“Reboot scenario” floated by Bill Simmons

[celticsclay]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Edit: Jesus christ, you misrepresented the usg% too Curry also actually has a higher usg%. What the heck man? 

[RJ87]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Also worth noting that Kyrie has a higher assist rate with a lower usage rate.

[fairweatherfan]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

[celticsclay]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

So I am understanding this correctly? It is completely inaccurate to say that Curry has a higher ast% than Irving?

[Big333223]

I never said other players don't slump, I said Irving doesn't make up for it in other ways. This is pretty clearly reflected in Boston's record.  And frankly, I'm getting pretty f-in tired of people constantly misquoting me and pretending I'm saying things I'm not saying.  You'd think a fellow mod would be better about that, but alas you are offen the biggest culprit.

If you feel like this keeps happening, you might consider the idea that you're not communicating what you want as well as you think you are.

In fairness to Moranis, people attributing arguments to others happens quite a bit, regardless of how clear you are. It’s almost the standard practice in our political discourse these days.

It's also very difficult to clarify your position in written form.  A real conversation gives us instant feedback that we can't get through the internet.  Sometimes one point or aspect of an argument gets turned into a blanket statement by other posters.  I wont name names but someone recently PM'ed me about my position on the "toxic" comments by Jaylen Brown.  I was told that I was trying to twist his comments in order to fit my "awful" narrative.  It caught me off guard because I was simply implying that the word "toxic" can be related to more than just losing.  I was attempting to suggest that there could be an awkward vibe in the locker room, and that Kyrie's most recent media comments weren't helping the situation.  I never intended to place blame on a single player, or suggest that the locker room was beyond repair.

Exactly. A lot of us take for granted that what we're saying is totally clear when it can be taken in different ways. I bring it up because I've caught myself not being as clear in my writing as I could be a few times and I'm trying to be better about it.

As for Moranis, there have been a number of times I've seen him do, what seems to be, a complete about face on an initial claim once someone challenges him on it and then act like he never said what he said (at least, in my interpretation of what he said). Perhaps this is because his initial claim wasn't as clear as he thought it was? I think this is the more charitable explanation, fwiw.

[The Oracle]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

So I am understanding this correctly? It is completely inaccurate to say that Curry has a higher ast% than Irving?

It is inaccurate to say so.  Although as with many statistics people do not fully understand them and completely misuse them.  Assist % is not a stat that should be used to say 1 player is better than another as it is completely dependent on your teammates ability to also create scoring opportunities for other teammates.  Curry is always on the floor with other players who are good at setting up and finding others.  With the C's Irving does not play with near as many teammates that create for others very well, half the team are ball stoppers who are not skilled at setting up others.  Assist % is the % of teammate FG that a player assisted while he was on the floor.  In truth it is a fairly useless statistic as is the case with many others.

[nickagneta]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

Not only are their per36 stats similar but their advanced stats are almost exact, in some cases.

PER
Steph 25.0
Kyrie 24.5

REB%
Steph 8.1
Kyrie 7.9

VORP
Steph 3.8
Kyrie 3.8

Win Shares
Steph 7.7
Kyrie 7.7

WS/48
Steph .204
Kyrie .209

BPM
Steph 6.3
Kyrie 6.6

TO%
Steph 11.5
Kyrie 11.9


When looking at the stats, Kyrie is playing as well as Curry has this season. Difference between them is their 3PTAr

Steph...0.597. So 60% of all Steph's shots are threes.
Kyrie...0.336. So one third of all Kyrie's shots are threes.

And some think Kyrie shoots to many threes. Fans would riot if Kyrie took a three point shot 3 out of every 5 shots.

[celticsclay]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

Not only are their per36 stats similar but their advanced stats are almost exact, in some cases.

PER
Steph 25.0
Kyrie 24.5

REB%
Steph 8.1
Kyrie 7.9

VORP
Steph 3.8
Kyrie 3.8

Win Shares
Steph 7.7
Kyrie 7.7

WS/48
Steph .204
Kyrie .209

BPM
Steph 6.3
Kyrie 6.6

TO%
Steph 11.5
Kyrie 11.9


When looking at the stats, Kyrie is playing as well as Curry has this season. Difference between them is their 3PTAr

Steph...0.597. So 60% of all Steph's shots are threes.
Kyrie...0.336. So one third of all Kyrie's shots are threes.

And some think Kyrie shoots to many threes. Fans would riot if Kyrie took a three point shot 3 out of every 5 shots.

Nick thank you for actually posting this. We can all see where these are coming from and what they are. This makes for a lot better discussion than just claiming someone has better stats (especially when it is not even accurate). Tp for you

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

So I am understanding this correctly? It is completely inaccurate to say that Curry has a higher ast% than Irving?

