OKC to have 15 1st round picks

[tazzmaniac]

What a great job. OKC has 15 picks in the next seven drafts and they could still be fighting for a playoff spot this year. They’ve got a perfect rebuild set up for them.

Presti also has our rebuild in 14-18 as a case study and what the risks are of having too many picks and young talent and veterans that want to win now

No such thing as having too many picks.  OKC should follow the Hinkie process not ours.  They need to do a full rebuild and should be focused on player development not winning the next couple years.   They need to move any vet (e.g. Gallo) that they can get a decent return on.

  Better go back to Liberty Ballers.

Can't come up with a substantive comment so make a petty comment.   

OKC is not in a position to reload.  They need to do a full rebuild unless they are satisfied with being on the fringe of the playoffs for the foreseeable future.   

Edit:  BYW, I've never been registered on LibertyBallers and I don't go to their site much since Derek Bodner and their other talent left a couple years ago. 

[JBcat]

What a great job. OKC has 15 picks in the next seven drafts and they could still be fighting for a playoff spot this year. They’ve got a perfect rebuild set up for them.

Presti also has our rebuild in 14-18 as a case study and what the risks are of having too many picks and young talent and veterans that want to win now

No such thing as having too many picks.  OKC should follow the Hinkie process not ours.  They need to do a full rebuild and should be focused on player development not winning the next couple years.   They need to move any vet (e.g. Gallo) that they can get a decent return on.

It’s easier to deconstruct than building it back up.  It’s doubtful even with all these picks they will have the talent of Harden, Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka again any they couldn’t figure out how to make that work.

[tazzmaniac]

What a great job. OKC has 15 picks in the next seven drafts and they could still be fighting for a playoff spot this year. They’ve got a perfect rebuild set up for them.

Presti also has our rebuild in 14-18 as a case study and what the risks are of having too many picks and young talent and veterans that want to win now

No such thing as having too many picks.  OKC should follow the Hinkie process not ours.  They need to do a full rebuild and should be focused on player development not winning the next couple years.   They need to move any vet (e.g. Gallo) that they can get a decent return on.

It’s easier to deconstruct than building it back up.  It’s doubtful even with all these picks they will have the talent of Harden, Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka again any they couldn’t figure out how to make that work.

Obviously which is why there is no such thing as too many picks.  In Hinkie's terms, you want to maximize your optionality to maximize your chance to get star(s).  OKC making it work would have started with having an owner willing to pay the players even if it meant paying the tax.     

[Eddie20]

What a great job. OKC has 15 picks in the next seven drafts and they could still be fighting for a playoff spot this year. They’ve got a perfect rebuild set up for them.

Presti also has our rebuild in 14-18 as a case study and what the risks are of having too many picks and young talent and veterans that want to win now

No such thing as having too many picks.  OKC should follow the Hinkie process not ours.  They need to do a full rebuild and should be focused on player development not winning the next couple years.   They need to move any vet (e.g. Gallo) that they can get a decent return on.

  Better go back to Liberty Ballers.

Can't come up with a substantive comment so make a petty comment.   

OKC is not in a position to reload.  They need to do a full rebuild unless they are satisfied with being on the fringe of the playoffs for the foreseeable future.   

Edit:  BYW, I've never been registered on LibertyBallers and I don't go to their site much since Derek Bodner and their other talent left a couple years ago.

Do you realize that no one even brought up Philly in this thread until you did? So is really that surprising that people respond in turn to your dismissive comment about the C's, while conversely praising a team that has yet to even get past the second round during their "amazing" rebuild?

Your Liberty Ballers comments are unintentionally amusing. Either you're a fan, who's reluctant to admit it, or you have WAY TOO MUCH time on your hands. I mean who even knows who the "talented bloggers" of another team are anyways?

[tazzmaniac]

What a great job. OKC has 15 picks in the next seven drafts and they could still be fighting for a playoff spot this year. They’ve got a perfect rebuild set up for them.

Presti also has our rebuild in 14-18 as a case study and what the risks are of having too many picks and young talent and veterans that want to win now

No such thing as having too many picks.  OKC should follow the Hinkie process not ours.  They need to do a full rebuild and should be focused on player development not winning the next couple years.   They need to move any vet (e.g. Gallo) that they can get a decent return on.

