NBA 2019-2020 season thread

[jambr380]

The Harden-Westbrook backcourt was a combined 18 for 68 tonight, scoring 69 points on 68 shots.

This is approaching Kobe levels of shot-hunting.

Ironically, possibly the worst (non)call of the year went against Harden/Rockets tonight:

https://sports.yahoo.com/james-harden-rockets-fan-free-throw-fouls-response-045018140.html

You have to scroll down mid-way for the video and explanation from the ref, but it's pretty amazing. Harden dunked the ball so hard that it came back out through the net and then rolled off the top of the rim. The explanation is pretty jaw-dropping, too. The Rockets were irate right when it happened, but because they didn't officially challenge it in the time allotted, they were unable to review it.

[Fafnir]

Anytime you have a big dynasty team there are ton of fans who watch because they are so good. The idea that GSW fans are all bandwaggoners is silly, look at how well the "We Believe" and the Curry/Monta teams were supported.

[Fafnir]

Rockets being so upset about that one call when they lost a 16 point fourth quarter lead is something.

Look at this quote in the ESPN article.

The Rockets are hopeful the league office will either award the victory to Houston due to the Rockets outscoring the Spurs in regulation or order that the final 7 minutes, 50 seconds be replayed at a later date, sources said.

I wonder how many teams are "hopeful" that they get retroactive victories after they lose by less than 3 after Harden legged kicked his way into BS 3 shot fouls. Or do they just get do-overs? Or heck can we just replay all the times Harden grabs guys arms and flails for foul calls?

I get being mad about a missed call, I get that way all the time. But expecting a retroactive win? What an annoying front office full of whiners.

Bad calls happen, but to demand you get a redo of the last EIGHT minutes of a game you blew because of one is peak poor loser.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The Harden-Westbrook backcourt was a combined 18 for 68 tonight, scoring 69 points on 68 shots.

This is approaching Kobe levels of shot-hunting.

Ironically, possibly the worst (non)call of the year went against Harden/Rockets tonight:

https://sports.yahoo.com/james-harden-rockets-fan-free-throw-fouls-response-045018140.html

You have to scroll down mid-way for the video and explanation from the ref, but it's pretty amazing. Harden dunked the ball so hard that it came back out through the net and on the top of the rim. The explanation is pretty jaw-dropping, too. The Rockets were irate right when it happened, but because they didn't officially challenge it, they were unable to overturn it.

As I read this morning, the refs didn't allow them to challenge it. Is that incorrect?

[Fafnir]

The Harden-Westbrook backcourt was a combined 18 for 68 tonight, scoring 69 points on 68 shots.

This is approaching Kobe levels of shot-hunting.

Ironically, possibly the worst (non)call of the year went against Harden/Rockets tonight:

https://sports.yahoo.com/james-harden-rockets-fan-free-throw-fouls-response-045018140.html

You have to scroll down mid-way for the video and explanation from the ref, but it's pretty amazing. Harden dunked the ball so hard that it came back out through the net and on the top of the rim. The explanation is pretty jaw-dropping, too. The Rockets were irate right when it happened, but because they didn't officially challenge it, they were unable to overturn it.

As I read this morning, the refs didn't allow them to challenge it. Is that incorrect?

Yup, because they didn't challenge it within 30 seconds. They were yelling at the refs for longer than that so they didn't allow a review.

Wonder why the refs weren't charitable with the Rockets. 

[Fafnir]

LOL and they were still up 13 even without the dunk counting!

They got so worked up over it they blew the lead and now its the refs fault and not their own weak mental game.....

[fairweatherfan]

Rockets being so upset about that one call when they lost a 16 point fourth quarter lead is something.

Look at this quote in the ESPN article.

The Rockets are hopeful the league office will either award the victory to Houston due to the Rockets outscoring the Spurs in regulation or order that the final 7 minutes, 50 seconds be replayed at a later date, sources said.

I wonder how many teams are "hopeful" that they get retroactive victories after they lose by less than 3 after Harden legged kicked his way into BS 3 shot fouls. Or do they just get do-overs? Or heck can we just replay all the times Harden grabs guys arms and flails for foul calls?

I get being mad about a missed call, I get that way all the time. But expecting a retroactive win? What an annoying front office full of whiners.

Bad calls happen, but to demand you get a redo of the last EIGHT minutes of a game you blew because of one is peak poor loser.

I don't know the league rules but being disallowed a clear basket seems like it could be one of the few things they'll let you appeal.

The last successful appeal like that I remember is when Shaq was on the Heat and the scorer gave him 6 fouls when one of them was on somebody else. They actually replayed the last minute of the game from that point. However that was a team employee's fault, not the refs', so I don't know if that changes anything.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421

[jambr380]

LOL and they were still up 13 even without the dunk counting!

