CelticsStrong
Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Patriots / Football => Topic started by: Roy H. on April 26, 2018, 10:47:36 AM
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Insiders are suggesting the Browns will take Baker Mayfield #1. They can’t be that dumb, can they?
At the very least, take Barkley #1 and Mayfield at #4.
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Considering it's the Browns, I can't confidently say anything is beyond them
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How far does Allen fall now?
Mike
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Considering it's the Browns, I can't confidently say anything is beyond them
Exactly. That organization hasn't done much in the name of rhyme & reason in the near two decades they've been back.
Nothing would surprise me there.
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The Browns have a very smart room this year. Dorsey is a very good GM, but they also added a number of highly respected minds from across the league. If they draft Mayfield, it is because they think he is the best QB and unlike years past, you have to believe they've done their homework and gotten it right.
The Jets apparently love Mayfield as well.
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
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Insiders are suggesting the Browns will take Baker Mayfield #1. They can’t be that dumb, can they?
At the very least, take Barkley #1 and Mayfield at #4.
I would be floored if it was Mayfield at 1. If they truly think he is the best available, there is no way they should take him first. You are on the money with how they should handle the top 4 picks if this is how they feel.
I think the best case scenario for the Browns is Darnold at 1, and Chubb at 4. You get to have an amazing pass rush for the next 6+ years, and a very good QB with good upside to build around with all of your new weapons.
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
Take advantage of capspace and draft capital to double your chances of hitting elite status at the most important position to anchor your franchise for 10 years; keep the better one; still trade the other for a bonanza given the market for competent QBs. Let's say the lesser one is a Jameis Winston/Mariota type; that player on a rookie contract with just 1 year of the rookie contract completed would be worth a lot.
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
Take advantage of capspace and draft capital to double your chances of hitting elite status at the most important position to anchor your franchise for 10 years; keep the better one; still trade the other for a bonanza given the market for competent QBs. Let's say the lesser one is a Jameis Winston/Mariota type; that player on a rookie contract with just 1 year of the rookie contract completed would be worth a lot.
Except the QB's value will likely drop after losing out and not playing. (not to mention neither is likely to start this year)
And the value you trade for is not going to match the value of the 4th pick this year. There will be other new shiny QB to go after at that range.
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
Take advantage of capspace and draft capital to double your chances of hitting elite status at the most important position to anchor your franchise for 10 years; keep the better one; still trade the other for a bonanza given the market for competent QBs. Let's say the lesser one is a Jameis Winston/Mariota type; that player on a rookie contract with just 1 year of the rookie contract completed would be worth a lot.
This is a team coming off a 0-16 season. They have a litany of needs outside the QB situation that need to be addressed. Think it would be extremely foolish on their part to waste two top 5 picks on quarterbacks when they have glaring other needs.
They can boost their capital even more by trading down from #4 to another QB starved franchise. Or just stand pat and take a guy like Chubb who should help you from day 1.
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
Take advantage of capspace and draft capital to double your chances of hitting elite status at the most important position to anchor your franchise for 10 years; keep the better one; still trade the other for a bonanza given the market for competent QBs. Let's say the lesser one is a Jameis Winston/Mariota type; that player on a rookie contract with just 1 year of the rookie contract completed would be worth a lot.
Except the QB's value will likely drop after losing out and not playing. (not to mention neither is likely to start this year)
And the value you trade for is not going to match the value of the 4th pick this year. There will be other new shiny QB to go after at that range.
They won't do it, because every team thinks they are the best at evaluating QBs. But it is an interesting though. The QB position has a far outsized importance in the NFL. A franchise QB can be there 8-12 years, which is, what, 3-4 roster turnovers in the NFL? Outside QB, roster rebuilds can happen.
So I'd think that a highly rated prospect who has 1 year of bench learning is still a valuable asset. Not #4 pick valuable. But still valuable, maybe a 2nd and 3rd rounder. And you double your chances of getting a great great QB for 10 years.
So, would you trade #1 and #4 in 2018 for, say, Rookie Andrew Luck and a 2nd and 3rd rounder in 2019?
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
Take advantage of capspace and draft capital to double your chances of hitting elite status at the most important position to anchor your franchise for 10 years; keep the better one; still trade the other for a bonanza given the market for competent QBs. Let's say the lesser one is a Jameis Winston/Mariota type; that player on a rookie contract with just 1 year of the rookie contract completed would be worth a lot.