  Better go back to Liberty Ballers.

Can't come up with a substantive comment so make a petty comment.   

OKC is not in a position to reload.  They need to do a full rebuild unless they are satisfied with being on the fringe of the playoffs for the foreseeable future.   

Edit:  BYW, I've never been registered on LibertyBallers and I don't go to their site much since Derek Bodner and their other talent left a couple years ago.

Do you realize that no one even brought up Philly in this thread until you did? So is really that surprising that people respond in turn to your dismissive comment about the C's, while conversely praising a team that has yet to even get past the second round during their "amazing" rebuild?

Your Liberty Ballers comments are unintentionally amusing. Either you're a fan, who's reluctant to admit it, or you have WAY TOO MUCH time on your hands. I mean who even knows who the "talented bloggers" of another team are anyways?

Apparently your reading aptitude is lacking and your imagination is great.  I didn't make any dismissive comment about the Cs and I didn't call the Sixers rebuild amazing.  Seems like you're channeling your fears.  All I was saying was OKC needs to bite the bullet and do a full rebuild like the Sixers did rather than a reload type rebuild like we did.  They need to trade any vet that has value and bottom out.  They shouldn't be trying to make the playoffs just to get beat in the 1st round. 

As I've said many times before I'm an Embiid fan.  If he got traded to the Hornets, god forbid, I'd start following the Hornets.  Derek Bodner is a top notch Sixers blogger/podcaster so much so that he was hired to run the Sixers site on The Athletic when it was started a few years ago. 

[TheSundanceKid]

Just my 2 cents, but it makes absolute sense to follow the Hinkie model when it comes to returns. The only difference should be they should instill a culture of hard work in the players that are there instead of rotting their confidence

[Moranis]

probably cost a couple to move Paul (unless they take on an equally terrible or worse contract i.e. John Wall).

Doubt it will cost much to move Paul to Miami, or they just won’t do it.  Miami has bad salary to send back, so OKC will take the next couple years of James Johnson in lieu of sending picks.

James Johnson has 1 year at 15.1 million and then a player option at 15.8 million.  They can get out of the entire contract for less than 1 year of Chris Paul.  That isn't a bad contract at least comparatively. 

I think even Miami would want a pick back especially since to get to the 38 million they would gut their depth and give up tradeable assets or expiring contracts (like Dragic, Olynyk, etc.).

Dragic has no value to Miami.  They’ve been trying to dump him all summer — they thought they were going to send him to Dallas to create space for Butler, despite having no PG with which to replace him, but Dallas balked.  The issue with Miami acquiring Paul is that they’re hard-capped, so they have to send out more salary than Paul makes in order to fit Paul in, as they have to sign minimum salary players to fill the roster.

Come September I expect a deal to look something like Paul and Patrick Patterson for Dragic, Johnson, and Meyers Leonard.

He has value as an expiring contract.  And that is the point.  I think in that trade, OKC is giving up a 1st.  They get a ton of salary relief.  To save that much money, I think they have to give up a 1st.  That was the point I was making. 

I just can't see Paul getting traded anywhere without the Thunder giving up a 1st or taking on terrible contract(s) in return, even Miami.  And if the Thunder want real value back, it will cost them a couple of 1st's just like it did for Houston (and Westbrook has an even bigger contract).  Chris Paul is done as a top tier player, yet he has one of the largest contracts in the league.  To move on from him, it will cost a 1st.

Do you know what value expiring contracts have? Expiring contracts have value in that they allow you to make a trade with another team while not encumbering that team in the future.  That’s it.  Yes, OKC gets salary relief.  If they’re trying to straight salary dump, sure, they owe a pick.  But Miami seems bent on getting a big-name PG.  Why, I don’t know, maybe Riley has finally lost it.  But for whatever reason they seem to want to convert Dragic into a different player, presumably on a long-term deal.  And if they use Dragic to achieve that goal, that’s their gain.  If it happens to align with OKC’s goal of moving Paul, then that’s fine, but OKC is not sending out firsts to move CP3, not this summer.  You pay picks to dump CP3’s salary when you have something better to do with the cap space, or need the luxury tax room.  At only less than $3 million over the tax line, OKC has many cheaper methods of getting under that line.