They got so worked up over it they blew the lead and now its the refs fault and not their own weak mental game.....

It sounds like you are letting your own personal bias play a part here. It doesn't really matter that they were up by so much or that they are 'mentally weak'. What matters is that the refs blew a pretty 'slam dunk' call (yep, I did it) and the Rockets likely suffered a loss because of it. Any fan base would be irate over this happening to their team.

[nickagneta]

Rockets being so upset about that one call when they lost a 16 point fourth quarter lead is something.

Look at this quote in the ESPN article.

The Rockets are hopeful the league office will either award the victory to Houston due to the Rockets outscoring the Spurs in regulation or order that the final 7 minutes, 50 seconds be replayed at a later date, sources said.

I wonder how many teams are "hopeful" that they get retroactive victories after they lose by less than 3 after Harden legged kicked his way into BS 3 shot fouls. Or do they just get do-overs? Or heck can we just replay all the times Harden grabs guys arms and flails for foul calls?

I get being mad about a missed call, I get that way all the time. But expecting a retroactive win? What an annoying front office full of whiners.

Bad calls happen, but to demand you get a redo of the last EIGHT minutes of a game you blew because of one is peak poor loser.

Maybe Houston figures if the league can save their GM, then they can save the team on the court too. 😄

[johnnygreen]

I’ve seen the play several times, and I still can’t tell with certainty, if the ball went past the net. For a field goal to count, the ball has to go through the net, and not just past the rim. To me, that shouldn’t have needed a review by Houston, and that whole 30 second rule wouldn’t have even come into play. A play like that should be like the refs reviewing a three point attempt during a stoppage in play, to see if the player was beyond the three point line.

BTW, Harden’s real time reaction to “missing” the dunk probably didn’t help matters, as he immediately ran after the ball as if it was still a live play.

[johnnygreen]

LOL and they were still up 13 even without the dunk counting!

They got so worked up over it they blew the lead and now its the refs fault and not their own weak mental game.....

It sounds like you are letting your own personal bias play a part here. It doesn't really matter that they were up by so much or that they are 'mentally weak'. What matters is that the refs blew a pretty 'slam dunk' call (yep, I did it) and the Rockets likely suffered a loss because of it. Any fan base would be irate over this happening to their team.

Fact: The Rockets blew a 13 point lead after that “missed” dunk, and the Spurs tied the game before regulation ended.

Assumption: The Spurs wouldn’t have found a way to eventually tie the game before regulation ended, if the Harden dunk had counted.

[bdm860]

Rockets being so upset about that one call when they lost a 16 point fourth quarter lead is something.

Look at this quote in the ESPN article.

The Rockets are hopeful the league office will either award the victory to Houston due to the Rockets outscoring the Spurs in regulation or order that the final 7 minutes, 50 seconds be replayed at a later date, sources said.

I wonder how many teams are "hopeful" that they get retroactive victories after they lose by less than 3 after Harden legged kicked his way into BS 3 shot fouls. Or do they just get do-overs? Or heck can we just replay all the times Harden grabs guys arms and flails for foul calls?

I get being mad about a missed call, I get that way all the time. But expecting a retroactive win? What an annoying front office full of whiners.

Bad calls happen, but to demand you get a redo of the last EIGHT minutes of a game you blew because of one is peak poor loser.

I don't know the league rules but being disallowed a clear basket seems like it could be one of the few things they'll let you appeal.

The last successful appeal like that I remember is when Shaq was on the Heat and the scorer gave him 6 fouls when one of them was on somebody else. They actually replayed the last minute of the game from that point. However that was a team employee's fault, not the refs', so I don't know if that changes anything.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421

I'd be SHOCKED if Houston's appeal is successful.  No way is that happening.

Remember when the Blazers put 6 men on the floor against the C's and got an easy dunk?.  The Blazers got to keep that 2 points, and all the C's got was one technical foul free throw, so they came out -1 on that play, and the C's lost that game too.

You just can't go down the path of overturning missed calls by refs, it's part of the game.  The reason that Heat/Hawks game was replayed because that's outside forces influencing the outcome in favor of the home team (Hawks scorekeepers screwing up, as you mentioned).

Though according to this Ringer article, games have been replayed 6 times, and several seem to be from ref error:

The Hawks-Heat replayed game was the first do-over in the NBA in more than 25 years. The one prior to that happened when referees incorrectly called for a jump ball following a double lane violation at the end of a Lakers-Spurs game in 1982. Pat Riley was the coach of the Lakers when it happened.

