Jackie Mac on Hayward

[SHAQATTACK]

sStop play n Rozier period ...give Gordon the minutes

Then Stevens needs to put on sum big boy britches and have a heart to heart

Get in Haywards face , man up son , and play ball like you mean it.

[tstorey_97]

The only person with the answer here is Hayward.

He gets it going once in awhile and then he makes what? Eight shot attempts over the course of three games?

It is a team.

It is not a Hayward recovery group.

Each player wants to win and I'm sure they'd love it Hayward if could help them do just that.

Whilst the answer is found? Games must be won. I am not sure why he is still first player off the bench. Trying not to hurt his feelings is not for "the team" and that is all that matters now.

I am old and our "way" wasn't better, but, it was different. "When you are ready to bang it with all you have? You get minutes." Until then?

Next to Irving, he is the best shooter on the team. "If you aren't going to give us the great shooting talent you have? Somebody else plays."

If "worrying about feelings" doesn't work? Time to get on with winning games with players who give it all they have for the team.

[nickagneta]

I remember when my son broke his leg as a late teen. He broke it just below the growth plate so the healing would be a bit longer and he would need a full length leg cast. When they took his cast off he had lost possibly half the size in his calf and thigh. Just a few months of non-activity for athletes can cause significant atrophy.

[PhoSita]

But...if I disregard the fact that he's getting paid a max, I can see that he actually adds value on the court. That's how I've been watching him, he's clearly not going to play at what people think a "max" player should be this season, and he doesn't have that role either. He's basically playing the part of a role player but in that sense he's playing that role decently.

100%.

If you just watch him as a basketball player, it's obvious that he does a lot of things while he's out there to help the team win.


He's gotten a lot of comparisons this year to Evan Turner, but I think a more flattering comparison is Joe Ingles.

Hayward, at least for now, is a lot like Joe Ingles.  That's not what we hoped to get from him, but it's not so bad.

Granted, his shooting over the whole year hasn't been on the same level as Ingles, but in January and February Hayward's shooting was looking a lot better.  Just the last few games it's been terrible.

[PhoSita]

I remember when my son broke his leg as a late teen. He broke it just below the growth plate so the healing would be a bit longer and he would need a full length leg cast. When they took his cast off he had lost possibly half the size in his calf and thigh. Just a few months of non-activity for athletes can cause significant atrophy.

And importantly, the atrophy isn't necessarily going to be just in the area that's injured. 

Crazy to think, but a person's entire body is connected by various systems, and an injury to one part can have lots of subtle and not-so-subtle effects on other parts of the body.

Anatomy!  Super fun.


And that's not even touching on the fact that a super traumatic physical injury very frequently comes with a whole suite of psychological complications, from actual PTSD to depression.


The people who dismiss Hayward's injury and ridicule him for not being all the way back yet are, in a word, ignorant.  Either because they're not aware that recovery from major injuries is complicated, or because they choose to be ignorant.

[nickagneta]

I remember when my son broke his leg as a late teen. He broke it just below the growth plate so the healing would be a bit longer and he would need a full length leg cast. When they took his cast off he had lost possibly half the size in his calf and thigh. Just a few months of non-activity for athletes can cause significant atrophy.

And importantly, the atrophy isn't necessarily going to be just in the area that's injured. 

Crazy to think, but a person's entire body is connected by various systems, and an injury to one part can have lots of subtle and not-so-subtle effects on other parts of the body.

Anatomy!  Super fun.


And that's not even touching on the fact that a super traumatic physical injury very frequently comes with a whole suite of psychological complications, from actual PTSD to depression.


The people who dismiss Hayward's injury and ridicule him for not being all the way back yet are, in a word, ignorant.  Either because they're not aware that recovery from major injuries is complicated, or because they choose to be ignorant.

Yeah my son was and still is at 30 in tremendous shape. He stopped going to the gym when he broke it and when the cast came off he stood there and I realized even his upper body was smaller because he hadn't lifted any weights for so long.

Atrophy for an ultra athlete like Hayward, in the lower back area, after not doing sprints and long runs and weightlifting for months, would be fairly significant.

[gpap]

Unless Tatum is traded this summer, I feel both the Celtics and Hayward would be better off going their separate ways.

Having both Hayward and Tatum is redundant and Tatum is the more talented player.

It makes no sense having both guys on the team because both guys are starting caliber small forwards.

Now again, if Tatum is dealt this summer, then Hayward reclaims his starting role.

[ozgod]

Unless Tatum is traded this summer, I feel both the Celtics and Hayward would be better off going their separate ways.

Having both Hayward and Tatum is redundant and Tatum is the more talented player.

It makes no sense having both guys on the team because both guys are starting caliber small forwards.

Now again, if Tatum is dealt this summer, then Hayward reclaims his starting role.

I'm not sure how we could move Hayward at this point. We would have to incentivize the taker with draft picks and would it be worth doing that just to get rid of him?