To get cap space next summer though, they need to move Paul this year.  If they wait, then they take on salary for next year or it will cost them far more to just dump Paul next summer.  Moving Paul this year for cap relief makes a lot of sense for their long term.  to do that, it will cost them a 1st.

Why would they want cap space next summer?  To overpay for mediocre free agents?  The free agent class is going to be terrible next summer and OKC doesn't attract top free agents anyway.  If OKC is going to rebuild, it'll be through the draft and maybe trades not free agency. 

They were able to get good value for Westbrook even though many people think he's a negative value with that contract.  If they bide their time, I expect they won't have to give up a 1st to move CP3.   It won't cost them more to dump CP3 next summer.  He'll be older but it'll be a bad 2 year contract which is much more movable than a bad 3 year contract.

flexibility.  You never know what trades are available, etc.  Lots of teams just absorb lots of salary and pick up assets even if they don't sign anyone. 

[tazzmaniac]

Just my 2 cents, but it makes absolute sense to follow the Hinkie model when it comes to returns. The only difference should be they should instill a culture of hard work in the players that are there instead of rotting their confidence

Actually the Sixers did have a culture of hard work during their tank.  They measured effort in practice, etc and used that when allocating playing time.  Unlike most tanks, the Sixers were generally a solid defensive team except when Okafor was on the court.  Being a solid defensive team, especially when under talented, most certainly requires a focus on hard work. 

Whose confidence was rotted?  Certainly not Embiid, Simmons, RoCo, Saric, Jerami Grant, T. J. McConnell. Please don't say Noel.  The idiot turned down a 4yr/72M deal because he thought he was worth more.  Please don't say Okafor.  His problem is immaturity and having a game suited for 20 years ago not a lack of confidence.  Please don't say MCW.  His problem is abjectly poor shooting. 

The Sixers went from a multi-year tank team to winning 52 games in two season.  They've won 50+ games in back to back seasons for the 1st time in 30 years and they are a serious championship contender.  The fact is all the talk of the Sixers bad culture and alienating a generation of fans was nonsense.

[tazzmaniac]

probably cost a couple to move Paul (unless they take on an equally terrible or worse contract i.e. John Wall).

Doubt it will cost much to move Paul to Miami, or they just won’t do it.  Miami has bad salary to send back, so OKC will take the next couple years of James Johnson in lieu of sending picks.

James Johnson has 1 year at 15.1 million and then a player option at 15.8 million.  They can get out of the entire contract for less than 1 year of Chris Paul.  That isn't a bad contract at least comparatively. 

I think even Miami would want a pick back especially since to get to the 38 million they would gut their depth and give up tradeable assets or expiring contracts (like Dragic, Olynyk, etc.).

Dragic has no value to Miami.  They’ve been trying to dump him all summer — they thought they were going to send him to Dallas to create space for Butler, despite having no PG with which to replace him, but Dallas balked.  The issue with Miami acquiring Paul is that they’re hard-capped, so they have to send out more salary than Paul makes in order to fit Paul in, as they have to sign minimum salary players to fill the roster.

Come September I expect a deal to look something like Paul and Patrick Patterson for Dragic, Johnson, and Meyers Leonard.

He has value as an expiring contract.  And that is the point.  I think in that trade, OKC is giving up a 1st.  They get a ton of salary relief.  To save that much money, I think they have to give up a 1st.  That was the point I was making. 

I just can't see Paul getting traded anywhere without the Thunder giving up a 1st or taking on terrible contract(s) in return, even Miami.  And if the Thunder want real value back, it will cost them a couple of 1st's just like it did for Houston (and Westbrook has an even bigger contract).  Chris Paul is done as a top tier player, yet he has one of the largest contracts in the league.  To move on from him, it will cost a 1st.