There have actually been six replayed games in NBA history. There was the Hawks-Heat game (2007-08) and the Lakers-Spurs game (1982-83) I mentioned above, and so you know those two already. But there was also a Hawks-Warriors game during the 1952-53 season (the oddest part of this one is that the teams were the Milwaukee Hawks and Philadelphia Warriors), a Hawks-Bulls game during the 1969-70 season (the refs couldn’t decide whether a tip-in at the buzzer that had tied the game was before or after the buzzer, so they were just like, “[Screw] it, game over”; the NBA later ruled the basket was good and that the teams would replay the game starting with 0:01 on the clock), a Cavaliers-Braves game during the 1971-72 season, and a Nets-Sixers game during the 1978-79 season. (The 1952-53 Philadelphia Warriors and the 1982-83 Spurs are the only teams to reverse losses into wins after their replayed games.)

[fairweatherfan]

Rockets being so upset about that one call when they lost a 16 point fourth quarter lead is something.

Look at this quote in the ESPN article.

The Rockets are hopeful the league office will either award the victory to Houston due to the Rockets outscoring the Spurs in regulation or order that the final 7 minutes, 50 seconds be replayed at a later date, sources said.

I wonder how many teams are "hopeful" that they get retroactive victories after they lose by less than 3 after Harden legged kicked his way into BS 3 shot fouls. Or do they just get do-overs? Or heck can we just replay all the times Harden grabs guys arms and flails for foul calls?

I get being mad about a missed call, I get that way all the time. But expecting a retroactive win? What an annoying front office full of whiners.

Bad calls happen, but to demand you get a redo of the last EIGHT minutes of a game you blew because of one is peak poor loser.

I don't know the league rules but being disallowed a clear basket seems like it could be one of the few things they'll let you appeal.

The last successful appeal like that I remember is when Shaq was on the Heat and the scorer gave him 6 fouls when one of them was on somebody else. They actually replayed the last minute of the game from that point. However that was a team employee's fault, not the refs', so I don't know if that changes anything.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3192421

I'd be SHOCKED if Houston's appeal is successful.  No way is that happening.

Remember when the Blazers put 6 men on the floor against the C's and got an easy dunk?.  The Blazers got to keep that 2 points, and all the C's got was one technical foul free throw, so they came out -1 on that play, and the C's lost that game too.

You just can't go down the path of overturning missed calls by refs, it's part of the game.  The reason that Heat/Hawks game was replayed because that's outside forces influencing the outcome in favor of the home team (Hawks scorekeepers screwing up, as you mentioned).

Though according to this Ringer article, games have been replayed 6 times, and several seem to be from ref error:

The Hawks-Heat replayed game was the first do-over in the NBA in more than 25 years. The one prior to that happened when referees incorrectly called for a jump ball following a double lane violation at the end of a Lakers-Spurs game in 1982. Pat Riley was the coach of the Lakers when it happened.

There have actually been six replayed games in NBA history. There was the Hawks-Heat game (2007-08) and the Lakers-Spurs game (1982-83) I mentioned above, and so you know those two already. But there was also a Hawks-Warriors game during the 1952-53 season (the oddest part of this one is that the teams were the Milwaukee Hawks and Philadelphia Warriors), a Hawks-Bulls game during the 1969-70 season (the refs couldn’t decide whether a tip-in at the buzzer that had tied the game was before or after the buzzer, so they were just like, “[Screw] it, game over”; the NBA later ruled the basket was good and that the teams would replay the game starting with 0:01 on the clock), a Cavaliers-Braves game during the 1971-72 season, and a Nets-Sixers game during the 1978-79 season. (The 1952-53 Philadelphia Warriors and the 1982-83 Spurs are the only teams to reverse losses into wins after their replayed games.)

Oh I agree it's always very unlikely, slippery slope is a big concern there, just saying that a clear basket that was disallowed - and the refs have already admitted they missed - is the kind of unambiguous and game-altering error that MIGHT clear that very high bar. Still very stupid for Houston to forget to challenge regardless.

[Fafnir]

LOL and they were still up 13 even without the dunk counting!

They got so worked up over it they blew the lead and now its the refs fault and not their own weak mental game.....

It sounds like you are letting your own personal bias play a part here. It doesn't really matter that they were up by so much or that they are 'mentally weak'. What matters is that the refs blew a pretty 'slam dunk' call (yep, I did it) and the Rockets likely suffered a loss because of it. Any fan base would be irate over this happening to their team.

So anytime there is a clear blown call the team should blame the refs for the loss? Weak!

They had 8 minutes left in the game and a 13 point lead still!!

[nickagneta]

I didn't see the game but did see Houston had 36 FTs(24 for Harden). Did the refs possibly make a mistake on any of those calls, giving Houston 2 points on FTs? Wondering because if they did, will the league look at those plays too and how the refs made mistakes that benefitted the Rockets?

Once you go back to fix a ref mistake by granting a replayed game, in my opinion, you are opening the door to all the other ref mistakes that happen that affect scores.

Not sure I see the League office giving Houston their do over.