It is my understanding that given the quality of this QB class, they would be lucky if the BETTER of their two prospects hit those levels of young QB. As you pointed out in your later post, teams are willing to pay a stupid price to move up and take their shiny toy. They don't want somebody else's toy. Garropolo (more value than the worse of the 2 QBs) fetched an early 2nd rounder. Foles showed he can win a super bowl game with an elite team around him. He is more talented right now than either QB taken (not long term obviously,) yet the rumors are teams wont give up a 1st for him. So your asset (4th pick) would depreciate almost 30 spots best case scenario.
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Take mayfield and rosen, then trade one next year!
Why when a player like Barkley or Chubbs will be sitting there?
Take advantage of capspace and draft capital to double your chances of hitting elite status at the most important position to anchor your franchise for 10 years; keep the better one; still trade the other for a bonanza given the market for competent QBs. Let's say the lesser one is a Jameis Winston/Mariota type; that player on a rookie contract with just 1 year of the rookie contract completed would be worth a lot.
It is my understanding that given the quality of this QB class, they would be lucky if the BETTER of their two prospects hit those levels of young QB. As you pointed out in your later post, teams are willing to pay a stupid price to move up and take their shiny toy.
That's the beauty of the draft. An established, above-average quarter back is simply an above-average quarterback, but a high draft pick? UNLIMITED POTENTIAL! So much more fun to dream (and rip off other teams by trading down).
Mike
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Seeing as how the Browns have the top pick in the 2nd round and the third pick in the 2nd and the last pick in the 2nd it would be pretty hilarious if they used the top two picks on Barkley (best RB in a generation) and Chubb and paired Chubb with their pick from last year.....then potentially traded up for a Lamar Jackson or just drafted a left over developmental QB like Mason Rudolph and said "See ya at the next draft" and just targeted the next year to draft a QB.
None of the top 3 QBs impress me. If you forced me to take one I'd take Sam Darnold. Maybe if Josh Allen really showed me phenomenal workouts and had phenomenal interviews I'd consider him.
I strongly dislike Rosen.
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Welp, Browns went with Mayfield. Lol
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Did that really just happen?
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I'm surprised.
Thought Browns take Barkley #1, then a QB (like Mayfield) #4...
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Browns being Browns. They have the 1st and 4th picks, and somehow pass on the best player, the best QB, and the best defensive player.
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What on earth are the Browns doing?
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I'm surprised.
Thought Browns take Barkley #1, then a QB (like Mayfield) #4...
they must have really liked Mayfield and didn't want him to slip
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What on earth are the Browns doing?
Doubling down on the Johnny Manzeil experiment.
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I feel like the Browns make anyone who comes to their organization awful at their job. Its shocking that Joe Thomas was able to escape that voodoo.
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Browns being Browns. They have the 1st and 4th picks, and somehow pass on the best player, the best QB, and the best defensive player.
And now the Broncos get Chubb to pair with Miller...
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I like josh Allen. Has a tom Brady - esque type of game.
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Two new young QBs to the East -- we'll be seeing them for years to come.
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Browns being Browns. They have the 1st and 4th picks, and somehow pass on the best player, the best QB, and the best defensive player.
And now the Broncos get Chubb to pair with Miller...
Eugh
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Happy with the Barkley pick at #2 for the Giants. I would have preferred Chubb, but I'm just glad they didn't draft one of these overrated QB's.
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Josh Rosen looks like a bored turtle. There. I said it.
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Forgot that this was today.
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If he's there, the Pats should take Lamar Jackson. The potential value is just too good to pass in my opinion.
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Pats pick lining up to be pretty close to the end of the game. About 15-20 minutes from now.
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Jackson is there. Can't see Pats taking QB at 23. BB always surprises though.
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Isaiah Wynn, Tackle, Georgia. I know nothing. Anyone know anything about him?
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Isaiah Wynn, Tackle, Georgia. I know nothing. Anyone know anything about him?
Tough dude with a mean streak. It was a reach if you just look at rankings but I think a few years down the road Pats fans are going to be very happy with the pick.
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Isaiah Wynn, Tackle, Georgia. I know nothing. Anyone know anything about him?
