Unnamed Warrior: Hayward a “liability on both sides of the court”

[celticinorlando]

Tend to think it is all mental at this point. Hayward is struggling getting over that aspect of it. He literally looks spooked out there some games.

[RockinRyA]

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

Until he has a full off-season to rebuild his strength and conditioning I won't consider him to have gone through the necessary recovery time.


Also, I think referencing the annual value of his contract is a total non-sequitor here.

A player doesn't become better at recovering from injuries by virtue of his contract value.


I think most people understood that paying a max to Hayward was a necessary overpay in order to sign him in free agency.

Utah Hayward was worth between $20-25 million per year, in my opinion.


The contract value is what it is so there's no sense in worrying about it now.  The question is how much value can Hayward provide the Celts in the present and in the future.

We can worry about how much $$ he's worth when he's a free agent again.

Some are just not thinking at all. Its as if its Hayward's fault he isn't at his best. Dude worked hard to get back on the court, try to do little things to help the team even without scoring, enduring heartless comments and attacks from fans like above. If there is someone more frustrated than we are, its Hayward.

[hpantazo]

Tend to think it is all mental at this point. Hayward is struggling getting over that aspect of it. He literally looks spooked out there some games.

Part of it is mental, part of it is he doesn’t have that lift back off his left ankle. Both will take time.

[celticinorlando]

With Kyrie out tonight looks like Hayward is going to have to contribute. Bench is going to be even weaker now.

[ozgod]

I have a deep-lying opinion about all the Hayward bashing. It's a rather ugly thought that I will keep to myself.

We're a brave lot...we've given Gordan Hayward almost a whole half of a season to get back to his former self, after breaking his foot in-half last year. Knowing that each serious injury is an entity of its own. No two are alike. While Paull George got a pass his entire first year back because he wasn't on our team?

Okay okay, Gordan hasn't exactly been anywhere near his former self. Is that reason for some on this site to call him some truly horrible names? The kid isn't staying out of the line-up for some fake injury as some did. He didn't want to get injured for god sake.

I understand...I understand that we have a bunch of Keyboard tough guys permeating through our society in general. The keyboard is their vehicle to deliver their poison without actually being looked in the eye and being shamed.

I guess, there is no reason for them to skip past this site...   

I think the nastiness and vitriol comes out of frustration and the fact that he's on a $30m contract and people imagine how much better he could be (and should be, for the money). Still no excuse for aspersions on a player's character I agree. Criticize the performance but not the character.

[Silky]

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

Until he has a full off-season to rebuild his strength and conditioning I won't consider him to have gone through the necessary recovery time.


Also, I think referencing the annual value of his contract is a total non-sequitor here.

A player doesn't become better at recovering from injuries by virtue of his contract value.


I think most people understood that paying a max to Hayward was a necessary overpay in order to sign him in free agency.

Utah Hayward was worth between $20-25 million per year, in my opinion.


The contract value is what it is so there's no sense in worrying about it now.  The question is how much value can Hayward provide the Celts in the present and in the future.

We can worry about how much $$ he's worth when he's a free agent again.

Some are just not thinking at all. Its as if its Hayward's fault he isn't at his best. Dude worked hard to get back on the court, try to do little things to help the team even without scoring, enduring heartless comments and attacks from fans like above. If there is someone more frustrated than we are, its Hayward.

What a cop out.

Something isnt right. He has had more than enough time to look better than he does ....no is stating 100% but dude isnt even 75%.

And he looks mentally broken.

nd he looks like a terrible fit and anyone objectively looking at the situation would agree that Hayward is a problem beyond his poor play.

[RJ87]

I have a deep-lying opinion about all the Hayward bashing. It's a rather ugly thought that I will keep to myself.

We're a brave lot...we've given Gordan Hayward almost a whole half of a season to get back to his former self, after breaking his foot in-half last year. Knowing that each serious injury is an entity of its own. No two are alike. While Paull George got a pass his entire first year back because he wasn't on our team?