It is inaccurate to say so.  Although as with many statistics people do not fully understand them and completely misuse them.  Assist % is not a stat that should be used to say 1 player is better than another as it is completely dependent on your teammates ability to also create scoring opportunities for other teammates.  Curry is always on the floor with other players who are good at setting up and finding others.  With the C's Irving does not play with near as many teammates that create for others very well, half the team are ball stoppers who are not skilled at setting up others.  Assist % is the % of teammate FG that a player assisted while he was on the floor.  In truth it is a fairly useless statistic as is the case with many others.

Maybe I misunderstand you, or maybe you misunderstand the stat. I think it's the other way around.

Other players on GSW can create shots for themselves when Curry is on the court. Therefore, they do not rely on him to create for them. Thus the 24% assist percentage.

Irving is opposite. The Celtic's made shots are assisted roughly 36% of the time by Irving when he is on the court. Thus they rely on him more.

The only thing that assist% indicates about the two players is that the Celtics are much more reliant on Irving setting them up than the Warriors are on Curry (at least directly -- Curry's gravitational pull "assists" buckets for the Warriors, but that's not easy to quantify).

Given that Irving's usage percentage is under 30, his turnover percentage is ridiculously low for a player of his assist numbers, and given how efficient Irving is scoring the ball, you start to see how remarkable of an offensive player Irving really is.

Curry also averages .9 secondary assists and averages 9.2 potential assists a game, while Irving averages 1 secondary assist and 11.6 potential assists a game. From this we can see that Irving's assist numbers and assist% numbers could be much higher if more efficient shooters surrounded him.

[The Oracle]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

So I am understanding this correctly? It is completely inaccurate to say that Curry has a higher ast% than Irving?

It is inaccurate to say so.  Although as with many statistics people do not fully understand them and completely misuse them.  Assist % is not a stat that should be used to say 1 player is better than another as it is completely dependent on your teammates ability to also create scoring opportunities for other teammates.  Curry is always on the floor with other players who are good at setting up and finding others.  With the C's Irving does not play with near as many teammates that create for others very well, half the team are ball stoppers who are not skilled at setting up others.  Assist % is the % of teammate FG that a player assisted while he was on the floor.  In truth it is a fairly useless statistic as is the case with many others.

Maybe I misunderstand you, or maybe you misunderstand the stat. I think it's the other way around.

Other players on GSW can create shots for themselves when Curry is on the court. Therefore, they do not rely on him to create for them. Thus the 24% assist percentage.

Irving is opposite. The Celtic's made shots are assisted roughly 36% of the time by Irving when he is on the court. Thus they rely on him more.

The only thing that assist% indicates about the two players is that the Celtics are much more reliant on Irving setting them up than the Warriors are on Curry (at least directly -- Curry's gravitational pull "assists" buckets for the Warriors, but that's not easy to quantify).

Given that Irving's usage percentage is under 30, his turnover percentage is ridiculously low for a player of his assist numbers, and given how efficient Irving is scoring the ball, you start to see how remarkable of an offensive player Irving really is.

Curry also averages .9 secondary assists and averages 9.2 potential assists a game, while Irving averages 1 secondary assist and 11.6 potential assists a game. From this we can see that Irving's assist numbers and assist% numbers could be much higher if more efficient shooters surrounded him.

Curry's assist % is deflated much more than Irving's do to many factors.  Without digging through a million stats I will just guess that his teammates are better at scoring unassisted and are better at assisting other teammates leaving Curry with less responsibility for his teammates to score.  If Curry was playing for the C's in Irving's place his assist % would likely be much higher.

[RJ87]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

So I am understanding this correctly? It is completely inaccurate to say that Curry has a higher ast% than Irving?

It is inaccurate to say so.  Although as with many statistics people do not fully understand them and completely misuse them.  Assist % is not a stat that should be used to say 1 player is better than another as it is completely dependent on your teammates ability to also create scoring opportunities for other teammates.  Curry is always on the floor with other players who are good at setting up and finding others.  With the C's Irving does not play with near as many teammates that create for others very well, half the team are ball stoppers who are not skilled at setting up others.  Assist % is the % of teammate FG that a player assisted while he was on the floor.  In truth it is a fairly useless statistic as is the case with many others.

Maybe I misunderstand you, or maybe you misunderstand the stat. I think it's the other way around.

Other players on GSW can create shots for themselves when Curry is on the court. Therefore, they do not rely on him to create for them. Thus the 24% assist percentage.

Irving is opposite. The Celtic's made shots are assisted roughly 36% of the time by Irving when he is on the court. Thus they rely on him more.

The only thing that assist% indicates about the two players is that the Celtics are much more reliant on Irving setting them up than the Warriors are on Curry (at least directly -- Curry's gravitational pull "assists" buckets for the Warriors, but that's not easy to quantify).

Given that Irving's usage percentage is under 30, his turnover percentage is ridiculously low for a player of his assist numbers, and given how efficient Irving is scoring the ball, you start to see how remarkable of an offensive player Irving really is.

Curry also averages .9 secondary assists and averages 9.2 potential assists a game, while Irving averages 1 secondary assist and 11.6 potential assists a game. From this we can see that Irving's assist numbers and assist% numbers could be much higher if more efficient shooters surrounded him.