I did grad school at UGA while Wynn was there. He was a dominant offensive lineman in college, and our run game was stellar.
https://www.dawgnation.com/football/2018-nfl-draft-isaiah-wynn-georgia-offensive-lineman (https://www.dawgnation.com/football/2018-nfl-draft-isaiah-wynn-georgia-offensive-lineman)
Edit: He had also had serious labrum problems. Obviously that sucks, but it reminds me of the good old days too. :)
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When the patriots draft a QB, The patriots tend to draft pocket passers with big arms to learn from Brady.
I wonder if they'll target Luke Falk
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Edit: He had also had serious labrum problems. Obviously that sucks, but it reminds me of the good old days too. :)
Wahoo! The Boston area needs an Isaiah with a torn labrum! Karma is restored.
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Edit: He had also had serious labrum problems. Obviously that sucks, but it reminds me of the good old days too. :)
Wahoo! The Boston area needs an Isaiah with a torn labrum! Karma is restored.
Lol. Absolutely.
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Pats going to pick next at 31. Jackson is on the board. Do they trade? Pick the free-falling QB? Other?
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Pats going to pick next at 31. Jackson is on the board. Do they trade? Pick the free-falling QB? Other?
I hope they just take Jackson now. It'd be nice to snag Brady's successor so he can learn from him before retirement.
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They drafted Sony PlayStation (RB) from georgia
I'm convinced belichick is drafting the entire Georgia team this year
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Sony!!!! I love this pick. This kid is tremendous. Hate to say it, but pre- injury Chubb was an elite SEC running back and talked about in the same breath as Todd Gurley, and Michel was better than him last year.
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They drafted Sony PlayStation (RB) from georgia
I'm convinced belichick is drafting the entire Georgia team this year
Hah. Hope Lorenzo Carter is next.
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If he's there, the Pats should take Lamar Jackson. The potential value is just too good to pass in my opinion.
And they passed, twice. I guess they really didn't like him.
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My Ravens with a quality 1st round.
Cowboys in need of a TE as it looks like Witten is going to become the Monday Night Football Analyst for ESPN.
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I really hope the Patriots are able to get Josh Jackson, Oliver, or Carlton Davis with their first 2nd rounder. I'd even be able to be talked into Harold Landry or Lorenzo Carter.
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They drafted Sony PlayStation (RB) from georgia
I'm convinced belichick is drafting the entire Georgia team this year
Hah. Hope Lorenzo Carter is next.
I'd actually like that.
Carter terrorized Mike McGlinchey who was a top 10 pick at tackle.
If we go Nick Chubb we'd get to keep three roommates together which would be funny.
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Pats traded their 3rd round pick (#95) to Niners for OT Trent Brown and pick #143.
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Hoping Pats pick up that Richmond quarterback. Probably gone by end of 2nd round.
Can also see them signing the Princeton QB a UFA, or late round pick, for development.
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Pats traded their 3rd round pick (#95) to Niners for OT Trent Brown and pick #143.
Coming off an injury he showed up to camp at 400 pounds.
He's injury prone and has motivation questions but he's one of the best pass-blocking tackles in the entire league.
Von Miller waxes poetic about his abilities.
He struggled in the run game in SF but there's some optimism that his struggles were more scheme driven and he'd do better in NE.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
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I don't understand why any team that's been at the bottom of the standings for a while doesn't just focus on adding the best talent available to their offensive and defensive lines and then try to find some steals at the skill positions later in the draft, undrafted, or among veteran free agents.
Drafting a QB or RB high in the draft just seems like a crapshoot. If you've already got a supremely talented team on both sides of the ball and you're just lacking a centerpiece of your offense, fine. But if you're a team that lacks a foundation, I don't get it.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
They needed to address the QB situation. They had to. Just going with Mayfield there at #1 was head-scratching. He certainly would've been there at #4. I just think they botched the situation they had in front of them (having #1 & #4) and came nowhere near maximizing the value they had there. Ward over Chubb was eyeopening, also.
Both of these kids may pan out in the end. My initial reaction, though, is that they flubbed it again. Who knows, though? The crap really is a crapshoot.
Who would've thought the Jets would've fumbled their way into Darnold, though?
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
They needed to address the QB situation. They had to. Just going with Mayfield there at #1 was head-scratching. He certainly would've been there at #4. I just think they botched the situation they had in front of them (having #1 & #4) and came nowhere near maximizing the value they had there. Ward over Chubb was eyeopening, also.