Okay okay, Gordan hasn't exactly been anywhere near his former self. Is that reason for some on this site to call him some truly horrible names? The kid isn't staying out of the line-up for some fake injury as some did. He didn't want to get injured for god sake.

I understand...I understand that we have a bunch of Keyboard tough guys permeating through our society in general. The keyboard is their vehicle to deliver their poison without actually being looked in the eye and being shamed.

I guess, there is no reason for them to skip past this site...   

I think the nastiness and vitriol comes out of frustration and the fact that he's on a $30m contract and people imagine how much better he could be (and should be, for the money). Still no excuse for aspersions on a player's character I agree. Criticize the performance but not the character.

I look forward to when Gordon is back to his old self at some point and requests a trade... Then it's going to be "...but why? We the bestest fans."

[GreenEnvy]

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

Until he has a full off-season to rebuild his strength and conditioning I won't consider him to have gone through the necessary recovery time.


Also, I think referencing the annual value of his contract is a total non-sequitor here.

A player doesn't become better at recovering from injuries by virtue of his contract value.


I think most people understood that paying a max to Hayward was a necessary overpay in order to sign him in free agency.

Utah Hayward was worth between $20-25 million per year, in my opinion.


The contract value is what it is so there's no sense in worrying about it now.  The question is how much value can Hayward provide the Celts in the present and in the future.

We can worry about how much $$ he's worth when he's a free agent again.

Some are just not thinking at all. Its as if its Hayward's fault he isn't at his best. Dude worked hard to get back on the court, try to do little things to help the team even without scoring, enduring heartless comments and attacks from fans like above. If there is someone more frustrated than we are, its Hayward.

What a cop out.

Something isnt right. He has had more than enough time to look better than he does ....no is stating 100% but dude isnt even 75%.

And he looks mentally broken.

nd he looks like a terrible fit and anyone objectively looking at the situation would agree that Hayward is a problem beyond his poor play.

You’re coming off as very biased.

He’s a well-rounded player, so I don’t see how/why he’s a bad fit other than everyone around Rozier/Brown/Tatum is a bad fit (besides Horford and Baynes). Those guys are selfish and force too much.

He looks pretty good when putting up 30+ and nearing triple doubles, but he can’t play here?

He’s not THE problem, he’s A problem. There’s no set timetable that you can say when he should be whatever percentage you want.

It’s really not a career-ending injury. No reason to believe he won’t come back fully. It just may be longer than some of us expected.

[gouki88]

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

Until he has a full off-season to rebuild his strength and conditioning I won't consider him to have gone through the necessary recovery time.


Also, I think referencing the annual value of his contract is a total non-sequitor here.

A player doesn't become better at recovering from injuries by virtue of his contract value.


I think most people understood that paying a max to Hayward was a necessary overpay in order to sign him in free agency.

Utah Hayward was worth between $20-25 million per year, in my opinion.


The contract value is what it is so there's no sense in worrying about it now.  The question is how much value can Hayward provide the Celts in the present and in the future.

We can worry about how much $$ he's worth when he's a free agent again.

Some are just not thinking at all. Its as if its Hayward's fault he isn't at his best. Dude worked hard to get back on the court, try to do little things to help the team even without scoring, enduring heartless comments and attacks from fans like above. If there is someone more frustrated than we are, its Hayward.

What a cop out.

Something isnt right. He has had more than enough time to look better than he does ....no is stating 100% but dude isnt even 75%.

And he looks mentally broken.

nd he looks like a terrible fit and anyone objectively looking at the situation would agree that Hayward is a problem beyond his poor play.

You’re coming off as very biased.

He’s a well-rounded player, so I don’t see how/why he’s a bad fit other than everyone around Rozier/Brown/Tatum is a bad fit (besides Horford and Baynes). Those guys are selfish and force too much.

He looks pretty good when putting up 30+ and nearing triple doubles, but he can’t play here?

