Who do the C’s cut?

[Neurotic Guy]

Gabriel is only 6' 9" and 205 lbs.  While Queta is a bit slight, his size and preseason play made Gabriel expendable.

I would like to see another big Embid and/or perhaps Giannis defender - but Tatum's increased minutes at PF will be an upgrade over Grant who was a sub par rebounder.

True but whoever has to play SF in place of Tatum, while he is playing PF, will be a downgrade.

It will essentially work like this:

Tatum > PF (Grant?)
Brown < Tatum at SF
Holiday < Brown at SG
White < Holiday at PG
Porzingis = Porzingis at C

Brown isn’t much of a downgrade from Tatum at SF. Tatum is a big upgrade over Horford at PF.  Al can play both the 4/5 off the bench. That’s an ideal situation. Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis is the best starting 5 in the NBA.

Brown is a pretty significant downgrade from Tatum.  They are a different class of player.  And Tatum has no business getting beaten on by bigger stronger players more frequently at PF. 

And that certainly isn't clear cut as the best starting 5 in the sport.  I'd probably take Denver (Murray, KCP, MPG, Gordon, Jokic) and Milwaukee (Lillard, Beasley, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez) over that.  You could make a case for GS especially with a small Boston lineup (Paul, Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Dray), Phoenix (Beal, Booker, Okogie, Durant, Nurkic), and even Philly with an engaged Harden (Maxey, Harden, Harris, Tucker, Embiid), though Harden being engaged seems unlikely at this point.

My guess, if you were inclined to do so, is that you could make a case for Boston.

[smokeablount]

Gabriel is only 6' 9" and 205 lbs.  While Queta is a bit slight, his size and preseason play made Gabriel expendable.

I would like to see another big Embid and/or perhaps Giannis defender - but Tatum's increased minutes at PF will be an upgrade over Grant who was a sub par rebounder.

True but whoever has to play SF in place of Tatum, while he is playing PF, will be a downgrade.

It will essentially work like this:

Tatum > PF (Grant?)
Brown < Tatum at SF
Holiday < Brown at SG
White < Holiday at PG
Porzingis = Porzingis at C

Brown isn’t much of a downgrade from Tatum at SF. Tatum is a big upgrade over Horford at PF.  Al can play both the 4/5 off the bench. That’s an ideal situation. Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis is the best starting 5 in the NBA.

Brown is a pretty significant downgrade from Tatum.  They are a different class of player.  And Tatum has no business getting beaten on by bigger stronger players more frequently at PF. 

And that certainly isn't clear cut as the best starting 5 in the sport.  I'd probably take Denver (Murray, KCP, MPG, Gordon, Jokic) and Milwaukee (Lillard, Beasley, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez) over that.  You could make a case for GS especially with a small Boston lineup (Paul, Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Dray), Phoenix (Beal, Booker, Okogie, Durant, Nurkic), and even Philly with an engaged Harden (Maxey, Harden, Harris, Tucker, Embiid), though Harden being engaged seems unlikely at this point.

My guess, if you were inclined to do so, is that you could make a case for Boston.

Moranis could make a compelling case that ice is warmer than fire.

[Moranis]

Gabriel is only 6' 9" and 205 lbs.  While Queta is a bit slight, his size and preseason play made Gabriel expendable.

I would like to see another big Embid and/or perhaps Giannis defender - but Tatum's increased minutes at PF will be an upgrade over Grant who was a sub par rebounder.

True but whoever has to play SF in place of Tatum, while he is playing PF, will be a downgrade.

It will essentially work like this:

Tatum > PF (Grant?)
Brown < Tatum at SF
Holiday < Brown at SG
White < Holiday at PG
Porzingis = Porzingis at C

Brown isn’t much of a downgrade from Tatum at SF. Tatum is a big upgrade over Horford at PF.  Al can play both the 4/5 off the bench. That’s an ideal situation. Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis is the best starting 5 in the NBA.

Brown is a pretty significant downgrade from Tatum.  They are a different class of player.  And Tatum has no business getting beaten on by bigger stronger players more frequently at PF. 

And that certainly isn't clear cut as the best starting 5 in the sport.  I'd probably take Denver (Murray, KCP, MPG, Gordon, Jokic) and Milwaukee (Lillard, Beasley, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez) over that.  You could make a case for GS especially with a small Boston lineup (Paul, Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Dray), Phoenix (Beal, Booker, Okogie, Durant, Nurkic), and even Philly with an engaged Harden (Maxey, Harden, Harris, Tucker, Embiid), though Harden being engaged seems unlikely at this point.

My guess, if you were inclined to do so, is that you could make a case for Boston.

I'd have Boston at 3rd, but it has Horford.  I think he is the better guy to start.  I do think Denver and Milwaukee have a better starting 5  either way.  With White, I think those other teams I identified have a better case as being better because Boston doesn't have the size advantage anymore.  Size matters.  Boston needs to go bigger more often.

[Goldstar88]

Gabriel is only 6' 9" and 205 lbs.  While Queta is a bit slight, his size and preseason play made Gabriel expendable.