[nickagneta]

I remember when my son broke his leg as a late teen. He broke it just below the growth plate so the healing would be a bit longer and he would need a full length leg cast. When they took his cast off he had lost possibly half the size in his calf and thigh. Just a few months of non-activity for athletes can cause significant atrophy.

And importantly, the atrophy isn't necessarily going to be just in the area that's injured. 

Crazy to think, but a person's entire body is connected by various systems, and an injury to one part can have lots of subtle and not-so-subtle effects on other parts of the body.

Anatomy!  Super fun.


And that's not even touching on the fact that a super traumatic physical injury very frequently comes with a whole suite of psychological complications, from actual PTSD to depression.


The people who dismiss Hayward's injury and ridicule him for not being all the way back yet are, in a word, ignorant.  Either because they're not aware that recovery from major injuries is complicated, or because they choose to be ignorant.

Also, your right on about the psychological part of trauma. Twice I had traumatic injuries. Blew out three discs. Yeah the next decade of pain and not always being able to work at times was a tremendous psychological ordeal. Depression was awful.

And I cut off a finger and it took five surgeries including one taking a piece of my hip and placing it in my finger. It took like a year before my hand was working right. Brushing my hair and teeth and writing with my left hand was fun during that time.

[Chris22]

Hayward had the highest plus and minus on the team in Feb.

[RJ87]

Unless Tatum is traded this summer, I feel both the Celtics and Hayward would be better off going their separate ways.

Having both Hayward and Tatum is redundant and Tatum is the more talented player.

It makes no sense having both guys on the team because both guys are starting caliber small forwards.

Now again, if Tatum is dealt this summer, then Hayward reclaims his starting role.

I disagree with this completely. 1.) Their games are nothing alike. Quite frankly, I don't even know what Jayson's game is. Is he an ISO scorer? Because he's made no progress as a facilitator and he's not really a pure shooter.  2.) A healthy Hayward is a superior player. He's a secondary ballhandler, Swiss-army knife type of offensive player.

[Chris22]

Here is the problem since the all star break....three point shooting...

Morris: 8 for 38 (21%)
Kyrie: 15 for 30 (50%)
Brown: 6 for 24 (25%)
Horford: 5 for 22 (22.7%)
Smart: 10 for 21 (47.6%)
Rozier: 2 for 18 (11.1%)
Tatum: 4 for 17 (23.5%)
Hayward: 1 for 8 (12.5%)

[ozgod]

Here is the problem since the all star break....three point shooting...

Morris: 8 for 38 (21%)
Kyrie: 15 for 30 (50%)
Brown: 6 for 24 (25%)
Horford: 5 for 22 (22.7%)
Smart: 10 for 21 (47.6%)
Rozier: 2 for 18 (11.1%)
Tatum: 4 for 17 (23.5%)
Hayward: 1 for 8 (12.5%)

I'll raise you on that, here's the OPEN 3s stats (I posted this elsewhere but can't remember which thread):

Pre-All Star Break OPEN Threes


Post-All Star Break OPEN Threes


Some horrible post-All Star numbers there...Mook went from 40% to 7%, Rozier from 33% to 12%, Hayward from 24% to 0%, Tatum from 30% to 20%, Brown from 33% to 25%. These are open shots, too. Only Kyrie and Smart have improved.

[Silky]

I dont buy the atrophied muscles at all.

e broke his leg, not his back and neck, so I do not see any reason why he would have his back messed up from said atrophied muscles.

There were tonnes of videos o him shooting from chairs, in a cast etc.

Dude.  Please tell me you have a better understanding of how muscles work than this.

Well I guess it depends on your definaition of atrophy.

I am used to using that to describe severe conditions in which muscle litterally deteriorates due to things like coma, or paralysis etc.

If they are using it to state that he got a weaker cause he brokw his leg then ok. Making a mountain out of a molehill but technically correct

He broke his leg not fall into a coma.

My god, this is a cringe-worthy level of ignorant.

Muscle atrophy is "when muscles waste away. The main reason for muscle wasting is a lack of physical activity. This can happen when a disease or injury makes it difficult or impossible for you to move."
via https://www.healthline.com/symptom/muscle-wasting

Or it can be defined as "a decrease in the mass of the muscle; it can be a partial or complete wasting away of muscle, and is most commonly experienced when persons suffer temporary disabling circumstances such as being restricted in movement and/or confined to bed as when hospitalized."
via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_atrophy

You don't only get weaker because of a coma. He was clearly unable to exercise properly due to horrific injury.

Just because it doesn't fit your untrue "definition" of atrophied muscles doesn't mean it isn't true.

My definition of the term  is completely correct. And the report states it was his back that was atrophied. No reason for that at all. a broken foot will not effect working on your back.

[PhoSita]

My definition of the term  is completely correct. And the report states it was his back that was atrophied. No reason for that at all. a broken foot will not effect working on your back.

You're wrong.