He’s not THE problem, he’s A problem. There’s no set timetable that you can say when he should be whatever percentage you want.

It’s really not a career-ending injury. No reason to believe he won’t come back fully. It just may be longer than some of us expected.

Very biased. I especially liked the dismissal of points that disagree with him as a 'cop out'

[petbrick]

I have a deep-lying opinion about all the Hayward bashing. It's a rather ugly thought that I will keep to myself.

We're a brave lot...we've given Gordan Hayward almost a whole half of a season to get back to his former self, after breaking his foot in-half last year. Knowing that each serious injury is an entity of its own. No two are alike. While Paull George got a pass his entire first year back because he wasn't on our team?

Okay okay, Gordan hasn't exactly been anywhere near his former self. Is that reason for some on this site to call him some truly horrible names? The kid isn't staying out of the line-up for some fake injury as some did. He didn't want to get injured for god sake.

I understand...I understand that we have a bunch of Keyboard tough guys permeating through our society in general. The keyboard is their vehicle to deliver their poison without actually being looked in the eye and being shamed.

I guess, there is no reason for them to skip past this site...   

I think the nastiness and vitriol comes out of frustration and the fact that he's on a $30m contract and people imagine how much better he could be (and should be, for the money). Still no excuse for aspersions on a player's character I agree. Criticize the performance but not the character.

Yeah. While it's fair to say that Hayward is playing the worst basketball he's played since he's been drafted. He's not quite as awful as Evan Turner was in Turner's last year with the Celtics, but he's much closer to that than he should be for a max contract, regardless of his contract's dollar value (i.e. in terms of the cap space used to sign him) -- but I don't think that's where the nastiness comes from.

Presumably the frustration comes from the fact that it appeared that he was shown some serious favouritism by Stevens to start the season, and the leash was significantly longer for him than it perhaps aught to have been, considering the team nearly made the Finals without him last year and that, unlike Irving, he hasn't come back to play at his expected level yet.
 
That's not an entirely accurate assessment, but it feels right to some people. I doubt there would be as much anger if, say, Jaylen Brown wasn't having a regressive season at the same time, or if we hadn't struggled out of the gate and at various times over the season. If Hayward was playing like Utah Hayward, I'd hope most people would be elated. The fact that he hasn't hit that level consistently yet is regretful, but obviously everyone who roots for the team feels the same way, and almost certainly no one feels that way more than Hayward.

[Scintan]

Yes, he's a liability on both ends of the court.  Yes, the team has to know this.  Yes, that begs the question of why they've been giving him all these minutes, to the obvious detriment to the team's chemistry.  No, I don't think it's likely to change any time soon.

I'm not a fan of force feeding minutes to a guy when it's not needed or merited.  The Celtics, however, seem to have liked that approach with Hayward from the start.

[celtics4ever33]

He's become a scrub and bum

Maybe Karma for Danny Ainge with the whole IT thing

[SparzWizard]

Wow I was actually right with the "$35M/year Gordon Hayward 2 ppg"

Literally 2 points in 20 minutes tonight, 1 for 6 shooting...without Kyrie on the floor.

[celticinorlando]

Wow I was actually right with the "$35M/year Gordon Hayward 2 ppg"

Literally 2 points in 20 minutes tonight, 1 for 6 shooting...without Kyrie on the floor.

15 mill a point...two games in a row

[Jiri Welsch]

Yes, he's a liability on both ends of the court.  Yes, the team has to know this.  Yes, that begs the question of why they've been giving him all these minutes, to the obvious detriment to the team's chemistry.  No, I don't think it's likely to change any time soon.

I'm not a fan of force feeding minutes to a guy when it's not needed or merited.  The Celtics, however, seem to have liked that approach with Hayward from the start.

I think the mindset is that it can only get better. Considering his shooting percentages are low as well, it seems Hayward’s problems are largely mental.

It’s definitely frustrating though—even for the most patient of fans.