Both of these kids may pan out in the end. My initial reaction, though, is that they flubbed it again. Who knows, though? The crap really is a crapshoot.
Who would've thought the Jets would've fumbled their way into Darnold, though?
It is possible that if the Browns would have taken Barkley that the Giants would have either traded the pick or taken Darnold, thus leaving Mayfield for the Jets.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
They needed to address the QB situation. They had to. Just going with Mayfield there at #1 was head-scratching. He certainly would've been there at #4. I just think they botched the situation they had in front of them (having #1 & #4) and came nowhere near maximizing the value they had there. Ward over Chubb was eyeopening, also.
Both of these kids may pan out in the end. My initial reaction, though, is that they flubbed it again. Who knows, though? The crap really is a crapshoot.
Who would've thought the Jets would've fumbled their way into Darnold, though?
It is possible that if the Browns would have taken Barkley that the Giants would have either traded the pick or taken Darnold, thus leaving Mayfield for the Jets.
If the unlikely event that happened, the Browns still would have had the best player in the draft and another really good QB prospect.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
They needed to address the QB situation. They had to. Just going with Mayfield there at #1 was head-scratching. He certainly would've been there at #4. I just think they botched the situation they had in front of them (having #1 & #4) and came nowhere near maximizing the value they had there. Ward over Chubb was eyeopening, also.
Both of these kids may pan out in the end. My initial reaction, though, is that they flubbed it again. Who knows, though? The crap really is a crapshoot.
Who would've thought the Jets would've fumbled their way into Darnold, though?
It is possible that if the Browns would have taken Barkley that the Giants would have either traded the pick or taken Darnold, thus leaving Mayfield for the Jets.
If the unlikely event that happened, the Browns still would have had the best player in the draft and another really good QB prospect.
Sure, but if they felt Mayfield was the best QB in the draft, they wouldn't have gotten their man. And frankly I can totally see the rationale for a guy like Mayfield. The accuracy, the high level of success (including big games), the control of the football, etc. Really the only knock on him is his size, and two of the 5ish best QB's in the world right now are of a similar size (Brees and Wilson), so I don't see why that would stop you from taking him.
Ward is the pick that doesn't make a lot of sense. You should never be drafting for need (outside of QB) when you are drafting in the top 10. Always take the best player available (again outside of QB), and while Ward was the best DB in the draft, Chubb seems pretty clearly to be a better prospect (and frankly a better prospect from a more valuable position).
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I don't understand why any team that's been at the bottom of the standings for a while doesn't just focus on adding the best talent available to their offensive and defensive lines and then try to find some steals at the skill positions later in the draft, undrafted, or among veteran free agents.
Drafting a QB or RB high in the draft just seems like a crapshoot. If you've already got a supremely talented team on both sides of the ball and you're just lacking a centerpiece of your offense, fine. But if you're a team that lacks a foundation, I don't get it.
Almost all starting QBs are taken in the first round. I understand why teams focus on the position. The Browns taking this particular QB is the issue, not that they spent a high pick on the position.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
They needed to address the QB situation. They had to. Just going with Mayfield there at #1 was head-scratching. He certainly would've been there at #4. I just think they botched the situation they had in front of them (having #1 & #4) and came nowhere near maximizing the value they had there. Ward over Chubb was eyeopening, also.
Both of these kids may pan out in the end. My initial reaction, though, is that they flubbed it again. Who knows, though? The crap really is a crapshoot.
Who would've thought the Jets would've fumbled their way into Darnold, though?
It is possible that if the Browns would have taken Barkley that the Giants would have either traded the pick or taken Darnold, thus leaving Mayfield for the Jets.
If the unlikely event that happened, the Browns still would have had the best player in the draft and another really good QB prospect.
Sure, but if they felt Mayfield was the best QB in the draft, they wouldn't have gotten their man. And frankly I can totally see the rationale for a guy like Mayfield. The accuracy, the high level of success (including big games), the control of the football, etc. Really the only knock on him is his size, and two of the 5ish best QB's in the world right now are of a similar size (Brees and Wilson), so I don't see why that would stop you from taking him.
Ward is the pick that doesn't make a lot of sense. You should never be drafting for need (outside of QB) when you are drafting in the top 10. Always take the best player available (again outside of QB), and while Ward was the best DB in the draft, Chubb seems pretty clearly to be a better prospect (and frankly a better prospect from a more valuable position).