Curry's assist % is deflated much more than Irving's do to many factors.  Without digging through a million stats I will just guess that his teammates are better at scoring unassisted and are better at assisting other teammates leaving Curry with less responsibility for his teammates to score.  If Curry was playing for the C's in Irving's place his assist % would likely be much higher.

Eh. This doesn't really hold up though when you look at the drop off from last season. Last year, his assist rate was 30.3%. Year before that (which was Durant's first year in GSW) it was 31.2%. Golden State's personnel hasn't changed all that much, if anything guys like Draymond and Iggy have seen a bit of a decline in their games.

[celticsclay]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

So I am understanding this correctly? It is completely inaccurate to say that Curry has a higher ast% than Irving?

It is inaccurate to say so.  Although as with many statistics people do not fully understand them and completely misuse them.  Assist % is not a stat that should be used to say 1 player is better than another as it is completely dependent on your teammates ability to also create scoring opportunities for other teammates.  Curry is always on the floor with other players who are good at setting up and finding others.  With the C's Irving does not play with near as many teammates that create for others very well, half the team are ball stoppers who are not skilled at setting up others.  Assist % is the % of teammate FG that a player assisted while he was on the floor.  In truth it is a fairly useless statistic as is the case with many others.

Maybe I misunderstand you, or maybe you misunderstand the stat. I think it's the other way around.

Other players on GSW can create shots for themselves when Curry is on the court. Therefore, they do not rely on him to create for them. Thus the 24% assist percentage.

Irving is opposite. The Celtic's made shots are assisted roughly 36% of the time by Irving when he is on the court. Thus they rely on him more.

The only thing that assist% indicates about the two players is that the Celtics are much more reliant on Irving setting them up than the Warriors are on Curry (at least directly -- Curry's gravitational pull "assists" buckets for the Warriors, but that's not easy to quantify).

Given that Irving's usage percentage is under 30, his turnover percentage is ridiculously low for a player of his assist numbers, and given how efficient Irving is scoring the ball, you start to see how remarkable of an offensive player Irving really is.

Curry also averages .9 secondary assists and averages 9.2 potential assists a game, while Irving averages 1 secondary assist and 11.6 potential assists a game. From this we can see that Irving's assist numbers and assist% numbers could be much higher if more efficient shooters surrounded him.

Curry's assist % is deflated much more than Irving's do to many factors.  Without digging through a million stats I will just guess that his teammates are better at scoring unassisted and are better at assisting other teammates leaving Curry with less responsibility for his teammates to score.  If Curry was playing for the C's in Irving's place his assist % would likely be much higher.

Eh. This doesn't really hold up though when you look at the drop off from last season. Last year, his assist rate was 30.3%. Year before that (which was Durant's first year in GSW) it was 31.2%. Golden State's personnel hasn't changed all that much, if anything guys like Draymond and Iggy have seen a bit of a decline in their games.

Yea Iggy is a complete shell of himself now. They still owe him 17 million next year. Probably would hope for a bit more than 20 minutes 6,4 and 3 for that much money.

[mbsnmisc]

Also I am looking at basketball reference

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#all_advanced

It looks like 35% assist rate for Irving this season and 24% for Curry. Is this was you were referencing? Am I misunderstanding this stat or does Irving actually have a higher ast% in direct contradiction to what you claimed? It is geniunely possible i am misunderstanding this cause it is not something I look at a ton. But if Irving is actually at a much higher % than curry for ast% and you just lied to the whole board I am gonna be pretty angry and disappointed with that.

Here's a direct comparison for this season. Pretty remarkable how similar their per36 profiles are in a lot of areas, with some obvious exceptions like 2/3 pt fga and assist%.  Wouldn't have guessed Curry had more MPG than Kyrie.

Not only are their per36 stats similar but their advanced stats are almost exact, in some cases.

PER
Steph 25.0
Kyrie 24.5

REB%
Steph 8.1
Kyrie 7.9

VORP
Steph 3.8
Kyrie 3.8

Win Shares
Steph 7.7
Kyrie 7.7

WS/48
Steph .204
Kyrie .209

BPM
Steph 6.3
Kyrie 6.6

TO%
Steph 11.5
Kyrie 11.9


When looking at the stats, Kyrie is playing as well as Curry has this season. Difference between them is their 3PTAr

Steph...0.597. So 60% of all Steph's shots are threes.
Kyrie...0.336. So one third of all Kyrie's shots are threes.

And some think Kyrie shoots to many threes. Fans would riot if Kyrie took a three point shot 3 out of every 5 shots.

I would love for KI to shoot three or four more threes a game as long as they came in the flow and were "good" shots. It is of course, more efficient, but it also saves wear and tear on his body and keeps the floor more balanced for transition defense. I don't think Kyrie will ever approach 60%, (Steph's release is on a different level), but 50% is attainable.