Author Topic: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?  (Read 5826 times)

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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2018, 02:44:54 PM »

Offline Moranis

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.
Simmons right now is a better rebounder, passer, and ball handler than Brown will ever be.  And while Brown is a better defender, Simmons is a very good defender whose size gives him incredible advantages that Brown will never have defensively.  Simmons is a bad shooter, but he still puts the ball in the hole at a pretty good percentage.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter he is one dimensional is quite frankly nonsense.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter now, he won't get better at it, is also nonsense.  Simmons is a much better player than Brown and will be for a decade barring injury. 
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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2018, 03:14:31 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.
Simmons right now is a better rebounder, passer, and ball handler than Brown will ever be.  And while Brown is a better defender, Simmons is a very good defender whose size gives him incredible advantages that Brown will never have defensively.  Simmons is a bad shooter, but he still puts the ball in the hole at a pretty good percentage.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter he is one dimensional is quite frankly nonsense.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter now, he won't get better at it, is also nonsense.  Simmons is a much better player than Brown and will be for a decade barring injury.

Yeah Simmons is better-described as a -1 dimensional player.  He does basically everything well but shoot, and several things at a near-elite level already.  Problem is shooting is such a big area to be so bad at that it arguably offsets a lot of the other contributions.  But definitely not one-dimensional.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2018, 03:19:41 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What I find interesting about Ben Simmons is the extent to which you can reasonably view his career so far as an answer to the question: "What if young Rondo were 6'10''?"
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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2018, 03:29:42 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.

Simmons right now is a better rebounder, passer, and ball handler than Brown will ever be.

I absolutely agree.

Quote
And while Brown is a better defender, Simmons is a very good defender whose size gives him incredible advantages that Brown will never have defensively.


What does it matter if Simmons has more size, if he doesn't use it to his advantage? Like you said, Brown is the better defender.

Quote
Simmons is a bad shooter, but he still puts the ball in the hole at a pretty good percentage.

That's not as much as an accomplishment as it sounds. Simmons only takes very high percentage shots. Gobert, Adams and Capela also finish at a high rate at the rim. Simmons simply refuses to shoot outside the paint.

Quote
This idea that because he is a bad shooter he is one dimensional is quite frankly nonsense.
 

Correct. I didn't phrase this correctly. What I meant is that he is a ''It's what you see is what you get'' type of player. To me he's still exactly the same player as he was in college. 

Quote
This idea that because he is a bad shooter now, he won't get better at it, is also nonsense.
 

We simply don't know. He isn't showing any improvement or willingness to change his shot so far.

Quote
Simmons is a much better player than Brown and will be for a decade barring injury.

You could be right. But during the playoffs Brown was the one who was much better.

When the competition gets tougher and the team gets better the more I lean to rather having Brown on my side.

I feel that Simmons is a master in destroying weak opposition, but unable to adjust against strong teams.


Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2018, 03:37:52 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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A lot of debate here for what was supposed to be a 2-player draft  ;D

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2018, 04:00:48 PM »

Offline jambr380

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A lot of debate here for what was supposed to be a 2-player draft  ;D

I know you say that in jest, but Ainge was in a no-win situation with the 3rd pick in a two-player draft. There were always six players that were going to go 3-8. Even if you want to say Hield, Murray, and Brown are on the same tier, with Kris Dunn below them, and Bender/Chriss in 'bust' 'territory - we should be happy that Ainge chose one of the three players who is actually good.

It was an impossible situation for Ainge and he still came away a winner. And with how our roster is compiled, Brown probably is the best fit with his two-way game and ability to switch everything.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2018, 04:02:55 PM »

Offline Moranis

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.

Simmons right now is a better rebounder, passer, and ball handler than Brown will ever be.

I absolutely agree.

Quote
And while Brown is a better defender, Simmons is a very good defender whose size gives him incredible advantages that Brown will never have defensively.


What does it matter if Simmons has more size, if he doesn't use it to his advantage? Like you said, Brown is the better defender.

Quote
Simmons is a bad shooter, but he still puts the ball in the hole at a pretty good percentage.

That's not as much as an accomplishment as it sounds. Simmons only takes very high percentage shots. Gobert, Adams and Capela also finish at a high rate at the rim. Simmons simply refuses to shoot outside the paint.

Quote
This idea that because he is a bad shooter he is one dimensional is quite frankly nonsense.
 

Correct. I didn't phrase this correctly. What I meant is that he is a ''It's what you see is what you get'' type of player. To me he's still exactly the same player as he was in college. 

Quote
This idea that because he is a bad shooter now, he won't get better at it, is also nonsense.
 

We simply don't know. He isn't showing any improvement or willingness to change his shot so far.

Quote
Simmons is a much better player than Brown and will be for a decade barring injury.

You could be right. But during the playoffs Brown was the one who was much better.