I would like to see another big Embid and/or perhaps Giannis defender - but Tatum's increased minutes at PF will be an upgrade over Grant who was a sub par rebounder.

True but whoever has to play SF in place of Tatum, while he is playing PF, will be a downgrade.

It will essentially work like this:

Tatum > PF (Grant?)
Brown < Tatum at SF
Holiday < Brown at SG
White < Holiday at PG
Porzingis = Porzingis at C

Brown isn’t much of a downgrade from Tatum at SF. Tatum is a big upgrade over Horford at PF.  Al can play both the 4/5 off the bench. That’s an ideal situation. Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis is the best starting 5 in the NBA.

Brown is a pretty significant downgrade from Tatum.  They are a different class of player.  And Tatum has no business getting beaten on by bigger stronger players more frequently at PF. 

And that certainly isn't clear cut as the best starting 5 in the sport.  I'd probably take Denver (Murray, KCP, MPG, Gordon, Jokic) and Milwaukee (Lillard, Beasley, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez) over that.  You could make a case for GS especially with a small Boston lineup (Paul, Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Dray), Phoenix (Beal, Booker, Okogie, Durant, Nurkic), and even Philly with an engaged Harden (Maxey, Harden, Harris, Tucker, Embiid), though Harden being engaged seems unlikely at this point.

My guess, if you were inclined to do so, is that you could make a case for Boston.

I'd have Boston at 3rd, but it has Horford.  I think he is the better guy to start.  I do think Denver and Milwaukee have a better starting 5  either way.  With White, I think those other teams I identified have a better case as being better because Boston doesn't have the size advantage anymore.  Size matters.  Boston needs to go bigger more often.

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

[Jvalin]

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

Only in a Celtics forum.

Don't think Jrue is better than Murray either, but maybe that's just me cause I value offense over defense.

[Surferdad]

I would say that waiving Gabriel is going to be the only move for now.  They can see if anyone interesting becomes available.  Likely, they end up converting Stevens to a roster spot and going with who they have.  I am fine with that.  I am not that excited about what I have seen from Banton but I understand why they would keep him if nothing better is available.  And I don't mind Kornet, he is what he is, which is a useful end of the bench guy who knows the system and is fine with the role.

I am hoping to see more from Brissett, and think he probably will settle in.  Hauser and Pritchard had good preseasons in my view.  Still not sure on Stevens, but I did like what I saw.  Mykhailiuk seemed to play well enough to be a solid end of the bench guy.

I feel we still have a need for a PF/C who can be a 7th or 8th guy in the rotation but like the team to start the season.

With Horford off the bench, that’s really going to help the rotation. Hopefully one of Queta, Stevens, Brissett can turn into a Sam Hauser type role player.

Waiving Gabriel was the last move, IMO. I don't see a need to add a PF/C who can be 7th-8th guy.

Porzingis/Horford/Kornet/Queta is decent depth at center.

Tatum/Horford/Stevens is decent depth at PF.

[ozgod]

I would say that waiving Gabriel is going to be the only move for now.  They can see if anyone interesting becomes available.  Likely, they end up converting Stevens to a roster spot and going with who they have.  I am fine with that.  I am not that excited about what I have seen from Banton but I understand why they would keep him if nothing better is available.  And I don't mind Kornet, he is what he is, which is a useful end of the bench guy who knows the system and is fine with the role.

I am hoping to see more from Brissett, and think he probably will settle in.  Hauser and Pritchard had good preseasons in my view.  Still not sure on Stevens, but I did like what I saw.  Mykhailiuk seemed to play well enough to be a solid end of the bench guy.

I feel we still have a need for a PF/C who can be a 7th or 8th guy in the rotation but like the team to start the season.

With Horford off the bench, that’s really going to help the rotation. Hopefully one of Queta, Stevens, Brissett can turn into a Sam Hauser type role player.

Waiving Gabriel was the last move, IMO. I don't see a need to add a PF/C who can be 7th-8th guy.

Porzingis/Horford/Kornet/Queta is decent depth at center.

Tatum/Horford/Stevens is decent depth at PF.

It’s all about being realistic based on the cap. It’s designed so that teams (and fans) never feel comfortable with depth. If you have a top six like we do you just won’t be able to sign the Timelord type players to sit on the bench while the likes of KP and Al play ahead of him.

[SHAQATTACK]

Cut the Green Statue

[Muzzy66]

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

Only in a Celtics forum.

Don't think Jrue is better than Murray either, but maybe that's just me cause I value offense over defense.

I don't think it's as crazy as some may think. 

Personally I still put Giannis a tad above Tatum, but not by much...and that could easily change if Tatum improves further this year, which I expect he probably will. 

Giannis is a better defensive player, a better rebounder and a better playmaker - but aTatum is pretty good at all of those criteria himself.  Tatum is IMO the superior offensive player - Giannis has proven far too easy to circumvent by just forcing him to shoot jumpers or putting him at the line and daring him to beat you,and too many times in the playoffs I have seen him defer to 'Middleton and Jrue over the last 6 minutes or so of games becasue he just isn't great at getting his own shot in clutch situations.  His only real offensive play is to put his head down and charge head first though traffic  and hoepfully either score or draw a foul - but if he draws a foul he's horribly unreliable at the line, and if teams cut off his drive he's also horribly unreliable on jumpers. 