Agree on Ward.
Disagree on Mayfield. In addition to the size, there’s his attitude, questions about running a pro-style, drop back offense, average arm strength and footwork, etc.
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Patriots drafted a qb
Etling from LSU
https://youtu.be/fVd6Vsu2gsY
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Shaquem Griffin is everyone's favorite player now.
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Can't say I like this draft at all. And if people knew how good I was about football predictions on here they would be worried. This is a vadifferent draft overall for the Pats
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Can't say I like this draft at all. And if people knew how good I was about football predictions on here they would be worried. This is a vadifferent draft overall for the Pats
Next year’s draft should be killer, though, and they used some of this year’s draft capital on current pros who can play.
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Can't say I like this draft at all. And if people knew how good I was about football predictions on here they would be worried. This is a vadifferent draft overall for the Pats
Next year’s draft should be killer, though, and they used some of this year’s draft capital on current pros who can play.
And I predicted the exact trade away picks. They were actually great trade downs/outs. My issue is who they selected. Other than Sony and Bentley I felt all others were big reaches. Im pretty good at evaluating football prospects as betting and fantasy makes me $ through out the year
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Overall, I'd say I'm pretty happy with how the draft went for the Giants. I'd give them an A- overall.
They got the top prospect in the draft, avoided the mistake of drafting one of the wildly overrated QB prospects, possibly the best value pick in the entire draft in Hernandez (OL) in the 2nd round, a starter level OLB and DT in the 3rd, and a solid value pick in Lauletta (QB) in the 4th rd.
I didn't love their later round picks, but considering we're talking about guys who likely won't make the team anyways, it's only a minor quibble.
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Another first round in the books, another year of wondering what the Browns were thinking.
Ritual of spring.
DEN got Chubb gift-wrapped to them. With him & Miller, that's potentially devastating 1-2 punch.
I don't know a lot of college football in general, or this last season in particular, but it seemed to me that Chubb was the most impactful player available. Can't believe Denver got him.
And yeah, I can't believe the Browns once again spent their top pick on a QB, because that's gone so well for them in the past.
They needed to address the QB situation. They had to. Just going with Mayfield there at #1 was head-scratching. He certainly would've been there at #4. I just think they botched the situation they had in front of them (having #1 & #4) and came nowhere near maximizing the value they had there. Ward over Chubb was eyeopening, also.
Both of these kids may pan out in the end. My initial reaction, though, is that they flubbed it again. Who knows, though? The crap really is a crapshoot.
Who would've thought the Jets would've fumbled their way into Darnold, though?
It is possible that if the Browns would have taken Barkley that the Giants would have either traded the pick or taken Darnold, thus leaving Mayfield for the Jets.
If the unlikely event that happened, the Browns still would have had the best player in the draft and another really good QB prospect.
Sure, but if they felt Mayfield was the best QB in the draft, they wouldn't have gotten their man. And frankly I can totally see the rationale for a guy like Mayfield. The accuracy, the high level of success (including big games), the control of the football, etc. Really the only knock on him is his size, and two of the 5ish best QB's in the world right now are of a similar size (Brees and Wilson), so I don't see why that would stop you from taking him.
Ward is the pick that doesn't make a lot of sense. You should never be drafting for need (outside of QB) when you are drafting in the top 10. Always take the best player available (again outside of QB), and while Ward was the best DB in the draft, Chubb seems pretty clearly to be a better prospect (and frankly a better prospect from a more valuable position).
I'd like to formally apologize to Denzel Ward. He has been an absolute monster for the Browns. Mayfield has been pretty good as well. It appears the Browns may have gotten it right afterall.
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Overall, I'd say I'm pretty happy with how the draft went for the Giants. I'd give them an A- overall.
They got the top prospect in the draft, avoided the mistake of drafting one of the wildly overrated QB prospects, possibly the best value pick in the entire draft in Hernandez (OL) in the 2nd round, a starter level OLB and DT in the 3rd, and a solid value pick in Lauletta (QB) in the 4th rd.
I didn't love their later round picks, but considering we're talking about guys who likely won't make the team anyways, it's only a minor quibble.
after the embarrassment last night, are you still all in on not taking one of the QB's, especially having now seen Darnold and Allen look pretty good thus far.