Do you know what value expiring contracts have? Expiring contracts have value in that they allow you to make a trade with another team while not encumbering that team in the future.  That’s it.  Yes, OKC gets salary relief.  If they’re trying to straight salary dump, sure, they owe a pick.  But Miami seems bent on getting a big-name PG.  Why, I don’t know, maybe Riley has finally lost it.  But for whatever reason they seem to want to convert Dragic into a different player, presumably on a long-term deal.  And if they use Dragic to achieve that goal, that’s their gain.  If it happens to align with OKC’s goal of moving Paul, then that’s fine, but OKC is not sending out firsts to move CP3, not this summer.  You pay picks to dump CP3’s salary when you have something better to do with the cap space, or need the luxury tax room.  At only less than $3 million over the tax line, OKC has many cheaper methods of getting under that line.

To get cap space next summer though, they need to move Paul this year.  If they wait, then they take on salary for next year or it will cost them far more to just dump Paul next summer.  Moving Paul this year for cap relief makes a lot of sense for their long term.  to do that, it will cost them a 1st.

Why would they want cap space next summer?  To overpay for mediocre free agents?  The free agent class is going to be terrible next summer and OKC doesn't attract top free agents anyway.  If OKC is going to rebuild, it'll be through the draft and maybe trades not free agency. 

They were able to get good value for Westbrook even though many people think he's a negative value with that contract.  If they bide their time, I expect they won't have to give up a 1st to move CP3.   It won't cost them more to dump CP3 next summer.  He'll be older but it'll be a bad 2 year contract which is much more movable than a bad 3 year contract.

flexibility.  You never know what trades are available, etc.  Lots of teams just absorb lots of salary and pick up assets even if they don't sign anyone.

With a weak free agency, there isn't going to be much salary dump trading.  Tax teams did a good job this offseason of eliminating or reducing their tax burden.  Giving up a 1st to get some cap space when it is very unlikely to be beneficial to them is not a good move. 

[TheSundanceKid]

Just my 2 cents, but it makes absolute sense to follow the Hinkie model when it comes to returns. The only difference should be they should instill a culture of hard work in the players that are there instead of rotting their confidence

Actually the Sixers did have a culture of hard work during their tank.  They measured effort in practice, etc and used that when allocating playing time.  Unlike most tanks, the Sixers were generally a solid defensive team except when Okafor was on the court.  Being a solid defensive team, especially when under talented, most certainly requires a focus on hard work. 

Whose confidence was rotted?  Certainly not Embiid, Simmons, RoCo, Saric, Jerami Grant, T. J. McConnell. Please don't say Noel.  The idiot turned down a 4yr/72M deal because he thought he was worth more.  Please don't say Okafor.  His problem is immaturity and having a game suited for 20 years ago not a lack of confidence.  Please don't say MCW.  His problem is abjectly poor shooting. 

The Sixers went from a multi-year tank team to winning 52 games in two season.  They've won 50+ games in back to back seasons for the 1st time in 30 years and they are a serious championship contender.  The fact is all the talk of the Sixers bad culture and alienating a generation of fans was nonsense.

I think Brett Brown did a good job with what he had, but the front office overplayed the tank mantra a bit too much which certainly played on the minds of the players.

The first 2 years of a tank are a free pass, the players know it'll be bad but hope to see a future on the other side or build a reputation to use elsewhere. Years 3 and 4 felt like a repeat of 1 and 2 with no progress made. Yeah they had Embiid but he was injured for entire seasons!
In the mean time there was definite unrest in the squad. You say don't use Noel and Okafor as examples but they were both lottery picks from the tank that felt disillusioned. Noel is an idiot, agreed, but I don't blame him for wanting to leave the dumpster fire instead of chasing money.
The turnaround was nothing special, many teams come out of a tank that quickly, especially when you use many of your secondary assets to do so.

The method I think was right but they did a lot of wrong along the way as all teams do. A disconnect was definitely there between the FO and the team, Brown did a lot to overcome it but it was there

[wiley]

Ok. City is in great position no matter what kind of rebuild they do.  They don't have to stick to a particular concept like A.  be horrible or B. fight like heck to be the 8th seed.  Just go deal by deal and make good ones, and make the right picks.

As far as tanking, they have no non-tank players right now except Adams.  I'm sure the Philly-style rebuilders would off load him as soon as possible.  I wouldn't unless the offer is fantastic. 

He's very young still.  All by himself he won't be able to keep Ok. City from a nice pick via poor record.