Tatum is still young  and can be a little inconsistent, but he doesnt really have a major weakness in his game that can be exploited easily the way Giannis' shooting can be.  Tatum can shoot from pretty much anywhere and score in such a multitude of ways that it's almost impossible to completely take him out of the game.  You kinda just have to hope he has a bad shooting night.  When Tatum is feeling hot, I think he's one of the few players in the league who is genuinely unguardable.  And he's a much  better clutch scorer then people give him credit for as well - he's had a lot of big 4th quarters, big performances in close out games, etc. 

As I said I do still put Giannis slightly abive Tatum, but its close.  If somebody were to consider them roughly equal I don't think that's entirely unreasonable.

[No Nickname]

Gabriel is only 6' 9" and 205 lbs.  While Queta is a bit slight, his size and preseason play made Gabriel expendable.

I would like to see another big Embid and/or perhaps Giannis defender - but Tatum's increased minutes at PF will be an upgrade over Grant who was a sub par rebounder.

Watching Queta highlights, he looks like a poor man's Robert Williams, without the ability to block jump shots... which was one of my favorite underrated aspects of Williams' game.

Otherwise, he cleans up offensive stickbacks, has the potential for rim-running (not there yet), and can defend at the rim. 

Is he comparable to Williams' rookie skillset?  Perhaps.  Could be a good investment here.

[Big333223]

Gabriel disappointed me this preseason. I was hoping for something from him but never got it.

With him gone, are we going to see the return of Blake?

[Vermont Green]

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

Only in a Celtics forum.

Don't think Jrue is better than Murray either, but maybe that's just me cause I value offense over defense.

I don't think it's as crazy as some may think. 

Personally I still put Giannis a tad above Tatum, but not by much...and that could easily change if Tatum improves further this year, which I expect he probably will. 

Giannis is a better defensive player, a better rebounder and a better playmaker - but aTatum is pretty good at all of those criteria himself.  Tatum is IMO the superior offensive player - Giannis has proven far too easy to circumvent by just forcing him to shoot jumpers or putting him at the line and daring him to beat you,and too many times in the playoffs I have seen him defer to 'Middleton and Jrue over the last 6 minutes or so of games becasue he just isn't great at getting his own shot in clutch situations.  His only real offensive play is to put his head down and charge head first though traffic  and hoepfully either score or draw a foul - but if he draws a foul he's horribly unreliable at the line, and if teams cut off his drive he's also horribly unreliable on jumpers. 

Tatum is still young  and can be a little inconsistent, but he doesnt really have a major weakness in his game that can be exploited easily the way Giannis' shooting can be.  Tatum can shoot from pretty much anywhere and score in such a multitude of ways that it's almost impossible to completely take him out of the game.  You kinda just have to hope he has a bad shooting night.  When Tatum is feeling hot, I think he's one of the few players in the league who is genuinely unguardable.  And he's a much  better clutch scorer then people give him credit for as well - he's had a lot of big 4th quarters, big performances in close out games, etc. 

As I said I do still put Giannis slightly abive Tatum, but its close.  If somebody were to consider them roughly equal I don't think that's entirely unreasonable.

Tatum at PF is not equal to Giannis just as Giannis at SF is not equal to Tatum. 

[Moranis]

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

Only in a Celtics forum.

Don't think Jrue is better than Murray either, but maybe that's just me cause I value offense over defense.

Murray is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jrue.  Giannis at PF is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Tatum at PF. 

[Roy H.]

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

Only in a Celtics forum.

Don't think Jrue is better than Murray either, but maybe that's just me cause I value offense over defense.

Murray is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jrue.  Giannis at PF is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Tatum at PF.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2023&player_id1=holidjr01&player_id2=murraja01

Jrue led Murray in almost every statistical category other than points, where the two were virtually tied.  Jrue is also a great defender and Murray is a lousy one.

No argument on Giannis.

[Goldstar88]

Holiday>Murray
White>KCP
Brown>MPJ
Tatum>Gordon
Porzingis<Jokic

Holiday<Lillard
White>Beasley
Brown>Middleton
Tatum=Giannis
Porzingis>Lopez

Celtics have more than enough size. Honestly, not sure how much better Lillard is than Holiday considering Dame plays little to no defense.

Only in a Celtics forum.

Don't think Jrue is better than Murray either, but maybe that's just me cause I value offense over defense.

Murray is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jrue.  Giannis at PF is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Tatum at PF.

I don’t think Giannis is a better basketball player than Tatum at this point. Especially considering how important shooting is in todays league. Bucks lost first round of the playoffs last year. 4 games to 1 with home court advantage.

Murray plays very little defense. It seems as though you like to ignore that end of the court when discussing players like Lillard and Murray. Defense matters.