Did Doc cost us a championship by going for the 2nd seed?

[Gunner]

Doc overused key players in the 2nd half of the season.

Pierce and Ray in particular played huge minutes so we could get the 2nd seed.

in 2008 Pierce and Ray sat some games and played reduced minutes in the last couple of weeks in the season.

This year, they played huge minutes right to the end.

Guys like Davis, who had played "sub minutes" were also made to play much more when KG, Scal and other big men were out.

We eventually got home court, but still lost to Orlando.

Home court really didn't make a difference in the Chicago or Orlando series.

Being rested did!

It looked to me, like Ray, Pierce, Rondo and the boys were burned out.

They had played big minutes at the end of the season and even bigger minutes in the great playoff series against the Bulls.

As we now see, Cleveland and the Lakers are beatable.

A well rested Ray, Pierce, Rondo etc could have gone into Orlando and won a game 7.

But a burned out team couldn't win at home.

I hope Doc has learned his lesson.

[PaulPierce34G]

You can't put full blame on Doc.  It has to go upwards to the management as well.  I think had they provided him with better players in certain areas as backups, not going bargain basement shopping, or waiting till the last minute to see what was available, Doc wouldn't have had to run Allen & more specifically Pierce into the ground.  Would the Celts still have made the playoffs if he managed their time better? of course..they may have slipped to the 3rd seed, thus giving them homecourt for only the first round before they faced Orlando...but homecourt is important.  The Celts felt they could win on the road, but everyone wants to play as many games in their own building as possible.  Your rims, your court, your fans, less traveling from state to state. 

You ca go on and on, give scenarios as to "what if things were done this way, etc." at the end of the day, the team did the best they could with what they had. Let them get better, make the roster moves they need to make over the summer & bring on 2009-2010.

[Scribbles]

I thought about this we lost.  I think it was a big factor because, either way we would have played Orlando and home court didn't mean anything in hindsight.  But it is what it is, I've moved on and have focused on next season.   

[CoachBo]

You can't put full blame on Doc.  It has to go upwards to the management as well.  I think had they provided him with better players in certain areas as backups, not going bargain basement shopping, or waiting till the last minute to see what was available, Doc wouldn't have had to run Allen & more specifically Pierce into the ground.  Would the Celts still have made the playoffs if he managed their time better? of course..they may have slipped to the 3rd seed, thus giving them homecourt for only the first round before they faced Orlando...but homecourt is important.  The Celts felt they could win on the road, but everyone wants to play as many games in their own building as possible.  Your rims, your court, your fans, less traveling from state to state. 

You ca go on and on, give scenarios as to "what if things were done this way, etc." at the end of the day, the team did the best they could with what they had. Let them get better, make the roster moves they need to make over the summer & bring on 2009-2010.

TP. Management didn't give Doc the pieces he needed.

[Roy Hobbs]

You can't put full blame on Doc.  It has to go upwards to the management as well.  I think had they provided him with better players in certain areas as backups, not going bargain basement shopping, or waiting till the last minute to see what was available, Doc wouldn't have had to run Allen & more specifically Pierce into the ground.  Would the Celts still have made the playoffs if he managed their time better? of course..they may have slipped to the 3rd seed, thus giving them homecourt for only the first round before they faced Orlando...but homecourt is important.  The Celts felt they could win on the road, but everyone wants to play as many games in their own building as possible.  Your rims, your court, your fans, less traveling from state to state. 

You ca go on and on, give scenarios as to "what if things were done this way, etc." at the end of the day, the team did the best they could with what they had. Let them get better, make the roster moves they need to make over the summer & bring on 2009-2010.

TP. Management didn't give Doc the pieces he needed.

Yeah, Doc's options were: 1) overplay Pierce, 2) play Tony Allen (on the rare occasions he was healthy), or 3) play a second round rookie.  Doc wasn't exactly dealt a strong hand, and everyone should be able to recognize that.  That's why Doc is out front campaigning for legitimate players to be added to the team this off-season.

[angryguy77]

why does everyone keep over looking the fact that Paul and ray were slowed by injuries? They were hampered more by that imo than fatigue

[Roy Hobbs]

why does everyone keep over looking the fact that Paul and ray were slowed by injuries? They were hampered more by that imo than fatigue

That cuts both ways; the injuries could have -- at least in part -- been caused by being overplayed.

I don't think there's much doubt that Ray and Pierce were exhausted, and their games suffered as a result.  However, I have a hard time putting all the blame for that on Doc's shoulders.  I would have played Bill Walker more -- and called on Doc during the season to do just that -- but I can understand why the coach didn't want to rely on a second rounder for heavy minutes.

[PaulPierce34G]

Injuries & fatigue can sort of go hand in hand. Being run down, it's easier for one's body to break down and succumb to injury.  I get what you are trying to say, though.  

[CoachBo]

why does everyone keep over looking the fact that Paul and ray were slowed by injuries? They were hampered more by that imo than fatigue

That cuts both ways; the injuries could have -- at least in part -- been caused by being overplayed.

I don't think there's much doubt that Ray and Pierce were exhausted, and their games suffered as a result.  However, I have a hard time putting all the blame for that on Doc's shoulders.  I would have played Bill Walker more -- and called on Doc during the season to do just that -- but I can understand why the coach didn't want to rely on a second rounder for heavy minutes.