When the competition gets tougher and the team gets better the more I lean to rather having Brown on my side.

I feel that Simmons is a master in destroying weak opposition, but unable to adjust against strong teams.
His FT% is up over 4%.  He also bumped his shooting percentage from 3 to 10 feet by nearly 4%.  There is some improvement.
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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2018, 05:45:13 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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I read an article a couple of weeks ago about Hield's pre-NBA obssessive work ethic and magnetic personality. One of Danny's primary focuses for a prospect is work ethic, which would've made Hield a seamless addition to the team.

Brown's sheer talent (in addition to his own work ethic and defensive potential) must have aced the pre-draft process for him because Hield would have been a perfect fit on this team. Brown's offensive and defensive potential is still too tantalizing though. He has elite athleticism, has proven to be an above average 3PT shooter (39.5 3FG% in his sophomore year!), above average defensively, and a consistent top 3 performer on an ECFist as a sophmore/20 y/o. He's progressed faster than anyone's projections and his offensive regression this season is an outlier.

Off topic: I understand the fit/personality arguments, but Simmons is regarded as one of the most valuable (ability+age(potential)+contract+perception) players in the NBA at this moment. Hypothetically, if the Pelicans were to put AD on the block and the Sixers offered Simmons straight up, NO would have to seriously consider it. There's not too many players that you can say that about.

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2018, 06:16:28 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Off topic: I understand the fit/personality arguments, but Simmons is regarded as one of the most valuable (ability+age(potential)+contract+perception) players in the NBA at this moment. Hypothetically, if the Pelicans were to put AD on the block and the Sixers offered Simmons straight up, NO would have to seriously consider it. There's not too many players that you can say that about.

Yes, Simmons trade value is very high. His reputation is bigger than his actual level of play on the court. Even Philadelphia fans acknowledge that Simmons isn't a star player yet, he's actually 4th best on his team (behind Embiid, Butler and Redick).

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2018, 06:59:21 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.
Simmons right now is a better rebounder, passer, and ball handler than Brown will ever be.  And while Brown is a better defender, Simmons is a very good defender whose size gives him incredible advantages that Brown will never have defensively.  Simmons is a bad shooter, but he still puts the ball in the hole at a pretty good percentage.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter he is one dimensional is quite frankly nonsense.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter now, he won't get better at it, is also nonsense.  Simmons is a much better player than Brown and will be for a decade barring injury.

Your habit of calling other poster’s opinions “nonsense” with as great frequency as you certainly does not elevate the discussion of the forum. I’m not saying I never do it myself, but this pretty consistent. I very strongly disagree with a lot of your opinions on Simmons and some other topics, but I don’t do myself or the board any favors if I just always call your opinions “nonsense.”
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 07:05:04 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2018, 07:16:38 PM »

Offline Big333223

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In 31.2 min, Hield is averaging 18.4 Pts (47.3% FG) 5.5 RB 2.7 assist
In 28.1 min, brown is averaging 11.1 pts (39.8%) 4.1 rb 1.3 assist

no way, Brown is playoff proven, Hield just proved he can play decent regular season games, and that's probably his peak. I'd take Murray over Hield any day of the week. In that draft only one player is clearly better than Brown, that's Ben Simmons. Murray, Ingram, Brown are on the same level.

I'm not even sure I would draft Simmons. He's a very one-dimensional player and if he isn't going to try to shoot he will basically stay the player he is right now. Brown is much more versatile and might have a higher ceiling if he works hard.

After thinking about it, for the Celtics I would only rather have Simmons for the reason that he's a bigger trade chip.

Ps: about that draft, don't sleep on Sabonis, Siakam and Brogdon who you didn't mention.
Simmons right now is a better rebounder, passer, and ball handler than Brown will ever be.  And while Brown is a better defender, Simmons is a very good defender whose size gives him incredible advantages that Brown will never have defensively.  Simmons is a bad shooter, but he still puts the ball in the hole at a pretty good percentage.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter he is one dimensional is quite frankly nonsense.  This idea that because he is a bad shooter now, he won't get better at it, is also nonsense.  Simmons is a much better player than Brown and will be for a decade barring injury.

Your habit of calling other poster’s opinions “nonsense” with as great frequency as you certainly does not elevate the discussion of the forum. I’m not saying I never do it myself, but this pretty consistent. I very strongly disagree with a lot of your opinions on Simmons and some other topics, but I don’t do myself or the board any favors if I just always call your opinions “nonsense.”

To be fair, at least in this instance, calling a player as versatile as Ben Simmons one dimensional is kind of nonsense.
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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2018, 10:19:16 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: Should we have drafted buddy hield instead of brown?
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2018, 02:23:24 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Now that Lebron is with the Lakers, Cavs fans are turning into Sixers fans ****.

We have Brown, and I for one am glad we have him instead of Hield.