge doesn't have a blank check.

as for filling the SF spot in years three and four, I don't know that I would put a "probably" as the qualifier there. Pose has been on the north side of 70 games just about every season. He seems pretty durable.

  He's durable but not super-athletic and slowing down. Would you be happier if I'd have phrased it like "in Ainge's estimation we'd probably need to get a replacement for Posey while James still had 1-2 years left on his deal"?

[winsomme]

  The problem was we'd probably be looking to fill the backup sf spot before Posey's contract runs out. And they were fine with 2 years of the deal but they'd have still been working within a budget. What if we sign a MLE (or close to MLE) player this summer or next? We could be signing that player with money that's available to Danny because Posey's not under contract. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the Celt's would add a new MLE player every year.

all possible, but the thing that is fixed is the ways that teams who are over the cap can sign players.

if we had spent the MLE last off season we COULD  not be able to spend it this season due to restraints put on Danny by the owners, but at least we WOULD have it to spend.

  I think it's highly unlikely that Ainge has the ok to sign a player to a multi-year MLE deal every year unless he starts dumping current players. It's clear that Ainge doesn't have a blank check.

saying Ainge doesn't have a blank check is different than saying he can't use the MLE in consecutive seasons.

  He's durable but not super-athletic and slowing down. Would you be happier if I'd have phrased it like "in Ainge's estimation we'd probably need to get a replacement for Posey while James still had 1-2 years left on his deal"?

I'm not seeing the slowing down. He looks like the same player this year as last. And his stats have been remarkably steady.

Will he slow down in the future? Maybe. Maybe not.

[BballTim]

  The problem was we'd probably be looking to fill the backup sf spot before Posey's contract runs out. And they were fine with 2 years of the deal but they'd have still been working within a budget. What if we sign a MLE (or close to MLE) player this summer or next? We could be signing that player with money that's available to Danny because Posey's not under contract. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the Celt's would add a new MLE player every year.

all possible, but the thing that is fixed is the ways that teams who are over the cap can sign players.

if we had spent the MLE last off season we COULD  not be able to spend it this season due to restraints put on Danny by the owners, but at least we WOULD have it to spend.

  I think it's highly unlikely that Ainge has the ok to sign a player to a multi-year MLE deal every year unless he starts dumping current players. It's clear that Ainge doesn't have a blank check.

saying Ainge doesn't have a blank check is different than saying he can't use the MLE in consecutive seasons.

  Obviously, but pointing that out adds nothing to the debate.

  He's durable but not super-athletic and slowing down. Would you be happier if I'd have phrased it like "in Ainge's estimation we'd probably need to get a replacement for Posey while James still had 1-2 years left on his deal"?

I'm not seeing the slowing down. He looks like the same player this year as last. And his stats have been remarkably steady.

Will he slow down in the future? Maybe. Maybe not.

  Yes, we'll see.