The coach of the champs shouldn't have to rely on a second-round draft pick as his first line of backup behind two HOFers. Management failed him, along with Pierce and Ray, with its ill-fated and brain-dead decision to bypass any quality at the backup 3.

[MVP]

Everyone deserves some blame. Doc deserves blame because he has trouble staggering line-ups and likes to play the starting line-up for most of the 1st quarter and then brings the bench in together. This made him leave Pierce on the court for long stretches to play with the 2nd unit. He should have done a better job of staggering Rondo/Allen/Pierce so that 2 of them are on the court and not just play Pierce for almost the whole game in February/March.

Of course the DA deserves some blame because he took some risks during the offseason and they didn't work out. The players deserve some blame too because they should have beat the Bulls quicker and because of a lacadasical effort in game 1 and giving up a good lead at the end of game 6, they had to play a 7 game draining series.

[BballTim]

  We weren't going to win a title without KG. There are a lot of what-ifs. A free throw here and a basket there and we sweep Chicago with no OTs instead of going 7 games with 7 OTs. Even if the players were rested before that series they'd have come out of it tired.

[Fafnir]

You can't put full blame on Doc.  It has to go upwards to the management as well.  I think had they provided him with better players in certain areas as backups, not going bargain basement shopping, or waiting till the last minute to see what was available, Doc wouldn't have had to run Allen & more specifically Pierce into the ground.  Would the Celts still have made the playoffs if he managed their time better? of course..they may have slipped to the 3rd seed, thus giving them homecourt for only the first round before they faced Orlando...but homecourt is important.  The Celts felt they could win on the road, but everyone wants to play as many games in their own building as possible.  Your rims, your court, your fans, less traveling from state to state. 

You ca go on and on, give scenarios as to "what if things were done this way, etc." at the end of the day, the team did the best they could with what they had. Let them get better, make the roster moves they need to make over the summer & bring on 2009-2010.

TP. Management didn't give Doc the pieces he needed.

Yeah, Doc's options were: 1) overplay Pierce, 2) play Tony Allen (on the rare occasions he was healthy), or 3) play a second round rookie.  Doc wasn't exactly dealt a strong hand, and everyone should be able to recognize that.  That's why Doc is out front campaigning for legitimate players to be added to the team this off-season.

Yes and he did give Tony plenty of burn during the regular season when healthy. Doc did the best he could with a tough hand for the most part. Look at how well the Magic are playing. We did very well to take the to 7 without KG.

[BudweiserCeltic]

You can't put full blame on Doc.  It has to go upwards to the management as well.  I think had they provided him with better players in certain areas as backups, not going bargain basement shopping, or waiting till the last minute to see what was available, Doc wouldn't have had to run Allen & more specifically Pierce into the ground.  Would the Celts still have made the playoffs if he managed their time better? of course..they may have slipped to the 3rd seed, thus giving them homecourt for only the first round before they faced Orlando...but homecourt is important.  The Celts felt they could win on the road, but everyone wants to play as many games in their own building as possible.  Your rims, your court, your fans, less traveling from state to state. 

You ca go on and on, give scenarios as to "what if things were done this way, etc." at the end of the day, the team did the best they could with what they had. Let them get better, make the roster moves they need to make over the summer & bring on 2009-2010.

TP. Management didn't give Doc the pieces he needed.

Doc had more the enough. I think Doc lost sight of what was important during the season and it cost the team. But I put the blame of the players more than anything. But then again, we had too many injuries and I applaud the team for doing what they did despite adversity.

Come on now, Ray Allen was injured, Pierce was injured, Tony Allen was injured... those are our wing players. Then we have Powe and Garnett, and we know how that left our front court.

Just too many injuries to really put blame on anyone.

Really, look at the shooting performance Ray Allen was having. Look at Rondo, who I think was also playing through injuries, and how he let the Orlando guards take control of games instead of putting the pressure on constantly. All we need to do is look at that first quarter of Game 3 against Chicago to see what Rondo should be doing with his speed. Then we have Pierce, who was on and off against Orlando. Really, come on.

[Gunner]

look at the minutes guys like Ray, Paul and Rondo played in the last few weeks of the season and in the playoffs.

Rondo 41 minutes a game for 14 games in the playoffs
Ray & Pierce both 40 minutes a game for 14 games in the playoffs.

Davis and Perkins both also played 36 minutes a game.

At the end of the season these guys were playing similar minutes.

Doc burned out Ray, Pierce and Rondo in particular.

If we had given up on the 2 seed, we could have rested these guys like we did last year.

We would have fallen below the 3 seed in any circumstances.

If we were the 3 seed, we also would have played Philly in the first round, which would have been and easier series than Chicago.

We beat Philly in 5 or 6 games.

We beat Orlando in 6 games with Paul, Ray and Rondo more rested.

We still have no one to cover lebron, to give Paul a breather, but at least Paul is much more rested.

Doc and the Celtics overrated the importance of the 2 seed.

They thought home court would be a deciding factor.

But energy and health out weight home court every time.

[Chris]

Doc overplayed the veterans, because the backup wings he had were either not ready to play significant minutes, crappy, or both.  While I would have liked for him to have rested Pierce and Allen a bit more, I can never fault a coach for trying to win every game he coaches.  It is the GM's responsibility to give him the pieces to be able to win it without running guys into the ground, and Danny whiffed on the backup wing position this year.