Let's not forget. The Philly approach is not just to be in the lottery.  It's to be the very worst in the league...for 2 or 3 years.  Demoralizing for everyone, fans included. Not worth it for a team you can call rich at this very moment. 

[tazzmaniac]

Just my 2 cents, but it makes absolute sense to follow the Hinkie model when it comes to returns. The only difference should be they should instill a culture of hard work in the players that are there instead of rotting their confidence

Actually the Sixers did have a culture of hard work during their tank.  They measured effort in practice, etc and used that when allocating playing time.  Unlike most tanks, the Sixers were generally a solid defensive team except when Okafor was on the court.  Being a solid defensive team, especially when under talented, most certainly requires a focus on hard work. 

Whose confidence was rotted?  Certainly not Embiid, Simmons, RoCo, Saric, Jerami Grant, T. J. McConnell. Please don't say Noel.  The idiot turned down a 4yr/72M deal because he thought he was worth more.  Please don't say Okafor.  His problem is immaturity and having a game suited for 20 years ago not a lack of confidence.  Please don't say MCW.  His problem is abjectly poor shooting. 

The Sixers went from a multi-year tank team to winning 52 games in two season.  They've won 50+ games in back to back seasons for the 1st time in 30 years and they are a serious championship contender.  The fact is all the talk of the Sixers bad culture and alienating a generation of fans was nonsense.

I think Brett Brown did a good job with what he had, but the front office overplayed the tank mantra a bit too much which certainly played on the minds of the players.

The first 2 years of a tank are a free pass, the players know it'll be bad but hope to see a future on the other side or build a reputation to use elsewhere. Years 3 and 4 felt like a repeat of 1 and 2 with no progress made. Yeah they had Embiid but he was injured for entire seasons!
In the mean time there was definite unrest in the squad. You say don't use Noel and Okafor as examples but they were both lottery picks from the tank that felt disillusioned. Noel is an idiot, agreed, but I don't blame him for wanting to leave the dumpster fire instead of chasing money.
The turnaround was nothing special, many teams come out of a tank that quickly, especially when you use many of your secondary assets to do so.

The method I think was right but they did a lot of wrong along the way as all teams do. A disconnect was definitely there between the FO and the team, Brown did a lot to overcome it but it was there

There was no dumpster fire and Hinkie was only there 3 seasons.  That 4th season was with the snake, Colangelo, and was Embiid's 1st season playing.  They weren't tanking that season and had an outside shot at making the playoffs until Embiid's knee injury. 

Noel wanted out of the Sixers because he had no chance at beating out Embiid once he was healthy.  Noel wasn't disillusioned with the tanking.  If anything, it gave him too much of a big head which led to his turning down the 4yr/72M offer from the Mavs.  The Mavs got really lucky on that one.  Okafor was only there for Hinkie's last season.  So how exactly did the tanking years disillusion him? 

What secondary assets did the Sixers use to come out of the tank?  Their starting lineup in that 52 win season was Simmons, Redick, RoCo, Saric and Embiid. 

[rondofan1255]

good for OKC
hopefully they will return to Seattle someday

[nickagneta]

Get this back to OKC and off the subject of a history lesson about Philadelphia. Everyone gets it, there is more than one way to build, one being the Hinkie style. Can we all accept that and not turn this into a discussion on The Process? Thank you.

[nickagneta]

As I brought up elsewhere, some of these Houston picks could either, not convey or convey as 2nd rounders, due to protections. If from 2024-2026, Houston is bad and gets lucky in the lottery, OKC may not see any of those picks.

But that is just lookinging at the total pessimistic side. Realistically and optimistically, no matter how you cut it, things are looking good for OKC. They moved on from two stars who weren't going to be anything but a 2nd round playoff loser, at best, get a raft of down the line draft picks that could go all "Brooklyn Nets" for them and they still have quality players like Chris Paul, Danilo Gallinari, Steven Adams, Denis Schroder, Andre Roberson and Nerlens Noel.

Now, whether the team decides to sell off those players for picks and salary flexibility and go full rebuild or whether they move those players with picks to add stars and build that way, either way they are loaded with assets and poised to have a great team in the future if they do things right.